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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Gathering for Worship
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
Mr Cheesy's comments on this MW report raised an issue which I thought warranted a thread of its own.
quote:
How would you describe the pre-service atmosphere?
A nightmare. It was like a social affair with everyone, including the clergy, loudly engaging others in chatter. I gave my best evil eye stare to two older gentlemen and their wives about five feet across from me, but to no avail – they continued to talk very loudly and distracted me from engaging in any real pre-worship prayer. Even the clergy could be heard from the back from the nave making small-talk with congregants.
We have talked in the past in our Presbyterian congregation about the needs of people arriving for worship on Sunday morning. Some hope for quiet to compose themselves prayerfully, while others find joy in greeting their fellow members. And it seems there is no way that joyful greeting and quiet meditation can co-exist.
Maybe our culture has changed over the years. We've turned into a large and loving family who share greetings with much laughter, settle down for notices, and are then called into a period of silence to prepare ourselves for worship. And so it goes.
Have others wrestled with this dichotomy? And how has it resolved itself?
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
Some hope for quiet to compose themselves prayerfully, while others find joy in greeting their fellow members. And it seems there is no way that joyful greeting and quiet meditation can co-exist.
Hey, yeah, there is. It's called (1) do it in the sanctuary; (2) do it in the parish hall or outside.
[ 28. June 2015, 03:08: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
Some hope for quiet to compose themselves prayerfully, while others find joy in greeting their fellow members. And it seems there is no way that joyful greeting and quiet meditation can co-exist.
Hey, yeah, there is. It's called (1) do it in the sanctuary; (2) do it in the parish hall or outside.
Depends on the layout of your buildings. Our parish hall is a separate building round the back; for others it is sometimes in the next street! In our church, you come straight off the car park into the sanctuary. Yes, you can chat outside - but only if folk wait there before going inside, and only if the weather is fine.
FWIW I can't imagine the Christians in first-century Jerusalem or Corinth quietly reflecting before the service, I'd guess that their culture was much noisier.
One practical point: insisting on (complete) quiet for a reasonably prolonged period can be very pressurising on parents with young children.
In our church I welcome people to worship, then say that we will have a few moments of quiet to collect our thoughts. Seems to satisfy most folk.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
In our case, no parish hall, and when we did have one it was 5 minutes walk away, and not a place for pre- or post-service gathering. Also there is no 'audio separation' between the entrance space and the main worship space so the welcome of arrivals/ visitors is audible to all - especially if either they or the welcomer is hard of hearing. We do try for a few moments of quiet just before the service begins, but I'm beginning to wonder if we need to do it at the beginning of the service. That said, some who want 'quiet' at the beginning if the service seem to achieve it at a personal level, even when others are greeting/ talking.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
Have others wrestled with this dichotomy? And how has it resolved itself?
Yes. In many (Presbyterian) churches in my experience, the prelude is the signal to move from visiting to quiet. In our place people visit (though usually not too loudly), then chimes are rung and people get quiet, welcome is given and announcements are made, then we sit in quiet—and in prayer for those who wish to do so—during the prelude.
What I describe is, of course, in some ways a denominational ethos sort of thing. Something like it is common in Presbyterian churches, where many would view the pre-worship conversation as preparation for worship—a sort of re-forming the community. In Episcopal churches in these parts, on the other hand, any but the briefest and most hushed conversations prior to worship are rare indeed, and they are clearly inhibited by the sight of people kneeling to pray (and the sound of kneelers being lowered) as soon as people take their seats.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Silence is rarely kept before services in churches I attend, even latterly in a Cathedral (which is a lot noisier before it begins than I was expecting). I have a thick skin and if I want to be silent, I will be silent no matter what is going on around me. As long as people are being respectful and leaving alone people who want to be left alone, I don't really see that absolute silence can be enforced or is necessary.
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arse
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
While I generally think silence (or sitting quietly listening to organ music) is great for both the beginning and end of a service, I do have a niggle of concern about how it must feel to be a newcomer, thinking you are being ignored by everyone.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
Despite being a pompous anglo-catholic who would like everyone to be reciting Quicunque Vult in Latin in silence before the Mass (and drinking champagne and discussing rugby after) I know I live in a world where that no longer conveys the encounter with the resurrected Lord of which Eucharistic liturgy is a vehicle.
Therefore I'd love a pre-Introit buzz. In reality at my patch there's more likely to be frosty stares and the occasional snore from someone who fell asleep when Victoria ceased to be Queen.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
While I generally think silence (or sitting quietly listening to organ music) is great for both the beginning and end of a service, I do have a niggle of concern about how it must feel to be a newcomer, thinking you are being ignored by everyone.
Or being ignored by everyone around you chatting happily to the people they know and not to you?
Arguments both ways but following my usual rule when I can't make my mind up, I say 'I agree with Zappa'.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
What I describe is, of course, in some ways a denominational ethos sort of thing. Something like it is common in Presbyterian churches, where many would view the pre-worship conversation as preparation for worship—a sort of re-forming the community. In Episcopal churches in these parts, on the other hand, any but the briefest and most hushed conversations prior to worship are rare indeed.
In turn, this may reflect a view of worship as a "communal" viz-a-viz an "individual" activity. In a day when individualism seems to be the order of the day, perhaps we should encourage the communal aspects.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
Well, personally I prefer adhering to the old saw : "Before the service, talk to God; during the service, let God speak to you; after the service, talk to each other." And this is what we try to promote in my parish.
Having said that, of course it won't be the same way everywhere. Some church communities are going to be chatty before the service, and visitors will just have to deal. When that's clearly part of the community's practice, it seems a bit presumptuous for a visitor to give socializers the stink-eye; if even the clergy are doing it, then the campaign for quiet is going to be a lost cause.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
it is not so much the pre service chat that disturbs me, but the inane gab fest that occurs at the passing of the peace. This has become a real bunfight with people rushing around trying to greet everybody, asking after their holiday or their Auntie Maud and generally upsetting my worship. This can often stretch more than 10 minutes and the organist in desperation will start to play the next hymn intro to call the troops back. Where has our sense of decorum and good manners gone?
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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cosmic dance
Shipmate
# 14025
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Posted
This pretty much describes our church. We really like each other....
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"No method, no teacher, no guru..." Van Morrison.
Posts: 233 | From: godzone | Registered: Aug 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
it is not so much the pre service chat that disturbs me, but the inane gab fest that occurs at the passing of the peace. This has become a real bunfight with people rushing around trying to greet everybody, asking after their holiday or their Auntie Maud and generally upsetting my worship. This can often stretch more than 10 minutes and the organist in desperation will start to play the next hymn intro to call the troops back. Where has our sense of decorum and good manners gone?
Earwig O'Agen
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
The vicar tries to get round the whole congregation during the sharing of the peace, while the organist tries to start, and therefore end, the next hymn as soon as possible. Sometimes he wins, and the vicar has to run back to the altar, trying to look all the time as if he is not rushing at all. The choir, who face the other way to all the congregation, see everything....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
it is not so much the pre service chat that disturbs me, but the inane gab fest that occurs at the passing of the peace.
I quite agree. Some people seem to delight in seeing how many "scalps" they can notch up.
I also get annoyed by the fact that most people say "Peace be with you" - it's the Peace of the Lord.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I also get annoyed by the fact that most people say "Peace be with you" - it's the Peace of the Lord.
Why should that be the phrasing?
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
A. Because that's what the book says, certainly in the Anglican context and probably in others.
2. Because we are not just hoping for some kind of vague peaceful feeling to descend on the person we are addressing: we are in a sense praying that God's peace will come to them, whatever their troubles may be. This is in the context of a Christian worship service, after all.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
In the current Roman Rite, the people's exchange is ad libitum. Their exchange with the priest goes "The peace of the Lord be with you all" // "and with your Spirit." Then the deacon may introduce the people's exchange with the words "let us offer one another the sign of peace." I don't take that to prescribe that they re-use precisely the words from the priest's greeting.
Biblically, "peace be with you" is a very common greeting. It seems appropriate for use during the exchange of the sign of peace to me.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
A. Because that's what the book says, certainly in the Anglican context and probably in others.
2. Because we are not just hoping for some kind of vague peaceful feeling to descend on the person we are addressing: we are in a sense praying that God's peace will come to them, whatever their troubles may be. This is in the context of a Christian worship service, after all.
The book prescribes what the person leading worship should say. Nothing is said about what others should then say or do, it simply says quote:
All may share a sign of peace
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Some churches have a tradition of silence in the church before worship. Others have a tradition of chat. Talkers gonna talk. Not much you can do other than ignore them.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
IME the noise levels before a service are affected by lighting levels:- church with no stained glass = normal level of conversation and general hubbub
- church with partial stained glass and reasonable lighting = some conversational noise but not too loud
- full stained glass and/or low lighting level = hushed tones and whispers
The only church I know of with plain glass that manages to be pretty quiet before a service has - greeters in the porch, not inside the church
- prominent notices that noise before the service is not welcome
- back-up notice about noise in the pews
- laminated cards in each pew prominently headed "Prayers before the Service"
The exceptions are weddings and funerals: for the latter its not such a problem, for the former there are always at least 2 regular churchgoers on duty who walk the aisles and generally act as 'hushers'!
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
…I gave my best evil eye stare…
Wot!?
A guest and a reporter presuming to censure liturgical practice to one's hosts?!
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
I suppose some church folk would say that church isn't a set-apart experience but something that infuses all of life, and that silence, while important sometimes, isn't essential as a way of marking out worship time as separate from secular time. Some churches actually expect private church prayers to contribute to and be a part of the general hubbub before and/or during church worship.
If you're particular about these things you just have to find a church whose practices and expectations match yours.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
I remember a church in my hometown that had foot-tall neon letters off to the front side. The letters spelled 'Silence'. I imagine that when they were flipped on, the congregation acted accordingly.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
I look at the gathering for worship much like an extended family coming together after being apart for the week. I have no problem with people greeting each other. Often times we greet newcomers as well. I am always on the lookout for people who may not likely understand the service and will offer to sit with them or ask someone to assist them.
We especially like to greet new people at the end of the service in the narthex. A Little trick I learned: when you meet a new person in the Narthex make it a point to introduce them to at least three other people. Visitors tell us that this gesture makes them feel very welcomed.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I suppose some church folk would say that church isn't a set-apart experience but something that infuses all of life, and that silence, while important sometimes, isn't essential as a way of marking out worship time as separate from secular time......
I see what you mean. But I think that silence, somewhere, sometime, is essential, and there aren't many places that your average C21 urban westerner can find it, regularly, except in church.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
You can sometimes hear it broadcast on Radio 3 ... admittedly, not for great lengths of time.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I suppose some church folk would say that church isn't a set-apart experience but something that infuses all of life, and that silence, while important sometimes, isn't essential as a way of marking out worship time as separate from secular time......
I see what you mean. But I think that silence, somewhere, sometime, is essential, and there aren't many places that your average C21 urban westerner can find it, regularly, except in church.
I think if you really want silence, it's best to be alone. Getting together with a bunch of people, especially a group of people who belong to a very wordy religious culture like ours, isn't the best idea.
I do appreciate opportunities for private prayer in church, but this doesn't necessarily require silence. Calming music can help. Silence, though, seems to be difficult for churches to achieve. Even the clergy are nervous about keeping things silent for more than half a minute. Words, words, words - that's what we do.
It occurred to me the other day that there should be more training and provision at grassroots level for Christian meditation. Most providers are coming from a Buddhist or secular perspective, but many Christians would be a bit put off by that, since they connect quiet spirituality with their own faith tradition, rather than being something entirely separate.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
You can sometimes hear it broadcast on Radio 3 ... admittedly, not for great lengths of time.
Yes- have they had John Cage as composer of the week, do you know? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I think if you really want silence, it's best to be alone. Getting together with a bunch of people, especially a group of people who belong to a very wordy religious culture like ours, isn't the best idea.
I do appreciate opportunities for private prayer in church, but this doesn't necessarily require silence. Calming music can help. Silence, though, seems to be difficult for churches to achieve. Even the clergy are nervous about keeping things silent for more than half a minute. Words, words, words - that's what we do.
Which, in my mind, is precisely why we need more silence in church. It can be uncomfortable, especially for those not used to it, but corporate silence can be very powerful. We lose the ability to worship together in silence at our peril; it's something the church should encourage rather than avoid.
We have silence at least twice during our typical service—after the corporate confession for individual confession and during the prayers of the people. Granted neither time is particularly long, maybe a minute each, though they have gradually gotten longer. Sometimes (I wish more regularly), there is silence after the sermon.
It's a start.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
I had missed this thread, but the vicar and some leaders at our church have made a stab at encouraging silence during the organ prelude. (We are a talkative bunch. ) The only problem seems to be that the vicar and the leaders are themselves repeat offenders among the chatterers. I am usually mildly amused by this but I do get a bit annoyed when suddenly they remember silence is important and shush others.
Me, I tend to remain silent in the ten minutes pre-liturgy, but I don't try to be a silence enforcer. Stern looks and shushes spoil my contemplation more than noise.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
When I go up to the cathedral, I am often amazed that the worst chatterers during the organ voluntary are the Cathedral staff (including musicians) themselves. It doesn't bother me, as such, but it is interesting to notice.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I agree about silence in worship. IME some clergy are scared of a silence, fearing a congregation will think something has gone wrong or the celebrant has lost his place (or lost the plot!).
When I arrived at my current place it was the norm for the organist to 'fill-in' between the gospel and the sermon (while the preacher went to the pulpit), at the end of the Offertory if necessary, and before a choir item at communion. I put a stop to this with the blessing of the PP, but visiting clergy seem to find it strange.
On the other hand, I allow 15 seconds at the Peace and then we begin the hymn; if nothing else, it has stopped members of the choir wandering around the church like 3rd rate politicians looking for someone with whom to shake hands.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Goodness, what sort of choir do you have? Every choir I've ever sang with has superglue applied to the choir stalls so that choristers do not move an inch from their allotted places at any point during the service (it wears off as the opening notes of the concluding Voluntary are played). Choristers wandering around during the Peace? Whatever next?!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
FWIW I can't imagine the Christians in first-century Jerusalem or Corinth quietly reflecting before the service, I'd guess that their culture was much noisier.
I seriously doubt that.
The NT doesn’t describe early Christian worship, but in Revelation it describes in some detail what early Christians imagined it was like. The four and twenty elders were not discussing the latest football match before casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea.
St Paul is highly critical of a clique of well off Corinthian Christians who eat together before less well off Christians can join them.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
Well, personally I prefer adhering to the old saw : "Before the service, talk to God; during the service, let God speak to you; after the service, talk to each other." And this is what we try to promote in my parish.
I've encountered:
quote:
Enter this door
as if the floor
within were gold;
and every wall
of jewels, all
of wealth untold;
as if a choir,
in robes of fire,
were singing here.
Nor shout
nor rush
but hush -
For God is here.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
I've encountered:
quote:
Enter this door
as if the floor
within were gold;
and every wall
of jewels, all
of wealth untold;
as if a choir,
in robes of fire,
were singing here.
Nor shout
nor rush
but hush -
For God is here.
Is there anywhere God isn't?
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
There isn't, but there are sure places where we can be more aware of God than others.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
FWIW I can't imagine the Christians in first-century Jerusalem or Corinth quietly reflecting before the service, I'd guess that their culture was much noisier.
I seriously doubt that.
The NT doesn’t describe early Christian worship, but in Revelation it describes in some detail what early Christians imagined it was like. The four and twenty elders were not discussing the latest football match before casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea.
St Paul is highly critical of a clique of well off Corinthian Christians who eat together before less well off Christians can join them.
The average church service doesn't strike me as something that's modelled on this passage in Revelation. Church elders falling on the floor isn't how things are done, for a start!
And people who arrive at church in a chatty mood aren't necessarily part of a clique. One might ask whether a visitor who enters a church where everyone is studiously avoiding contact and conversation feels more welcome than a visitor in a church where people are chatting. It depends on a range of factors, I imagine.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
There isn't, but there are sure places where we can be more aware of God than others.
Indeed, but the coincidence of such places with churches has not, IME, been of questionable statistical significance.
No, that's too smarmy by half. I'm not one for particularly being aware of God. Not enough to be sure he exists, for example. But where there have been those moments where I've had a glimpse of what God might mean if he exists, it's been as often not in a church as in one. And the moments I've been most convinced the whole thing is a load of supersitious hookum have been as much in churches as outside of them.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
There isn't, but there are sure places where we can be more aware of God than others.
Without a doubt, and I hope church is normally one of those places. I guess I just get a little leery of expressing this in ways that suggest God is particularly present in a church* rather than inviting us to be particularly aware of that presence in church.
* I do realize that the understanding may be different for churches that reserve the sacrament in the church with an understanding that Christ is truly present in the reserved sacrament.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Robin
Shipmate
# 71
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Church elders falling on the floor isn't how things are done, for a start!
They do (priest and altar party) at the start of the Good Friday liturgy, in some places. But it's a once a year occurrence, and a bit of a shock if you've not seen it before.
Robin
Posts: 263 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
But are they allowed to have a chat beforehand, or is everyone very quiet and solemn??
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Yes and yes.The solemnity of the day must affect your mood, surely?
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
On reflection, yes, Good Friday services are more solemn than normal ones. That's logical.
Those Christians who find Easter somewhat awkward (and there must be many, when you consider that Christmas is a more popular festival, despite being less important) probably stay away. This may reduce the sociability factor yet further.
[ 12. July 2015, 23:12: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Now you've got my interest. Why would Easter be awkward for people? Or did you mean Good Friday specifically, and not Easter Sunday?
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Good Friday in particular, but although Easter Sunday is obviously more popular than Good Friday neither can compete with Christmas in terms of general interest.
It may be different in other countries, though.
[ 12. July 2015, 23:56: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
There isn't, but there are sure places where we can be more aware of God than others.
Our (transitional) minister usually starts her service with something like this "During the week, we have met God in the garden... down by the harbour... in the supermarket... but today we are gathered together to meet God as a family."
GG
[ 13. July 2015, 10:01: Message edited by: Galloping Granny ]
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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