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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: head covering
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
quote:
quote:
The young man who was their leader brought the kids into the church for Communion; he was wearing a baseball cap, having been working out in the sun. As he went up the aisle he passed his mother -- who reached over and removed his cap as he passed.
And rightly so! What's the matter with kids today? They ain't taught no manners! ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
In this case I'd say he just forgot--as his mother obviously knew the rule, and expected him to follow it. Surely she taught him better at home.
He was probably in his late 20s, married, and had kids of his own. I think he just forgot that he was wearing it -- and the congregation was amused by what happened.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
Churches that celebrate the traditional Latin Mass (and I mean churches in communion with Rome and their local bishop) typically feature most, though not all, women with covered heads. My parish, which is staffed by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter and celebrates the old rite exclusively, is such a parish. There is a minority of women who never cover their heads. But most do, as the custom is well-established, and newbies usually end up doing so if they plan to stick around. Mantillas of various sorts are what most wear, but a few wear chapel caps or other types of hats.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Curiously, when I visited St Basil's in Red Square in the early 80s- by which time it have been deconsecrated for over 50 years- we chaps were told by one of the women attendants, in no uncertain terms, to remove our hats. The girls with us were not.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
we chaps were told by one of the women attendants, in no uncertain terms, to remove our hats. The girls with us were not.
A gentleman always removes his hat indoors, whether in consecrated space or not. A lady removes hers only in her own home (or, it must be added nowadays, her place of business).
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
The wearing of hats has died out (thankfully).
There were theological reasons for it but it did produce a kind of oneupmanship and/or criticism.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The wearing of hats has died out (thankfully).
There were theological reasons for it but it did produce a kind of oneupmanship and/or criticism.
Surely not dead. The hat is a very useful accessory:
- It keeps the head dry when it rains without having to schlep an umbrella.
- It keeps the head warm in winter.
- Especially here in Arizona, it protects one's head from the sun, which is otherwise likely to irritate the scalp, leading to pre-cancerous growths or worse.
- It mitigates even the worst bad hair day.
- It hides bald spots.
- It gives one something to tut-tut over when not worn according to the dictates of etiquette.
Etc.
[ 25. August 2016, 21:23: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
In the days when women did wear hats, I have never heard anyone suggest it was anything to do with submission or anything else more complicated. It was 'because St Paul said so'.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
In the days when women did wear hats, I have never heard anyone suggest it was anything to do with submission.
They certainly did in the Brethren and parts of the New Church movement, many of whose leaders came from the Brethren.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
In the days when women did wear hats, I have never heard anyone suggest it was anything to do with submission or anything else more complicated. It was 'because St Paul said so'.
Maybe sometimes. But in my experience, it had less to do with St. Paul and more to do with the idea that a lady never went out without a hat. As my mother would have said, it simply wasn't done.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
Thanks, Josephine. That's very informative.
It's very hard to find information on the internet about headcovering that doesn't focus on "because it shows my obedience to male authority!". It's nice to hear some other reasons.
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
Many years ago before I married into a very strict but not Exclusive Brethren meeting, my fiance asked me to go to his grandmother who was ill to get Sunday lunch ready.Sunday lunch trumped the breaking of bread. Please note sarcasm. I went back to collect him and arrived after the meeting had ended. I was almost pushed out the door by him as I had no covering on my head, not even a scarf. I did not see the point at all. People were milling around talking.There was a drawer of scarves in case someone female, young or old, turned up without a hat or scarf. That meeting, now much diminished in size, still exists with same provisos on covering. I remember many women outdoing each other in the amount paid for their hats.
Women from Exclusive or Londoner meetings down here still wear black headbands which were supposedly a sign of submission.
[ 26. August 2016, 04:03: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The wearing of hats has died out (thankfully).
There were theological reasons for it but it did produce a kind of oneupmanship and/or criticism.
Surely not dead. The hat is a very useful accessory:
- It keeps the head dry when it rains without having to schlep an umbrella.
- It keeps the head warm in winter.
- Especially here in Arizona, it protects one's head from the sun, which is otherwise likely to irritate the scalp, leading to pre-cancerous growths or worse.
- It mitigates even the worst bad hair day.
- It hides bald spots.
- It gives one something to tut-tut over when not worn according to the dictates of etiquette.
Etc.
Sorry! I meant wearing one to church as a matter of course.
Mrs M has worn one from time to time and looks gorgeous!!
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
Mousethief and Josephine - thank you. Very interesting.
Ditto.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Tobias
Shipmate
# 18613
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
Churches that celebrate the traditional Latin Mass (and I mean churches in communion with Rome and their local bishop) typically feature most, though not all, women with covered heads... There is a minority of women who never cover their heads. But most do, as the custom is well-established, and newbies usually end up doing so if they plan to stick around.
I attended the Latin Mass for part of my childhood and adolescence, and remember, one of the first times we went, a woman hurriedly producing a mantilla for my mother to wear, and saying in an anxious whisper, "You had better put this on, or someone might tell you off". We later realised that she was referring to a particular Someone, her husband, a man of definite views and brusque manner. On the other hand, I never heard of a priest bringing the matter up with anyone, nor was there any official-sounding statement on the matter (in a sermon, for instance, or in a notice in the bulletin).
If the reason for head-covering was discussed, there would probably be a reference to its being commanded by St Paul, but the emphasis was normally on its being a part of Catholic tradition, one of many such customs unceremoniously abandoned after the Second Vatican Council.
Do any shipmates know or remember how that change took place? Was there some sort of announcement that the rule (and it was essentially a rule) had been relaxed? Or did women simply start coming to church without hats, in such numbers that it became impossible to insist on it?
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit.
Posts: 269 | From: Terra Australis Incognita | Registered: Jul 2016
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Marama
Shipmate
# 330
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Posted
When I walk to church in the summer I usually wear a (sun)hat. But I usually remove it at the door - in the UCA hats are not normally worn. But no-one would worry if a women kept her hat on.
In the Pacific women in Cook Islands and Tahiti normally wear hats to church - and they are from the LMS (Congregational) tradition. Elsewhere women are normally bareheaded - which suggests something interesting culturally going on - and I'm not sure exactly what it is.
Posts: 910 | From: Canberra | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tobias:
Do any shipmates know or remember how that change took place? Was there some sort of announcement that the rule (and it was essentially a rule) had been relaxed? Or did women simply start coming to church without hats, in such numbers that it became impossible to insist on it?
I can't answer that. But certainly, in 1950s Britain, hats were almost universally worn by both men and women, on the journey to work, at the beach, when going shopping etc. Indeed, there was a definite belief that you would die of a chill if you went out hatless! There was a definite change in the popular culture of hat-wearing in the 1960s. ISTM that the main remnant of it today is hats for Weddings, Race Meetings and Royal garden parties (also men's boaters at Henley Regatta, and school caps at posh schools).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
i can think of two women who wear, or wore, hats recently at our church. One was simply an elegantly dressed (but not over-dressed) person who liked to wear a hat. The other had been having chemo treatment.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Don't you think the hat wearing Canadians in the photograph might be more to do with the ambient temperature?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Don't you think the hat wearing Canadians in the photograph might be more to do with the ambient temperature?
Could be. It gets muckle cold in parts of North America even today and yet hat wearing is not nearly so plenary as shown here.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Don't you think the hat wearing Canadians in the photograph might be more to do with the ambient temperature?
In the picture, certainly.
But I remember my grandfather gardening in mid-July wearing his hat in the mid 50s, and men would normally wear hats even in mid-summer at that time.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
This May 1960 FA Cup Final crowd indicates a much higher degree of hat wearing than is common today. (It was clearly shirt sleeves weather.)
There are several crowd scenes on this Daily Mail (sorry) page from which it was taken. Broadly speaking, men's hat wearing seems to have been more common in the past.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
Episcopal Church USA wore some type of head covering,until late 60's. I was told it was to show respect to God. You wore your good clothes as well, not your school clothes. When I was young it always seemed a special thing to do. I liked it.
When I go into the church to pray alone now I sometimes wear a vail. It puts me into the mood of prayer. It is showing respect to our Lord. Holy Ground. If alone I also may take off my shoes. I think of it as preparing myself for worship.
I sometimes wear a hat to church on Sunday morning simply because I happen to enjoy a hat and do not have an occasion to wear one very often.
[ 26. August 2016, 18:41: Message edited by: Graven Image ]
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
This May 1960 FA Cup Final crowd indicates a much higher degree of hat wearing than is common today. (It was clearly shirt sleeves weather.)
There are several crowd scenes on this Daily Mail (sorry) page from which it was taken. Broadly speaking, men's hat wearing seems to have been more common in the past.
Bloody JFK's fault, I reckon. And did for the waistcoat too.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Up until the early 70s I would never go into a church without my head covered -- even if it was not for a service. I was surprised how quickly that custom ended.
(Episcopal Church in the U.S.)
Several things happened close in time to each other in the 60s to reduce the previously almost universal wearing of hats when out doors (men, women sometimes also indoors).
Bouffant hair styles started showing up in the late 50s, but a hat squished the hair down and you looked terrible after taking off the hat. Being socially required to wear a hat in church but also to look good hatless at lunch after church was impossibly frustrating. I remember buying a ribbon on a comb to be the token required "hat" for church to reduce damage to the hairdo. (Before bouffant, hair dos were petty much flat - pincurls, braids, close cropped.)
Also the general 60s cultural rebellion against the rigidly rule-bound 50s culture. The 60s revolution was very much about challenging the old norms. Hats (as well as oppression of blacks and women via such things as unequal opportunity or pay) were another pointless social norm
Also cars got smaller, man or woman you couldn't wear a hat inside a VW bug, older styles of car had lots more headroom. More compact streamlined cars made hats impractical.
In my Episcopal church, a "pillar of the church" named Dorothy sat down front. One day she showed up hatless. The next week 80% of women did not wear a hat to church. The revolution was eagerly waiting to happen.
(I think also Vatican 2 quietly eliminated the hats for women requirement in the late 60s; that would influence people as part of the general looking around to see what others are doing.)
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
I can remember Mum taking my brother and i shopping for a "hat for church" in Wellington, Aotearoa-New Zealand in 1965.
We found a lovely one in cafe-au-lait straw with a matching ribbon and a toning flower. We told Mum she was so beautiful. I'll never forget that day.
I think maybe she had one more hat after that one for suburban Presbyterian services.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Baker
Shipmate
# 18458
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Posted
Here in Topeka, Kansas, USA, I know of only one congregation that absolutely requires their women to cover the head in church. That's the notorious Westboro Baptist Church, they of the hateful picketing practise.
I grew up Lutheran and women stopped wearing hats before women wearing pants outfits appeared.
I'm now Episcopal and from pictures I can see they wore hats into the late sixties, but it's not done now.
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Ad astra per aspera
Posts: 108 | From: Tottering-on-the-Brink | Registered: Aug 2015
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
At 0.57 in this clip the camera looks down on the congregation from the balcony of a church on Lewis and at 2.17 the camera pans along from behind. Most of the women are wearing hats. These are the sort of hats women wore to church in winter when I was a girl. Summer hats were more brightly coloured.
(Watch the whole clip for truly glorious psalm singing.)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Beautiful singing! Beautiful faces!
The precentor's accent when speaking English sounded more Irish than Scots to me. Is that typical or isn't he a local?
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
That's a proper Western Isles accent.
It is beautiful, isn't it?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
North East Quire, you'll probably tell me I'm talking nonsense but in my experience first language Gaelic speakers have a very distinctive accent when speaking Scottish English, even when they are fully fluent in it - in a way that is much more noticeable than with first language Welsh speakers.
The other things that I find curious is that most of the Gaelic tunes are theoretically the same tunes as appear in the psalms section of the Church Hymnary in English, but sound nothing like their English versions.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I agree, Enoch, there's no disguising a Western Isles accent. I don't know any native Welsh speakers, so can't compare.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Some are identifiable, not so much from their accents as from their general way of speaking English, as first-language Welsh speakers, but most aren't. But then I imagine that first-langauge Welsh speaking has a wider geographical and perhaps class spread than Gaelic, so a wider range of accents in both Welsh and English.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
Two mileposts I recall:
1. I was in high school (so about 1955) when our small Methodist church choir jumped 'up the candle' enough to acquire robes. (They were an abominable burgundy color.) There was much discussion if the women should take off their hats -- they decided to do so. (Canterbury caps and beanies were not considered, IIRC.)
2. I was in a large liturgical supply store in Chicago (this would have been around 1960). A group of women, the choir of a rather 'posh' African American church was shopping for new headgear. The sales person, a bit at a loss, said 'Well this is what we have, gesturing toward the shelves. The ladies were delighted and pounced immediately on -- wait for it -- violet silk birettas with amaranth piping and pompons. i'm not making that up, I swear!
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I knew a first-language Welsh speaker from a remote village who spoke English with a Mancunian accent, because her teacher was from Manchester. But she didn't speak English at all until about 10 or 11 years old.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
We have a friend who's a first-language Welsh Londoner, whose parents came from Gwaun-cae-Gurwen. So he speaks English with a Middlesex accent and Welsh with a Swansea Valley one.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
I was part of the house church/restoration movement of the 1970's and 80's. WE were taught to wear head covering- for a long time a head scarf but when Dianna made ladies hats fashionable many of us wore hats. I can remember long discourses on Paul's views about head covering. then sometime around the end of the 80's early 90's there was a shift as it was decided that such teaching was counter productive when it came to mission. I went back to the C of E about that time where hat wearing had long since disappeared but over the years have often wondered about the issue and had arguments with myself over whether if I truly believed it was God's word I should still be wearing a head covering. I do wonder what my congregations would make of it if I presided at communion wearing a hat ( or head scarf)
[ 29. August 2016, 21:26: Message edited by: Jante ]
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
I do remember when all female members of the choir wore little skull caps, and when the women guides at the National Cathedral in Washington D.C. would all wear special hats. I have not been to the Cathedral in years, but something tells me they have ditched the head gear.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
I've never been part of a church where women habitually covered their heads. I do, however, recall a conversation with a group of Muslim students of mine about head covering as a gesture of respect. I was teaching them in a school which had a mosque attached, and entrance was via the main prayer room. As I had to walk there from the train station I often wore a long coat and wide-brimmed hat to keep the rain off. Good Anglican that I am, I'd been raised to always remove my hate before entering church, and automatically applied that same rule for the prayer room. The Islamic tradition, of course, is that heads are covered in the prayer room, and the students consequently asked why I removed my hat at the door and were intrigued by the contrasting traditions.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Graven Image:
I do remember when all female members of the choir wore little skull caps, and when the women guides at the National Cathedral in Washington D.C. would all wear special hats. I have not been to the Cathedral in years, but something tells me they have ditched the head gear.
A zucchetto does nothing for a woman's hairdo, but is excellent for those with male pattern baldness. In 50s and 60s Sydney churches of MOTR and above, it was common for men and women choristers to wear blue cassocks with Canterbury caps.
Upthread, someone noted the value of hats in warding off the sun's rays, especially in summer - it could have been Miss Amanda. Of course a toque is not much use for that. The Cancer Council strongly encourages hat wearing in summer, and we notice that many in the congregation at St Sanity, both men and women, follow that advice.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
I'd been raised to always remove my hate before entering church,
Excellent advice.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Our church Women's Group had a visiting Muslim speaker, talking about life as a Muslim in Scotland. We were discussing her choice of everyday clothing (long sleeved tops and trousers, plus hijab) and she said something about Christians having no tradition of female head covering. So we showed her 1 Cor 11 and she was stunned. She couldn't comprehend how anyone could criticise the hijab when we have similar rules in the Bible.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
French Prime Minister Manuel Vals, who has been defending his anti-hijab campaign by appealing to the bare-breasted figure of Liberté, is in trouble for utterly failing to notice that in addition to bare boobs, she also sports a Phrygian cap.
Cultural blindness is a funny thing.
[ETA the BBC has just this minute supplied a link to the story!
[ 30. August 2016, 11:36: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
Hat wearing by women is still VERY common among predominantly African-American churches in the US--particularly in the south. I'm not sure if that's the case elsewhere in the US, or if it's died out.
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
The Black British Pentecostal congregations used to insist on hat-wearing for the women, but that rule seems to have been relaxed in many places now (although I think it's still retained in Apostolic/United Pentecostal congregations).
IME older black Christian women are more likely than any other women, even older white women, to wear hats to church in British congregations.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Hat wearing by women is still VERY common among predominantly African-American churches in the US--particularly in the south. I'm not sure if that's the case elsewhere in the US, or if it's died out.
The woman's hat is often referred to as her crown. Has more to do with celebrating uniqueness and worth and joy in God (in contrast to mental depersonalizing weekday jobs) than "submission." article about crowns
But also, I'd forgotten that even in the 50s the Episcopalian choir ladies did not wear hats, looking back that seems startling in a rigidly "women must wear a hat in church" culture. But the choir was exclusively male in the 40s, probably when it integrated the choir just continued with the long standing choir costume of robes and bare head. I can't remember if we wore a hat to church and took it off to put on choir robes and put the hat on again to go to coffee. I'm going to guess yes, because being hatless just wasn't done. (And I still have a collection of gloves.)
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Our church Women's Group had a visiting Muslim speaker, talking about life as a Muslim in Scotland. We were discussing her choice of everyday clothing (long sleeved tops and trousers, plus hijab) and she said something about Christians having no tradition of female head covering. So we showed her 1 Cor 11 and she was stunned. She couldn't comprehend how anyone could criticise the hijab when we have similar rules in the Bible.
Well, that's about a particular attitude to Scripture, isn't it? Most of the things that I dislike about the supposedly religiously-ordained customs of some Muslims are have their parallels in a kind of Christianity which I equally dislike. Not that I'd prevent people from dressing in almost any way they wish (I have been known to object to shops displaying T shirts with obscenities on them, but probably wouldn't have the guts to challenge someone who was wearing one, unless perhaps they turned up to church in it when I'd find them an alternative or a cover!). But there are ways in which I would rather some people, including some Muslims, didn't dress. That's my business, not theirs, though.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Vidi Aquam
Apprentice
# 18433
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Posted
Some women in Anglican churches (in the USA) wear chapel veils, but the majority do not. I have never seen a chapel veil in the mainline Episcopal Church.
In the tiny Old Roman Catholic chapel I attended in Boston, women sometimes wore the chapel veil on their heads, and sometimes just on their shoulders.
Chapel veils (as well as long skirts or dresses) are required for women attended the Traditional Latin Mass (at independent chapels or CMRI, SSPX, etc.). Often times there is someone standing at the door handing out veils if a woman shows up without one on. If not then there would usually be a sign on the wall and/or in the bulletin urging women to wear head coverings and skirts/dresses.
I have a collection of chapel veils that I lend to my lady friends that are going to Mass with me. I also ask that they wear long dresses/skirts. All have obliged except one. Even though she wore skirts at other times, she insisted on wearing blue jeans and being bare headed at Mass. When we walked in the door the usher handed her a veil and asked her to put it on. She refused and walked out. I went into the chapel and we met up later after Mass.
It looks really nice to see people dressed out of the ordinary at Mass. It sets it apart from the day to day world (as does the Latin). It's like you're entering into a spiritual realm. It really sets the mood.
Someone once described chapel veils as women's liturgical vestments. I thought that was a great way to put it.
I don't like getting dressed up in tie, button down shirt, slacks, and dress shoes, but that is what is expected of me, so I do it.
Posts: 33 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Jun 2015
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Hooker's Trick
Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
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Posted
Last spring I took my god-children to London and of course we paid a visit to the Tower. The Yeoman Warder conducting us about made a point, most insistently, that men remove their hats upon entering the chapel. And when one visitor did not, the tour was interrupted until the offender uncovered.
The ladies of the Trick pew indulge me (stop me moaning) by wearing hats on Easter Day but do so at no other time.
I always assumed hat-wearing in church declined proportionally to the cessation of hat-wearing in secular culture.
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
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