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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: head covering
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
Sheer curiosity:
Do many churches have a standard of women covering their hair?
Does anyone here disagree with their church - either by thinking they should cover their hair when it's not the norm, or by thinking they shouldn't have to cover their hair when everyone else seems okay with it?
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Up until the early 70s I would never go into a church without my head covered -- even if it was not for a service. I was surprised how quickly that custom ended.
(Episcopal Church in the U.S.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
My experience is much the same as Pigwidgeon's, always a head covering in the Episcopal Church. I hated this as a child and a teen (and had a mother who loved to wear hats, so it was a source of much Sunday morning grumbling). I do not know how the practice ended, and I would be interested to know.
I believe it may still be the practice in eastern Orthodox churches ... perhaps our shippies from that tradition will weigh in.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
My Lutheran grandmother always wore some sort of headcovering. But my Methodist grandmother stopped in the 70's. The scandal at the congregation I grew up in was when my mother started wearing a pantsuit to church.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I'll send Josephine here, if she's willing. She is the family expert on this because she's (a) a woman, and (b) a head-coverer by choice. She can tell you about the Orthodox practices (there is no one single practice), and her own beliefs and behaviors. (I stay out of it.)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
Used to be a huge issue in the Open Brethren, but has pretty much evaporated except in a few small, tight assemblies.
My very conservative mother-in-law abandoned the practice in her 80s after observing it since childhood.
A popular illustration of its disproportionate importance was the story of the two Brethren worthies overhead discussing Rome:
"Say what you will about Catholics, at least they're sound [ie Nicene/Chalcedonian] on the person of the Lord".
"Yes,and they make their women cover their heads".
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
The Brethren assembly I grew up in kept a handy store of scarves in a cupboard at the front door should any hapless head-uncovered woman appear.
It's still practised by some women round here, notably in neo-pentecostal circles, but appears to me to be a "holiness statement" more than anything else. Some people turn up covered in what is basically a tent, with great ostentation, which to me seems to run entirely counter to what one might have thought Paul to be on about.
The place I see it the most is in our gypsy churches (accompanied by a mandatory skirt as opposed to trousers), but the practice seems to be dying out among the younger women with no obvious complaint from the leadership.
Finally, I'm wondering whether our own church has just lost a recent regular visitor who is an ex-JW of 40 years' standing, because women in our congregation pray without their heads covered.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
In June 1976 I was part of a mission team that spent three weeks in a Pentecostal church in Fraserburgh, Scotland. This was not long after the "Taylorite Brethren" scandal and quite a few former Brethren (and "Sisteren") had left and joined the Pentecostals. This, and tradition, led to a high proportion of folk who believed that heads should be covered in worship, though it was never mandated by the church leadership.
I have never seen so many hats - mostly wide-brimmed "summery" ones - in a church! They seemed femininely ubiquitous and, indeed, competitive. When preaching one looked down upon a sea of assorted millinery.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955
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Posted
It did have a renaissance in the House Church movement for a while, around the 1980s. There was one on our street where headscarves were the uniform for Sunday meetings.
No idea if they 1) still exist 2) still do this.
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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)
Posts: 297 | From: Whitley Bay | Registered: Feb 2012
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
My impression is that it gradually died out sometime in the sixties in the CofE but lasted until the seventies or later in the Brethren and among some free-lance groups. I can remember girls about my age who felt they had to put on a scarf before praying in a home group, sometime around 1970.
I have to admit that I find it disconcerting to see young men wearing assorted caps in church these days. I don't really approve but remain silent, and think 'don't they know they aren't supposed to' or 'why doesn't somebody tell them'.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Can vouch for it in Closed Brethren right up to 1990s when there was one locally. I would see one woman in particular on a Sunday with her headscarf on. My memory says that the singular was appropriate. My Grandmother right into the 1980s would have always worn a hat to church. She attended Baptist at the time.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
It was still common to see women in hats when I was growing up in the 1970s and 80s. They were as Baptist Trainfan describes, wide brimmed, often trimmed with artificial flowers, all sorts of lovely pastel and bright colours and quite ostentatious. Many Free Church members walked to church, believing that driving broke the Sabbath, so there could be quite a parade of gorgeously hatted women in town.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
My mother has promised to wear a mantilla exactly once in her life — at my wedding.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
@NEQ: Perhaps they were an Aberdeenshire/Buchan speciality?
Re. driving to church: I don't recall that as a problem in "The Broch", however at that time there was but one Sunday bus service in the town, ending up in front of the Parish Church at about 10.30 am and leaving at about 12.15 pm. I wonder if it waited if the sermon went on too long (perhaps it did, if the driver attended the service!)? Now there doesn't appear to be a Sunday town service there at all, but I doubt if it is because of a rise in strict Sabbatarianism!
[ 25. August 2016, 12:49: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
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Posted
I grew up in the Open Brethren and was expected to wear a head-covering in the services.
As a teenager, I loathed having to cover my head during worship, it felt so restrictive and, yes, sexist. (I was discovering feminism at that age. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) )
Never covered my head since.
I have no issue, zero, zip, nada, with Orthodox women, Catholic women, Jewish women, Muslim women, charismatic women, et al, choosing to cover their heads during worship. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I would have issues with men ordering women to do it. Personal religious liberty then becomes legalism.
Having said that, I had to cover my head when visiting a mosque and a Sikh temple, because them's the rules, and I took no umbrage at this. Things are a bit different when you're a guest.
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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I have to admit that I find it disconcerting to see young men wearing assorted caps in church these days. I don't really approve but remain silent, and think 'don't they know they aren't supposed to' or 'why doesn't somebody tell them'.
At a church I used to attend, the youth group was holding a car wash in the parking lot. The young man who was their leader brought the kids into the church for Communion; he was wearing a baseball cap, having been working out in the sun. As he went up the aisle he passed his mother -- who reached over and removed his cap as he passed.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
The Mennonites have a long history of head coverings for women. However, there are many denominations of Mennonites, and quite a few of them are moving away from coverings. The one my church belong to, Mennonite Church USA, doesn't have the practice.
When I was doing anthropological research among the Amish, I met quite a few people from various sub-groups in the Anabaptist-soaked area where I was doing fieldwork. Each sub-group had a different style of covering.
Most Quakers laid down plain dress a long time ago, although you can still see it among people in one of the four Quaker denominations in the US. Have never seen a covering at my Meeting or among Friends in general, but I know that the practice still exists. Even the one Friend I met who felt led to plain dress did not cover her head.
sabine
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I have to admit that I find it disconcerting to see young men wearing assorted caps in church these days. I don't really approve but remain silent, and think 'don't they know they aren't supposed to' or 'why doesn't somebody tell them'.
At a church I used to attend, the youth group was holding a car wash in the parking lot. The young man who was their leader brought the kids into the church for Communion; he was wearing a baseball cap, having been working out in the sun. As he went up the aisle he passed his mother -- who reached over and removed his cap as he passed.
It's a fairly common anxiety dream for me that I'm in church (when the dream begins) with a hat on and hasten to remove it. On the other hand, one of the fringe enjoyments I get from going to shul is the chance to rock headgear. I have an impressive fedora with a feather that my sister gave me, and on one occasion I wore a pink bandanna to the amusement of the kids present.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I have to admit that I find it disconcerting to see young men wearing assorted caps in church these days. . . .
At a church I used to attend, the youth group was holding a car wash in the parking lot. The young man who was their leader brought the kids into the church for Communion; he was wearing a baseball cap, having been working out in the sun. As he went up the aisle he passed his mother -- who reached over and removed his cap as he passed.
And rightly so! What's the matter with kids today? They ain't taught no manners! ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
If you visit an Orthodox church with roots in the Russian traditions, most or all of the women will have their head covered, usually with scarves. If you visit an Orthodox church with roots in the Greek and Arabic traditions, most or all of the women will not have their head covered. Some will have a scarf draped around their neck or shoulders, so that they can cover their head when they approach the chalice to take communion.
Some Orthodox women keep a scarf at their prayer corner at home, so they can cover when they pray at home.
A few Orthodox women cover their heads just about all the time, with scarves wrapped and tied in a variety of ways.
And, yes, with people being people, if you're at a Greek parish, and you cover in the Russian fashion, there might be people who let you know they don't approve. And if you're at a Russian parish with a bare head, there might be people who let you know they don't approve, and someone might even hand you a scarf from a basket out in the narthex.
But the general rule in Orthodoxy is that you mind your own business when it comes to other people's piety. And in most parishes from whatever tradition, in the US and Canada, you'll see some women with their heads covered and some not.
If you ask Orthodox women why they cover, the answer will (almost) never be as a sign of submission to their husband. (If you do hear that, the woman saying that is a convert from a Western tradition, guaranteed.) Rather, you'll hear them say that they cover because that's what Orthodox women have always done; it's what our foremothers in the faith did, so we do it to honor them; because the Theotokos is always covered in her icons, and we want to emulate her; because St. Paul said we should; as a way to reduce distractions during worship and prayer; for the sake of the angels.
Some will point out that the headcovering, according to St. Paul, and according to the practice of the church, doesn't represent submission or humility. Instead, it is a sign of honor or authority or power. The chalice and paten on the altar are veiled; women are likewise veiled. Bishops and monastics and certain high-ranking priests are permitted to wear headcoverings in the church, as are all women.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
We saw until the 1960s or early 1970s that immigrants from Orthodox lands (Galicia - western Ukraine, parts of Poland, Romania) generally wore head coverings when out of the house, whether they were religiously Ukrainian Catholic or Orthodox. Worn all the time. Babushka is what we call it here, and it also refers to the woman wearing it. It was sort of thought of as a Orthodox or Doukobor hijab when I was young. Not so common now.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
If you visit an Orthodox church with roots in the Russian traditions, most or all of the women will have their head covered, usually with scarves. If you visit an Orthodox church with roots in the Greek and Arabic traditions, most or all of the women will not have their head covered. Some will have a scarf draped around their neck or shoulders, so that they can cover their head when they approach the chalice to take communion.
We have a Ghanaian parishioner who always wears a shawl which she draws up as she enters the chancel (or when we use the basement Lady Chapel, as we sometimes do on summer weekdays, when she passes through the iconostasis) for communion.
[ 25. August 2016, 17:21: Message edited by: Knopwood ]
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Mousethief and Josephine - thank you. Very interesting.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
I would never dictate to anyone whether they should cover in church or not.
In some of our parishes it is the custom for women to cover their heads. In others, it's all but unknown. I have one parishioner who does, and who apparently has since she was young; she grew up in what I think must have been the sole Anglo-Catholic parish in the Diocese of Virginia, whose rector was a Bahamian transplant.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
quote:
The young man who was their leader brought the kids into the church for Communion; he was wearing a baseball cap, having been working out in the sun. As he went up the aisle he passed his mother -- who reached over and removed his cap as he passed.
And rightly so! What's the matter with kids today? They ain't taught no manners!
In this case I'd say he just forgot--as his mother obviously knew the rule, and expected him to follow it. Surely she taught him better at home.
[ 25. August 2016, 18:38: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Cathscats
Shipmate
# 17827
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Posted
I will never forget the time when my beadle, a retired lieutenant colonel, ordered a bunch of supposedly posh young men (Old Etonians, if I remember rightly, certainly those who ought to have known) coming into church for a wedding to remove their headgear. They had been coming up the path in what you might call flown and levitous mood, and with that one injunction, he sobered them up for a fairly respectful wedding.
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"...damp hands and theological doubts - the two always seem to go together..." (O. Douglas, "The Setons")
Posts: 176 | From: Central Highlands | Registered: Sep 2013
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
quote:
quote:
The young man who was their leader brought the kids into the church for Communion; he was wearing a baseball cap, having been working out in the sun. As he went up the aisle he passed his mother -- who reached over and removed his cap as he passed.
And rightly so! What's the matter with kids today? They ain't taught no manners!
In this case I'd say he just forgot--as his mother obviously knew the rule, and expected him to follow it. Surely she taught him better at home.
He was probably in his late 20s, married, and had kids of his own. I think he just forgot that he was wearing it -- and the congregation was amused by what happened.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
Churches that celebrate the traditional Latin Mass (and I mean churches in communion with Rome and their local bishop) typically feature most, though not all, women with covered heads. My parish, which is staffed by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter and celebrates the old rite exclusively, is such a parish. There is a minority of women who never cover their heads. But most do, as the custom is well-established, and newbies usually end up doing so if they plan to stick around. Mantillas of various sorts are what most wear, but a few wear chapel caps or other types of hats.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Curiously, when I visited St Basil's in Red Square in the early 80s- by which time it have been deconsecrated for over 50 years- we chaps were told by one of the women attendants, in no uncertain terms, to remove our hats. The girls with us were not.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
we chaps were told by one of the women attendants, in no uncertain terms, to remove our hats. The girls with us were not.
A gentleman always removes his hat indoors, whether in consecrated space or not. A lady removes hers only in her own home (or, it must be added nowadays, her place of business).
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
The wearing of hats has died out (thankfully).
There were theological reasons for it but it did produce a kind of oneupmanship and/or criticism.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The wearing of hats has died out (thankfully).
There were theological reasons for it but it did produce a kind of oneupmanship and/or criticism.
Surely not dead. The hat is a very useful accessory:
- It keeps the head dry when it rains without having to schlep an umbrella.
- It keeps the head warm in winter.
- Especially here in Arizona, it protects one's head from the sun, which is otherwise likely to irritate the scalp, leading to pre-cancerous growths or worse.
- It mitigates even the worst bad hair day.
- It hides bald spots.
- It gives one something to tut-tut over when not worn according to the dictates of etiquette.
Etc.
[ 25. August 2016, 21:23: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
In the days when women did wear hats, I have never heard anyone suggest it was anything to do with submission or anything else more complicated. It was 'because St Paul said so'.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
In the days when women did wear hats, I have never heard anyone suggest it was anything to do with submission.
They certainly did in the Brethren and parts of the New Church movement, many of whose leaders came from the Brethren.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
In the days when women did wear hats, I have never heard anyone suggest it was anything to do with submission or anything else more complicated. It was 'because St Paul said so'.
Maybe sometimes. But in my experience, it had less to do with St. Paul and more to do with the idea that a lady never went out without a hat. As my mother would have said, it simply wasn't done.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
Thanks, Josephine. That's very informative.
It's very hard to find information on the internet about headcovering that doesn't focus on "because it shows my obedience to male authority!". It's nice to hear some other reasons.
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
Many years ago before I married into a very strict but not Exclusive Brethren meeting, my fiance asked me to go to his grandmother who was ill to get Sunday lunch ready.Sunday lunch trumped the breaking of bread. Please note sarcasm. I went back to collect him and arrived after the meeting had ended. I was almost pushed out the door by him as I had no covering on my head, not even a scarf. I did not see the point at all. People were milling around talking.There was a drawer of scarves in case someone female, young or old, turned up without a hat or scarf. That meeting, now much diminished in size, still exists with same provisos on covering. I remember many women outdoing each other in the amount paid for their hats.
Women from Exclusive or Londoner meetings down here still wear black headbands which were supposedly a sign of submission.
[ 26. August 2016, 04:03: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The wearing of hats has died out (thankfully).
There were theological reasons for it but it did produce a kind of oneupmanship and/or criticism.
Surely not dead. The hat is a very useful accessory:
- It keeps the head dry when it rains without having to schlep an umbrella.
- It keeps the head warm in winter.
- Especially here in Arizona, it protects one's head from the sun, which is otherwise likely to irritate the scalp, leading to pre-cancerous growths or worse.
- It mitigates even the worst bad hair day.
- It hides bald spots.
- It gives one something to tut-tut over when not worn according to the dictates of etiquette.
Etc.
Sorry! I meant wearing one to church as a matter of course.
Mrs M has worn one from time to time and looks gorgeous!!
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
Mousethief and Josephine - thank you. Very interesting.
Ditto.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Tobias
Shipmate
# 18613
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
Churches that celebrate the traditional Latin Mass (and I mean churches in communion with Rome and their local bishop) typically feature most, though not all, women with covered heads... There is a minority of women who never cover their heads. But most do, as the custom is well-established, and newbies usually end up doing so if they plan to stick around.
I attended the Latin Mass for part of my childhood and adolescence, and remember, one of the first times we went, a woman hurriedly producing a mantilla for my mother to wear, and saying in an anxious whisper, "You had better put this on, or someone might tell you off". We later realised that she was referring to a particular Someone, her husband, a man of definite views and brusque manner. On the other hand, I never heard of a priest bringing the matter up with anyone, nor was there any official-sounding statement on the matter (in a sermon, for instance, or in a notice in the bulletin).
If the reason for head-covering was discussed, there would probably be a reference to its being commanded by St Paul, but the emphasis was normally on its being a part of Catholic tradition, one of many such customs unceremoniously abandoned after the Second Vatican Council.
Do any shipmates know or remember how that change took place? Was there some sort of announcement that the rule (and it was essentially a rule) had been relaxed? Or did women simply start coming to church without hats, in such numbers that it became impossible to insist on it?
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit.
Posts: 269 | From: Terra Australis Incognita | Registered: Jul 2016
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Marama
Shipmate
# 330
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Posted
When I walk to church in the summer I usually wear a (sun)hat. But I usually remove it at the door - in the UCA hats are not normally worn. But no-one would worry if a women kept her hat on.
In the Pacific women in Cook Islands and Tahiti normally wear hats to church - and they are from the LMS (Congregational) tradition. Elsewhere women are normally bareheaded - which suggests something interesting culturally going on - and I'm not sure exactly what it is.
Posts: 910 | From: Canberra | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tobias:
Do any shipmates know or remember how that change took place? Was there some sort of announcement that the rule (and it was essentially a rule) had been relaxed? Or did women simply start coming to church without hats, in such numbers that it became impossible to insist on it?
I can't answer that. But certainly, in 1950s Britain, hats were almost universally worn by both men and women, on the journey to work, at the beach, when going shopping etc. Indeed, there was a definite belief that you would die of a chill if you went out hatless! There was a definite change in the popular culture of hat-wearing in the 1960s. ISTM that the main remnant of it today is hats for Weddings, Race Meetings and Royal garden parties (also men's boaters at Henley Regatta, and school caps at posh schools).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
i can think of two women who wear, or wore, hats recently at our church. One was simply an elegantly dressed (but not over-dressed) person who liked to wear a hat. The other had been having chemo treatment.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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L'organist
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# 17338
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Posted
Don't you think the hat wearing Canadians in the photograph might be more to do with the ambient temperature?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Don't you think the hat wearing Canadians in the photograph might be more to do with the ambient temperature?
Could be. It gets muckle cold in parts of North America even today and yet hat wearing is not nearly so plenary as shown here.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Don't you think the hat wearing Canadians in the photograph might be more to do with the ambient temperature?
In the picture, certainly.
But I remember my grandfather gardening in mid-July wearing his hat in the mid 50s, and men would normally wear hats even in mid-summer at that time.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
This May 1960 FA Cup Final crowd indicates a much higher degree of hat wearing than is common today. (It was clearly shirt sleeves weather.)
There are several crowd scenes on this Daily Mail (sorry) page from which it was taken. Broadly speaking, men's hat wearing seems to have been more common in the past.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
Episcopal Church USA wore some type of head covering,until late 60's. I was told it was to show respect to God. You wore your good clothes as well, not your school clothes. When I was young it always seemed a special thing to do. I liked it.
When I go into the church to pray alone now I sometimes wear a vail. It puts me into the mood of prayer. It is showing respect to our Lord. Holy Ground. If alone I also may take off my shoes. I think of it as preparing myself for worship.
I sometimes wear a hat to church on Sunday morning simply because I happen to enjoy a hat and do not have an occasion to wear one very often.
[ 26. August 2016, 18:41: Message edited by: Graven Image ]
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
This May 1960 FA Cup Final crowd indicates a much higher degree of hat wearing than is common today. (It was clearly shirt sleeves weather.)
There are several crowd scenes on this Daily Mail (sorry) page from which it was taken. Broadly speaking, men's hat wearing seems to have been more common in the past.
Bloody JFK's fault, I reckon. And did for the waistcoat too.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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