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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: This has gotten personal
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Last night, I heard some disturbing news. My thirteen year old granddaughter, Kate, was taunted at school. She is part Filipino. One of her white classmates told her she was going to be deported. Thank God, she reported it, and the school administration is handling it. They met with the boy and his parents yesterday, and they will issue a policy statement to the student body on Monday.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There's web sites, where they're collecting incidents of this sort. There are too many to count, I am sorry to say. Here's one. The Southern Poverty Law Center is reputable.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
It's too easy to manipulate someone who is emotionally immature or inadequate into looking down on someone else, to the point of cruelty.
If only everyone saw others as of equal value to themselves. But I wonder, are we all guilty to some extent?
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
It was good that the school swooped right down on this. There are administrators who wouldn't. This is the pernicious influence of a bad authority figure. I miss Obama already.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Neph shared last night that pre-election, a customer at the store he works at threw a half full water bottle at him and said "When will you be deported so an American can have your job?" (He is part Mexican. Visually, he looks like he could be native Mexican.)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
There have been similar incidents in the UK following the Brexit vote, with at least one murder.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Get used to it. Post Brexit vote violence has risen as well. The politics of fear begets violence. And the removal of rights and benefits/entitlements.
The resultant decrease in prosperity for the misguided who voted for these things will increase violence.
X-posted with Alan, but his post does not contain enough gloom
[ 12. November 2016, 18:45: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
Front page news here in NZ today - an account by a young Indian New Zealander, a medical doctor, of having been called a 'f**king n****r' and threatened with a knife, on the street in San Fransisco.
What the hell kind of families do these people grow up in, that they might think for one second this sort of thing is acceptable behaviour?
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
...
If only everyone saw others as of equal value to themselves. But I wonder, are we all guilty to some extent?
So what do we do about it? Or do we not bother doing anything because we're all guilty?
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Thanks for your post, lilb, I was finding myself insufficiently gloomy today. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
As for what we can do-- has the safety pin thing been working in the UK?
(Safety pin thing)
(By the way, great sig, Soror Magna.)
[ 12. November 2016, 18:55: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
...
If only everyone saw others as of equal value to themselves. But I wonder, are we all guilty to some extent?
So what do we do about it? Or do we not bother doing anything because we're all guilty?
We set the example in word and action. We challenge them when anyone uses derogatory language about other people. We mix children in classrooms.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
As for what we can do-- has the safety pin thing been working in the UK?
That was a short-lived sort of thing I think. Some friends changed their avatars on Facebook to a safety pin at the time, but that's long gone and I haven't ever noticed anyone wearing one.
I'm afraid this will sound cynical, but I could see how a sign like that could be misused to lull someone into a sense of false security.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yeah, that crossed my mind, too.
I won't post the video, because it contains location markers, but one friend of mine followed a neighbor to his house and filmed the exterior, including the street sign, house number, and license plate, after he'd unloaded on her with (let's say)hostile miogynist threats, after she'd breaked on a residential street for pedestrians dashing in front of her. She then posted it in a neighborhood watch forum that was viewable to residents only.
[ 12. November 2016, 19:18: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Neph shared last night that pre-election, a customer at the store he works at threw a half full water bottle at him and said "When will you be deported so an American can have your job?" (He is part Mexican. Visually, he looks like he could be native Mexican.)
The SO annoys me. In ways that are not suitable for Purg.
In the UK at least, most of the jobs taken by immigrants are ones that British people aren't prepared to do. They have not taken British jobs, they have kept us going. I am sure it is the same in the US.
So yeah, get rid of all the people who do the menial jobs, because if Americans don't want to do them, they are probably not important.
Sigh.
This is the problem - it is not Trumps politics that are the problem. It is the legitimisation of racism, abuse, and hatred. That is the legacy of the Brexit vote and the Trump vote. And the fact that so many Christians align themselves with this.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
I didn't even register the safety pin thing (and I work in a very pro-Brexit area).
There was something else that went round on social media that I did pay attention to and can't find now - about going up to the victim, greeting them and talking to them rather than leaving them to suffer alone.
Advice from The Guardian
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Other incidents that have happened in our small town.
A gay man went to his car yesterday morning and found Die Fag and Go to Hell spray painted on his car. He tried to rub it off but the paint smeared. He reported it. The police in our community have a tweet account and they reported the incident. When the guy got back to his car, he found 20 people working to buff the graffiti off the car.
Same night a young woman was assaulted by two young men who grabbed her crotch claiming if Trump can do it, they can do it two. The assault was reported, no arrests have been made.
The safety pin movement has reached America. I will be wearing one as long as Trump/Pence remain in power.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
[crossposts]
It's totally the same in the US. White folk want someone else to clean up their trash, cook their food, look after their kids, trim their lawns, fix their plumbing, and run the cash register ( while they manage all these things) but then act like those jobs are meaningless.
That's why I like working for federally funded programs-- it's just a lot more satisfying to work your ass off for people who know what it's like to work their asses off, and by that I mean the parents, not the directors.
[ 12. November 2016, 19:26: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There's going to be a women's march on Jan 21 in DC. I'm going with friends.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There's web sites, where they're collecting incidents of this sort. There are too many to count, I am sorry to say. Here's one. The Southern Poverty Law Center is reputable.
We get their newsletter and it's always more than I can finish reading before throwing it out in a state of despair. Same with the link, I could only go so far.
I actually had told myself that, because I hated Donald Trump, I was probably reading too much in some of his message, "Nah, he can't actually mean that." Looks like some people were hearing all the ugliness that was there and more.
We have a huge meat packing plant in our town that is almost entirely manned by Mexican people brought here for the purpose and housed tightly in small apartments. The work is horrific, bloody, dangerous and disgusting. Whites never apply.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
I worry about my next-door neighbors, who speak Spanish. I worry about two of my colleagues, who are (I believe) here on work visas and speaks French and Arabic as their native tongues. I worry about my real estate attorney, who could not buy health insurance before the ACA. I worry about my students, many of whom are from India, including Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus (and women in scarves).
More selfishly, I worry that the Trump administration may change the law so states can go bankrupt--after all, he loves bankruptcy--in which case my state would likely do so and my prospective pension may disappear.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I'll wear a safety pin, along with my little enamel poppy, on my lapel tomorrow when I go to church. I wonder if anyone will notice, or whether they'll think a big poppy has fallen off....
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Ugly. Trump supporters yelling at Democrats to commit suicide.
It would be totally out of character for the man, but I do hope that the president-elect steps up and denounces this, and urges his supporters to be more decent. Oh wait, I write fantasy fiction.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Same night a young woman was assaulted by two young men who grabbed her crotch claiming if Trump can do it, they can do it two. The assault was reported, no arrests have been made.
I'm thinking we women and girls may need to start wearing women's athletic cups or pelvic shields. Yes, they exist. Or certain hygiene supplies. Or the vagina dentata (toothed vagina) gadget that some women at UC Berkeley wore when there was a campus rapist.
(Purposely not putting links, so H/As don't have to look at pics.)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
So what do we do about it? Or do we not bother doing anything because we're all guilty?
No. We are not all guilty if you are trying to go against the tide, to resist that sort of thing, to do what you can do. 'We are all guilty' is an emotional sop, a guilt trip, an indulgence for those who don't like the thought of personal responsibility.
I don't really understand this, but there are some people who find an amorphous sense of general abstract guilt reassuring in a way that enables them to evade the personal sort that fixes you in its spotlight.
None of us are guilty for what we can't do anything about. We are guilty for what we could do something about, but don't.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
Conspicuously absent from the hearsay accounts thus far is any mention/discussion of this...
or this...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Conspicuously absent from the hearsay accounts thus far is any mention/discussion of this...
or this...
Under Obamacare the first guy has a better chance of getting the treatment he needs. A year of Trump and I doubt he will be so lucky.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
I have voted UKIP on a couple occasions as a protest, and voted Leave for the same reason because Polls indicted a Remain win.
Me going all guilt ridden isn't going to stop post-brexit hate crimes, what might stop it is people like Farage and Bojo getting up and emphatically denouncing it.
What is currently going in America looks disturbingly like it will be several times worse that what has so far been seen here. Given the intensely personal and high profile nature of the Electoral Campaign there only one person in the US who can denounce hate activity, and he needs to do it fast.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
So what do we do about it? Or do we not bother doing anything because we're all guilty?
No. We are not all guilty if you are trying to go against the tide, to resist that sort of thing, to do what you can do. 'We are all guilty' is an emotional sop, a guilt trip, an indulgence for those who don't like the thought of personal responsibility.
I don't really understand this, but there are some people who find an amorphous sense of general abstract guilt reassuring in a way that enables them to evade the personal sort that fixes you in its spotlight.
None of us are guilty for what we can't do anything about. We are guilty for what we could do something about, but don't.
If we look down on others to the point of making unkind remarks, or worse, even within the confines of our own homes, or on a discussion forum, are we not guilty too, to some extent? Looking at the log in our own eyes is not an indulgence.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Same night a young woman was assaulted by two young men who grabbed her crotch claiming if Trump can do it, they can do it two. The assault was reported, no arrests have been made.
I'm thinking we women and girls may need to start wearing women's athletic cups or pelvic shields. Yes, they exist. Or certain hygiene supplies. Or the vagina dentata (toothed vagina) gadget that some women at UC Berkeley wore when there was a campus rapist.
(Purposely not putting links, so H/As don't have to look at pics.)
I've been thinking of some time of inventing some kind of protective device for the crotch that is perfectly normal against the clothes, but when great force is put on it, like a knee to the groin or somebody grabbing it, the cushy part gives way and there are needles underneath.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
If a sizeable portion of your population is racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and you can't change them because they don't want to change...
what the hell do you do?
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
How do you make people want to change?
I know TINACW, but what "sold" Christianity in the first place? According to Jesus, at least, he wanted the identifying marker of his followers to be thier love for each other. But what does that mean, anyway?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
...
If only everyone saw others as of equal value to themselves. But I wonder, are we all guilty to some extent?
So what do we do about it? Or do we not bother doing anything because we're all guilty?
We set the example in word and action. We challenge them when anyone uses derogatory language about other people. We mix children in classrooms.
This from a city well north of me.
What's troubling is that the 4chan generation thought this was a good joke. What's encouraging is that the administration pretty much went apeshit, and immediately made plans to turn this into a teachable moment. As well as sending a clear message that students intimidating fellow students would not be tolerated.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
(The above was a first dispatch sent out before the administration had produced a comment. This is the updated version I had originally read, which includes the administration response.)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Another news report about the upsurge in incidents, this one noting that the number exceeds those that occurred after 9-11.
It has been wisely suggested that the clergy weigh in from the pulpit, and I suppose this would help with people who go to church. Don't know what it'd do for those who don't. The only solution here is for the Orange One himself to calm the waters -- make a speech, or send a tweet, urging the nutcases to cool down. And I can't believe he'd do that. It would be totally uncharacteristic of him.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
The orange one is tweeting blaming the recent protests (he called them riots) are being funded by the liberal media. His presumed henchman Giuliani has said under his watch there will be no more riots.
Maybe Thomas Jefferson was right when he hypothesized America should reform its government every 20 years.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Well, so much for a soothing voice of reason.
I actually did speculate that his response to reports of violence would be, "Lies" and his response to video evidence would be "Faked."
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
The orange one is tweeting blaming the recent protests (he called them riots) are being funded by the liberal media.
Which has credibility, because we know that the dimocrats were paying for violence at Trump rallies as a means of stigmatizing his supporters.
Also the reason why thinking people wonder, when a church is burned or racist graffiti shows up, whether it is more likely that a Trump supporter is responsible or it's the work of some paid leftist douchebag.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
If a sizeable portion of your population is racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and you can't change them because they don't want to change...
what the hell do you do?
You can't change them. I had an argument on the internet with someone the other day who said that Muslims were guests in our country, had abused our hospitality, prisons were full of them and they should be deported. I pointed out that this wasn't true and that some had been here for decades, in which case they were hardly guests. His response was "60 years, what difference does that make compared to the timescale of British history". He then said he could cite evidence for all his assertions, but doubted I'd accept it because I probably wouldn't accept anything from the BNP and similar sites as having any veracity. Which he was right about. We agreed to disagree but I found the rigidity of his views disturbing.
I think Mother Teresa had it right: do it anyway.
[ 13. November 2016, 07:34: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I think part of the problem is that there are always some people who need to externalize their demons. Unfortunately, this can mean acting out the exorcism on anyone who appears to fit the description.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
The orange one is tweeting blaming the recent protests (he called them riots) are being funded by the liberal media.
Which has credibility, because we know that the dimocrats were paying for violence at Trump rallies as a means of stigmatizing his supporters.
Also the reason why thinking people wonder, when a church is burned or racist graffiti shows up, whether it is more likely that a Trump supporter is responsible or it's the work of some paid leftist douchebag.
Do you have anything to contribute other than repeating unsubstantiated accusations from those who spread hate, and derogatory mis-spelling the names of political organisations and individuals? Your posting record suggests not.
These are discussion boards. We value different opinions. But, your style of scattering threads with hate speech without any clearly formulated discussion points adds nothing to the discussions here.
You have two choices. Engage in discussions in a mature, sensible and thoughtful way. Or, keep quiet. This is your final warning, a last chance to change or else we will revoke your ability to post.
Alan
Ship of Fools Admin
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
If a sizeable portion of your population is racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and you can't change them because they don't want to change...
This is exactly what I've been thinking. And I completely reject the "listen to the voices of anger and marginalization" argument for the reasons that many have pointed out - the most marginalized and poorest voted Hillary.
The majority got it wrong. They sided with darkness. And they didn't get it wrong for noble or understandable reasons, they didn't get it wrong through weakness, it was negligence and deliberate fault. That's my view. Those people saying that liberals need to engage with these people and listen to them need to explain what that would actually mean in practice and how it would be done without validating and normalizing misogyny, hate and racism.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Well, no, the majority voted for Clinton.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
There are some reports that Clinton has received the largest number of votes ever cast for a candidate, except Obama. However, they are still counting. If that is correct, (nearly 2 million more than Trump), I think we can call that byzantine.
[ 13. November 2016, 12:28: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
There are some reports that Clinton has received the largest number of votes ever cast for a candidate, except Obama. However, they are still counting. If that is correct, (nearly 2 million more than Trump), I think we can call that byzantine.
According to AP, Mrs Clinton is just over 570,000 votes ahead. Her 60,000,000 votes is fewer than Obama received in 2008 and 2012, as you say, and also fewer than the 62m George W. Bush received in 2004. But of course, as you say it's not quite over yet.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
There are some reports that Clinton has received the largest number of votes ever cast for a candidate, except Obama. However, they are still counting. If that is correct, (nearly 2 million more than Trump), I think we can call that byzantine.
"Largest number of votes ever cast" is a really stupid metric in the presence of population growth. Fraction of votes cast, and fraction of total elecotrate, are both sensible things to consider.
On that front, Clinton currently has 47.8% of the popular vote vs Trump's 47.3%. That's about the same margin that Al Gore beat George Bush by (48.4% - 47.9%), but given that the election is not determined by the popular vote, you can't assume that people's voting patterns would be the same under a popular vote scheme. In particular, people in "safe" states would be less comfortable voting third party in a popular vote scheme.
Compare with the 1992 election, where Bill Clinton won with 43.0% of the vote, vs 37.4% for Bush and 18.9% for Perot.
If you want narrow margins, JFK beat Nixon by a mere 0.17%. The only other election that was closer in the popular vote was Garfield vs Hancock in 1880.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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rolyn
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# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
If a sizeable portion of your population is racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and you can't change them because they don't want to change...
what the hell do you do?
Stopping the loose use of contentious terminology like homophobe, misogynist, racist, so as to render them virtually meaningless might be a good place to start.
Trump just stood up over months of campaigning, blatantly withstood all the misogynistic name calling, plus a grotesque revelation that should have finished him, and then simply blew political correctness off it's pedestal.
I'm not applauding that achievement, it wasn't impossible to see it coming though.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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mdijon
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# 8520
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Posted
I don't think the Byzantines were big on representative democracy.
It is galling that Hillary won the popular vote, but those are the rules and for me the real travesty is that the thing was even in play. I find the intellectual challenge of coping with what it says about human beings that 61 million of them voted for Trump no different from the challenge that 64 million voted for him. It's a lot of people.
Of course the immediate practical challenge is that a dark, bullying malevolent bigot is POTUS elect. This is bad on many other levels.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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