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Like many forms of sexual deviance, pedophilia once was thought to stem from psychological influences early in life. Now, many experts view it as a sexual orientation as immutable as heterosexuality or homosexuality. It is a deep-rooted predisposition — limited almost entirely to men — that becomes clear during puberty and does not change.

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Originally posted by Ender's Shadow:
Given the shredding I got recently for paralleling homosexuality and paedophilia, I find it ironic to find that this is a view gaining increasing academic respectability. From the article:

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Like many forms of sexual deviance, pedophilia once was thought to stem from psychological influences early in life. Now, many experts view it as a sexual orientation as immutable as heterosexuality or homosexuality. It is a deep-rooted predisposition — limited almost entirely to men — that becomes clear during puberty and does not change.

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Originally posted by Ender's Shadow:
Given the shredding I got recently for paralleling homosexuality and paedophilia, I find it ironic to find that this is a view gaining increasing academic respectability. From the article:

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Like many forms of sexual deviance, pedophilia once was thought to stem from psychological influences early in life. Now, many experts view it as a sexual orientation as immutable as heterosexuality or homosexuality. It is a deep-rooted predisposition — limited almost entirely to men — that becomes clear during puberty and does not change.

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Originally posted by Ender's Shadow:
Given the shredding I got recently for paralleling homosexuality and paedophilia, I find it ironic to find that this is a view gaining increasing academic respectability. From the article:

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Like many forms of sexual deviance, pedophilia once was thought to stem from psychological influences early in life. Now, many experts view it as a sexual orientation as immutable as heterosexuality or homosexuality. It is a deep-rooted predisposition — limited almost entirely to men — that becomes clear during puberty and does not change.

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Originally posted by Doublethink:

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Originally posted by Ender's Shadow:
Given the shredding I got recently for paralleling homosexuality and paedophilia, I find it ironic to find that this is a view gaining increasing academic respectability. From the article:

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Like many forms of sexual deviance, pedophilia once was thought to stem from psychological influences early in life. Now, many experts view it as a sexual orientation as immutable as heterosexuality or homosexuality. It is a deep-rooted predisposition — limited almost entirely to men — that becomes clear during puberty and does not change.

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That source doesn't cite any academic studies.

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Yep.

Interestingly, the link is to an ethics blog which is discussing the ethical implications of the concept. The point being that the discussion is one that is taking place in newspaper opinions pages.

That is a hell of a long way from - what was it again? - oh yeah, I know; 'increasing academic respectability'




C- Must try harder...

or not.

AFZ

[ 21. January 2013, 23:14: Message edited by: alienfromzog ]

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

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Originally posted by Siegfried:
One ethics blog (which, if you look at the "about" section) does not increasing academic respectability make.

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The reason we think that homosexual intercourse is morally acceptable (and was before society “recognized” it as so) seems primarily to do with the understanding that it is a consensual act, not because it follows from an innate orientation rather than an acquired desire. Similarly, it would be strange to say that we think having sex with a child is wrong because pedophilia is an acquired rather than an innate attraction; we think it is wrong because children are not capable of consenting to sex due largely to their underdeveloped reasoning and decision-making capacities.

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Newsflash - people find comparing the sexual abuse of children to sex between consenting adults offensive.

Mental illness isn't chosen either, but nobody would say that same-gender attraction is a mental illness - or rather, they couldn't say it and expect to get away with it. Not everything that's sex-related and not chosen counts as an orientation comparable to homosexual, bisexual etc.

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Originally posted by gorpo:
... The question remains. Why is feeling atracted by younger people so instrinsically different from feeling atracted by someone of the same gender. ...

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Originally posted by gorpo:

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Newsflash - people find comparing the sexual abuse of children to sex between consenting adults offensive.

Mental illness isn't chosen either, but nobody would say that same-gender attraction is a mental illness - or rather, they couldn't say it and expect to get away with it. Not everything that's sex-related and not chosen counts as an orientation comparable to homosexual, bisexual etc.

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Is there anything other then people´s sensibilities that makes it okay to say feeling attracted by very young people is an "illness" but feeling atracted by people of the same sex is not? The world health organization only declassified homossexuality as an illness in 1990. But it´s easier to shut the discussion by sayng something like "No one could say it and get away with it".

And no, nobody is comparing sex between consenting adults with child abuse. But, *newsflash*, people can feel sexuallly atracted by kids and adolescents without taking action, and therefore, not committing abuse, just like some people might feel homossexual desire for their whole lives and not ever engage in homossexual relationship. The question remains. Why is feeling atracted by younger people so instrinsically different from feeling atracted by someone of the same gender.

The argument that it offends people is not scientifically valid.

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Having sex with a child, then, will be wrong regardless of whether the underlying attraction is deeply-rooted in the offender’s biology.

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“True pedophiles have an exclusive preference for children, which is the same as having a sexual orientation. You cannot change this person’s sexual orientation.” He added, however: “He may however remain abstinent.”

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This leads us to believe that therapy or an order given by a judge for a course of therapy, even though it may be seen as good news by all, cannot be perceived as an alternative to incarceration nor a substitute for punishment.

When we speak of therapy or when individuals get therapy and we feel as though everyone is pacified, the good news is often illusory. For instance, it is a fact that real pedophiles account for only 20% of sexual abusers. If we know that pedophiles are not simply people who commit a small offence from time to time but rather are grappling with what is equivalent to a sexual orientation just like another individual may be grappling with heterosexuality or even homosexuality, and if we agree on the fact that true pedophiles have an exclusive preference for children, which is the same as having a sexual orientation, everyone knows that there is no such thing as real therapy. You cannot change this person's sexual orientation. He may however remain abstinent....

...pedophiles are people who prefer prepubescent children. They're not interested in 15-year-olds who have an adult body shape or anything like that. They're not interested in those kinds of people. They have quite a restricted area of sexual interests in terms of the kinds of body types that their victims have. There is no evidence that this sort of preference can be changed through treatment or through anything else.

Treatment for those offenders shades into management, where you essentially have to teach someone to live within their sexual preference structure. They have to find other kinds of outlets. They have to avoid high-risk situations. They have to do all those sorts of things. But I think that most people would agree that this kind of sexual preference pattern—an actual preference for prepubertal children—is not alterable by any kinds of current treatments.

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Originally posted by no prophet:

Consider: being a psychopath, who considers themselves a person, and other people as "things" to be used with callousness*, presents themselves with superficial charm*, and is basically parasitic*, preying on others. It is also an orientation, or if you prefer, a personality disorder. Not curable, but manageable, and the management will include locking them away from those they may harm.

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
No, it isn't. It might be, legally, with a much older adult, but it isn't what a psychologist would consider paedophilia.

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
It's not about age differences, not from a psychological viewpoint. Paedophilia is an attraction to pre-pubescent children. After puberty, an individual may be legally a child but they are biologically - body shape, facial appearance - adult. Normal sexual attraction is to individuals with adult body shape and appearance.

I can only imagine that the age difference comes in in a limited manner during puberty, when the body shape is changing from child to adult. At this stage an individual may appear quite adult to other pubescents, but not to grown adults. This last bit is pure guesswork.

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Originally posted by iamchristianhearmeroar:
If Pedophilia were, for the sake of argument, an immutable orientation can it be explained from any sort of evolutionary perspective? I can't see any possible evolutionary advantage it might give.

I am not a biologist, so help me out here folks.

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Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
One interesting thing about this, is that hetero- and homosexuality are concerned with the sex of the partner, whereas paedophilia is concerned with their age, or stage of development. Thus, they are in a sense orthogonal to each other.

Thus, I assume that most male paedophiles are heterosexual, (they like little girls), although I don't have the stats to hand. On the other hand, one might argue that terms like 'heterosexual' should not be used about paedophiles, since they are showing regressed behaviour.

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limited almost entirely to men.

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Is this the view of one specific Canadian research group - I can't find anything much else in terms of academic study.

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Originally posted by Ender's Shadow:

Now, many experts view it as a sexual orientation as immutable as heterosexuality or homosexuality. QUOTE]

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Originally posted by iamchristianhearmeroar:
If Pedophilia were, for the sake of argument, an immutable orientation can it be explained from any sort of evolutionary perspective? I can't see any possible evolutionary advantage it might give.

I am not a biologist, so help me out here folks.

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Originally posted by iamchristianhearmeroar:
I am in no way hostile to evolution. I was just interested as to whether there could be any possible biological explanation as to why paedophilia might be an immutable characteristic.

It was probably a red herring, certainly not a canard (rouge)!

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Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Let me summarize my views then: paedophilia is in the main a dangerous heterosexual perversion. Accordingly, heterosexual teachers, and in fact, anyone heterosexual working with children and young people, should be kept under close scrutiny.

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Originally posted by Sergius-Melli:
I always get a bit wooly on this topic when it comes to the lower end of the spectrum.

I can never remember the exact position the law takes when a 15 year old and a 17 year old are in a sexualised relationship - since it is the age of consent thing that makes all the difference, but the gap between the two people is so insignificant, is this classed as paedophilia or not...

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Originally posted by orfeo:
But previous threads indicate that glockenspiel feels our desires are far more malleable than many other Shipmates think.

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