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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Banning Donald Trump from Britain
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
This topic probably doesn't need any introduction, but a brief summary is as follows:
After Donald Trump's declaration of his intention to ban Muslims from the United States, a petition was started in Britain with the idea of getting enough signatories to debate in Parliament whether Donald Trump should be banned from the UK for hate speech.
The petition got over 570,000 signatures and is currently being debated. In practice it's quite unlikely that Donald Trump will actually be banned from the UK, but what are shipmates' views on this?
1) He should be allowed to visit Britain and say what he pleases.
2) He should be allowed to visit Britain but given a "guided tour" where he will visit a mosque, talk to Muslims, and see London and Birmingham with a view to debunking him of some of his wilder ideas.
3) Inviting him to Britain to see for himself would be a waste of time. He knows what he thinks and a visit wouldn't change his mind.
4) Banning him from Britain wouldn't help. It would give him extra publicity, would take away a chance to show him the reality on the ground, and also, if he did become President, make things rather awkward.
5) Yes, he should be banned from Britain for promoting hate speech. His visit would stir up divisiveness and encourage those who shared his views to become more active.
6) Donald Trump is honest enough to say what people really think but are afraid to say. Invite him here and get him to give some talks.
Or anything else that hasn't been covered...
I'm aware there is a Presidential thread running in Purgatory already but I'd like to focus on the freedom of speech angle here, not whether he gets elected or not. What do you think? There have been some good points put forward in the House of Commons debate on either side.
[ 16. May 2016, 08:19: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
As an American, I'm pretty squeamish about trying to regulate people's rights or ability to speak their minds. Although I recognize that one can argue that his speech constitutes a call to violent action (even if not explicitly so) against a certain group of people. Which is certainly NOT admissible and legally actionable.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
After foisting Piers Morgan on the Americans for a while it's only fair that we take someone in return.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
No good will be done by banning this ass from Britain, especially during the election. I like Ariel's suggestion #2.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I started off thinking 5 but then thought 2, but now I'm thinking 3. I don't think a guided tour or "fact-finding" mission would change his mind. However, I feel he should be given the opportunity.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
I'm really in two minds. I would love to him to come visit and see the wonderful communities and mosques and learn.
But equally, I am so upset with him for - not what he has said as much as what he thinks. Freedom of speech yes. But such ignorant and bigoted and vile thoughts? ug.
I would be surprised if he came to UK given what he has said about the place?
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Almost uniquely for me, I signed the petition, and even got a few others to sign it, basically because it offered a grassroots way to hit back at someone who mirrors much of what I dislike in Marine Le Pen.
(As I still hold British nationality I was entitled to do so).
It's also great to have a system whereby if an issue gathers enough signatures, it may be debated, as this one is being.
Now, however, I hope (and anticipate) that the motion will not pass. The debate will serve to air the issues and see where some UK politicians stand, but he should not be banned so that he can see others do not seek to pay him back in his own coin (which would make him a martyr).
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I see the debate has ended without a vote.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I signed to express my disgust really, I doubted a ban would happen - but I suppose also to highlight the contrast with other people who *do* get banned. He shouldn't get a free pass because he is rich and famous, if we'd ban people advocating something similar re Jews we should ban him. If we are not going to ban him, in the name of free speech, then we should be more careful about who we do ban for exactly the same reasons.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
I'd like to vote for...
7) Invite him to Britain -- but not allow him back in the U.S.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Russ
Old salt
# 120
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Posted
If Mr Trump is saying this, you can bet that there's some part of the American people agree with him.
Better that he says it outright, so that those who are appalled by the idea can make their case in reply, than that he keeps his thoughts private until he's in a position of power.
Better that those who agree with him are engaged in the democratic process than that the rules of that process are somehow written to exclude their views. Because trying to get their way by private action in a gun-owning society is worse.
Free speech can go this far.
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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas
Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001
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Russ
Old salt
# 120
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Posted
The other thing is, I can imagine some people in Britain getting pretty upset if the US decided to try to influence a British election by publicly declaring that Mr Corbyn (just for example) was unwelcome in their country...
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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas
Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Some Shippies write as if Trump has never been to Britain. Of course he has. He has business interests in Scotland - some quite controversial and I presume he visits regularly. I doubt he's been to Birmingham or Bradford or down Brick Lane.
Thing is, whatever he sees would only confirm his suspicions and xenophobia. 'Hey, Prime Minister Cameron's saying that 190,000 Muslim women in Britain struggle with English ... that illustrates what I've been trying to say ...'
Banning the bastard wouldn't achieve anything and it may even convince some wavering Americans to vote for him.
I don't often quote Thatcher but her oxygen of publicity comment springs to mind.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I don't accept this is an attempt to influence the American election, not least because I doubt anyone believes the GOP base who support Trump give a flying fuck about a UK petition.
[ 18. January 2016, 19:19: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I've said this before, but the UK banned Dutch politician Wilders once, so I guess there is precedent.
[ 18. January 2016, 19:25: Message edited by: LeRoc ]
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
No good will be done by banning this ass from Britain, especially during the election. I like Ariel's suggestion #2.
I would plum for that one as well. It seemed to work for the ex leader of the EDL. Not sure what's happened to him these days.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
If you mean Tommy Robinson, he's about to set up an English branch of Pegida, starting with a rally in Birmingham in February.
I also signed the petition, more as an expression of disgust than because I thought it would do any good. It has however at least highlighted the issue. I worry about the increasing prevalence of anti-Muslim views - replace "Muslim" with "Jew" for full effect - but I suppose the people who support Trump's views would say it wasn't the same thing at all.
I doubt if he would change his mind if he was taken to a mosque and introduced to some nice friendly Muslims. Some people see what they want to see.
Someone was asking during the debate in Parliament this evening how far freedom of speech should go before it should be banned. They felt Donald Trump should not be banned from Britain; his views might be controversial and unpopular but they were honest and deserved a hearing.
[ 18. January 2016, 19:50: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
Teaching the Donald is not, in my opinion, going to change anything about what he says. It is my thought that he figures out what makes people afraid and then tailors his speeches to inflame those fears; then tells how he is going to solve the problem causing the fear. Reality would only get in the way of the process for him.
Unfortunately, in certain sectors, his strategy seems to be working. On the other hand, I guess many of us are driven by self centered fear; myself included. I am trying to improve upon that and I recognize that self centered fear is a big motivator unless I am intentional about it not being a motivator.
Banning the Donald would, again only in my opinion, inflame the anthrophobia of many of his supporters. In other words, it might solidify his support among his current supporters. The world is, after all, out to get them.
There is nothing wrong with expression of disapproval of the Donaldagogue. Just try to not lower yourselves to his level.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
If you mean Tommy Robinson, he's about to set up an English branch of Pegida, starting with a rally in Birmingham in February.
I also signed the petition, more as an expression of disgust than because I thought it would do any good. It has however at least highlighted the issue. I worry about the increasing prevalence of anti-Muslim views - replace "Muslim" with "Jew" for full effect - but I suppose the people who support Trump's views would say it wasn't the same thing at all.
I doubt if he would change his mind if he was taken to a mosque and introduced to some nice friendly Muslims. Some people see what they want to see.
Someone was asking during the debate in Parliament this evening how far freedom of speech should go before it should be banned. They felt Donald Trump should not be banned from Britain; his views might be controversial and unpopular but they were honest and deserved a hearing.
I'm not keen on that idea that he's honest and therefore deserves to be heard. Sincerity can be overdone, for as Nye Bevan said of Anthony Eden at the time of the Suez crisis: "If Mr Eden is sincere in what he says, then he is too stupid to remain Prime Minister". It was mean, as Eden wasn't well at the time, but there's truth in there too.
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
If you mean Tommy Robinson, he's about to set up an English branch of Pegida, starting with a rally in Birmingham in February.
Yes, couldn't quite remember his name, only that he'd appeared to have turned his back on extremism having mingled with moderate Muslims.
Not the case then.
Anyone who wants to make every Muslim the enemy along with the majority of Islam, will surely find themselves with a bigger problem than the one currently existing.
I agree with Tortuf about the inner fear potential in each of us. It was deliberately tweaked after 9/11 in order to gain support for the Iraq debacle. But, as with Jekyll and Hyde, it could activate of it's own accord if minority terror groups continue to make headway in the wider world.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
What do I think? As an American, I'm full of cross-pond jealousy. It's simply not fair that y'all get to vote to keep the guy out...
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
"The Donald" is among the stupidest of meaningless the nicknames I've ever the heard.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Oh, it has a meaning. In American English, referring to a person as "The" [name] is to class him as an object, similar to "the toadstool" or "the cowpat."
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Oh, it has a meaning. In American English, referring to a person as "The" [name] is to class him as an object, similar to "the toadstool" or "the cowpat."
Well, it can equally mean "the one and only" in American English.
Meanwhile, the origin of "The Donald" as a nickname for Trump.
And I'm all in favor of him going to any other country that will keep him.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
As an American, I'm pretty squeamish about trying to regulate people's rights or ability to speak their minds. Although I recognize that one can argue that his speech constitutes a call to violent action (even if not explicitly so) against a certain group of people. Which is certainly NOT admissible and legally actionable.
To an extent I agree - however the debate is not in practice about Mr Trump's right to free speech, but his right to enter a foreign country. Unless one believes in open borders this is not an automatic right.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
"The Donald" is among the stupidest of meaningless the nicknames I've ever the heard.
But appropriate if we only refer to Trump as "it", as one might speak of a visitation of the plague.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Donald Trump would like nothing more than to be banned from Britain.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
The best way to treat Trump is to ignore him totally. In that way he will only be of significance in his own eyes while the rest of us can give attention to people and things that are important.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
"The Donald" is among the stupidest of meaningless the nicknames I've ever the heard.
But appropriate if we only refer to Trump as "it", as one might speak of a visitation of the plague.
It's almost always used tongue-in-cheek, a sardonic reference to Trump's oversized ego, the way he speaks of himself as the be-all and end-all of all Donalds, the biggest and the best everything.
In reality, as those who call him "The Donald" with all but audible air quotes, is that he is the be-all and end-all of buffoons.
Again, completely jealous that y'all have the ability to vote him off your island.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Donald Trump would like nothing more than to be banned from Britain.
This would allow him to blather on at full volume on the evils of King George III, still a surprisingly live figure for some people. Better yet would be to put him on a few interview shows for good long 30-45 minute one-on-one dialogues. I think he would find it difficult to manage them-- he seems to be the sort of person who prefers sound bites.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
The Donald doesn't do one-on-one interviews. He just shouts over them. Whatever question is asked, however important or relevant it might be, he just shouts over them, repeating his same tired talking points/rallying cries, doubling down on his latest shock-jock hate speech.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Bits of the MPs' debate are being shown on US evening news, and we have now learned the expression "wazzock." Thank you.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
The best way to treat Trump is to ignore him totally. In that way he will only be of significance in his own eyes while the rest of us can give attention to people and things that are important.
Rather like ignoring a wasp at a picnic - some people just can't help flapping at them.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I'd like to see Trump allowed in, if only so he can be questioned about what promises he gave Alex Salmond to get him to 'call-in' the decision on the golf development in Aberdeenshire.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
The best way to treat Trump is to ignore him totally. In that way he will only be of significance in his own eyes while the rest of us can give attention to people and things that are important.
Rather like ignoring a wasp at a picnic - some people just can't help flapping at them.
That's the perfect metaphor. Take a glass, pour a little cola in (not diet), and when he crawls in, put a plate over it. Perfect. He can rant away but no one can hear him and you can dispose of him at your leisure.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
This:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Donald Trump would like nothing more than to be banned from Britain.
That's more than a sufficient reason not to ban the dick-head.
Of course, he ain't going to get banned. But I suspect the merest threat of it has got him drooling and rubbing his hands with glee and it'll have been as manna from heaven to his supporters.
Nice own goal, folks.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
So what would actually constitute hate speech or sufficient reason to be banned from entering the country?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
In this day and age, banning a speaker from your shores has almost a touch of sympathetic magic about it, as if keeping his physical presence out of the country will somehow prevent anyone from hearing all the offensive things he has to say.
Whereas in reality, The Worst Of Donald Trump is just a mouseclick away for anyone with YouTube access.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I've said this before, but the UK banned Dutch politician Wilders once, so I guess there is precedent.
The problem from a UK perspective anyway - as you point out above - is that a number of other people have previously been banned from visiting the UK - either entirely, or in the context of a specific visit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_banned_from_entering_the_United_Kingdom
So, assuming Trump is let in then the question would be, to what extent are his views less extreme than someone like Farrakan (or Julien Blanc). Or are we in a situation where government policy is driven on the basis that hate speech against some groups is more permissible than hate speech against others?
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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itsarumdo
Shipmate
# 18174
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I've said this before, but the UK banned Dutch politician Wilders once, so I guess there is precedent.
The problem from a UK perspective anyway - as you point out above - is that a number of other people have previously been banned from visiting the UK - either entirely, or in the context of a specific visit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_banned_from_entering_the_United_Kingdom
So, assuming Trump is let in then the question would be, to what extent are his views less extreme than someone like Farrakan (or Julien Blanc). Or are we in a situation where government policy is driven on the basis that hate speech against some groups is more permissible than hate speech against others?
I think it's more that banning a potential (!) US president whatever he says is less acceptable than banning a wacko marginal right/left wing nobody.
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"Iti sapis potanda tinone" Lycophron
Posts: 994 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Jul 2014
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
The list of banned individuals is kind of fascinating. I am entertained to find Todd Bentley (or Bent Toddley as I believe he was once known around these parts ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ) on there. OTOH what on earth did Dmitri Shostakovich do to get banned? ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Apologies for tangent.
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I've said this before, but the UK banned Dutch politician Wilders once, so I guess there is precedent.
If I recall correctly, one of the reasons and possibly the main reason why Wilders was banned was because Lord Ahmed (who is mentioned in that BBC report) threatened to get a rabble to demonstrate outside Parliament. I thought the government's decision was a disgraceful capitulation to mob rule.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Anglican't: If I recall correctly, one of the reasons and possibly the main reason why Wilders was banned was because Lord Ahmed (who is mentioned in that BBC report) threatened to get a rabble to demonstrate outside Parliament. I thought the government's decision was a disgraceful capitulation to mob rule.
I wasn't in the Netherlands at the time, so I'm not very aware of the circumstances. I haven't expressed a strong opinion in favour or against banning Wilders.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
After foisting Piers Morgan on the Americans for a while it's only fair that we take someone in return.
Yeah, thanks for that.
As horrifying as the thought of Trump being elected is, if he wins I can't imagine the UK banning the President of the US from visiting.
That's probably the main reason why some MPs were arguing against his being banned. But don't be under the illusion that he has friends here. Even if he wins, President or no, he will have to mature enormously before even those MPs who spoke against banning him will respect him.
Nobody official here has ever respected Berlusconi.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Nobody official here has ever respected Berlusconi.
Well, apart from Tony Blair ...
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
The best way to treat Trump is to ignore him totally. In that way he will only be of significance in his own eyes while the rest of us can give attention to people and things that are important.
Rather like ignoring a wasp at a picnic - some people just can't help flapping at them.
That's the perfect metaphor. Take a glass, pour a little cola in (not diet), and when he crawls in, put a plate over it. Perfect. He can rant away but no one can hear him and you can dispose of him at your leisure.
Yes, yes! Yes, Britain, please be our glass of cola and contain this nasty little insect for us.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Nobody official here has ever respected Berlusconi.
Well, apart from Tony Blair ...
Surely even Berlusconi wouldn't mistake Tony Blair's obsequiousness for respect? I can imagine the two of them singing "You're So Vain" to each other.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Beautiful Dreamer
Shipmate
# 10880
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Teaching the Donald is not, in my opinion, going to change anything about what he says.
...that's assuming he's teachable at all, which I don't think he is. Even if *he* were, I doubt the people who agree with him would be. I've known a few people like this and being willing to listen to other points of view isn't exactly one of their strong points.
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More where that came from
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
Posts: 6028 | From: Outside Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Can you ban Sarah Palin at the same time? Satan's endorsement of Trump certainly builds The Doorknob's credibility.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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