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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Is it really the Last Jedi? Spoilers, too!! Beware!
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
SPOILERS for entire series of NUMBERED Star Wars films (in this and later posts).
Yes, SPOILERS, really. {Our chief weapon is fear and surprise.}
SPOILERAMA! (Our two chief weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency.}
SPOILERS, LLC. {Our three chief weapons are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to the pope.}
SPOILERS & Spam, served in the Comfy Chair.
--Rey’s parentage:
It’s possible that her parents were “nobodies”, but I don’t think Kylo Ren was telling the truth. It’s unclear whether Jedi potential is usually passed down, or a spontaneous occurrence in an individual, or simply developed in training. There weren’t all that many Jedis in Ep. 1, before Anakin (later Vader) was born.
Anakin was special. He was actually a child of the Force. Per his mom, she either hadn’t been with a man to cause that pregnancy, or she was a virgin. (Wasn’t quite clear to me.) When the Jedis took him in, they refused to take his mother, too. (IIRC, Liam Neesen’s character said something like “I don’t have any orders about that.) This led to horrible circumstances for Anakin’s mother, pushed him over the edge, and drove him to the dark side.
He’s the father of Luke and Leia, and passed Force potential down to them. Very strong in Luke, partly due to training. Leia has it, too, but more quietly, and she may not have had formal training. But that’s (presumably) allowed her to save herself in Ep. 8 (TLJ).
She passed the potential down to Ben/KR. His development and then training went very, very badly. But he has abilities that even Vader didn’t have, like reaching out directly to Rey. And Rey’s abilities are *at least* as strong.
Star Wars works with patterns, as myths and folklore often do. (And, remember, George Lucas purposely set out to create what he called “a myth for our times”.) There were all sorts of shout-outs to the other films.
Given that, the most like scenario is that R and B/KR are some sort of siblings or close relatives. One possibility—and this is EWWW ICKKK—is that, before Luke and Leia knew they were siblings, they were together. (NOTE: I’m not sure of the ages of R and B/KR, so this might not fly.) And had offspring. Maybe Leia didn’t tell Luke, and gave up the baby. (Probably Rey.) That would explain Luke not having any clue who Rey was.
Might also be that Luke had a child with someone else. Or an embryo was frozen, or…
OTOH, it could just be that the Force felt the need to produce more children of its own.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
{/end SPOILERS}
Buffer before next post, 'cause I missed the edit window.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
Spoilers incoming
Spoilers incoming
Spoilers incoming
Spoilers incoming
I personally like the idea that after all Rey really is a nobody from nowhere. It’s the uprising of the little people in the face of the ones who have always held all the power. I’ll feel a bit bummed if she turns out to be hidden nobility after all.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Spoilers incoming
Spoilers incoming
Spoilers incoming
Spoilers incoming
I personally like the idea that after all Rey really is a nobody from nowhere. It’s the uprising of the little people in the face of the ones who have always held all the power. I’ll feel a bit bummed if she turns out to be hidden nobility after all.
Agreed. It also fits with the message of TLJ that the force is for everyone, not just the elites.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
After TLJ I'll be very disappointed if turns out Kylo Ren was lying and Rey really is "someone special." The message that nobodies from nowhere can be heroes was my favourite thing about TLJ.
The movie was a mixed bag for me. I was bored during the first hour, and kept drifting off to sleep and waking up with a jolt whenever something exploded. The first time I really loved the movie was when Luke just randomly milked that four-titted beast on his island and knocked back the mug of milk. Like ... why?
Loved Yoda lecturing Luke about failure.
I have problems with the geopolitics of the larger story arc. If the Empire was defeated at the end of the original trilogy, and the Republic has been ruling ever since (about 30 years?), presumably the Republic is pretty well established by the beginning of TFA. I thought the First Order was represented in TFA as a smallish terrorist organization romanticizing the totalitarianism of the dead Empire -- kind of like neo-Nazis in Europe today. That seemed plausible.
But then, how do we get to a position a short time later, at the beginning of TLJ, where the First Order seems to be all powerful and the remnants of the government that has been in power for the last 20-30 years is reduced to a small band of "Resistance" fighters? That would be hard to pull of in a single country ... much less an entire planet ... much less a multi-planetary system. Were there large pockets of Empire loyalists all over the galaxy being kept in check during the years of Republican rule, who all rose up very quickly in response to the success of the First Order? Was this explained during one of the bits where I dozed off?
(Actually there's a fascinating tangent here -- it's obviously much easier to stir up audience sympathy for a small band of beleaguered rebels than for a large, entrenched government trying to hold its own against terrorists -- so I feel like the filmmakers had to turn the heroes into a small band of rebels even though it doesn't make sense in-universe. But again I may well have missed something).
It's heartbreaking to me that they were so obviously setting the third movie up to be Carrie's big star turn, after Han and Luke getting the focus in TFA and TLJ. I assume Kylo's inevitable redemption arc would have come about as a result of a climactic confrontation with his mom, and eventually Leia's heroic death would have triggered something in him ... but I guess that's the movie we'll never get to see, and I'm very sad about that.
I continue to give the new Star Wars movies full marks for excellent representation of women and people of colour, not just in a token "Hey look! Strong Female Character Kicking Ass!!" kind of way, but in the sense that they show women in all kinds of roles, including background and relatively minor roles, just as if women actually made up about half the population of the galaxy and were as varied and unique as men are. The same seems to be true for how they represent non-white characters, suggesting the galaxy far, far away is a genuinely varied and diverse place.
They'll also score some points for LGBTQ representation if they ever bring that Poe/Finn romance that fans are shipping to fruition, though there wasn't much in the TLJ to support that, alas.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I am reliably informed that movies #1-3 (the Anakin ones) are tactfully ignored as hard as possible. No midi-chlorians. This at least is wise, but then we do lose the Virgin Birth of Anakin.
I believe that the creators' current goal is to get away from this "you are born with the Force" thing, which inevitably produces a hereditary elite. (If you were not born with the Force you might as well give up and go become a brain surgeon.) They didn't like the way #1-3 was going with the mythos. Notice how it has now changed. Luke Skywalker (the second-to-last Jedi, right?) confides the big secret to Rey: that the Force is everywhere, for everybody. They are moving it from a hereditary monarchy, with but a single heir, to a populist democracy. Remember that closing scene? Surely this is a harbinger of the direction to come: the poor and oppressed, touching and seizing the power that is open to all.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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nickel
Shipmate
# 8363
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Posted
saw it today.
.
.
.
(Not that any of this is important spoiler-wise.)
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I loved bad guy Snopes' dress -- shiny and swishy! Bowie's "Queen Bitch" is still playing in my head. I also thought I saw an homage to Blazing Saddles' closing scene. At least, that's what the romp through the casino reminded me of. I would have appreciated it if at least one of the light-saber fights had been cut short by good guy pulling out a pistol, a la Indiana Jones. I adored the crystal foxes, could have used more of them.
Posts: 547 | From: Virginia USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
.
.
.
I have problems with the geopolitics of the larger story arc. If the Empire was defeated at the end of the original trilogy, and the Republic has been ruling ever since (about 30 years?), presumably the Republic is pretty well established by the beginning of TFA. I thought the First Order was represented in TFA as a smallish terrorist organization romanticizing the totalitarianism of the dead Empire -- kind of like neo-Nazis in Europe today. That seemed plausible.
But then, how do we get to a position a short time later, at the beginning of TLJ, where the First Order seems to be all powerful and the remnants of the government that has been in power for the last 20-30 years is reduced to a small band of "Resistance" fighters? That would be hard to pull of in a single country ... much less an entire planet ... much less a multi-planetary system. Were there large pockets of Empire loyalists all over the galaxy being kept in check during the years of Republican rule, who all rose up very quickly in response to the success of the First Order? Was this explained during one of the bits where I dozed off?
I thought the Republic PTB were the ones targeted by the Death Star***uh***Planet big gun thing in TFA. Although, how the First Order were able to finance and build that thing (was Snoke the snake rich?) without those same Republic folks knowing about it was a bit of a puzzle to me.
You can tell Kylo Ren is related to Anakin by his whiny temper tantrums. I don't know how the kid can focus enough to actually do magical Force things! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
I think that Ben and Rey are twins. Think about it - Luke and Leia were twins. Twins in a family are hereditary. So Leia has twins, but somehow it is understood that they are in danger or will be a danger. So (like Luke and Leia) they are split up as babies and Rey is spirited away somewhere. Maybe things went wrong with her adoption and she ended up as a nobody.
But it might explain why she and Ben have this unique communication.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Yes, I lean towards twin theory, too. There are lots of cross-references, call-and-response moments, in TLJ. At least to the previous film and the original trilogy.
Example: In TLJ, when Rey confronts Luke with her light saber, Luke very purposely bares his flesh hand, referencing when he lost his other hand to Vader, his father.
And then there's R2 playing the old hologram of Leia to make a point.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 07. January 2018, 01:47: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Um ... but didn't Leia meet Rey in either this movie or the previous one? I certainly do not recall an OMG here's my missing baby moment. Surely you would -notice- if you had twins; that's not the kind of detail that would escape your attention. Recall that Princess Amidala died giving birth to her twins (Luke & Leia). Obstetrics is clearly not one of the areas of science that the galaxy is very interested in developing, not like ray guns or combat robots. They cannot have an artificial-womb technology. You could postulate a donor-egg carried to term by a surrogate mother, but again, you can't just donate an egg like donating a fingernail clipping. Harvesting an egg is a major thing.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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gustava
Apprentice
# 15593
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Posted
Maybe cousins? With Luke having a weak moment somewhere along the line and never knowing the result?
Posts: 18 | Registered: Apr 2010
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Why do you need Rey to have lineage? Personally I think Rey's no-one in particular status is deliberately to wind up the fan theories. "Nope. You're all wrong."
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Why do you need Rey to have lineage? Personally I think Rey's no-one in particular status is deliberately to wind up the fan theories. "Nope. You're all wrong."
I really hope she has no lofty lineage and that Kylo Ren was telling the absolute truth, because the idea that the heroes can be nobodies from nowhere was, to me, a major theme of TLJ that would be vastly undercut if Rey turned out to be yet another missing Skywalker.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Of course, if we were to pick up the episodes 1-3 storylines then the Jedi didn't go in for relationships, marriage and all that emotional attachment stuff. Which would mean that trained Jedi having children would be unusual, and the majority of those taken into training in the Jedi order would have been from families without prior Jedi members. So, the dynasty of Anakin-Luke/Leia-Ben/Kylo is the anomaly and Rey being from nowhere the norm.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
There is also the question of how when a ship in orbit (i.e. freefall) opens its bomb doors the bombs would drop at all.
There was evidently some form of artificial gravity within the bombers. So, when released the bombs would fall through the ship in response to that artificial field. Once outside the ship those bombs would continue to move in the same direction.
Though it doesn't answer why they didn't just fire a whole load of missiles from a greater distance before they got shot up.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
In the Star Wars universe it is a waste of time to consider the laws of physics. (All those big booming sounds, when the ship explodes in deep space, yeah right.)
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Um ... but didn't Leia meet Rey in either this movie or the previous one? I certainly do not recall an OMG here's my missing baby moment. Surely you would -notice- if you had twins; that's not the kind of detail that would escape your attention.
If so, I don't remember them meeting. But maybe they were both placed under some mental block so they wouldn't recognise each other?
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699
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Posted
They definitely meet, at the end of TFA. Finn is rushed off to a medic and Leia hugs Rey. No "my lost child!" moment.
Posts: 863 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
Are we doing the "spoiler space" thing?
<Snip>
They'll also score some points for LGBTQ representation if they ever bring that Poe/Finn romance that fans are shipping to fruition, though there wasn't much in the TLJ to support that, alas.
No. just fucking no. We don't need pasted on storyline romance. We need relationships that just are, in situ, as no big deal.
Finn is just there, another character. Yes, they do have a line to explain why he is not a clone, but his blackness is just there. They need more background humans with colour variation, and they are getting slightly better at it. LQBT+ characters need to be an accepted part of the universe, not special one-off story lines.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
I guess I don't understand why it would be "pasted on" as opposed to "in situ" if two characters of the same gender, who (at least in the eyes of many viewers) appear to have a strong bond and possibly an attraction between them, were to be seen as a couple? Why wouldn't Poe and Finn be a natural love story?
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
I guess I don't understand why it would be "pasted on" as opposed to "in situ" if two characters of the same gender, who (at least in the eyes of many viewers) appear to have a strong bond and possibly an attraction between them, were to be seen as a couple? Why wouldn't Poe and Finn be a natural love story?
Love stories are ancillary in the Star Wars universe. Even in the Three Which Shall Not be Named, the love storyline was secondary at best. Even though it was supposed to be a driver of Anakin's downfall. Where it did feature, it didn't help the story.
To do it justice, the relationship should be more real, and that would take over the film. If there had been hints in the first two, I would have less objection.
I want more LGBT+ characters in film. But I want them in ways that best serve LGBT+. As much as it would please a few fans, I don't think this would.
Black people have not been amazingly helped by being added on characters. (Side-kicks, comedy foils, magical helpers, etc.) Where they are main characters who happen to be black, it helps more.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
I apologize for my truncated posting the other day. I was attempting to use my smartphone to be part of the fun and found, to my dismay, that smartphones and Ship Of Fools are not a match made in heaven! My laptop is crying, sighing, and dying and my wife and I are trying to come up with funds to get it fixed. So, long story short, I promise not to post here unless I'm using a computer!
Question: A friend asked me if I wanted to see The Last Jedi. I very much want to but as previously posted, I hadn't seen the earlier one. I know Han Solo bit the dust at the hands of his whiny brat son and new characters abound. Will I be completely lost if I go see this? I plan on seeing the first new one sometime next week but tomorrow is the only chance I'll have to see this new one before it comes out on DVD.
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
You will probably not understand some of what is going on, and who certain people are if you see TLJ before TFA. IMHO!
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
If you've seen the original three, from long ago, that will give you maybe 2/3 of what you need, IMHO.
[ 15. January 2018, 04:07: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
Before I saw it for the first time, I made sure I re-watched the entire series (1,2,3,R1, 4,5,6, and 7) in order.
Just in case.
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
Before I saw it for the first time, I made sure I re-watched the entire series (1,2,3,R1, 4,5,6, and 7) in order.
Just in case.
Wrong order. The correct order is:
4, 5, then 2, 3, R1 as flashbacks, 6, 7. 1 didn't exist, it is a figment of a diseased imagination, because Jah Jah Binks.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Neither did “2” or “3” for the same reason
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
For me, the best order is: 4, 5, 6, 3, 7, 8.
I like parts of 1 and 2. But why in the world did Lucas portray characters is a speciesist/racist way? (Not just Jar-Jar's people (though I like him very much, and they're great warriors), but also the Asian-looking ambassadors.) If other characters saw them that way, that's one thing. But to actually portray them that way...
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
ETA: I saw 4, 5, and 6 when they first came out, back in the day, so I view the rest from that perspective. I don't think 1-3 should've been made. But 7 and 8 are back on track with the old-school ones.
![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
[ 16. January 2018, 01:29: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
1 didn't exist, it is a figment of a diseased imagination, because Jah Jah Binks.
There is an argument that Jah Jah Binks is not even the worst part of the film.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
This is from the Washington POST, but should amuse. It seems that some men's rights activists, displeased by all the women in the film, cut their own version of it. Unfortunately bobbing all the women out makes it only 48 minutes long and very nearly incomprehensible, but hey. Il faut soufrir pour etre belle.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Well I suppose a thousandth of a credit point can be given for them for being open that the main problem they have with it is their personal misogyny.
Minus several million, of course, for being misogynists in the first place.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
If they had cut all the persons of ethnicity as well they could probably get it down to 20 minutes.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
If they had cut all the persons of ethnicity as well they could probably get it down to 20 minutes.
Misogyny is its own thing. Racism was pretty much a feature of feminism for years.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
So I went to see this film for a second time and it definitely stood up to repeat viewing.
The things I enjoyed seem to be the same as others:
-the stunning fight/action scenes. That light sabre battle: choreographed, but not so slick as to be false.
- if they are going to pair anybody up I couldn't definitely predict how. Very unusual, especially in a cast with this many permutations.
-the acting/chemistry.
-the unpredictability of what will happen in the third film. It's a pity Rian Johnson won't be directing it.
-optimum porg. I liked the fact that porgs only came about as a way of disguising the puffins on Skellig St Michael, cheaper than erasing the birds in post-production. A fortuitous accident.
-that it's not just about good vs evil, but the consequences of good people doing bad things. Finn and Rose's little trip and decision to trust the Benicio del Toro character(never trust Benicio del Toro) and Po being a massive brat have terrible consequences, but are in line with the characters and are only wrong if you know what the audience knows. What would have happened to Ben Solo if Luke hadn't had a moment of stupidity?
A nice job
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is from the Washington POST, but should amuse. It seems that some men's rights activists, displeased by all the women in the film, cut their own version of it. Unfortunately bobbing all the women out makes it only 48 minutes long and very nearly incomprehensible, but hey. Il faut soufrir pour etre belle.
Two Hostly reminders:
1. Even a single phrase or sentence in a foreign language should come equipped with translation, if it must be used at all -- remembering that not everyone's French (or Latin or whatever as the case may be) is at the tip of their brain.
2. When posting links to a news article that is behind a paywall, could you please put [paywall] in your post to indicate that this is so? This will save some people a bit of frustration trying to click on links they can't open.
Trudy, Scrumptious Heavenly Host
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I finally got the chance to see The Last Jedi on Saturday. Loved it!
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
We went on the weekend, in 3D. Us and 7 other people. It seemed disjointed, with little bits chucked in for no really good reason. I remember lining up in 1977 for original, and how ground breaking it seemed. Am I just jaded and old 40 years later, feeling they have exhausted the franchise?
Only question: If Snoke was so all powerful, why didn't he heal himself of the decubitus ulcer (bedsore) on his face. Or were they just making him gross along the lines of becoming ugly is the reward for being evil. Kylo Wren has acquired a scare and still has excellent teeth, as good as Rey's. Should we expect his uglification next episode? he's already got a nice scar.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Ulcers and other skin ills are an ancient indicator of Bad. Syphilis made it so.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
It seemed disjointed, with little bits chucked in for no really good reason.
Also saw it over the weekend. I agree that it dragged on a bit, and it seemed like a tighter edit could have been helpful. Then again, I don't know what you cut. The whole mission to the war profiteer planet was clearly there so that Finn would have something to do in this movie, but it really hit the point of what the rebellion is up against, and I hope they do more with it down the line.
The throne room fight scene was totally awesome, as was Luke taking on and emerging from that massive barrage. The silent scene was amazing and had me shedding a few tears. Carrie Fisher flying through space? Yeah, I get why people thought it could have been explained better, but the fact that she can use the force seemed relatively clear to me. Seeing her name on the closing credits brought a few more tears- what a force (pun noted but honestly not intended.)
Speaking of female forces, Daisy Ridley is just the perfect blend of delightful and bad ass.
In sum, in spite of the pacing issues I loved it.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Re throne room fighting. Evidently light sabres cauterize wounds very well. Snoke's guts didn't spill out of the halves of him.
The big-eyed gerbil bird things were obviously aimed at stuffed toy marketting. Not your Wookie's teddy bear. Chewbacca should have eaten the one he cooked. Reminded me of a Shrek scene "have another rat".
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
A friend of mine calls these (and the porgs) "visitors from the planet Buy-Me."
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Re throne room fighting. Evidently light sabres cauterize wounds very well. Snoke's guts didn't spill out of the halves of him.
Helpful for keeping the PG rating, I suppose.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
One more thing to add (it's a good sign when you still want to talk about a movie four days later).
I loved what they did with the "who are Rey's parents" angle. Loved it. I don't know if it was a complete troll of everyone who spent the last two years wondering what the big reveal was going to be, or what. But I loved it.
I guess I was never one of those people who was overly upset about how they turned force sensitivity into a genetic trait, or the whole line that you have to start as a kid to learn to use the force. But I'm still much happier about the idea that there are kids lurking in the shadows who could become future Jedi. And the bit at the end where the slave kid was using the force to sweep the floor underscored that so well.
We love Star Wars in part because it is a thoroughly unashamed and corny underdog story. This brought that back brilliantly.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
One more thing to add (it's a good sign when you still want to talk about a movie four days later).
From this I surmise that you are not a film geek and are new to the Star Wars universe.
quote:
I guess I was never one of those people who was overly upset about how they turned force sensitivity into a genetic trait,
But this is at the heart of why The Episodes That Shall Not be Named are so bad. It is a change that rips a hole in the heart of the strengths of the whole saga and, in the end, is no different in effect.
quote:
But I'm still much happier about the idea that there are kids lurking in the shadows who could become future Jedi. And the bit at the end where the slave kid was using the force to sweep the floor underscored that so well.
I like the democratising of the Force. Could have been done without pretending to science it.
Science doesn't belong in Star Wars.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
..Chewbacca should have eaten the one he cooked...
Yes. If it's not eaten, then that porg died in vain...
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ArachnidinElmet:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
..Chewbacca should have eaten the one he cooked...
Yes. If it's not eaten, then that porg died in vain...
Damn things should not have been in the film. Cutey little pieces of shite. But that scene bothers me the most. Tears. Really? And has no one involved ever seen a roast bird with feet still attached?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Addiitonal things which come to mind:
-Cradle Jedi versus converso
-Laity can do what priests do
--Ben Solo was pushed by Luke to become bad, he didn't choose to become bad. What about Judas and Jesus? Luke being Jesus of course.
-12 plus droids and porgs at the movie's end. I was suspicious about the number.
Other: I had to look it up to confirm, but there was a First Order ship landing which was actually a steam clothes iron.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
--Ben Solo was pushed by Luke to become bad, he didn't choose to become bad.
No, he was already being courted by the Darth Gollum. At most, Luke's mistake was a final push.
quote:
Other: I had to look it up to confirm, but there was a First Order ship landing which was actually a steam clothes iron.
Not quite, but there was an homage. Should watch it again and look for Arty-Deco
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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