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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » Daily Mail, Bullshit Mountain, lurch to the right, Hatred - what do we actually do? (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Daily Mail, Bullshit Mountain, lurch to the right, Hatred - what do we actually do?
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Russ:

And if you tell those people for long enough that their concerns (about immigration or political correctness or anything else) make them no different from the far right then they'll end up on the far right.

These concerns don't exist in a vacuum - and given the statistics showing that concern over immigration is often higher in areas with very low levels of immigration, this concern must arise of something other than peoples lived experiences.

Yes, fear of the unknown comes into it for sure. But I live in a town where there are several ethic groups, but they don't mix much. There are big cultural differences which, even with open minded people, are hard to surmount. I have Muslim friends, colleagues and next door neighbours. We get on well, but they never visit my house - three big, over friendly dogs.

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 12553 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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Of course, I'm a foolish liberal, but this piece by ThinkProcess seems to me to be the best explanation of the current state of the world.

The TL;DR version is "President-elect Donald Trump does not create new realities. He tells lies that are seemingly random, frequently inconsistent, and often plainly ridiculous."

Which is basically what the Daily Mail has been doing for years.

It tries to pretend that it has a unique and interesting view of the world and that the available facts can be rearranged into the image that they are portraying. In reality it is just lies (mixed with half-truths, knee jerk reactions, out of context claims, inane commentary and wolf-whistles the the hard-right) that are seemingly random, inconsistent and plainly ridiculous.

[ 28. November 2016, 07:33: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The outcome of that vote was more down to popular discord rather than some sinister rise in fascism fermented by dubious publications.

I would agree that "popular discord" was a significant proportion of the Leave vote - people voting as a protest against the government, without any thought of the issues of EU membership or immigration. Others voted to Leave out of questions of sovereignty, for whom immigration was not an issue.

However, I don't think it can be denied that many people have been convinced that immigration is a problem, rather than the fact that immigration is a benefit to the country. And, a lot of that has been because they've had decades of "newspapers" like the Mail telling them lies about immigrants - including lies that immigrants are taking council houses.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31968 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
But are there really? Mail readers see themselves as being a cut or two above the red-tops, and the real papers use long complicated words and don't spend so much time on the doings of the Kardashian clan. Unless the UK press has grown considerably in the years since I left, I'm not sure that the selection is as wide as you imply.

"I only read Der Sturmer because of their sports coverage."

[Roll Eyes]

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 8703 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Confession: I used to read the Telegraph because of the quality of their cricket reporting, and the cryptic crossword. I don't anymore, partly because I didn't have time to actually read the news, and it's an expensive way to get a daily puzzle and a few pages of cricket reporting.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31968 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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We (post-grads/post-docs) also used to get the Telegraph for the cryptic crossword. Not that we could ever complete the bloody thing.

But the Telegraph is demonstrably of a different nature to the Mail. I'm not going to lump them in together on some false-equivalence.

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 8703 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
hatless

Shipmate
# 3365

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Someone called the a Telegraph crossword the last refuge of a lazy mind. [Biased]

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My crazy theology in novel form

Posts: 4483 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
anteater

Ship's pest-controller
# 11435

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Is it my imagination but is the Torygraph morphing into the Nigel Farage PR man?

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Schnuffle schnuffle.

Posts: 2513 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858

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quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Someone called the a Telegraph crossword the last refuge of a lazy mind. [Biased]

I like it because it's do-able while (deceptively) looking as difficult as The Times.

But I don't buy the Telegraph any more. Sigh.

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

Posts: 2810 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
hatless

Shipmate
# 3365

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I occasionally attempt the Guardian crossword, but mostly it has the effect of making me stare into space for long periods.

Very much like recent politics. I don't know what is going on. I'm not persuaded by most analyses I've seen. I don't know what should be done or where to throw my puny weight.

My most optimistic idea has been that voting has been trivialised by reality show votes and the Internet style of just getting thoughts, likes, downvotes, and so on out there.

I suspect there has been a lot of protest voting, not entirely serious or deeply felt, but expressing negative feelings because you can. Like the poll to name a research ship that came up with Boaty McBoatface. It's a gesture, not a serious attempt to participate in the democratic process.

We were told that many who voted Brexit didn't expect it would be the majority. Probably they voted leave because they expected no change. Yesterday's by-election supports this.

Yes, the Daily Mail is a heap of soul toxins, and I'm sure it has a pernicious influence, but I don't think it has made the nation suddenly full of bigots, any more than Trump will find everyone in tune with his bullying style.

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My crazy theology in novel form

Posts: 4483 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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I thought that Boaty was a kind of piss-take of various pompous farts who abound in public life. Also, it's fun, FFS.

However, Brexit is different, and can't be summarized in one neat theory. It's a move to the right, it's nationalist, it's cocking a snook at politicians, it's a rejection of austerity, it's a fuck off, it's anti-foreigner, blah blah blah.

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no path

Posts: 9521 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The outcome of that vote was more down to popular discord rather than some sinister rise in fascism fermented by dubious publications.

I would agree that "popular discord" was a significant proportion of the Leave vote - people voting as a protest against the government, without any thought of the issues of EU membership or immigration. Others voted to Leave out of questions of sovereignty, for whom immigration was not an issue.

However, I don't think it can be denied that many people have been convinced that immigration is a problem, rather than the fact that immigration is a benefit to the country. And, a lot of that has been because they've had decades of "newspapers" like the Mail telling them lies about immigrants - including lies that immigrants are taking council houses.

Immigration is probably both unavoidable and beneficial. I suppose politicians are bending over to the UKIP position, and thus, are in denial.

I don't see how you can control it, unless you can control labour shortages, but how would you do that? Or there is the fantasy, that local youth will be up at 6am to pick the strawberries. Local farmers deride that one, for one thing, they are too unfit.

I see that plenty of Labour MPs are being very shifty about this, I suppose in fear of their seats in Leave areas.

And, the new UKIP leader wants to dismantle the NHS, so we can see his leanings. To the right.

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no path

Posts: 9521 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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Seem to remember a phrase from politicking of old called "play the race card", almost as if to do it was some sort of dirty trick, an under hand means of gaining cheap public support.

That has gone out of the window. Trump and Brexit are *Diana style* politics which many predicted would find favour. Throw in Internet echo chambers and you find democratic Swings far different now than those driven by the Daily Rag of yesterday.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

Posts: 3043 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged



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