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Source: (consider it) Thread: Standing With Sweden
Gramps49
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After all, they stood with America during the Bowling Green Massacre.

If you believe the media in Sweden, Friday night was relatively uneventful. Among the most noteworthy headlines in the country were reports that a popular Swedish singer had technical problems during a music competition.

But if you listened to President Trump on Saturday, it seemed as if something happened Friday night in Sweden that deserved the attention of the world. However, nobody knew what that might be, least of all the Swedes.

Trump continues to criticize the press as the enemy of the people with fake news, but the only one distributing it is Trump himself.

Of course, when he was challenged he said he got his information from FOX news. Apparently, FOX news is claiming the crime rate is increasing in Sweden because of the influx of Refugees, but Swedish crime records have stayed study for over two decades.

Again, who is providing fake news?

In the meantime I am standing with Sweden.

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Gee D
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What, stand with Sweden, that well known hotbed of terrorist support and nurture? Then wait until he discovers that every now and then Sweden has a democratic socialist government, a good universal healthcare system, and programmes for supporting those who need it.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Pangolin Guerre
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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:

If you believe the media in Sweden, Friday night was relatively uneventful.

[snip]

Swedish crime records have stayed study [steady] for over two decades.

Swedes, and their media most especially, are notorious lying bastards. Their media have been covering up all manner of mayhem for decades. Crime statistics? Lies. Damned lies. Statistics. And lying Swedish bastards.

Pass the port, please.

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sabine
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As I posted on the Trumpton thread in Hell:

I'm a Swedish-American who likes to keep in touch with the homeland. I know exactly what happened, and it's terrifying.

Friday, February 17 was the Swedish nameday for all those named Alexandra. Let this be a lesson to us al


sabine

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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

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Brenda Clough
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I can't find the meme now. But the caption is "We shall rebuild!" And the picture is a Swedish flag, and an Ikea hex screwdriver.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Stercus Tauri
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Ah, Euripides*: "Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad". The fake president is coming along quite nicely.

*Or somebody like him.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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Nicolemr
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I saw a meme that said something, I forget exactly what, about supporting Sweden, or praying for Sweden, and had a picture of a lit candle in a Swedish meatball.

Made me rather hungry...

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Kwesi
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I think it a disgrace that the Swedes have been kept in ignorance by their mendacious government and media of the egregious activities of their immigrant community. Without the unwillingness of Donald Trump to bow to diplomatic niceties they would remain ignorant of the existential threat their society is facing. Praise God, the US President has outfoxed the liars once again. He's a breath of fresh air.
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lilBuddha
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OK, Fox was providing the fake news by interviewing a nutjob who claims the Swedes are covering up immigrant violence.
Cheeto was referencing this. Still spreading rumours as propaganda, so it doesn't let him off the hook.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Augustine the Aleut
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Let us never make light of the Bowling Grön massacre.
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Golden Key
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I just hope T's comments don't trigger something. There are Swedes who are very against other ethnicities, just like Breivik in Norway. Or like some of the creeps in the "Girl With The Dragon Tattoo" series, which takes place in Sweden.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
I saw a meme that said something, I forget exactly what, about supporting Sweden, or praying for Sweden, and had a picture of a lit candle in a Swedish meatball.

Made me rather hungry...

I'll go for lacy Swedish pancakes, with fresh lingonberries and lingonberry syrup. Yummmm.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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simontoad
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Does anyone know where to get a swedish flag overlay for your facebook profile pick?

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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orfeo

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Again, who is providing fake news?

Given that most events (or even non-events) now have two wildly different interpretations, I think one conclusion that can be safely drawn is that the amount of fake news has spiked upwards.

Which is no laughing matter. It's one thing to have differing interpretations of events. It's quite another to have such high-level disagreement about whether events even existed.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Stetson
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
OK, Fox was providing the fake news by interviewing a nutjob who claims the Swedes are covering up immigrant violence.

This is the kind of story where no one really gets their opinions changed either way. If you're a Trump-hater, it's gonna be a lot of jokes about IKEA and retorts about how much better Swedish health care is.

And if you're a Trump-lover, you're gonna find all the Daily Mail articles about how Sweden is a hotbed of immigrant crime, and fire back with "Okay, so nothing happened LAST NIGHT, but..."

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Eutychus
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Overall, I think this is win-win for the Trump administration.

Trump's approximative language has kept him one step ahead of the game all the way up to the top job - so far.

This soundbite was addressed to his core constituency, about which he has famously said that he could go out on Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and they would still back him. They really don't care about the accuracy of what he says and I guess few of them have anything more than the vaguest of ideas where either Sweden or Bowling Green are.

Meanwhile his opposition jump all over this inaccuracy and froth at the mouth. The media report it, they analyse it, the internet produces memes and even the serious-minded denizens of Purgatory go largely for satire in response. The guy is providing us with a source of entertainment, bitter though it may be.

And more importantly, distraction.

If there is anyone with half a brain in his administration (and I very much fear there is) they are quietly progressing more intricate pieces of legislation like this one which as far as I can see opens the way for corruption and embezzlement on the part of oil firms, one of whose former CEO's (and still, as I understand it, a shareholder) is now US Secretary of State.

It took me far longer to find coverage of that resolution than it did anything about Sweden, and the outrage is minimal.

Track the fake news, fine. But more people should be tracking the non-entertaining, real news.

[ 20. February 2017, 05:25: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Golden Key
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Eutychus--

Maybe some of the leaks have come from people on T's team? Someone whose conscience is finally getting a word in?

It would be funny if *several* of them are leaking, not knowing about any of the others.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Barnabas62
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You've all missed the real Swedish scandal. On the day in question, a live bull moose humped a wooden life-size model moose three times. That moose was clearly deliberately deceived. Or maybe just desperate enough to believe anything.

I take Eutychus point of course. But no one should be surprised at moves to deregulate business in favour of the oil industry.

Nor should it come as any surprise that the originator of the false story which Trump falsely remembered was Faux News. Carl Bernstein described Trump as the real enemy, since he is the enemy of truth. I'm not sure that's completely accurate. I have been reminded of the judges comment re John Stonehouse, the infamous UK politician who even faked his own death. "For Mr Stonehouse, truth was a moving target". For Mr Trump, too.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Eutychus--

Maybe some of the leaks have come from people on T's team? Someone whose conscience is finally getting a word in?

[Waterworks]

That is not a leak, it is what used to occupy most of the space in the media; it was called "reporting".

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Baptist Trainfan
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Or is there something else going on? Did Trump deliberately hint at the Sweden "massacre" simply to give grist to the mill of his conspiracist supporters who will say, "See, that just shows how the media are closing ranks and hiding this terrible story because it doesn't fit into their liberal view of the world. Even Fox News has been contaminated now!"

(Personally I don't think he's bright enough to think in that way, but we all know that those evil Merino sheep in Australia were the ones who really plotted the destruction of the Twin Towers, don't we?)

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Eutychus
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I think Kellyanne Conway's statement on Bowling Green could only have been deliberate and reflected an agenda similar to what you describe.

Trump, I'm not so sure. I would hazard a guess that his talent is in knowing how to exploit an approximate communication style to the maximum after the fact rather than deliberately planning it beforehand, unlike Conway.

In my estimation, as a linguist and interpreter, Trump's remarks could just about be put down to a disjointed train of thought (not unlike some passages in Paul's epistles...) - I think the headlines overstate the case for a direct allusion - whereas there is no way Conway's could.

[ 20. February 2017, 07:40: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Barnabas62
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Yes, I think he is sometimes just careless with the truth, but I note it is always in the interests of his own agenda.

But on other occasions, the misrepresentations seem to me to be calculated, deliberate. Truth as "a moving target"?

Quoted elsewhere, but I liked this from Shepard Smith of Fox News. Yes, Fox News.

quote:
Shepard Smith called him out. "It's absolutely crazy," Smith said. "He keeps repeating ridiculous throwaway lines that are not true at all and sort of avoiding this issue of Russia as if we're some kind of fools for asking the question."
I have very little doubt that when it comes to pre-election and pre-inauguration clandestine communications with Russia, he has something to hide and is purposeful in his use of smokescreens and evasions. And that's serious.

Whereas the Sweden thing may just have been a "grist to his mill" gaffe.

[ 20. February 2017, 08:02: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Eutychus
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Well I agree with BT that he is not that bright, but he more than makes up for it in cunning. Distraction is a big part of that.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Martin60
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This is win, win, win for Trump. The triumph of form over content in which he can never lose. How? What would he have to say or do, in character, that will turn the people who put him in power against him? The monthly rallies are a brilliant move.

Eutychus, your analyses resonates with me obviously.

Kellyanne knows that it only works to the good to get things 'wrong'? 'Accuracy' is for 'experts'. Factists.

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Love wins

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Eutychus
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I think there are only three things (short of force majeure circumstances) that could stop him: an action directly attributable to him alone with far-reaching real-world consequences that directly impacted his base; a crime so blatant, non-political and provable it could not be wriggled out of; or (and this is the most hopeful of the three) actions that make sitting Republicans in Congress start worrying about their reelection chances.

In the meantime, the rest, deliberate or otherwise, is useful distraction.

[ 20. February 2017, 10:18: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Martin60
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Aye. 3 it is if anything. That will take six months to become apparent at least. But why would it happen? His constituency's confidence cannot fail. Satire and liberal whinging are NOT speaking to power. Cost the opportunity of actually doing social action.

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Love wins

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
You've all missed the real Swedish scandal. On the day in question, a live bull moose humped a wooden life-size model moose three times. That moose was clearly deliberately deceived. Or maybe just desperate enough to believe anything.

Clearly the moose was an ISIS terrorist disguised as a refugee moose. If we don't close our borders immediately no moose will be safe! Sad.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Og, King of Bashan

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I just hope T's comments don't trigger something. There are Swedes who are very against other ethnicities, just like Breivik in Norway. Or like some of the creeps in the "Girl With The Dragon Tattoo" series, which takes place in Sweden.

Any word on if Sweden is also full of young women with photographic memories and unbelievably (literally) good hacking skills, along with aging and overweight yet still sexually irresistible journalists to fight them off? Preferably over a million cups of coffee and frozen pizza. (Sorry, still mad I waisted my time on the second and third books.)

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Sober Preacher's Kid

Presbymethegationalist
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Poor moose. What a terrible trick to pull on someone. And the splinters!

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NDP Federal Convention, Edmonton 2016: More Trots than the Calgary Stampede!

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Enoch
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Ah but there would have been a massacre if IKEA hadn't prevented it. It was only thwarted because somebody at one of the checkouts spotted the terrorists and very quickly built a wall. Imagine what might have happened if one or two of the screws in the flatpack had been missing.

Santa Lucia has protected Sweden yet again, and it wasn't even the 13th December.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Ah but there would have been a massacre if IKEA hadn't prevented it. It was only thwarted because somebody at one of the checkouts spotted the terrorists and very quickly built a wall. Imagine what might have happened if one or two of the screws in the flatpack had been missing.

Santa Lucia has protected Sweden yet again, and it wasn't even the 13th December.

What an awesome description of Trump -- one or two screws short of a flatpack.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Enoch
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We must not mock. I have just heard that Paul Nuttall lost some very dear friends in the Swedish terror attack.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
We must not mock. I have just heard that Paul Nuttall lost some very dear friends in the Swedish terror attack.

Non UK-resident shipmates might need to read this, to get what the reference is.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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roybart
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Writing as someone who thinks the Trump election victory is possibly he most serious internal threat to U.S. constitutional goverment since the 1850s and 1860s, I find it worrying that there is so much sneering about both Trump and the 10s of millions who admire him.

During the campaign Bill Mahr was worst, but the constant battery of contempt from Comedy Central, Saturday Night Live, etc. etc. turned out to be futile at best and counterproductive at worst.

Better to respond to each outrageous misrepresentation with a simple factual corrections, citing sources. The cumulative effect of these -- possibly summarized and talleyed up at the end of each week -- would eventually undercut the excitement provoked by Mr. Trump's daily blather. It might also provide lessons about responsible citizenship and clear, honest expression.


Mocking thsese people during the campaign clearly did not work. It may actually have increased the vote for Trump at the time when all the ,media polls were predicting a Clinton victoty.

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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton

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Lamb Chopped
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# 5528

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
What an awesome description of Trump -- one or two screws short of a flatpack.

I read this as "one or two screws short of a flapjack."

Which might be even better.

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Boogie

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# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by roybart:

Mocking thsese people during the campaign clearly did not work. It may actually have increased the vote for Trump at the time when all the ,media polls were predicting a Clinton victoty.

Nonsense.

Parody and satire have been part of the political landscape forever. An important safety valve imo.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by roybart:

Mocking thsese people during the campaign clearly did not work. It may actually have increased the vote for Trump at the time when all the media polls were predicting a Clinton victory.

Nonsense.

Parody and satire have been part of the political landscape forever. An important safety valve imo.

I agree.

I spotted a bumper sticker this morning: "My comedy channel is Fox News. My news channel is Comedy Central."

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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roybart
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# 17357

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quote:
Nonsense.

Parody and satire have been part of the political landscape forever. An important safety valve imo.

I am not denying that "safety valve" effect, and I am quite familiar at least with some of the political satire literature going back to ancient Greece. Nor was I speaking about satire per se.

Perhaps you have to live in the U.S. to experience the full extent and reach of the online, radio, and print world in which the Trump fanatics express their outrage. Typically, in my experience, the speaker ignores entirely the substance of anti-Trump statements or refutations, focusing instead (and obsessively) on their perception that all disagreement is insulting, condescending, and arrogant in the method of expression.

Communication methods that "work" in educated, cosmopolitan, liberal milieux seem merely to produce among Trump supporters and fellow travellers further outrage, intransigence, and a refusal to even listen.

Speaking as a leftist, I would rather see a tamping down of the rhetoric from "our" side while focusing on more useful actions: political activism, litigation in the courts, and grasping the Trump phenomenon as an opportunity for all of us to learn what rational civic discourse ought to be.

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Martin60
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# 368

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[Overused]

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Love wins

Posts: 16192 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by roybart:

Mocking thsese people during the campaign clearly did not work. It may actually have increased the vote for Trump at the time when all the ,media polls were predicting a Clinton victoty.

Nonsense.

Parody and satire have been part of the political landscape forever. An important safety valve imo.

Rather assumes that the paradigm hasn't changed.

I have seen several observations recently about how we got to the whole 'fake news' thing. It's been building across a number of years. The fracturing of media, through the rise of social media, has totally changed the way that people get their information.

You simply can't rely on the idea that comedy will work in the way it used to, because you can't rely on the audience sharing the same common base on which the comedy works. Those that will laugh are the ones that share your factual base. These days, those aren't the ones that actually need to hear what the comedian is saying.

[ 20. February 2017, 20:32: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Kaplan Corday
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# 16119

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Ah but there would have been a massacre if IKEA hadn't prevented it.

There's going to be a massacre at our local IKEA soon if they don't stop forcing customers into trudging the endless labyrinth of the whole store in order to get out of the bloody place.
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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Ah but there would have been a massacre if IKEA hadn't prevented it.

There's going to be a massacre at our local IKEA soon if they don't stop forcing customers into trudging the endless labyrinth of the whole store in order to get out of the bloody place.
My parents had no idea what they were getting in to and took my two year old along on a trip to IKEA the other day. I certainly hope they had a cart to put her in, because if you think it takes all day to get through on your own, try it with a toddler running away from you every five seconds.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Those that will laugh are the ones that share your factual base. These days, those aren't the ones that actually need to hear what the comedian is saying.

Satire, especially political satire, has always been for someone other than those who laugh. Satire seeks to pop the bubble of the pompous. It's needed as much now as when Chaplin filmed the Great Dictator.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
There's going to be a massacre at our local IKEA soon if they don't stop forcing customers into trudging the endless labyrinth of the whole store in order to get out of the bloody place.

Don't they have a short cut any more?

(N.B. In this part of the world, the words "local" and "IKEA" don't go together).

[ 20. February 2017, 21:54: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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Martin60
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# 368

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I love IKEA, they should run holidays, the Tardis meets Narnia with MEATBALLS.

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Love wins

Posts: 16192 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
After all, they stood with America during the Bowling Green Massacre.
...
In the meantime I am standing with Sweden.

This will never leave me.

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Love wins

Posts: 16192 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Ah but there would have been a massacre if IKEA hadn't prevented it.

There's going to be a massacre at our local IKEA soon if they don't stop forcing customers into trudging the endless labyrinth of the whole store in order to get out of the bloody place.
It's one of my favorite places to go for exercise when it's too hot to walk outdoors.
[Big Grin]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Satire seeks to pop the bubble of the pompous. It's needed as much now as when Chaplin filmed the Great Dictator.

The trouble is that in a badly divided American society, it is Trump's opponents who are seen as pompous.

In 1940 The Great Dictator would have had near-universal appeal in the Anglosphere - even to American isolationists, who were not necessarily sympathetic to Hitler.

Today, critics of Trump. especially when they major on trivialities such as his hair, can come across as arrogant, supercilious virtue-signallers who despise ordinary folks, and just reinforce Trump's appeal.

The role of the media, the judiciary and the public at this time is to withstand Trump rationally and factually - and to not ignore genuine issues, such as the potential danger from Islamist extremism, just because Trump overemphasises or exploits them.

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Gee D
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# 13815

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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:

Today, critics of Trump. especially when they major on trivialities such as his hair, can come across as arrogant, supercilious virtue-signallers who despise ordinary folks, and just reinforce Trump's appeal.

This, and what Roybart and Orfeo said. To me, mocking Trump because of his hair is as offensive as slamming Obama because he was not 100% Anglo, or someone else because they use a wheelchair. Mock the stupidity of the policies and the language used to express them, but not physical attributes. Attack the idiocy of placing a man who had taken Putin's money in the past into the White House, but don't attack his hair.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Or is there something else going on? Did Trump deliberately hint at the Sweden "massacre" simply to give grist to the mill of his conspiracist supporters who will say, "See, that just shows how the media are closing ranks and hiding this terrible story because it doesn't fit into their liberal view of the world. Even Fox News has been contaminated now!"

(Personally I don't think he's bright enough to think in that way, but we all know that those evil Merino sheep in Australia were the ones who really plotted the destruction of the Twin Towers, don't we?)

Sheesh. Way to get a missile chucked at Wagga Wagga you bastard.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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