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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The current scandals and my political dilemma
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
Oh, crap.
Apparently I should have waited longer.
Politics is compromise and good people do bad things. However, if this latest is true, there is no excuse for him or any good reason to continue supporting him. I think Franken as good as admitted the validity of the claim. He says he does not remember the encounter, but does not deny the possibility. If I were accused of grabbing an unwilling persons arse, I could honestly call it an untruth as I have never done it. I would not have to remember every specific possible opportunity to have done.
This could be a poor choice of words on his part, but one would think he is choosing carefully at this point.
I do not think that politicians should be given a pass for this behaviour simply because they might support one’s overall politics.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
I think the right political choice now is for Congressional Democrats to tell Franken he's got to resign. They will lose hope of gaining the moral high ground on the issue for another decade if they don't. The governor of Minnesota will appoint a Democrat and the Dems won't lose a Senate seat.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607
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Posted
Yeah, Franken's toast.
Is there some rising Minnesota Democratic star to take over? And is she female?
Ruth Bader Ginsburg is right: there will be enough women on the US Supreme Court when we hit 9.
Looks like we'd better start electing lots of women to the House and the Senate, too.
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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free
Posts: 374 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Jun 2016
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I admit I question this latest Franken at the fair account more than the previous one.
It's so bizarre! AIUI, he (a senator) is meeting with constituents at a fair; a man takes a pic of his wife posing with F; her butt is allegedly groped by F; and she tells her husband and her mom.
This happened in public.
Seriously?
If F did that, he'd have to have no self-control and no sense of self-preservation.
Is it possible that he put his arm around her for the pic, and didn't realize exactly where his hand was??
Maybe it's true. I just find it hard to believe.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Is it possible that he put his arm around her for the pic, and didn't realize exactly where his hand was??
Is it possible? He thought he had his hand of her waist / hip, but was actually cupping her arse? I suppose it's possible. It doesn't seem very likely, but one of the features of statistics is that if you do something (like pose for photos with people) many many times, then some moderately unlikely things will happen.
In my experience, however, when you inadvertently touch something you shouldn't, you move your hand and apologize.
[ 20. November 2017, 22:31: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Yeah, I was just thinking that if he was distracted (which happens all the time at a fair), overwhelmed by constituents, etc., he might have quickly put his arm around her mid-section without much thought or awareness. Sloppily.
I'm not saying that's what happened. Just that I have a hard time believing the account, as I mentioned. The woman may absolutely be telling the truth.
Whatever happened, it would be much wiser to just not touch the person *period*.
(Doesn't help that the PBS Newshour is reporting allegations against journalist Charlie Rose. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) )
[ 20. November 2017, 22:48: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Good Lord, who's next? We could almost make a Circus game out of it. Sort of like Clue: "Celebrity X with a former beauty queen backstage at the Ed Sullivan Theater."
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I admit I question this latest Franken at the fair account more than the previous one.
It's so bizarre! AIUI, he (a senator) is meeting with constituents at a fair; a man takes a pic of his wife posing with F; her butt is allegedly groped by F; and she tells her husband and her mom.
This happened in public.
Seriously?
Slate had an article last month on how predators take advantage of photo ops to assault women, which may lower your opinion of Elie Wiesel and teach you not to mess with Taylor Swift.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
And George HW Bush. Though I heard a suggestion that *his* behavior may be due to his Parkinson's, which can cause a loss of sexual inhibitions.
Thx for the link.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
And George HW Bush. Though I heard a suggestion that *his* behavior may be due to his Parkinson's, which can cause a loss of sexual inhibitions.
Thx for the link.
I had heard the same, but the most recent allegation dates from 1992.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Yuck.
Ok, don't be in a pic with anyone unless you're 5 feet apart.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
People like Al Franken are good at being the front people - the ones everyone looks at because they have the seat. He strikes me as a smart fellow though, and why wouldn't he be equally suited to an advisory role or other behind-the-scenes position where he could make an equally valuable contribution to the causes he now fights for as a senator? I don't know him by the way, other than as a politician.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
simontoad--
I don't know what Franken should do, or what should be done about him. (BTW, previously he was a comedian on the beloved, edgy, and long-running "Saturday Night Live" (SNL).)
If he leaves the Senate, that would make the place look more...virtuous. (Yeah, right, given all the other stuff that goes on there.) If he were to take a behind-the-scenes position, there would still be the possibility that he would abuse someone else.
What to do with the men who are falling down? If the people they hurt choose to take them to court, well and good. Probably most won't, unless there are class actions against a specific person, like Weinstein. So, if things continue as they have been, there will be a lot of powerful, abusive men out of work.
Many/most are probably wealthy enough to support themselves with what wealth/assets they've got--if not necessarily in the style to which they've been accustomed. If there are no legal procedures, there's not really anything to keep them from going on to another job, and pulling the same crap. Unless binding mediation or something. With mandatory therapy (verified) for the rest of their lives.
Sorry this is wandering. I'm not sure what to do about any of this. I want it to go away; and I want it all to thoroughly play out and be cleaned out; and there will be a lot of backlash, and anti-backlash, and I'm not looking forward to that.
It took me a lot of time and hard work to get to the point of not feeling terrified when out, or in my building (there were problems). That's getting stirred up again, and I'm not happy about it.
Please, no one tell me there's nothing to worry about, or I'm making too much of it. The terror is rooted in many actual experiences of mine. Plus the bad stuff that happens to women all the time. And the bad stuff that happens to people in general, all the time.
Blech.
Working on regaining some mellowness. (Via chocolate, pizza, books, music...)
Oy vey.
[ 21. November 2017, 06:43: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Your reaction is why these things cannot be taken lightly (any more). Real damage is caused; real victims have a genuine complaint. A friend of mine has me-too'd, noting that being a rape victim when she was 21 forced her to give up her Rhodes Scholarship and drop out of her PhD program, not to mention years of psychological difficulty that have crippled her.
But we must be ever aware that the Russians are out there, probably with files and files of fake claims ready to pony out at any likely moment.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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