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Source: (consider it) Thread: Engaging Roy Moore Supporters
Brenda Clough
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If you have a strong stomach, go and read this rightwinger's explanation of why all right-thinking Christians should vote for Moore. The gist is that it's moral to vote for a molester because he's pro-life. The rights of the unborn override the well-being of any living 14-year-old girl.

[ 30. November 2017, 19:48: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]

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Brenda Clough
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And one more fine free link, in which Moore does a Bible study proving that women should not hold elected office or serve in the military. There are so very very many men in the world who would benefit from meeting my daughter. She is a major in the US Army Reserve, and could be relied upon to show them why women should be in the military. And also why we need Obamacare, because then they would need hospitalization.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Golden Key
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Brenda--

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
If you have a strong stomach, go and read this rightwinger's explanation of why all right-thinking Christians should vote for Moore. The gist is that it's moral to vote for a molester because he's pro-life. The rights of the unborn override the well-being of any living 14-year-old girl.

I'm not reading the article, because I'll get too upset.

But...someone who is an avid child molester wants *more* children to be born...
[Projectile]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Golden Key
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On tonight's (Thursday's) Jimmy Kimmel show, Jimmy totally owned Moore. Details and transcript there. Quite a deal.

**This will be a SPOILER**, if you haven't yet watched tonight's show. It'll be on here in about an hour. The transcript is so good that I'll definitely watch.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Brenda Clough
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Not sure this link will work. It should take you to a Twitter page with a photograph of a church sign. In Alabama, needless to say.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Gramps49
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Well, we do not have to worry about Roy Moore anymore.

Doug Jones won! By 20,000 votes 50% to Roy Moore, 48%.

Note: there were 23,000 write-in votes for someone other than the above two.

Notably, there was an unusual turn out of black voters.

College educated Alabamans went for Doug Jones

Young Adults ages 18-41 went for Doug Jones by 61%

57% of the female vote 57% went for Jones

During the presidential election, Trump won the state by 28%. The Senate election shows that his support has vanished.

The previous elected holder of the seat, Jeff Sessions, won it by 97%. Talk about an earthquake for the Republican party.

Look for a number of Republican Senators opting to retire in the next year.

Am I crowing? You bet!

The Senate is now 49 Democrats to 51 Republicans.

Look for the Republican Tax Plan to crash and burn.

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Golden Key
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It's great. But Moore is calling for a recount.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Martin60
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Wah-HOO! There IS hope!

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Love wins

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Eutychus
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You can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time?

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Martin60
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If only the Democrats can hang on in Missouri, Indiana, West Virginia and North Dakota next year? And take Nevada and Arizona?

THAT would be the end of the beginning. This is the beginning of the beginning.

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Love wins

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Doc Tor
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It's worth saying that that mainstay of the vote was the overwhelming number of black voters who turned out for Jones.

And that juuuuust enough white folk then voted Dem or a write-in to swing it.

Well done, white people! [Disappointed]

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Forward the New Republic

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Tubbs

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Brenda--

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
If you have a strong stomach, go and read this rightwinger's explanation of why all right-thinking Christians should vote for Moore. The gist is that it's moral to vote for a molester because he's pro-life. The rights of the unborn override the well-being of any living 14-year-old girl.

I'm not reading the article, because I'll get too upset.

But...someone who is an avid child molester wants *more* children to be born...
[Projectile]

Skimmed it. The basic argument is that both candidates are bad but one is less bad than the other because of their stance on abortion. Which is different to your takeaway.

The writer also makes the unpopular, but possibly accurate, point that older guys dating much younger girls wasn't such a big thing back then.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Martin60
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Hmmm. There enough black folk and liberal Republicans in the West? Even so, if Alabama can go Democrat so can Tennessee and Texas.

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Love wins

Posts: 17008 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Not sure this link will work. It should take you to a Twitter page with a photograph of a church sign. In Alabama, needless to say.

Saving you the bother of scrolling

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Hmmm. There enough black folk and liberal Republicans in the West?

Maybe not, but there are plenty of Hispanics.

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
The writer also makes the unpopular, but possibly accurate, point that older guys dating much younger girls wasn't such a big thing back then.

"Dating" is an interesting euphemism to use for some of the accusations against Moore. In fact, using that term instead of "sexually preying on" or similar seems to be doing a lot of the behind-the-scenes work in that argument.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Brenda Clough
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Christianity Today mourns the terrible damage that these campaigns are doing to the faith and devotes much wordage to the meanness of those awful librul Christians, insisting upon defending women, children and the oppressed. Why cannot they be kinder to Roy Moore supporters, whose only desire is to increase the number of abusers of women in Washington DC?

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
It's worth saying that that mainstay of the vote was the overwhelming number of black voters who turned out for Jones.

And that juuuuust enough white folk then voted Dem or a write-in to swing it.

Well done, white people! [Disappointed]

Yeah. Though it is good he lost, it is sad that it was by so small a margin.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

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Brenda Clough
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That he won at all, in ruby-red Alabama, is an astonishment and a wonder. They haven't voted for a Democrat in a generation. And he won by a big enough margin that there can't be an automatic recount. (I think if you win by less than 1% they have to recount.) If Moore wants a recount, he has to pay for it. And, naturally, he has to pay his lawyers (including the Jewish one! all my Jewish friends are wishing this unknown solon a happy Hannukah) if he wants to litigate.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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la vie en rouge
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Still it bothers me that he refused to concede. Reminds me of someone (who in the end didn’t lose and wasn’t put to the point).

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
The writer also makes the unpopular, but possibly accurate, point that older guys dating much younger girls wasn't such a big thing back then.

"Dating" is an interesting euphemism to use for some of the accusations against Moore. In fact, using that term instead of "sexually preying on" or similar seems to be doing a lot of the behind-the-scenes work in that argument.
Fair point. And one that I should have picked up. Thanks for the correction.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
That he won at all, in ruby-red Alabama, is an astonishment and a wonder. They haven't voted for a Democrat in a generation.

The last Democrat Alabama elected to the U.S. Senate was Richard Shelby in 1992. Shelby is still in the Senate but he's a Republican these days.

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
And he won by a big enough margin that there can't be an automatic recount. (I think if you win by less than 1% they have to recount.)

0.5 percentage points, actually.

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Still it bothers me that he refused to concede. Reminds me of someone (who in the end didn’t lose and wasn’t put to the point).

Andy Richter put it thusly:

quote:
Roy Moore not conceding reminds me of something I’ve noticed: a certain kind of white man, having grown used to creating realities to his liking, when confronted with a reality not to his liking tantrums like a goddamned baby


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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
And he won by a big enough margin that there can't be an automatic recount. (I think if you win by less than 1% they have to recount.) If Moore wants a recount, he has to pay for it.

According to the Guardian, the State Supreme Court had just with remarkable haste overruled a judgement calling for voting records to be preserved to facilitate a recount if one were called for. That was at a stage when it was expected that Moore would probably win and any recount would be called for by the Democrats.
Funny how things work out.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Brenda Clough
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According to the Post 80% of white evangelicals voted for Moore. A quote:

Political partisanship and a disdain for outsiders have become unifying driving factors for white evangelicals instead of the gospel of Jesus Christ, said Birmingham-based Collin Hansen, editorial director for the Gospel Coalition, a network popular among conservative evangelicals.

“You could preach almost any Trinitarian heresy and not one person is going to notice it,” Hansen said. “If you touch on the political things on things they care about like gun control or racism, they’ll have your head.”

Recent political changes, Hansen said, have exposed “the moral and theological rot” in the evangelical church. “There will not be a coherent evangelical movement to emerge from this political season,” Hansen said.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
According to the Post 80% of white evangelicals voted for Moore.

Well, 80% of the white evangelicals who voted cast their ballot for Moore. That's not quite the same thing. Turnout seems to have been key to this election. For reference, going by the (non-final) vote totals over at CNN Doug Jones got 92% of the number of votes that were cast for Hillary Clinton in Alabama in 2016, which is pretty phenomenal for a special election. Roy Moore got 49% of the vote that Donald Trump received in Alabama last year. As a rough guide, it seems like about half of last year's Trump voters simply decided to sit out this election.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Soror Magna
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From the Post article linked above:

quote:
For decades, Moore rose to national prominence by painting a portrait of Christianity under attack. He espouses the view that America should ultimately be governed by “biblical law.” Under Moore, the law would punish homosexuality. He has expressed fear that sharia law is being imposed “in Illinois, Indiana — up there. I don’t know.”
OK, do Moore's supporters really not understand that biblical law is Christian sharia law? Whatever happened to the Establishment Clause? Are they so obsessed with the 2nd Amendment that they've forgotten about the 1st? Is this Christian nationalism a states' rights thing?

In the USA, officials may place their hand on the Bible to take the oath of office, but they are swearing to uphold the Constitution, not the Bible. These people are fundamentally opposed to one of the founding principles of their country. They don't need engagement, they need fucking civics lessons. And their kids need better textbooks.

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

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Crœsos
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Someone divided up last night Senate special election numbers by congressional district and finds that despite winning the most votes, Democrats would only win 1 out of Alabama's 7 House seats. "That's how gerrymandered Alabama is."

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Brenda Clough
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Moore famously has ignored that clause in the Constitution. He's the one, remember, tossed out of the judiciary for insisting on a large Ten Commandments stone in the courthouse.

There is a very funny video around of one of his minions on TV being interviewed by CNN. The fellow's jaw drops open when the reporter tells him that it is not law that you are sworn in on a Bible, that other volumes (the book of Mormon, the Koran) are allowable. It is clearly the first time the notion has ever been presented to him and he is dumbstruck.

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Og, King of Bashan

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# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
OK, do Moore's supporters really not understand that biblical law is Christian sharia law?

Apples to oranges. Biblical law was handed down from God, Sharia law wasn't.

(Or so I imagine the answer would go.)

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There is a very funny video around of one of his minions on TV being interviewed by CNN. The fellow's jaw drops open when the reporter tells him that it is not law that you are sworn in on a Bible, that other volumes (the book of Mormon, the Koran) are allowable. It is clearly the first time the notion has ever been presented to him and he is dumbstruck.

*Obnoxious pedant alert!!!*

I think that most LDS government officials are sworn in using the Bible.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
OK, do Moore's supporters really not understand that biblical law is Christian sharia law?

Apples to oranges. Biblical law was handed down from God, Sharia law wasn't.

(Or so I imagine the answer would go.)

Thing is, much of Shariah is derived from the Bible. That's why the nastier ends of both are so alike.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
OK, do Moore's supporters really not understand that biblical law is Christian sharia law?

Apples to oranges. Biblical law was handed down from God, Sharia law wasn't.

(Or so I imagine the answer would go.)

I suppose if the answerer were intellectually capable of understanding the comparison is actually apples to apples, there would be fewer problems.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There is a very funny video around of one of his minions on TV being interviewed by CNN.

Happy to oblige

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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You gotta love these family values villains. They got standards. It's not okay to do an abortion. But screwing children, well that's another matter, after all Joseph was screwing Mary, oh jeez, wrong example. They mean more in Numbers 31:17 etc:
quote:
Now therefore kill every boy, and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse with a man. 20 But all the young women who have not had sexual intercourse with a man will be yours.
Well you know: spare the lambs, spoil the goats, and do the girls.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
It's worth saying that that mainstay of the vote was the overwhelming number of black voters who turned out for Jones.

Interestingly, a black pastor and activist from the SF Bay Area went there to be part of a team to defeat Moore. Heard him on NPR. I'm a little surprised that anyone there would be interested in what someone from here had to say...but maybe African-Americans in Alabama are more open that way.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Palimpsest
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# 16772

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Which has caused some of my lefty friends to quip, "we just need some Senator's son to come out as poor and homeless..."


Well the current crisis in much of Americal is the opioid addiction epidemice afflicting poor white people. Not many cared when it was a crack epidemic of poor black addicts.
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Timothy the Obscure

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American evangelical Christianity (the Southern version,at any rate, which is the version that's taken over the whole country) was always at the root a rural white identity movement. It's not theology, really--I've worked with a lot of these folks in therapy, and I know more about their supposed theology than they do. Being a "Bible-believing, Spirit-filled Christian" is entirely about Us vs. Them.
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Martin60
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# 368

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The Republicans for Doug Jones FB page has 2000 likes and followers.

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Love wins

Posts: 17008 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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Mrs. Moore mentioned having rabbis as friends. So Devra First, of the Boston Globe, set out to find them.
[Big Grin]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18177 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
American evangelical Christianity (the Southern version,at any rate, which is the version that's taken over the whole country) was always at the root a rural white identity movement. It's not theology, really--I've worked with a lot of these folks in therapy, and I know more about their supposed theology than they do. Being a "Bible-believing, Spirit-filled Christian" is entirely about Us vs. Them.

I find this very interesting, as my own observation as a therapist is that people commonly have unseen motivations, or you might say, unknown. I'm not surprised if some Christians are into Us/Them, but then probably many people are. Oh the joys of the unconscious, or the black lagoon.

I was trying to remember one of those ghastly Freudian phrases, 'reaction formation', ('Reaktionsbildung'), which sort of means that we outwardly put on a mask which contradicts our inner thoughts. Freud somewhere has a gruesome quote about Christians advocating universal love, which guarantees conflict. Cynical, moi?

[ 14. December 2017, 10:52: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]

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the main fear that flat-earthers face is sphere itself.

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Wesley J

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# 6075

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Mrs. Moore mentioned having rabbis as friends. [...]

I read that as 'rabbits'. - Which might perhaps explain his urges?

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Boogie

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# 13538

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This horrible man clearly thinks he stands up for morality in the US. Which is utterly shocking when you think of the anti-everything platform he stood on.

[Roll Eyes] [Frown]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
This horrible man clearly thinks he stands up for morality in the US. Which is utterly shocking when you think of the anti-everything platform he stood on.

Possibly, but then he came to religion as an adult, and some of his pronouncements make it sound like it functions as a locus of power rather than an attempt at genuine morality.
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Anglican_Brat
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# 12349

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Moore seems to share Trump's narcissism. It seems that Moore sees himself as infallible, whether it is maintaining the Ten Commandments stone in his court house or refusing to accept judgments from appeals courts overturning his decisions, or even now, refusing to concede.

Moore seems to see himself as above the law, thank you Alabama for bringing him down.

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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You would have to work with both hands to construct a better antithesis to Jesus than Moore. (Or Crooked Don.)

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
Moore seems to share Trump's narcissism. It seems that Moore sees himself as infallible, whether it is maintaining the Ten Commandments stone in his court house or refusing to accept judgments from appeals courts overturning his decisions, or even now, refusing to concede.

Moore seems to see himself as above the law, thank you Alabama for bringing him down.

No. Thank you black women of Alabama. Black people, despite laws making it difficult to vote, turned out to send him off. And still the fucker made a strong showing.
So, no, Alabama does not get a moment in the sun over this.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17111 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
American evangelical Christianity (the Southern version,at any rate, which is the version that's taken over the whole country) was always at the root a rural white identity movement. It's not theology, really--I've worked with a lot of these folks in therapy, and I know more about their supposed theology than they do. Being a "Bible-believing, Spirit-filled Christian" is entirely about Us vs. Them.

I find this very interesting, as my own observation as a therapist is that people commonly have unseen motivations, or you might say, unknown. I'm not surprised if some Christians are into Us/Them, but then probably many people are. Oh the joys of the unconscious, or the black lagoon.

I was trying to remember one of those ghastly Freudian phrases, 'reaction formation', ('Reaktionsbildung'), which sort of means that we outwardly put on a mask which contradicts our inner thoughts. Freud somewhere has a gruesome quote about Christians advocating universal love, which guarantees conflict. Cynical, moi?

Freud had some weird ideas, but also some helpful ones.
  • That aggression and sex are closely linked.
  • That religion is not required to be crazy but it certainly helps.
  • That many (he'd say most) people do not have very much true self knowledge.
  • That the ancient Greeks had worked out most of the stories and themes of human lives
(okay I made some of that up, a bit)

I'm not sure we can allow unconscious defence mechanisms to be the explanation for people who should know better: they're not entitled to that. There is a difference between being uninformed or unknowledgeable about yourself and being manipulative, or put more plainly, between stupidity and evil. Of course some people are both, though I don't think the man whose name appears in the thread title nor his #1 fan are stupid.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11182 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Gramps49
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# 16378

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Fall out from the Roy Moore debacle:
Two federal district judge nominations by Trump have been dropped.

The individual that was nominated to be the chemical czar in the EPA--a man who constantly fought the EPA on chemical regulations has now lost the support of the majority of the Senate, though his name has not been withdrawn yet.

At least four Republican Senators have now said they will not support it as written. Count McCain, who is hospitalized, and may not be able to vote, and the Tax Bill is dead. Only three Republican voting against it will kill it.

And now the news is out that Speaker Paul Ryan will not run for re-election in 2018. He plans on retiring.

Posts: 2067 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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I wonder if Ryan is a) thinking there may be 2 empty offices above him, and succession will move him into the Oval Office; b) thinking of putting together an exploratory committee for actually running for president; or c) running away screaming?

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18177 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gramps49
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# 16378

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Commentators are saying Ryan is looking at running for President in 2020 and it would not look good if he had lost his race for his seat in Congress.


He is facing some pretty stiff opposition in his district.

I am opting for running away screaming. He is such a LOSER (to co-opt a certain person).

Posts: 2067 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged



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