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Source: (consider it) Thread: Rolyn: Traitorous to the cause of democracy
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The government (post-Brexit) can put up all sorts of immigration restrictions to meet some bonkers arbitrary net migration goal without abusing the human rights of people who have already legally settled in this country.

They can put up plenty of restrictions but I really doubt it will satisfy the Brexiteers, most of whom regard human rights as a load of lefty liberal nonsense.
Then, they can burn in Hell. Both the Brexiteers willing to trample over human rights, and the government too cowardly to stand up to them (or, even worse, actually agreeing with them).

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All I want for Christmas is EU

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Doc Tor
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quote:
Originally posted by M.:
Thank you Doc Tor. The last I heard, no immigrants already legally here were threatened with deportation when we leave the EU. I must have missed something, which is altogether possible.

By referring to a threat of deportation hanging over her head, you made it sound imminent. It was a genuine question.

M.

And it was a genuine answer.

If you knew you had to leave Surrey in two years, would you bother putting down lots of roots, buying a house, starting a family, applying for that promotion?

Of course it's imminent. The effects are now. Seriously, how insular do you have to be not to have realised this? I've no particular wish to pick a fight with you (no matter how cathartic it might be), but This Is What Brexit Means to 3 million people who live in this country.

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Forward the New Republic

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rolyn
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Brexit isn't running the Country.
Maybe a useful exercise for Pollsters who are clearly crap at predicting the outcome of people's voting persuasion would be to question those who voted Leave in retrospect. How great a proportion of these people would be prepared to vote in a hard right regime?

Not an overwhelming number is my guess.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Alan Cresswell

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# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Brexit isn't running the Country.

Brexit is ruining the country.

quote:
Maybe a useful exercise for Pollsters who are clearly crap at predicting the outcome of people's voting persuasion would be to question those who voted Leave in retrospect. How great a proportion of these people would be prepared to vote in a hard right regime?

Not an overwhelming number is my guess.

Well, maybe. But, that doesn't alter the fact that voting Leave has resulted in a hard right regime. Admittedly, a rabble - but they had limited talent to choose from, merely those Tories who had been elected in 2015.

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All I want for Christmas is EU

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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Oh rolyn, do you not understand how you have given wings to the worst of ideas and fallen angels? Your only excuse could be strength in numbers and of ignorance. None of which escapes the scythe.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Luigi
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Brexit isn't running the Country.
Maybe a useful exercise for Pollsters who are clearly crap at predicting the outcome of people's voting persuasion would be to question those who voted Leave in retrospect. How great a proportion of these people would be prepared to vote in a hard right regime?

Not an overwhelming number is my guess.

As Alan mentioned the polls are much closer than sometimes claimed. UK election: spot on for UKIP, LibDems, Greens and SNP pretty damn close. Conservatives 4% low, Labour 3% high. I've never met anyone close to that accurate.

Brexit the pollsters were consistently showing it was too close to call with leave in the lead in the majority of polls with a week to go. The city made a much bigger mistake - they assumed there'd be a swing back to the status quo in the final week as happened in the Scottish Referendum - this didn't happen.

US - again the polls were effectively within 3% of the final result. The political scientists who know about these things were also saying it was too close to call. That 3% was of course decisive - wouldn't have been regarded as significant if one side won by 7% instead of a predicted 4%.

Yes pollsters have normally done better in the past but that doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing. Or that they are idiots.

[ 14. November 2016, 21:48: Message edited by: Luigi ]

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SvitlanaV2
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Mrs May was hardly a cheerleader for Brexit during the referendum, so it seems odd to call her 'hard right' at this point. She's a politician - she says what she thinks people want to hear.

Brexit hasn't happened yet, so we don't know how it's going to 'ruin' the country. There will be a degree of uncertainty until a final agreement is reached, and our politicians should be saying more to address people's concerns. But if we don't want Britain to be ruined then emitting a whole bunch of negative messages 24/7 is a strange way of going about it. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy!

As for the recent racist incidents, they're bloody awful, but let's not kid ourselves; black and brown people were being vilified before the referendum. Racism never went away, and the idea that Britain was some sort of wonderful multiracial paradise beforehand is laughable. The sudden outburst of sanctimony from some quarters is not impressive.

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Alan Cresswell

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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Mrs May was hardly a cheerleader for Brexit during the referendum, so it seems odd to call her 'hard right' at this point. She's a politician - she says what she thinks people want to hear.

I admit she's been effectively silent on what she will be aiming for, the best we've got is the meaningless "Brexit means Brexit". Which does mean that we're left with nothing to say she's not going to follow the nuttier far-right agenda of the more vocal Brexiteers - stringent controls on immigration for example, and her reluctance to even guarantee that people currently living in the UK will be able to stay strongly suggests that she's bought the xenophobic nonsense of UKIP.

If she thinks that's what people voted for, then she's a loony. The majority wanted something else on June 23rd.

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All I want for Christmas is EU

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Mrs May was hardly a cheerleader for Brexit during the referendum, so it seems odd to call her 'hard right' at this point. She's a politician - she says what she thinks people want to hear.

On brexit sure, because she tended towards the free-market side of the Tory party. In general she had a track record of being fairly authoritarian.

quote:

Racism never went away, and the idea that Britain was some sort of wonderful multiracial paradise beforehand is laughable. The sudden outburst of sanctimony from some quarters is not impressive.

The vote gave made some people feel that it was more acceptable to give voice to their racism than it had been.
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mdijon
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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
As for the recent racist incidents, they're bloody awful, but let's not kid ourselves; black and brown people were being vilified before the referendum. Racism never went away, and the idea that Britain was some sort of wonderful multiracial paradise beforehand is laughable. The sudden outburst of sanctimony from some quarters is not impressive.

Who needed to argue multiracial paradise when they decried racist attacks? Anyone on this thread?

And decrying racist attacks is sanctimony? Would you be happier if we ignored them to avoid giving the impression that things weren't bad before?

I have no idea what you are on.

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lilBuddha
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I do not get the sanctimony comment at all. And no one, least of all brown folk, thought racism was gone. The gleeful and open regression is disheartening. Not entirely surprising, but disheartening.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
As for the recent racist incidents, they're bloody awful, but let's not kid ourselves; black and brown people were being vilified before the referendum. Racism never went away, and the idea that Britain was some sort of wonderful multiracial paradise beforehand is laughable. The sudden outburst of sanctimony from some quarters is not impressive.

I don't even know where to start with this. Inexplicably, we live in the same country, and yet - I don't know why, maybe where we live or the friends we have - we seem to be inhabiting two parallel worlds.

I live in a world where racism is still bad and resisting that shit every day is a moral duty. How is it where you are?

[ 15. November 2016, 07:40: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]

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Forward the New Republic

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mr cheesy
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Can it be that SvitlanaV2 is saying/suggesting it is wrong to put responsibility for the racism at the door of Leave voters?

If so, I'm not sure sanctimony is the right word - unless SvitlanaV2 is suggesting that Remain voters are being smug about having "voted the right way".

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arse

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mdijon
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If you knew you had to leave Surrey in two years, would you bother putting down lots of roots, buying a house, starting a family, applying for that promotion?

If I knew I had to leave in two years I would set about making a new life in Poland. That would be painful, but in some ways better than hanging on with it being unclear whether I might have to leave in two years. I'm not going to desert all I have built up in terms of professional life, roots, community and family living unless I really know I have to, on the other hand I'm likely to go slow on various aspects of it without certainty.

And at the moment, as I understand it, there is zero certainty.

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Boogie

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My son has applied for German citizenship. No way he wants to return to the UK.

Who can blame him?

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Can it be that SvitlanaV2 is saying/suggesting it is wrong to put responsibility for the racism at the door of Leave voters?

If so, I'm not sure sanctimony is the right word - unless SvitlanaV2 is suggesting that Remain voters are being smug about having "voted the right way".

I think that "moral fortitude"="sanctimony" in Orwellian Newspeak.

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Forward the New Republic

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My son has applied for German citizenship. No way he wants to return to the UK.

Who can blame him?

From what my German friends tell me, next year (when there is a general election) could be interesting. I don't wish for another Brexit or Trump-style victory, but I'm hearing that such things are not impossible in Germany as well as the Netherlands, France etc.

The TL;DR version being that Germany might not be the haven of tolerance everyone currently thinks it is for much longer.

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arse

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BroJames
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Although, at the moment, Germany looks as though it will still remain in the EU. If Germany comes out of the EU he won't be worse off, and if it remains in, he will continue to enjoy the benefits of EU citizenship.
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lowlands_boy
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My son has applied for German citizenship. No way he wants to return to the UK.

Who can blame him?

From what my German friends tell me, next year (when there is a general election) could be interesting. I don't wish for another Brexit or Trump-style victory, but I'm hearing that such things are not impossible in Germany as well as the Netherlands, France etc.

The TL;DR version being that Germany might not be the haven of tolerance everyone currently thinks it is for much longer.

My Dutch friends and colleagues seem to think that in the Netherlands, whatever the sentiment amounts to, the electoral tendencies will never amount to any of these extremists getting their hands on the levers of power.

Le-Pen seems keen to capitalise on Trump's victory, and on Brexit though.

Not very hellish is it, this thread....

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I thought I should update my signature line....

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SvitlanaV2
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:


I live in a world where racism is still bad and resisting that shit every day is a moral duty. How is it where you are?

I think resisting racism is a moral duty too. What I'm not keen on is this idea that we were all hunky-dory until the referendum turned us into a nation of horrid people.

Where I live there is a lot of segregation. Being in the EU hasn't prevented that. I hope Brexit will provide the opportunity to face the issue openly. It won't happen automatically; there's a lot of work to do, among racists and everyone else.

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Callan
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
As I understand it, all 54 of the SNP MPs voted Remain (although Mhairi Black is on record as saying there was an element of holding her nose involved, see here). That article quotes Jim Sillars (former Govan MP and SNP grandee), who was always the voice of SNP opposition to Remain, as stating that there were around 5 or 6 MSPs who voted Leave. Polling before and after the vote suggested that close to 25% of SNP membership were in favour of Leave (similar to the number of Labour supporters voting for Leave, according to polls post-referendum).

I have no quarrel with reluctant remainers. They voted in the national interest with the rest of us.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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Doc Tor
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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
What I'm not keen on is this idea that we were all hunky-dory until the referendum turned us into a nation of horrid people.

Where did you get this straw man from? Is it left over from bonfire night? Literally no one is arguing this.

FFS listen to black and brown people, and those who don't have Proper English Accents™. They are completely aware that it wasn't 'all hunky-dory' before. But they are saying that since the referendum, racist white people think they've a green light to just be openly and shamelessly shitty in public and that every other white person won't lift a finger to help.

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Forward the New Republic

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SvitlanaV2
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I'm one of those people myself. And I'm saying that racism existed before the referendum. Glad you agree with that.

I did fear that incidents of racist incidents might rise after a vote for Brexit. In some places they have, although not so much in my city. IMO what these incidents show is that we need to deal with the sociological causes of racism and the lack of faith in the EU project rather than sweeping it all under the carpet of false unity.

Obviously, it's true that some parts of the country are more unified than others. How lucky they are.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
I have no quarrel with reluctant remainers. They voted in the national interest with the rest of us.

I have no quarrel with anyone who weighed the pro's and con's of EU membership and voted accordingly (although I wonder how they managed to work out the pro's and con's of leaving when no-one had bothered to define what Leave would be seeking). Even those who chose to vote in a different manner to me.

The people I do take issue with are:

a) those who decided to vote based on issues not related to the EU - including, and perhaps especially, those who voted as a protest against the government or the political system.

b) those who decided that the way to get people to vote for their position was to ignore facts and evidence and just spread a load of lies and scare stories (and, that includes some of the Remain side as well, I regret to say).

c) those who have taken the Leave vote to mean they have a licence to harass, intimidate, assault and be generally shitty to other people. Which has made a bad situation worse.

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All I want for Christmas is EU

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Ariel
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If you knew you had to leave Surrey in two years, would you bother putting down lots of roots, buying a house, starting a family, applying for that promotion?

I would certainly apply for that promotion, and I might well buy a house (if it could be done outright) as a view to both of these increasing my material worth and career prospects, and having more money to take elsewhere at the end of those two years.

In a two-year span I’d look to getting as much out of the place in other ways as I could so yes, I would want to make friends and enjoy the time here while I could. Not sure about starting a family but I wouldn’t rule it out. After all, nothing has definitely been said about deporting anybody and at the end of those two years you either leave with more money and better career prospects than you had at the outset, or you get to stay and enjoy them. Just living on the eve of departure for two years gets you nowhere. I've done that: it turned into over a decade.

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Doc Tor
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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I'm one of those people myself. And I'm saying that racism existed before the referendum. Glad you agree with that.

I did fear that incidents of racist incidents might rise after a vote for Brexit. In some places they have, although not so much in my city. IMO what these incidents show is that we need to deal with the sociological causes of racism and the lack of faith in the EU project rather than sweeping it all under the carpet of false unity.

Obviously, it's true that some parts of the country are more unified than others. How lucky they are.

So we've gone from Straw Men to Stating The Bleedin Obvious.

Well done. Progress of sorts. You might contribute something meaningful to this thread any day now.

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Forward the New Republic

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SvitlanaV2
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No, I don't think I'll contribute much that's useful to this thread. I don't live in the kind of cosy environment where the Brexit vote rudely disturbed some sort of equilibrium, so what I have to say doesn't really fit in here.
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SvitlanaV2
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My son has applied for German citizenship. No way he wants to return to the UK.

Who can blame him?

I think this is right and good. Germany is where he lives and where he feels most at home. The Germans were always highly committed to the EU project.
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mdijon
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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
No, I don't think I'll contribute much that's useful to this thread. I don't live in the kind of cosy environment where the Brexit vote rudely disturbed some sort of equilibrium, so what I have to say doesn't really fit in here.

Back to straw men. Find one post on this thread that implies there was a cosy environment before Brexit. Then reflect on why you need straw men.

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I don't live in the kind of cosy environment where the Brexit vote rudely disturbed some sort of equilibrium, so what I have to say doesn't really fit in here.

[Roll Eyes] there are plenty of places which weren't particularly cosy, which have still been made worse by Brexit.
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Callan
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Saying that things have got worse does not imply that they were perfectly satisfactory to start with. Merely that they were better than they are now. I think, for example, that Boris Johnson is a worse Foreign Secretary than David Miliband. It does not follow that I thought Mr Miliband was a good one.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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mdijon
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This shouldn't be difficult. A>B does not imply an absolute value of A. Unless I missed someone saying that A was really very good and cosy I don't see the justification.

[ 15. November 2016, 17:14: Message edited by: mdijon ]

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
Thank you Doc Tor. The last I heard, no immigrants already legally here were threatened with deportation when we leave the EU. I must have missed something, which is altogether possible.

By referring to a threat of deportation hanging over her head, you made it sound imminent. It was a genuine question.

M.

And it was a genuine answer.

If you knew you had to leave Surrey in two years, would you bother putting down lots of roots, buying a house, starting a family, applying for that promotion?

Of course it's imminent. The effects are now. Seriously, how insular do you have to be not to have realised this? I've no particular wish to pick a fight with you (no matter how cathartic it might be), but This Is What Brexit Means to 3 million people who live in this country.

It’s not just EU migrants living here. My employer has its European HQ in the UK because the UK was part of the EU and it can access the Single Market for Services. While it’s still likely to have a UK entity after Brexit, the size and shape of that entity will depend on what agreement the UK and the EU manage to cobble together.

Or, to put it bluntly, there are a lot of people who don’t know if they will have a job in a few years’ time.

You can’t really plan for that. You just hope it’s not you or, if it is, you can find another job elsewhere. Many of us don’t have a convenient European relative or qualification we can pull out of the bag. Sucking it up and making the best of it is the order of the day.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

Posts: 12660 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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And, there are various EU agencies in the UK as well. The biggest is the European Medicines Agency, directly employing about 800 people - indirectly many more (it's not unusual to have 100s of visitors per week, needing local hotels and restaurants, plus a large number of consultancies that work with the EMA, and pharmaceutical companies with London offices just so they're near the EMA, various companies with contracts for security, cleaning, catering etc). All of those jobs will relocate when the EMA moves - and, it probably won't be easy for all the UK staff to move with them.

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All I want for Christmas is EU

Posts: 32194 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My son has applied for German citizenship. No way he wants to return to the UK.

Who can blame him?

I think this is right and good. Germany is where he lives and where he feels most at home. The Germans were always highly committed to the EU project.
I always said we could learn a lot from the seemingly irrepressible Germany Nation. Fighting it on two occasions last Century did this Country a whole heap of no good at all, both economically and psychologically.
In fact I believe the shadow of those conflicts was partly responsible for fuelling Brexit even after 70 years. That, and island mentality.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Anglican't
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# 15292

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
And, there are various EU agencies in the UK as well. The biggest is the European Medicines Agency, directly employing about 800 people - indirectly many more (it's not unusual to have 100s of visitors per week, needing local hotels and restaurants,

The EMA is based in Canary Wharf, where about 100,000 people work. I'm sure the Docklands hotel and restaurant industry will survive the relocation of the EMA, if it does indeed relocate. And if it does, it'll vacate some prime London offices which will no doubt be occupied by a business which attracts visitors who want a slap-up lunch from time to time. The Jamies Italian outside the EMA's HQ existed a long time before the EMA moved in. I'm sure it'll still be there in years to come.
Posts: 3594 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Good for Canary Wharf, able to absorb the loss of a few thousand highly skilled, professional jobs. Replace them with more bankers, eh? Oh, except that someone setting up a new office would be better off somewhere where the financial sector is supported - Frankfurt is probably a good choice.

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All I want for Christmas is EU

Posts: 32194 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anglican't
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# 15292

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Well today Google announced it's setting up a new HQ in King's Cross, bringing about £1bn of investment. Let's see what the future holds. I think it could be quite bright...
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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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But that is a stupid statement. "Oh look at this anomalous example, it proves you are wrong".
The good news is that some businesses will benefit as the declining £ brings in more tourists.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17128 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Well today Google announced it's setting up a new HQ in King's Cross, bringing about £1bn of investment. Let's see what the future holds. I think it could be quite bright...

Ooh, a £1bn investment from a company that doesn't pay its taxes. Terrific.

Meanwhile, our beloved Chancellor espies a shortfall of £84bn.

Face it, the future will only look bright if we start burning shit down. And even that's a short-term solution.

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Forward the New Republic

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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Christ, some of you fuckers are so obstinately pessimistic I swear you want the country to fail just so you can say you told us so.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29953 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Look at this way. If I'm a pessimist, I'm always open to be happily wrong. If I'm an optimist, I'm always open to disappointment.

So, yes. I think we're fucked in the short-to-medium term. And if, by some miracle, we're not, I've lost nothing.

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 8931 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stercus Tauri
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# 16668

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There's a simple cure for this tedious discussion

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

Posts: 891 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
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# 14333

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Optimists are positive, right? So I am an optimist because I am positive we are all fucked.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17128 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Christ, some of you fuckers are so obstinately pessimistic I swear you want the country to fail just so you can say you told us so.

I just want the Brexit negotiations and the government to fail. That will be a Good Thing for Britain, the British and Europe as a whole.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24055 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
There's a simple cure for this tedious discussion

Reading some other thread?

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63203 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Clearly finding a thread to be tedious, the thing to do is to continue reading. Rather than the sensible thing of voting to read a thread you find interesting, you need to register a protest vote against the tedium on the Ship by continuing to read stuff you find boring.

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All I want for Christmas is EU

Posts: 32194 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Christ, some of you fuckers are so obstinately pessimistic I swear you want the country to fail just so you can say you told us so.

I think you read as pessimism what many of us see as realism and many of us read your optimism as living in cloud cuckoo land.

If indeed we were proved wrong in this, by an agreement which preserved good trading and political relationships with the 27, as well as giving us a restored sovereignty, independent control of our borders and immigration, and improved trading terms outside the EU, we'd all cheer. But in both process and realpolitik terms that just looks like nonsense. As others in Europe keep telling us, it's not going to happen.

The assertions that 'Brexit means Brexit' and 'I am determined to make a success of this' will preserve some kind of fragile Tory unity for a little while longer. Until reality bites.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 20939 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Callan
Shipmate
# 525

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Well today Google announced it's setting up a new HQ in King's Cross, bringing about £1bn of investment. Let's see what the future holds. I think it could be quite bright...

Ooh, a £1bn investment from a company that doesn't pay its taxes. Terrific.

Meanwhile, our beloved Chancellor espies a shortfall of £84bn.

Face it, the future will only look bright if we start burning shit down. And even that's a short-term solution.

In any event it's been on the cards since 2013. So it's a case of "Capital Flight After Brexit Overstated" not "Behold Brexit Brings Us Shiny New Things!"

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 9705 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Christ, some of you fuckers are so obstinately pessimistic I swear you want the country to fail just so you can say you told us so.

Further to this:

Do I want the country to fail? No.

Do I expect the country to fail? Yes.

Why? Because my reasoned opinion, backed by economic data, a passing knowledge of EU treaties and a decent grasp of socio-political interactions, lead me to believe that voting to Remain in the EU was, frankly, the only sensible decision to make, and to choose otherwise was to court disaster.

Given that many of the problems flagged up by Remain before the vote are slowly, inexorably, coming to pass, I can't see any problem with the way I voted.

Unlike many other situations, however, I don't get to sit on the sidelines and stay unaffected by the sucking pool of shit that will eventually engulf all but the rich. Unless my circumstances change dramatically, I'm circling the same drain as everybody else.

I am, however, going to go down swinging.

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 8931 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged



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