homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | Register | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Special interest discussion   » Ecclesiantics   » Glitter and Ash Wednesday.

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.    
Source: (consider it) Thread: Glitter and Ash Wednesday.
leo
Shipmate
# 1458

 - Posted      Profile for leo   Author's homepage   Email leo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have only just discovered this. Has anyone experienced it?

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23018 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
No, and I've not heard of it before, either. Like the idea, though!

It'll be interesting to hear if any churches in the UK did it, though I suspect we may have been made aware of it by the right-wing press if it had happened...

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8673 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The British right wing press might be interested in some dramatic photos of young people with glittering faces, but as a 'story', it would be difficult for them to cover.

Few readers would know anything about Ash Wednesday, and I'm not sure they'd really be interested in learning about its religious significance. The journalists might want to stir up a little righteous indignation about 'queer-friendly' rituals in church, but there are already queer-friendly churches around, and their gestures aren't particularly newsworthy. (Maybe there were more news articles on this subject a couple of decades ago.)

From what I see online, many Brits who are right wing already believe (rightly or wrongly) that the CofE is an essentially left wing, socially liberal institution. Glitter on the faces of a few worshippers in London or Brighton, etc., wouldn't change that narrative.

Now, if the RCs started doing it up North that would be another matter, I think....

Posts: 6338 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
Roman Cataholic
Apprentice
# 18736

 - Posted      Profile for Roman Cataholic   Email Roman Cataholic   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
ugh.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2017  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, that's me duly put in my place.

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8673 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It's just a point of view! You can disagree if you like.
Posts: 6338 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

 - Posted      Profile for Leorning Cniht   Email Leorning Cniht   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I know someone who has done it. I'm not terribly convinced by glitter as an act of penitence, and I'm not a fan of modifying symbols to say "I'm not that kind of Christian". I am reminded of a passage in one of Lois Bujold's books, in the context of a civil war, when she has Lord Vorkosigan say "You already have a uniform, issued to you by the Emperor. That's who you're fighting for. Let the traitors modify their uniforms."
Posts: 4744 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
Roman Cataholic
Apprentice
# 18736

 - Posted      Profile for Roman Cataholic   Email Roman Cataholic   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I say 'ugh' because it places individualism over the collective. Ash Wednesday is about a collective rite of penitence, much in the way that Yom Kippur is observed in the Jewish tradition.
It's not really a time to emphasise LGBTQ+ fabulousness, but a time to recognise the sinfulness of all people. LGBTQ+ people are not exempt from this. LGBTQ+ are sinners and need to repent of their sins. As are the rest of humanity, Cis, Hetero, whatever.
The ashes are a place of levelling. We are all sinners and need to repent of our sins. The act is observed by all and is observed in much the same way as it was in our pre-Christian origins.

Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2017  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

 - Posted      Profile for Rossweisse     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Roman Cataholic:
I say 'ugh' because it places individualism over the collective....It's not really a time to emphasise LGBTQ+ fabulousness, but a time to recognise the sinfulness of all people....

Ahh-men. There are many times and places in which glitter may be appropriate; a day of penance is not among them.

--------------------
I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 14607 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

 - Posted      Profile for Lamb Chopped   Email Lamb Chopped   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
IMHO Lent is not about "look at me." Glitter is, and that's a problem.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 19956 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322

 - Posted      Profile for Enoch   Email Enoch   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
IMHO Lent is not about "look at me." Glitter is, and that's a problem.

Thank you for that Lamb Chopped. I felt instinctively underwhelmed by the whole idea. I thought it was just prejudice and dislike of innovation on my part. So I wasn't going to say anything. What you have said has crystallised why I think this is a bad idea. If it were to be generally proposed, I'd oppose it.

[ 13. August 2017, 21:38: Message edited by: Enoch ]

--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

Posts: 7233 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349

 - Posted      Profile for Anglican_Brat   Email Anglican_Brat   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think using Ash Wednesday as an opportunity for the Church to repent of heterosexism and homophobia would be more meaningful.

--------------------
It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

Posts: 4228 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Roman Cataholic
Apprentice
# 18736

 - Posted      Profile for Roman Cataholic   Email Roman Cataholic   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I think using Ash Wednesday as an opportunity for the Church to repent of heterosexism and homophobia would be more meaningful.

Why do LGBTQ+ people have to be the focus on Ash Wednesday? Surely they can have their own day, maybe the Sunday of Pride Weekend?
In Ireland, the Church made a public declaration of its repentance for its involvement in the child abuse scandals. It didn't hijack a general day of repentance but did so at another time.

Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2017  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

 - Posted      Profile for Lamb Chopped   Email Lamb Chopped   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Thanks!

I'd prefer that nobody hijacked the general observances of the church for any cause, however worthy. I was royally pissed off a couple years ago when the "comfort dog ministry" preempted Pentecost. I mean, WTF?

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 19956 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
This is from the Guardian and so SFW but if you find it startling click back again. I'm afraid it is already far better known (Gwyneth Paltrow, you know) than glitter on Ash Wednesday. I so do not think churches should go there.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5355 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596

 - Posted      Profile for Knopwood   Email Knopwood   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Lordy, I'd hoped this would be forgotten by now.

FWIW, most of the comments and posts I saw at the time were by queer Christian acquaintances heaping scorn and/or ridicule on the idea. The Google Map of participating congregations made it appear to be mainly if not exclusively a US phenomenon, mostly ELCA, United Methodist, or Metropolitan Community churches.

As it happens, an eyewitness to the accidental origins of the practice has come out against its spread and development.

Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

 - Posted      Profile for Anselmina     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Roman Cataholic:

In Ireland, the Church made a public declaration of its repentance for its involvement in the child abuse scandals. It didn't hijack a general day of repentance but did so at another time.

Can a day of repentance be 'hijacked' if it involves sinners expressing remorse for their sin?

Days of repentance are there, one assumes, for precisely the purpose of expressing remorse for grievous sin, such as child sex abuse? Sure, do it whenever suits; publicly, privately whatever. But strikes me, days of repentance rather seem to be the ideal context for er... well, repenting.

Not sure about the glitter though [Paranoid] . But that's just me.

--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

Posts: 9930 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169

 - Posted      Profile for Leaf     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
While I'm in favour of a day and a ritual of repentance for homophobia, I don't think this is the day or the thing to do.

First of all, I don't want your cheap shitty non-cosmetic-grade glitter getting in my eyes.

Secondly, I'm hesitant about the idea of specific face-marking cross substances for specific sins, although I've had some fun pondering alternatives. Lard for gluttony? Lube for lust? Dust bunnies for sloth? I think ash serves perfectly well as a summary of all possible sin from which one repents.

Posts: 2750 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
What I found kind of odd was when the woman said "Glitter is not frivolous; just ask any drag queen."

I'm cool with drag, but, on a scale of gravitas running from, let's say, Archie Comics on one end to the Dead Sea Scrolls on the other, I'm pretty sure I'd put drag way toward the former. I've even heard drag queens themselves say their favorite part of the job is getting back into street clothes.

I suppose that the main point of the comment might have been just to joke about how much drag queens like glitter, rather than seriously defend the new Ash Wednesday practice, but then that just kind of makes the case that this is a silly endeavour which lends itself to trivialization. What would we think about a Catholic priest who, in defense of using actual wine in Communion, said "Hey, wine is sacred, just ask Dean Martin! Yuk yuk yuk!"

Posts: 6300 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Roman Cataholic
Apprentice
# 18736

 - Posted      Profile for Roman Cataholic   Email Roman Cataholic   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Roman Cataholic:

In Ireland, the Church made a public declaration of its repentance for its involvement in the child abuse scandals. It didn't hijack a general day of repentance but did so at another time.

Can a day of repentance be 'hijacked' if it involves sinners expressing remorse for their sin?

Days of repentance are there, one assumes, for precisely the purpose of expressing remorse for grievous sin, such as child sex abuse? Sure, do it whenever suits; publicly, privately whatever. But strikes me, days of repentance rather seem to be the ideal context for er... well, repenting.

Not sure about the glitter though [Paranoid] . But that's just me.

It depends if you see LGBT+ lifestyles as sinful or not. I am a Roman Catholic and being a faithful Catholic I believe LGBT+ lifestyles as sinful, but do not condone the oppression of LGBT+ people. The big question is whether the Church should be asking for forgiveness for the oppression of LGBT+ individuals, or if the Church is being used to promote the LGBT+ lifestyle by asking for forgiveness for promoting traditional catholic values.
Probably not a popular view on this website is it? Please don't call me to hell.

Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2017  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

 - Posted      Profile for Anselmina     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Roman Cataholic:

Probably not a popular view on this website is it? Please don't call me to hell.

Don't worry. As your post has almost nothing at all to do with the real point of this thread there's not even the temptation to take it further!

--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

Posts: 9930 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Roman Cataholic
Apprentice
# 18736

 - Posted      Profile for Roman Cataholic   Email Roman Cataholic   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Thank you.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2017  |  IP: Logged


 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
Check out Reform magazine
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
  ship of fools