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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Big Occasions in the CofE versus the ECUSA
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Then actually get over it or take it to hell.
[ 17. July 2012, 21:24: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
Because, believe it or not, I care about the American Church and would prefer that it have a future that doesn't suck.
No, I don't believe it in the least.
Big occasions are not at all indicative or emblematic of the church's future. The last installation of bishops I went to was held in a convention center and the procession of special interest groups that kicked the damned thing off took an hour, and that was only the beginning of the suck. But the two bishops suffragan have turned out to be pretty great, and the decent ceremony of the services and the good works continue at my local parish church completely unaffected by the fact that the diocese can't put on a big show to save its collective ass.
quote:
Also, because criticizing and mocking bad liturgy is fun.
You need to get out more.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
And because I missed the addition in the edit ...
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
ETA: Maybe the real problem is that the USA is a republic. It does seem that, when one gets rid of the monarch, good taste is the first thing to go.
Again, coat dresses? Please.
quote:
Even given that, however, America has suffered more than, say, France (not that the RC Church in France has uniformly high liturgical standards: far from it, although as a general rule, the liturgy improves and the music gets worse the further south one goes).
I'm about 8,000 miles away, but I can still smell the bigotry.
[ 17. July 2012, 21:38: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
And because I missed the addition in the edit ...
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
ETA: Maybe the real problem is that the USA is a republic. It does seem that, when one gets rid of the monarch, good taste is the first thing to go.
Again, coat dresses? Please.
quote:
Even given that, however, America has suffered more than, say, France (not that the RC Church in France has uniformly high liturgical standards: far from it, although as a general rule, the liturgy improves and the music gets worse the further south one goes).
I'm about 8,000 miles away, but I can still smell the bigotry.
Precisely.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
And because I missed the addition in the edit ...
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
ETA: Maybe the real problem is that the USA is a republic. It does seem that, when one gets rid of the monarch, good taste is the first thing to go.
Again, coat dresses? Please.
HM's are much nice than Frau Merkel's! Even if the Chancellor does have them in all the colours of the rainbow.
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I'm about 8,000 miles away, but I can still smell the bigotry.
My dear, were you to come closer, I can assure that you'd smell nothing other than Trumper's rose shaving soap and, on grand occasions, a dash of frankincense based eau de toilette. Well, actually, yesterday I returned from high mass smelling of the day's incense (Omani frankincense sweetened with rose and a dash of lily of the valley, it being a Marian feast). If that's the smell of bigotry, I find it suits me.
[ 17. July 2012, 21:47: Message edited by: (S)pike couchant ]
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
Yes, I was nearly feeling sorry for the poor American Episcopalians who have to worship in horrible conference centres, then I remembered that some of the worst offenders are St John the Divine and the National Cathedral, both glorious buildings that rival or most English Cathedrals in aesthetics, if obviously not in antiquity.
So stay home then.
I'm not entirely sure what about my comment deserved that response.
There seems to be a curiously knee-jerk reaction by many American Episcopalians here, who are willing to admit that the 'Diocesan Liturgies' of their branch of the Universal Church are often really rather horrible but who take some umbrage at anyone else pointing out this fairly obvious fact.
Yes, when you are part of a group, you do allow other members of your group more leeway in criticizing the group than people who are outside of the group. Look, if I am elected to go to a diocesan convention, I'm the one who has to sit through the damn bendy polls, so I get to complain more vociferously than someone who doesn't have to sit through it unless he voluntarily downloads the clip from YouTube and watches it.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Really, if you live in and love, TEC, your watchword must surely be, "This too will pass". But truly, if I didn't look at websites like this one, I'd hardly know what's going on outside the sensible places I go to (even sensible places that make summertime use of the Star Trek Canon, accompanied by completely sober ceremonial and music -- not S. Clement's Philly, BTW!). Most of TEC is liturgically good, boring, or annoying for its excessive folksiness, rather than shocking for liturgical puppetry and bendy poles.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
And because I missed the addition in the edit ...
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
ETA: Maybe the real problem is that the USA is a republic. It does seem that, when one gets rid of the monarch, good taste is the first thing to go.
Again, coat dresses? Please.
HM's are much nice than Frau Merkel's! Even if the Chancellor does have them in all the colours of the rainbow.
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I'm about 8,000 miles away, but I can still smell the bigotry.
My dear, were you to come closer, I can assure that you'd smell nothing other than Trumper's rose shaving soap and, on grand occasions, a dash of frankincense based eau de toilette. Well, actually, yesterday I returned from high mass smelling of the day's incense (Omani frankincense sweetened with rose and a dash of lily of the valley, it being a Marian feast). If that's the smell of bigotry, I find it suits me.
Rose? Heathen...
Sandalwood all the way.
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boat Boy:
Rose? Heathen...
Sandalwood all the way.
Ah, but I have sensitive skin. It matches my sensitive soul. Verily, I say, I am but a delicate hot house flower and liable to wilt and whither in the harsh winds of this bleak world. Particularly when it is made bleaker by liturgical modernists, of course. I wonder if they know how much pain and sorrow they cause me?
[ 17. July 2012, 22:18: Message edited by: (S)pike couchant ]
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
That's nice and all- But it does'nt explain This.
How much do you know about the rest of that liturgy? Compared to the Big Occasion hymn sandwiches of the Church of England, it was a Pontifical High Mass. As for liturgical vestments in various colors, one need only look as far back as the recent Jubilee liturgy at St. Paul's to see that the Church of England likewise has some confusion in this regard. The same is often true with papal masses, when clerics show up wearing the wrong thing, even though it is specifically publicized what to wear.
Well, when I mean vestments in all the liturgical colors at the same time, I meant more like
This or This. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
That's nice and all- But it does'nt explain This.
How much do you know about the rest of that liturgy? Compared to the Big Occasion hymn sandwiches of the Church of England, it was a Pontifical High Mass. As for liturgical vestments in various colors, one need only look as far back as the recent Jubilee liturgy at St. Paul's to see that the Church of England likewise has some confusion in this regard. The same is often true with papal masses, when clerics show up wearing the wrong thing, even though it is specifically publicized what to wear.
Well, when I mean vestments in all the liturgical colors at the same time, I meant more like
This or This.
Oh, my. I shan't comment. It would be, ungracious. But you'll forgive the natural impulse to ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
Fortunately, there are American Episcopal Bishops who know how to dress (or, rather, allow themselves to be dressed by people who know how to dress bishops). I find that watching that video makes one feel much better about the world.
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boat Boy:
No, because your rudeness was of an entirely unwarranted extremity.
If you wish to engage in personal disputes with other posters, you may do so in Hell not in Ecclesiantics. You may not do so elsewhere. Let me advise you to reacquaint yourself with the 10 commandments of the ship and the guidelines of each board.
seasick, Ecclesiantics host
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
The vast majority of TEC bishops wear perfectly ordinary vestments, but blogs aren't going to get all a-titter about that. Heck, even ++Schori has ordinary vestments.
Most of ++Schori's vestments are gifts from well meaning old ladies for pete's sake. Get over it. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ 17. July 2012, 22:50: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
It's just a shame that the ordinary ones appear to be in the minority.
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boat Boy:
It's just a shame that the ordinary ones appear to be in the minority.
They aren't in the minority. There just aren't whole blogs dedicated to TEC bishops in ordinary vestments.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
There just aren't whole blogs dedicated to TEC bishops in ordinary vestments.
And why might that be?
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boat Boy:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
There just aren't whole blogs dedicated to TEC bishops in ordinary vestments.
And why might that be?
So that people like you can't clang about on the internet about how our bishops have bad taste.
[ 17. July 2012, 23:08: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
Yup, that's it. Nothing to do with an ACTUAL lack of taste at all. Nope, not at all.
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
I'm sensing full on pond war here.
Have fun, folks, I'm out.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I would call you to hell, Boatman, but you are certainly not worth it.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
"Yeah but, no but, my bishop has a more tasteful gremial than your bishop" does not amount to reasoned discussion. Furthermore, it does not further discussion of the topic raised in the OP. I am now of the opinion - this being the third host post I have had to make on this thread in a relatively short space of time - that the chances of a productive discussion are slim to none. In those circumstances, this thread is closed.
seasick, Eccles host
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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