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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Shut-the-fuck-up... please!
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Evensong, you trivialised serious diseases. Until you address that issue, all of your clever posturing looks to me like so much evading the issue.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
For what it is worth, Foucault is never consistent. Therefore to create a TULIP version of Foucault is to get him wrong. That is partly due to where he is coming from. I use him a lot in my thesis, but that is because he gives a lot of tools that are useful for analysing the social world not because my thesis is Foucauldian. I use plenty of other theorists as well.
Firstly there is a tight relationship between power and knowledge. You do not need to go to Foucault for that, "knowledge is power", "the power to know" are phrases in common use. Also that which can not be talked about has a real sense of unreality about it. I know that from personal experience. Actually although Foucault never uses it, the experience of translating is often the best way to learn about the way the language we use around a topic actually shapes our understanding of it. Another interesting one is the way computers have transformed mathematics. They have given us tools to think about mathematical problems that were just too difficult for previous generations.
Really what is under attack is not knowledge itself but the idea of the neutral observer. He wants to draw attention to the way that our thought is shaped by the culture we are in and the way it creates power dynamics. We are thus taking up pre scripted roles but through those roles exercise power. Yes Foucault the prime individualist is also Foucault the totalitarian.
Second Foucault is also French, and follows the French predilection for grandiose over arching themes and aims. The French have meta narratives in ways that no pragmatic anglo ever does. Not our style, we tend to work with the immediate and the practical. We work up, the French work down. One is not better than the other but they do have a different feel. Yes this is caricature but there is more than a grain of truth in it.
The mistake happens when you leap from that to thinking that the tools we think with can take any form at all or that there might not be a basic form that underlies experience. It is false in mathematics; it is false in the rest of life. Our brain only grasps and manipulates it through tools, but that does not mean it depends on the tools to experience it. As Mauss pointed out the French and English may need different styles of spade in order to dig, however it does not follow that you could therefore make an effective spade out of jelly.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
The following
quote:
but that does not mean it depends on the tools to experience it.
should read something like
quote:
but that does not mean it depends on the tools to exist. However we can only experience it through the tools
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Questioning everything is good. Having the only things you ever say be idiotic or even loathsome... less good. Especially in front of habitually pattern-seeking creatures.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
My philosophical meanderings and musings apply to all and any school of thought: theology included (- which is, of course, the highest school of thought).
High school of thought? Evensong, put the drugs down and back away and you might save your remaining braincells. It's not as if you have any to spare.
quote:
[i] (But it's best not to tell others that. They're under the mistaken impression that if you question something you're a rabid anti-vacciner.
Most people are familliar with the concept (if not the term) of JAQing off. Which is what most people "Just asking questions" are doing. Especially those who ask questions where the answer is well known (as you are), raise Points Refuted A Thousand Times (such as any autism/vaccination link or the idea that childhood diseases aren't dangerous), and display willful ignorance (here you appear too vapid to be willful).
Now if you're going to JAQ off, please be a good girl and close the door. No one really wants to watch you spray your ignorance all over everything. Especially not things that save hundreds of thousands of lives.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
A refreshing and helpful perspective...
quote:
I wasn't a completely barefoot do-gooding type by any stretch of the imagination, but I breastfed, and read a lot of alternative health forums online that left me convinced we had become too over-protective. It was good for children to catch diseases naturally and fight them off by themselves. My baby would build up a strong immune system all of her own, not have it interfered with by some paranoid government programme that seemed to involve pumping metals into her blood.
That was, until she caught pertussis – which turns out to mean whooping cough. Which turns out to mean months of pain. It is a highly contagious disease that comes in stages, but that horrible, hacking cough that kept her up all night went on for so many weeks that she was prescribed an inhaler. She was past her first birthday, so unlikely to die of it, like newborns can, but it's disgusting to watch your child needlessly suffer like that. My parents had to come to help us, and then we grownups all succumbed to the revolting condition too. Of course, having wanted to avoid filling her body with chemicals, I ended up giving her all the medicines I could find.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
The irony is that when Evensong said that measles is not a scary disease, this itself is unthinking and unquestioning. It is an unfounded and dangerous statement, if unchallenged. Fortunately, it has been challenged.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
Foucault probably deserves his own hell thread. For being a contrary bastard.
I like Jengie's reading. As usual, she has given me a lot to think about.
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Evensong, you trivialised serious diseases. Until you address that issue, all of your clever posturing looks to me like so much evading the issue.
I keep coming back to this. I would like to hear a coherent statement of your argument, ES.
The comparison between science and theology is apt, as both were (well, science still is) dominant discourses of particular time periods. And if you want to argue that science is never completely objective (whatever that means), or that it has limits which should be respected, you will find no stauncher ally than me. And I certainly agree that parents should be informed of the potential risks of vaccination, as I was when both my daughters were vaccinated.
The thing is, here medical science has provided us with the best solution we can currently offer to the problem of some (potentially very serious) diseases, over a wide section of the population. It is mass vaccination.
What is the alternative to this you are proposing? That if we started with a different set of assumptions when conducting the epidemiological testing my friend Patdys has talked about, we would come up with significantly different results? Do you seriously believe that? I don't.
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
You must wish the death of innocent children! You must be a rabid anti-vaccinator!
Walk, swim, quack, duck.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Dark Knight
Yes, I liked Jengie's reading. And don't get me wrong, I wasn't arguing that Foucault was consistent or that his writings are without merit. Simply that scepticism over objectivity in research work has entered the world of popular thought. This quote had me nodding my head.
quote:
The mistake happens when you leap from that to thinking that the tools we think with can take any form at all or that there might not be a basic form that underlies experience. It is false in mathematics; it is false in the rest of life.
South Coast Kevin, Evensong
The issue is not the social context within which peer reviews take place. It is that mainstream opinion flows from many different research programmes and peer reviews. That's why it's mainstream.
The fact that Wakefield's credibility is shot doesn't make mainstream opinion correct of course. But Dark Knight has it spot on here in his question to Evensong.
quote:
The thing is, here medical science has provided us with the best solution we can currently offer to the problem of some (potentially very serious) diseases, over a wide section of the population. It is mass vaccination.
What is the alternative to this you are proposing?
That is a good question.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
She caught pertussis – which turns out to mean whooping cough. Which turns out to mean months of pain. It is a highly contagious disease that comes in stages, but that horrible, hacking cough that kept her up all night went on for so many weeks that she was prescribed an inhaler. She was past her first birthday, so unlikely to die of it, like newborns can, but it's disgusting to watch your child needlessly suffer like that.
Poor kid. Our son was born in West Africa and got immunisations at an early age through a wonderful UNICEF clinic. Some of them, I think, were ones that are no longer given in Britain but were necessary there.
At an early age he caught Whooping Cough. But the immunisation reduced the illness to a manageable level. He still had the "whoop" and was in moderate discomfort for a week or so, but that was all. No worse than a mild bout of 'flu (which itself can be nasty). That proved the value of immunisation to us, not that we needed convincing.
He's 29 now, by the way!
[ 25. April 2013, 15:19: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
L'organist: quote:
2. Science in primary schools is either not taught at all (regardless of national curriculum) or is done badly.
What's your evidence for this? My daughter's school teaches science very well indeed, with the result that at the age of 9 she has a fairly good grasp of the scientific method and has covered a number of topics that I only studied at secondary school (laws of motion, astronomy, biological processes, ecology, the water cycle, electrical circuits, visible light spectrum... there's probably more but that's what I can remember off the top of my head). And her school was only rated 'Good' in their last OFSTED inspection. I don't know what they have to do to get 'Outstanding' - teach their pupils to walk on water, probably.
It's fashionable to blame schools for all the problems in society, but they have far less influence on popular culture than the media. And media types love stirring up controversy. If they can't find a real controversy they're happy to manufacture one, however irresponsible it might be to do so.
Hear, hear. I'm hugely impressed by the work of the two primary schools I know closely in helping children think about ideas like fair tests, and putting them into practice. Similarly with maths where I see children gaining an understanding of how numbers function which underpins their use of numbers in calculations, learning tables etc., and the extent to which children then enjoy 'playing' with numbers. Streets away from the unexplained 'carry one and take away' by rote approach which was my childhood introduction to maths, and which I hated because I had no idea of why we were doing it.
I can place exactly the time when I started to enjoy maths to when our teacher began with us to use for the first time "Pattern and power of mathematics' a course running up to 'O' level where the focus was on learning by understanding.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
You must wish the death of innocent children! You must be a rabid anti-vaccinator!
Walk, swim, quack, duck.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
The thing is this, heart transplants and intensive care get all the headlines. People think what I do (paediatric surgery) is pretty amazing but if you want to talk about medical advances; nothing comes close to vaccines.
In terms of lives saved and lives improved the most important thing over the past 150 years or whatever is access to clean water. In terms of saving lives in the future and improving lives then making clean water available to all is vital.
Next on the list and way ahead of anything else is vaccines. Nothing comes close.
Diseases that we used to fear and now not ever heard of.
I trained in Bristol and have worked there a lot. A few years ago I heard Prof Finn (see OP) give a talk on the natural cycle of vaccine scares. He noted how when vaccines come out, uptake is really high because knowledge of the disease is widespread. As vaccine uptake grows, the disease burden reduces and (if we're lucky) the disease all but disappears. And then people stop fearing the disease giving room for vaccine scares.
He also noted that vaccine scares have no correlation to actual level of risk. Until about 10 years ago in the UK we used the oral polio vaccine. We don't any more in part because the injected vaccine is much safer. All cases of polio in the UK in the past 30 years have been vaccine related. Often in grandparents of children being vaccinated. Yet there has never been fears about polio vaccination.
What's particularly malevolent about Wakefield is not that he did some research that asked a question. It is that he conducted unethical and fraudulent research. It is that he held a press-conference when the paper came out and stirred up public anxiety. It is that he has made a lot of money by selling false hope to Autism parents. It is that he is responsible (with the help of certain sectors of the press) for the current problems. And it is that that he seeks to blame others.
He is really beneath contempt.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Evensong, you trivialised serious diseases. Until you address that issue, all of your clever posturing looks to me like so much evading the issue.
I keep coming back to this. I would like to hear a coherent statement of your argument, ES.
I did not trivialise serious diseases. I pointed out that when I was a child, Measles, mumps and Rubella were not diseases that people were afraid of because that was not our experience. L'organist said she had a similiar experience.
Odd that nobody jumped on her. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
The comparison between science and theology is apt, as both were (well, science still is) dominant discourses of particular time periods. And if you want to argue that science is never completely objective (whatever that means), or that it has limits which should be respected, you will find no stauncher ally than me. And I certainly agree that parents should be informed of the potential risks of vaccination, as I was when both my daughters were vaccinated.
HALLEFUCKINLUJAH! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
That's all I was trying to say.
I myself was not informed of the risks or of the fact that vaccination was not an exact science (even if its the best we have). I'm glad you were.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
What is the alternative to this you are proposing?
Besides being adequately informed, my alternative would be to hurry the fuck up with developing edible vaccines.
Nasal vaccines for airbourne infectious diseases like measles would be my preferred option too.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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mertide
Shipmate
# 4500
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I myself was not informed of the risks or of the fact that vaccination was not an exact science (even if its the best we have). I'm glad you were.
Evensong, you've said your husband is a doctor. Why didn't you ask him for information and his opinion? Surely he had input into whether his kids were vaccinated too?
Posts: 382 | From: Brisbane | Registered: May 2003
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Because she's a fucking liar.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong earlier (Part 1):
Me and my mates in Indonesia had measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox and most normal childhood diseases. They were not scary diseases.
The stats people come up with these days for diseases like measles are most likely based on hospitalised cases rather than normal cases. Hence they are skewed
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
The comparison between science and theology is apt, as both were (well, science still is) dominant discourses of particular time periods. And if you want to argue that science is never completely objective (whatever that means), or that it has limits which should be respected, you will find no stauncher ally than me. And I certainly agree that parents should be informed of the potential risks of vaccination, as I was when both my daughters were vaccinated.
HALLEFUCKINLUJAH!
That's all I was trying to say.
You have a convenient memory. What Dark Knight said was not all you were trying to say. You were rubbishing mainstream opinion and statistics about childhood ailments in favour of your own experience.
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong earlier (Part 2):
And since we're sharing rare anecdotes, my son reacted badly to two vaccines.
It was the first time I thought to think twice.
My GP new fuck all about possible side effects.
I was never warned my son might end up significantly disabled from a vaccine (regardless of how rare it might be).
That's just so, so, so, so wrong.
I believe laws have changed more recently tho. I think parents are legally obliged to be warned now.
Better late than never.
Yes, you did say that. But it's not balanced, is it?
From the first part of your post, quoted above, you airily discount medical information about the risk of non-vaccination.
From the second part you demand information about the risk of vaccination. Both sets of information come from statistical evidence you discount as equivalent to lies.
That's just indignant pouting.
"I've got a right to know".
Well, now you've got that. But you'd rather trust your own experience than lies, damn lies and statistics, wouldn't you. That's the consistent thread in your earlier post.
Wise up. Your arguments are pure crap.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mertide:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I myself was not informed of the risks or of the fact that vaccination was not an exact science (even if its the best we have). I'm glad you were.
Evensong, you've said your husband is a doctor. Why didn't you ask him for information and his opinion? Surely he had input into whether his kids were vaccinated too?
He was a software engineer when our children were born.
He retrained in medicine in his late twenties.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
I don't think you're a liar. But as B62 points out, you seem to be quite inconsistent about this. Now it seems you are advocating for vaccination, albeit different types of vaccinations. So I am not sure what you are trying to say. If all you are trying to say is that parents should be better informed, than that would be difficult to disagree with. In fact, if I read the OP correctly, one of the issues many have with Wakefield is that he is misinforming people.
And people did jump on l'organist, or whatever his or her name is. Well ... people disagreed with his or her points. When I read his/her posts, I noted that he/she seemed not to understand what the word 'anecdote' meant, and thought my time was better spent engaging other points and posters.
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
Inform people in full. Inform them of the likelihood of risks from vaccination, and the likelihood of risks from not being vaccinated. With graphs. Do both at once to make the comparison.
('Likelihood of risks' here should encompass both frequency and severity of risks.)
Bonus points if herd immunity is also mentioned. If any anecdotes are used on either side of the debate, one must be used for the other side too (so for every "My daughter came down with a fever after having the MMR", there needs to be a "My son is allergic to egg so couldn't have his jabs, and since we hadn't reached herd immunity he got measles and spent months in hospital").
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I did not trivialise serious diseases. I pointed out that when I was a child, Measles, mumps and Rubella were not diseases that people were afraid of because that was not our experience. L'organist said she had a similiar experience.
That you were ignorant when you were a six year old has what precisely to do with anything? I was ignorant as a six year old. I don't consider that to reflect very much other than that I was a six year old - and I have made efforts to educate myself since.
As for l'Organist, you and she were making fundamentally different arguments from the same premise. l'Organist was talking about how we need better communication and that we should vaccinate and talk more about the actual impacts of childhood diseases. You were saying that it was "so, so, so, so wrong" to lower someone's chance of braindamage by a factor of a thousand and not go into all the details - including that you'd only lowered it from a bit over one in a thousand to the neighbourhood of one in a million. Rather than it's so, so, so wrong to expose someone to a one in a thousand risk of brain damage (as measles has).
quote:
I myself was not informed of the risks or of the fact that vaccination was not an exact science (even if its the best we have). I'm glad you were.
So you weren't informed about the risks either of vaccination or of diseases. Is there anything you were informed about? Have you ever even thought about educating yourself about any layer of medicine? The information is all out there.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I did not trivialise serious diseases. I pointed out that when I was a child, Measles, mumps and Rubella were not diseases that people were afraid of because that was not our experience. L'organist said she had a similiar experience.
That you were ignorant when you were a six year old has what precisely to do with anything? I was ignorant as a six year old. I don't consider that to reflect very much other than that I was a six year old - and I have made efforts to educate myself since.
As for l'Organist, you and she were making fundamentally different arguments from the same premise. l'Organist was talking about how we need better communication and that we should vaccinate and talk more about the actual impacts of childhood diseases. You were saying that it was "so, so, so, so wrong" to lower someone's chance of braindamage by a factor of a thousand and not go into all the details - including that you'd only lowered it from a bit over one in a thousand to the neighbourhood of one in a million. Rather than it's so, so, so wrong to expose someone to a one in a thousand risk of brain damage (as measles has).
quote:
I myself was not informed of the risks or of the fact that vaccination was not an exact science (even if its the best we have). I'm glad you were.
So you weren't informed about the risks either of vaccination or of diseases. Is there anything you were informed about? Have you ever even thought about educating yourself about any layer of medicine? The information is all out there.
And of course there was no one to ask. GPs don't answer questions about stuff, the Heath Visitor tells you nothing and there wasn't anything on the Internet ... But why on earth should anyone be expected to educate themselves?! It should all be handed to you on a plate. Asking is for wimps.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
To be fair, if your source evaluation skills are poor the internet is a really, really bad place to get information on health matters.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
Inform people in full. Inform them of the likelihood of risks from vaccination, and the likelihood of risks from not being vaccinated. With graphs. Do both at once to make the comparison.
('Likelihood of risks' here should encompass both frequency and severity of risks.)
Bonus points if herd immunity is also mentioned. If any anecdotes are used on either side of the debate, one must be used for the other side too (so for every "My daughter came down with a fever after having the MMR", there needs to be a "My son is allergic to egg so couldn't have his jabs, and since we hadn't reached herd immunity he got measles and spent months in hospital").
Actually, a more effective real world approach is to invite the patient to state how much information they wish and provide that. Everyone gets* a broad outline of risks and the safety net, the things to look out for, the reasons when to seek medical help, but not everyone wants the graphs.
* it's nice being optimistically idealistic. It's a happy place to live.
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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
Posts: 3511 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
I think some of these comments are unfair. ES probably had an expectation that her doctor would alert her to the fact that there were risks involved in the vaccination process. I don't think that is unreasonable. And this would have been before all the information (and misinformation) we currently have available on the internet.
As far as I am concerned, her current position is open to critique. But her actions as a young parent who put a level of trust in her doctor may be naive, but pretty understandable.
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Ah, "fairness". What level of tapdancing equivocation should we tolerate from Evensong as she ever-so-slowly realizes that she's totally fucking wrong and hopes to levitate out of the mud via the uplifting power of prevarication and denial?
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
To be fair, if your source evaluation skills are poor the internet is a really, really bad place to get information on health matters.
What?! No!
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
I should never have posted on this thread. I'm sorry. I am stupidity incarnate.
If I post on another such one in the future, please feel free to shoot me and tell me to go away in no uncertain terms.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
That'll do for me.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
Inform people in full. Inform them of the likelihood of risks from vaccination, and the likelihood of risks from not being vaccinated. With graphs. Do both at once to make the comparison.
Do you mean something like this?
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I'm sorry.
Well, fuck me. The best possible move. Well played.
I am sorry that I let my generalized ire of anti-vax focus on you so specifically. That well is deep, and over-nourishes my usual misanthropy.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Hell just froze over.
In a couple of ways. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I'd close the thread, but initially it was about yelling at people external to the Ship.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I should never have posted on this thread. I'm sorry. I am stupidity incarnate.
If I post on another such one in the future, please feel free to shoot me and tell me to go away in no uncertain terms.
Of course she'll complain later if you don't tell what she later wants to know about the risks of shooting.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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