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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Calling Mudfrog and any other warmongering Christ deniers to Hell
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
It's worth much Rosa Winkel. Everything you say is. I stand corrected on the details of gassings in Germany. Thank you.
Until very recently I would have argued for the complete carpet bombing of Germany rather than D-Day. THEY started it, WE finish it. If it had gone on long enough, with nuclear weapons.
But in the hindsight of confrontation with Jesus, even 'simple' humanitarian pacifism emerges for me, as it does on this and the Pacifism and Remembrance threads, independent of His example.
I bought in to total war. To unconditional surrender. It is easily arguable that they on OUR part precipitated the Holocaust and the atomic bombings, through the prolonging and intensification of the war.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
Most people (or perhaps I'm being naïve again) regard war as a tragedy and failure, don't they?
I'm not seeing much sense of tragedy and failure in all the gung-ho, bash-the-bosh, it's-your-moral-duty-to-get-out-there-and-die-if-we-say-the-enemy-is-evil-enough, anyone-who-doesn't-want-to-fight-is-an-evil-gutless-collaborator crap that's been posted on various threads over the last week.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
I've not been here much lately, but that's the kind of shite I had in mind. Looking from over here, I think it has grown, or at least, there's more of a link between the present day with the historical military. For example, the Liverpool game the other day saw the teams brought out by soldiers. I don't remember that when I was regularly going to games in the 90s.
M. and Martin: ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
That still doesn't add up to many does it?
They are more than "a few nutcases" and far, far more deadly. They are in large part the reason we can't have nice things. Well, that and the fact that We The People won't stand up to them.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
And what should a government comprised of disciples do? It's a false distinction. Institutions don't have a separate set of morals from the people who run them.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
And what should a government comprised of disciples do? It's a false distinction. Institutions don't have a separate set of morals from the people who run them.
They do just that and in many jurisdictions they are encouraged to do so. If it isn't governments being advised by civil servants and their own political advisors or taking a lead from the press, it's limited libility companies acting as distinct entities that allow their owners to benefit from taking risks that could get sole traders and partners sent to jail.
It's long been a concern of mine that transferring financial risk has the undesirable consequence of transferring moral and legal responsibiities.
[ 23. November 2013, 13:05: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
It's worth much Rosa Winkel. Everything you say is. I stand corrected on the details of gassings in Germany. Thank you.
Until very recently I would have argued for the complete carpet bombing of Germany rather than D-Day. THEY started it, WE finish it. If it had gone on long enough, with nuclear weapons.
But in the hindsight of confrontation with Jesus, even 'simple' humanitarian pacifism emerges for me, as it does on this and the Pacifism and Remembrance threads, independent of His example.
I bought in to total war. To unconditional surrender. It is easily arguable that they on OUR part precipitated the Holocaust and the atomic bombings, through the prolonging and intensification of the war.
An interesting person to research with regard to World War II, and long before that, is George Bell, Bishop of Chichester.
Virtually from the time of the establishment of the Versailles Treaty he - and some others - were warning of a backlash against a too strident oppression of Germany's economic and political power, in punishment for the First World War. He predicted it would leave the German population vulnerable to the unscrupulous political desires of others to avenge their humiliations through future conquests and power-mongering in Europe.
He was also an early-warning voice on what was happening with the Jews in Germany in the early thirties. At that stage, of course, he was reminded that those were internal matters for Germany, and of no international interest. His concern for the Jews partially coincided with that of Bonhoeffer's (they may even have met once, I think?), who similarly made attempts to highlight the problem abroad, and even help with the removal of some Jews to safety. Bell's concern for the Jews was a constant theme in his public work and private life.
While Churchill - in 1935/6 - was still recording in his journal that only history could tell whether Hitler would turn out to be a good or a bad thing, Bell was still raising frequent concerns over the re-militarization of Germany, the construction of holding camps for, amongst other unGerman people, the Jews, and the acquirement of absolute power by Hitler - albeit via ostensibly legitimate political processes.
He made himself famously unpopular during the blanket-bombing raids of Germany by raising the question for the need of it in the House of Lords. He made it clear that while he prayed for the lives of all pilots and flight crews so engaged, he seriously questioned that good was being achieved by Britain out-heroding Herod in the blanket-bombing department.
It's significant, too, that one of his major works during the war, was the maintenance of art and culture, as a means of anchoring the soul of the nation in heritage, faith and higher philosophies; that these things wouldn't be sacrificed in the fight for survival.
Bell was not a pacifist but his reluctance to condone every war-office effort against the enemy, and often to challenge them, seemed in some people's minds to put him in that camp.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Thank you Anselmina (not very Hadean here is it? Let alone Tartaroon or Gehennan.)
I used to despise and rail against Bell. Here. God has forgiven me, when I will forgive myself is another thing.
'ang on! Bell WASN'T a pacifist?! HA! Wuss.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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