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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: "Clean" means "Dirty"
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Kittyville
Shipmate
# 16106
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Posted
To me, it's actually more straightforward than it sounds from that description. It's the outside lane from the point of view of someone travelling on that side of the road - you don't think of the road as being the lanes travelling in both directions, only one. So you start in the inside lane when you join a multilane road, then move to the right into either a centre or outside lane to overtake. (In a right hand drive world, of course).
Posts: 291 | From: Sydney | Registered: Dec 2010
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
But that is still arbitrary. Inside could easily be the lane closest to the center. Better to say move right, or left as the case may be. When in the UK, move right to pass; when in the US, move left to pass. Easy-peasy. Easier yet, pass towards the driver's side of the car. Works in any country where drivers bother to follow the rules.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I think it's 'inside' towards the car inside from the driver, 'outside' on the driver's outside. Also, the 'inside' is harder to see from the outside than the outside is to see from the inside.
Either that, or it's related to the inside track being the short track round a bend; the inside being the preferred side to travel on.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Gracious rebel
Rainbow warrior
# 3523
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Posted
In a similar vein, I have trouble with 'offside' and 'nearside'.
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Fancy a break beside the sea in Suffolk? Visit my website
Posts: 4413 | From: Suffolk UK | Registered: Nov 2002
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Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I think it's 'inside' towards the car inside from the driver, 'outside' on the driver's outside. Also, the 'inside' is harder to see from the outside than the outside is to see from the inside.
That actually makes sense, thank you! So it's relative to the car, not the road.
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
Going back to road signs, I believe that in the UK a road sign with a yellow background indicates a fatality related to what the road sign is telling you about.
This might be a problem for US drivers where in some states, I understand, a speed limit shown on a yellow background is optional.
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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geroff
Shipmate
# 3882
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Posted
This is probably a tangent but why oh why do we have a sign in big black letters on a yellow ground under a set of traffic lights which says 'Stop when the light is red.' Or 'Right turners give way to oncoming traffic.' ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Posts: 1172 | From: Montgomeryshire, Wales | Registered: Jan 2003
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geroff
Shipmate
# 3882
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Posted
Another way of indicating the side of car is Drivers Side and Passenger side.
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"The first principle in science is to invent something nice to look at and then decide what it can do." Rowland Emett 1906-1990
Posts: 1172 | From: Montgomeryshire, Wales | Registered: Jan 2003
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
What about "Raised Ironworks" and "Cats' Eyes Removed" (during roadworks)?
Poor pussies.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Apropos roadworks, a RAMP sign indicates anything but an incline. It means "Mind your exhaust, spoilers and catalytic convertor: there's a three inch ridge ahead".
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
And I've always been intrigued by the sign which says "Deep Excavation" - why not just "Big Hole"?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
"Industrial action" means people sitting around not doing anything for a defined period.
"First refusal" when something isn't currently for sale, but may be in the future, doesn't mean you have been the first person to be refused, but will be the first person to be offered it.
As for "debtors" and "creditors", a creditor isn't someone to whom you've extended credit, it's someone you owe money to. A debtor isn't someone who you are in debt to, they owe you money.
(Edited because I got this confused again.)
[ 30. January 2015, 07:00: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
As for "debtors" and "creditors", a creditor isn't someone to whom you've extended credit, it's someone you owe money to. A debtor isn't someone who has a debt they need to repay you, they owe you money.
That goes some way towards explaining why I am neither a banker nor an accountant. It's just wrong, and I wonder if it is the same in other languages and cultures.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
*shrug* A creditor is a person who has given credit, just as an employer is someone who has given employment.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
*shrug* A creditor is a person who has given credit, just as an employer is someone who has given employment.
Just because it's obvious to you doesn't mean it's so obvious to the rest of us.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
What about that lovely roadsign Soft verges?
My all time favourite is usually to be found on the back of a double-decker: Let the bus pull out - as if you have any chance at all of stopping the damn thing (which is invariably driven by someone who pulls out without ever - EVER - looking in their mirror).
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
*shrug* A creditor is a person who has given credit, just as an employer is someone who has given employment.
Employer / employee
Creditor / creditee
Debtor / debtee?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I may have said this upthread ... but one of the words I find annoying is "attendee" in the sense of "a person who attends (a meeting)".
But I think that is wrong; surely an "attendee" is "someone who is attended or waited upon"; while a person at a church is an attenDER?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
As for "debtors" and "creditors", a creditor isn't someone to whom you've extended credit, it's someone you owe money to. A debtor isn't someone who has a debt they need to repay you, they owe you money.
That goes some way towards explaining why I am neither a banker nor an accountant. It's just wrong, and I wonder if it is the same in other languages and cultures.
The joys of a living language. I've not encountered any that do not have idiosyncrasies, but English does seem to be abundantly blessed with them.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I may have said this upthread ... but one of the words I find annoying is "attendee" in the sense of "a person who attends (a meeting)".
But I think that is wrong; surely an "attendee" is "someone who is attended or waited upon"; while a person at a church is an attenDER?
In the same vein, I have sometimes seen notices on buses or coaches in the UK stating: "x number of seated passengers, y numnber of standees". Aaaaghhh!
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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basso
Ship’s Crypt Keeper
# 4228
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Posted
The OED has attendee and standee as 'originally and chiefly U.S.', so we're probably looking at another pond difference. Standee is older; the first citation in the passenger sense is from 1856.
Posts: 4358 | From: Bay Area, Calif | Registered: Mar 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Traffic lights ought to be the other way round, as well: green for peaceful, restful stop and red for energetic get-your-foot-down and rocket off. I don't have a problem with them as they currently are, but it would feel a bit more natural if the meanings were reversed.
Traffic lights come from ship lights. The right or starboard side is lighted green, with the left or port side lit red. You are "burdened" if you see a red light, and thus must give way. They simply used the marine convention when originally designing traffic lights as far as I know. I like the idea of feeling burdened by traffic lights, and the idea that I can leave my burden right there at the intersection when the light goes green.
An odd traffic sign here states "high collision location strictly enforced" at certain intersections where lots of crashing has occurred.
I've always wondered what would happen in shops and restaurants if you strolled in and asked "how much to pee?" because of the sign "toilets [or restrooms] for paying customers only".
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
*shrug* A creditor is a person who has given credit, just as an employer is someone who has given employment.
Employer / employee
Creditor / creditee
Debtor / debtee?
False parallel I think. "or" and "er" endings are different, though I do not know the significance (if any).
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
That brings to mind the Yorkshire "while". In South Yorkshire in particular the word while is used like "until" so you might say to somebody "I'm here while five o'clock and then I'm off". Unfortunately level (railway) crossings have a standard sign which used to read "wait here while lights are flashing"...
I learned of that use via the Sisters of Mercy song, "Nine While Nine," a phrase I couldn't make sense of so I googled it. It also reminds me of this:
My roommate's from Pennsylvania Dutch territory (the Pennsylvania Dutch are of German descent, and have a very distinct culture and speech patterns). "Awhile," in her native part of the country, means "meanwhile" or "in the meantime." E.g., the other day, she was going to shovel the sidewalk after we got home, and, alerting me to the fact that she wasn't following me inside, said, "You go on in awhile." Well, I intended to stay in for the night, actually, not just a while. (I think in most of the US, "a while" refers to a duration in time, as in, "It took my roommate a while to shovel the snow, but meanwhile, I was relaxing indoors.")
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
I somehow always end up following the buses around here, and they have triangular rear indicator lights. So when they signal left, what I see is a flashing arrow pointing right, even though it's on the left side of the vehicle. It's the way my mind works.
I have a similar thing, as Penny S has, with the close/open door buttons in elevators (that link is to a photo of the type I mean). I tend to see the mass in the triangles and read them opposite (even though I know better - and, orfeo, I also know doors aren't triangular). So the ones for opening doors have the mass in the center, which, to my brain, indicates closed doors, even though it shows arrows pointing out. If the buttons had only <> instead of filled-in triangles, it might not have the same effect on me; I don't know.
I like this idea better: An icon like this wouldn't so easily confuse my brain.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
Here's another one: "right" meaning "straight." Funnily enough, I've noticed, in my local dialect/accent, anyway, that we tend to pronounce the vowel in "right" as if it were the vowel in "straight" when we're using it that way (though not always). So it's like we're saying, "'raight ahead." I wonder if we're actually using a contraction of "straight," then.
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
To me the most common confusion is in the street post push buttons to control the walk light at an intersection. It's often unclear what street is meant by which arrow when there are two buttons.
Not exactly relevant to this thread (as it's more of a pond difference), but I was thrown off during my recent trip to Manchester by those crossing signs. The button you press to get the indication when it's safe to cross is where I'd expect it to be - just to your side. But the indicator is directly above it, whereas I'm used to looking across the street for the "walk"/"don't walk" indicator. Had I followed the one across the street facing me in Manchester, I could've been flattened while crossing the street! (My other source of confusion was the nearly complete lack of street signs giving the names of streets. Sometimes they were posted on buildings at intersections, but usually not. There were tons of sign posts pointing directionally toward different destinations, but that's not as helpful as you'd think.)
I first encountered the word "standee" while working at the cathedral in San Francisco. It was used to describe people who were standing in our SRO services Christmas Eve. I couldn't understand why we didn't just say "standers," or "people standing." "Standees" seemed ugly to me. I've also always understood the -ee ending to refer to someone having something done to them, while someone who is doing something is indicated by -er, -or, or -ant.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Traffic lights come from ship lights. ...
I don't think that's correct. I think they come from the lights used on railway signals at night.
quote:
Originally posted by Churchgeek
Not exactly relevant to this thread (as it's more of a pond difference), but I was thrown off during my recent trip to Manchester by those crossing signs. The button you press to get the indication when it's safe to cross is where I'd expect it to be - just to your side. But the indicator is directly above it, whereas I'm used to looking across the street for the "walk"/"don't walk" indicator. Had I followed the one across the street facing me in Manchester, I could've been flattened while crossing the street! (My other source of confusion was the nearly complete lack of street signs giving the names of streets. Sometimes they were posted on buildings at intersections, but usually not. There were tons of sign posts pointing directionally toward different destinations, but that's not as helpful as you'd think.)
Until quite recently the lights were on the opposite side of the road where you would have expected to see them, and most of us still do. I don't know why they've changed.
They've never said "walk"/"don't walk". Since they were introduced 50+ years ago, they've always had a little red or green man.
I'm puzzled by the claim there are no street signs in Manchester. In the UK streets normally have their name on a plate either attached to a building or on a little stand on the pavement. I agree they sometimes aren't that easy to see, but I think you may simply be assuming everywhere signs streets the way your home town (Detroit?) chooses to do it.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Traffic lights come from ship lights. ...
I don't think that's correct. I think they come from the lights used on railway signals at night.
It's an interesting question. I have the history of ship navigation lighting starting with recommendations in 1836 and railway lighting 2 years later in 1838, but it is from sailing reference material so perhaps some bias. I might suspect some co-occurrence, though the red light appears to have the marine as the first, with the green less clear. Perhaps precedence claims might be history that was claimed to sell the lamps as well?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Until quite recently the lights were on the opposite side of the road where you would have expected to see them, and most of us still do. I don't know why they've changed.
The newer variety is a "puffin crossing" (or a "toucan crossing" if it includes both pedestrians and a cycle path.) It is claimed that having the box next to you makes it easier to simultaneously watch the light and the oncoming traffic, and also that it's easier for people with poor vision to see.
I'm not sure I'm all that convinced, but ...
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Traffic lights come from ship lights. ...
I don't think that's correct. I think they come from the lights used on railway signals at night.
It's an interesting question. I have the history of ship navigation lighting starting with recommendations in 1836 and railway lighting 2 years later in 1838, but it is from sailing reference material so perhaps some bias. I might suspect some co-occurrence, though the red light appears to have the marine as the first, with the green less clear. Perhaps precedence claims might be history that was claimed to sell the lamps as well?
On railways, the general indication for "stop" has always been red; however the indication for "go" was often white (not green)until after the Abbots Ripton accident of 1876. Although this accident was partly due to frozen semaphore signals indicating a false "clear" sign (as they could not physically be moved into the "danger" position) rather than by any problem with the lights, it was realised that a broken red spectacle glass over the signal-lamp would also lead to a false "clear" signal, as a white light could be shown. Over the next few years railways therefore moved to green for "go". (It was also less likely that the enginemen would just see an ordinary lamp in a house or on a station, and confuse it with a signal).
The first traffic lights were installed outside the British Houses of Parliament in 1868. They were designed by a railway signalling engineer, and showed a red or green light. Unfortunately they were lit by gas and soon blew up, injuring the policeman who operated them. After that, traffic lights were developed in America.
When I lived in Portugal in the late 70s, traffic lights were still known as "semaforos" - semaphores!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
It is claimed that having the box next to you makes it easier to simultaneously watch the light and the oncoming traffic, and also that it's easier for people with poor vision to see.
I'm not sure I'm all that convinced, but ...
We have some traffic lights near our church, with a "red/green man" pedestrian phase. The indicator is on the far side of the road, but too high up, so people don't see it.
And that's all I have to say on the subject (you'll be pleased to know!)
[ 03. February 2015, 06:59: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I'm puzzled by the claim there are no street signs in Manchester. In the UK streets normally have their name on a plate either attached to a building or on a little stand on the pavement. I agree they sometimes aren't that easy to see, but I think you may simply be assuming everywhere signs streets the way your home town (Detroit?) chooses to do it.
Well, I'm sure I'm exaggerating, and I certainly could've overlooked quite a few of them, being in unfamiliar terrain and easily visually overstimulated. I caught on pretty quickly that when they were present, they were on plaques on buildings - you do see this in the US as well, in downtown areas. (And I am talking about City Centre in Manchester.) But so many times I looked and looked everywhere I could think to look (including that weird San Francisco location - impressed into the sidewalk ["pavement" in the UK]) and couldn't find the name of a street I was on, for blocks. Probably if I spent more time there, and didn't feel in a hurry to cover as much ground as I could in 2 days, it would all make more sense to me.
We do have the problem here in the US - in Michigan, at least - where occasionally a major road won't have its name posted for miles, just the cross-streets. Which is no help at all when you're not sure where you are, as others have mentioned.
But, of course, this is all a bit of a tangent...
(To avoid more of a tangent, I'll just say that in San Francisco, they stamp the street names on the sidewalk - as well as posting it on signposts and often on plaques on the buildings - because apparently in 1906 there was some trouble identifying streets because buildings were so utterly destroyed in the earthquake. And someone figures if that were to happen again, you'd be able to find where the street names were etched in sidewalks that would probably also be destroyed and quite certainly be covered in rubble...)
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
Well, I'm sure I'm exaggerating, and I certainly could've overlooked quite a few of them, being in unfamiliar terrain and easily visually overstimulated.
I haven't been to Manchester recently, but it wouldn't be the only council in the UK that enjoys playing Dump the Traveller. This game is played by clearly signposting all the streets the traveller needs to take until they get to a some particularly complex junction or tricky turning half way through the journey, at which point the use of street signs is utterly abandoned.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
The newer variety is a "puffin crossing" (or a "toucan crossing" if it includes both pedestrians and a cycle path.) It is claimed that having the box next to you makes it easier to simultaneously watch the light and the oncoming traffic, and also that it's easier for people with poor vision to see.
I'm not sure I'm all that convinced, but ...
It might be easier for people with poor vision. I think watching the lights and the state of the junction simultaneously is easier when the lights are on the other side of the junction straight in front of you.
Also, the puffins have a picture of the green man on them, which caused a moment's awkwardness when we told the Dafling that we couldn't cross until we could see the green man. ('No, not that green man. The shiny green man.')
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I have problems with that too.
The symbols on car dashboards are also not how I'd have portrayed the concepts they represent and aren't particularly intuitive. Fog (for one) ought to be a little cloud.
Incidentally, I had no idea that this was a possibility in some cars.
Page 2 can be misleading. ABS could simply be yet another insult about my tummy, the lambda symbol indicating that there are lesbian writers ahead, the engine fault indicator that Muslim prayers can be said in this car. On page 3, the attention alert indicator can be taken for a suggestion to take coffee, and with an exclamation mark, a double espresso; the economy alert indicator appears to enjoinder smoking a joint, the power limitation indicator would suggest that we be careful of tortoises on the road (useful near Fitzroy Harbour, Ontario, where I have several times seen large tortoises on the road). Page 1's engine oil lights would be, to most minds, an indication that one must summon a genie to get the car going again.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
I test drove a car that had a switch labelled TOSS OFF, which startled me somewhat.
(Apparently it was for switching the traction control off, and the 'O' was actually a badly painted 'C'.)
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
My car tells me that "ESP" is off. I always think, "Darn! Now I have to steer since it doesn't know where it's going!"
It apparently stands for Electronic Stability Program.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Forgive me for reviving the thread, but several weeks ago I thought of another example but couldn't remember exactly the wording involved... and a few minutes ago I actually stumbled across an email from when it happened.
I used to work on a computer system that would ask for certain kinds of documents "Would you like to save a dated version?".
It meant a version that recorded the date it was created. But in my mind I always instinctively responded that I wanted to do was save a current version.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
An advert on the website for the radio station I listen to, for a travel agents. "We specialise in every type of holiday". Right, that means they don't specialise in anything.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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