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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Congregational Settings of the Eucharist
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The repeated refrain 'Glory to God in the highest' sounds a bit desperate after the 4th repeat.
Refrain Glorias are the work of the Devil.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The repeated refrain 'Glory to God in the highest' sounds a bit desperate after the 4th repeat.
Refrain Glorias are the work of the Devil.
I wonder how many repeats to the refain there are - surely not much more than four.
Fr. W - can you please explain that strong statement.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
The Gloria in excelsis is not constructed with a recurring antiphon; it's a hymn of adoration with a mini-litany in the middle. The refrain Gloria thus results in deformation of the text.
And quite often, the refrains are the only thing the laity are allowed to sing, taking the greater part of this hymn of praise out of their mouths entirely.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
The Gloria in excelsis is not constructed with a recurring antiphon; it's a hymn of adoration with a mini-litany in the middle. The refrain Gloria thus results in deformation of the text.
And quite often, the refrains are the only thing the laity are allowed to sing, taking the greater part of this hymn of praise out of their mouths entirely.
Advantages and disadvantages to everything, I would say. Perhaps, it is not a good idea to make a text with a refrain the invariable usage setting for every occasion.
I am wondering, where does any such edict come from forbidding the congregation to sing in any part of the setting. If a choral setting intended to be left to the choir, then as someone in the congregation, that would not stop me from joining in in a low voice if I know the setting.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I suppose it would depend on the choir, but certainly our parish church choir would be quite happy for the congregation to join in with anything they wanted. Our choir master has put music copies of the Eucharist at the back of church for anyone who wishes to pick up a copy. With full music copies of hymn books and psalters the issue is more one of cost, but as long as there are enough spare copies, members of the congregation are welcome to come into the choir vestry and ask to use one of ours. Perhaps if they regularly wanted to do this, it might be worth those people buying their own.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Our parish church choir would be quite happy for the congregation to join in with anything they wanted.
I was surprised to receive the comment included in this MW report, where the commentator appears to feel just the opposite.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
The Gloria in excelsis is not constructed with a recurring antiphon; it's a hymn of adoration with a mini-litany in the middle. The refrain Gloria thus results in deformation of the text.
And quite often, the refrains are the only thing the laity are allowed to sing, taking the greater part of this hymn of praise out of their mouths entirely.
This and the discussion that underlies it, strikes me as being dogmatic about things that have neither the status nor nature of dogma. What it does have something of the nature of is what I said before Christmas on a different thread. quote:
'only the dear late Father Chantry-Pigg and I knew this, and now I alone am left to ensure the maintenance of the true faith against the barbarians'
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
Well, of course the faith doesn't stand or fall depending on what sort of Gloria setting is used.
I'm not going to apologize, however, for disliking refrain Glorias. They're dumb and patronizing.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Saviour Tortoise
Shipmate
# 4660
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Posted
After 18 years as Director of Music at my church (CofE CW Order 1 - good choir) I'm coming to the conclusion that there simply isn't a completely satisfactory answer to this conundrum.
We're currently using Macmillan's "Galloway Mass" (complete with refrain Gloria so detested by Fr Weber, above ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ). Before that we tried the Nardone "Mass of St Cedd" for a bit. Before that Peter Aston, Anthony Greening and Alan Wilson. In my youth I sang the Shephard "Addington" and Rutter. I've researched loads more.
It's very difficult to find something musically satisfying for the choir, enjoyable for the regular congregation, accessible to visitors, not cheesy, not boring, etc. etc. (add your own criteria here.) Plus, people's tastes are legitimately different. So whatever you pick, some people won't like it much, and they'll be stuck with it every week. (Unless you alternate between two.)
Every choice is compromised. The Macmillan we're using at the moment is pretty good, I think. Macmillan is a "Proper Serious Composer", and a man of deep faith, and he seems very aware of all of the above issues and tries to hold them in tension, but the whole project of trying to write a congregational setting of the Mass is, I think, a bit of a compromise.
We break it up a bit by using a choir-only setting of the Sanctus, Benedictus and Agnus Dei every other week.
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Baptised not Lobotomised
Posts: 745 | From: Bath, UK | Registered: Jun 2003
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