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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Evaluating Barack Obama: the first ... POTUS
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
Perhaps bigot isn't fair....maybe he's just a typical half-black person.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Speaking as someone from outside the U.S. who doesn't know much about U.S. politics it was bloody confusing seeing congress continually block the president again and again on issue after issue.
I think growing up I bought into the propaganda of the president being "very powerful" and "in charge". When government grinds to a halt as happened recently or you realize that there is still no surgeon general in the midst of Ebola panic and you realize that in fact he isn't in charge it's....as I said above bloody confusing.
It's a lot easier to buy in to the "President is the most powerful man in the world" hype when you live outside the U.S. Presidents usually face the least interference from the other branches of government when handling foreign affairs. It doesn't necessarily have to be that way, but that's the current practical reality.
The American government was deliberately set up with a lot of veto points in order to "check ambition with ambition", in the words of James Madison. The idea being that each branch of the government would be jealous of its prerogatives and "check" any over-reaching by the other branches, thus preventing tyranny. The general idea was to default to whatever the status quo happened to be whenever there was a dispute or controversial change. I'm not sure Madison or the others anticipated using America's plentiful veto points to deliberately derail the government.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
romanlion, the H. in Jesus H. Christ must obviously stand for Honda. You remember his apostolic prayer? And it says later in Acts that the Apostles were all in one Accord.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Perhaps bigot isn't fair....maybe he's just a typical half-black person.
Were you the guy in the car ahead of me the other day with the bumper sticker that said "I'm not racist, I don't like Obama's white half either"?
Your claiming not to be a bigot and that guy's claiming not to be racist prove that both of you are what you claim not to be.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Careful, Pigwidgeon. Commandment 3 prohibitions protect all Shipmates.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Perhaps bigot isn't fair....maybe he's just a typical half-black person.
And that got a reference to Admin. A classic jerkish remark, since it includes a blatant racism. Namely the assertion that half-black people "typically" exhibit something easily mistaken for bigotry.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
I'm not sure Madison or the others anticipated using America's plentiful veto points to deliberately derail the government.
Well, they weren't at all sure that their little experiment would last. In some ways, they were flying by the seat of their pants. And some of them had the...quaint...idea that we'd need a bloody revolution now and again, just to shake things up.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Obamacare.
Jesus H. Christ on an everloving bicycle, we have health insurance. You in other countries cannot know how big a deal this is.
Indeed I think this, in the end, is going to be seen as the big story from Obama's presidency in years to come. It's the kind of change that is going to continue to affect the lives of a huge proportion of the American population.
Given how health care reform has been an ostensible Democratic goal for pretty much the whole of the post-war era and that attempts by LBJ and Clinton (who were working with more favorably inclined legislative partners) failed to achieve it, I'll have to agree with you. Unless Obama actually manages to make that shift to climate policy he's been talking about recently. That seems pretty ambitious for his last two years.
For a quick glance at the effects of the Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. "Obamacare") check out this blog post with helpful maps cribbed from the New York Times. The geography is mostly what you'd expect, but there are a few surprises. (WTF, Maine?)
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Perhaps bigot isn't fair....maybe he's just a typical half-black person.
And that got a reference to Admin. A classic jerkish remark, since it includes a blatant racism. Namely the assertion that half-black people "typically" exhibit something easily mistaken for bigotry.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
A blatant what, you say?
[link edited - double http:// made it unreadable. B62.]
[ 29. October 2014, 19:46: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Careful, Pigwidgeon. Commandment 3 prohibitions protect all Shipmates.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
Sorry, Barnabas! I guess I forgot I was in Purg rather than Hell.
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
From my admittedly uninformed understanding this seems completely backward.
Well, the idea is that the three parts of government act as checks and balances on each other. But I think that Congress is deliberately misusing that rather than working out appropriate compromises.
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Romanlion,
If you wish to argue with a hostly statement, this is NOT the place.
Gwai,
Purgatory Host
I wasn't trying to argue. B62 asked me for an example of Barry being a bigot.
I would say that calling his Grandmother a "typical white person" was a good one.
Based on his response to my post I think he must agree.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
[ADMIN]
This doesn't look like the Styx. Oh, right: because it isn't.
Arguing about whether or not you argued about a Hostly ruling is still, technically, arguing about it. So, let's make it clear: when you get back from your suspension, contain all this kind of Crew meta-discussion in The Styx.
Ironic tip of the day: When defending the use of racism, it is wisest to not be defensive.
[/ADMIN]
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Given how health care reform has been an ostensible Democratic goal
And Nixon and Reagan and both Bush's. Did not come to fruition then either, but it did not become Evil until Obama pushed it.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Given how health care reform has been an ostensible Democratic goal
And Nixon and Reagan and both Bush's. Did not come to fruition then either, but it did not become Evil until Obama pushed it.
I think you're confusing things which are serious policy objectives (e.g. LBJ & Clinton's attempts at health care reform) with stalking horse proposals designed to drain away enough support from serious Congressional efforts at reform so that neither plan is able to pass (e.g. all the presidents you mention). Given that Reagan kicked off his political career campaigning against Medicaid, it's particularly egregious to assert that he sincerely supported any kind of health care reform.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
You've a better understanding of this than I, without a doubt. The article I read mentioned their proposals without any depth. My bad for taking that at face value.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Given that Reagan kicked off his political career campaigning against Medicaid, it's particularly egregious to assert that he sincerely supported any kind of health care reform.
Well, to be fair, he wanted reform-- just not the sort that would be helpful to the vast majority of Americans.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anesti:
i believe this speech is an adequate summary.
I played about 26 minutes of that in the background, damn you.
So here's this guy who apparently believes he and his friends should (absent constitutional authority) 'transform America'.
Personally speaking - he's overreaching.
Not to mention lying about the debt.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
quote:
Originally posted by Anesti:
i believe this speech is an adequate summary.
I played about 26 minutes of that in the background, damn you.
So here's this guy who apparently believes he and his friends should (absent constitutional authority) 'transform America'.
Perhaps next time you should pay closer attention. I believe he mentioned 'ordinary people' (as in We the) as transforming America.
But you may be right about his overreaching. And Obama should send his Nobel Peace prize back to the committee.
[ 14. November 2014, 21:49: Message edited by: Porridge ]
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
How many illegal things has this one done? Compared to Bush-2's war crimes of torture, Reagan and Bush-1's illegal smuggling of arms to the Contras via Iran, Clinton's inappropriate sex and lying about it, Carter - did he do something illegal?, Nixon was criminal in so many ways -- who else do you want to list - is this one as bad a criminal?
I find him an uninspiring speaker. A disappointment that he didn't dismantle the criminality of the Bush-2 crew and go after them. He is weak on implementation of anything in the foreign policy arena. Is the latter symptomatic of your country's drift away from democracy and drift into corporations running everything? Where trade is foreign policy and everything doesn't matter? Is the Obama blameworthy for simply being in the tide that started with that Reagan ideology, where, deceitfully, they labelled all things done in the public sphere, government provided services of all types, and all civil services as inefficient and bad if provided via government and efficient and angelic if provided by private companies (save the war-making parts, though that is changing as well with the mercenary military contractors companies)?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Just a quick comment to keep this lame thread going.
The guy personifies 'the insolence of office'.
(Of course, if you can do it perhaps you should. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) )
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
Just a quick comment to keep this lame thread going.
The guy personifies 'the insolence of office'.
I think the word you're looking for is "uppity".
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
Just a quick comment to keep this lame thread going.
The guy personifies 'the insolence of office'.
I think the word you're looking for is "uppity".
*the sound of my jaw dropping*
Way to go, Crœsos.
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
The idea being that each branch of the government would be jealous of its prerogatives and "check" any over-reaching by the other branches, thus preventing tyranny. The general idea was to default to whatever the status quo happened to be whenever there was a dispute or controversial change. I'm not sure Madison or the others anticipated using America's plentiful veto points to deliberately derail the government.
It would be odd if they expected tyrants to try to take over the government with ambition, and yet expected that those same tyrants would be perfectly cooperative and reasonable when it came to holding up the levers of government.
The reason they anticipated tyranny and not non-compliance was not that they expected one and didn't expect the other, but that they judged that only one was a serious threat. The system is working or not working exactly as intended.
The problem is that the political theory of the time didn't take into account industrialisation, mass urbanisation, and the concomitant rise of a welfare state and the necessity for other government administrative functions.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
Just a quick comment to keep this lame thread going.
The guy personifies 'the insolence of office'.
I think the word you're looking for is "uppity".
No... I would have used that word.
Odd though you think that way. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
Just a quick comment to keep this lame thread going.
The guy personifies 'the insolence of office'.
(Of course, if you can do it perhaps you should. )
OK - so, does GWB (291 executive orders) also "personif[y] 'the insolence of office' in comparison to Obama (194 executive orders)? And how do Reagan (381 executive orders), Nixon (346 executive orders), and Eisenhower (484 executive orders) compare?
source
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
Just a quick comment to keep this lame thread going.
The guy personifies 'the insolence of office'.
(Of course, if you can do it perhaps you should. )
OK - so, does GWB (291 executive orders) also "personif[y] 'the insolence of office' in comparison to Obama (194 executive orders)? And how do Reagan (381 executive orders), Nixon (346 executive orders), and Eisenhower (484 executive orders) compare?
source
Also, I'm pretty sure Bush Senior used executive orders to grant amnesty to over a million illegal immigrants? The conservative outrage over Obama's use of the EO betrays a lack of free thinking.
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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
OK - so, does GWB (291 executive orders) also "personif[y] 'the insolence of office' in comparison to Obama (194 executive orders)? And how do Reagan (381 executive orders), Nixon (346 executive orders), and Eisenhower (484 executive orders) compare?
source
Well obviously it's a bit subjective but I'd say any time a POTUS bypasses the democratic process of involving the Legislature to the best of their ability and then unilaterally wield the power of the pen to achieve ends the public by and large isn't in favor of they're pushing it too far.
IMO one variable would be the size or scope of what the EO seeks to achieve: the more it affects the US public (or anyone else, for that matter) the more lightly any POTUS should be treading.
Anyway, I know that Gruber and his statist arrogant ilk revel in their contempt for stupid US citizens but do you really think it should be done quite that egregiously? The shoe will likely be on the other foot some day.
Although I guess you could give them points for honesty... until they backtrack (read: lie through their teeth) once they're caught out. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Finally, for now, and I say this with as much sincerity as I can muster: it's appalling watching the Left (no stone would have been unturned doing all they could to malign W if he had even approached the demonstrated contempt the current administration has for the Constitution) give Obama a pass.
'Liberals', my ass: nothing more than statists. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
(On a lighter note: tonight I will be enjoying the Reverend Horton Heat at Trees in Dallas' renowned Deep Ellum and just happen to have an extra GA ticket, gratis. Doors at 1900 and show at 2000 - please PM if you're interested - TIA.)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
Well obviously it's a bit subjective but I'd say any time a POTUS bypasses the democratic process of involving the Legislature to the best of their ability and then unilaterally wield the power of the pen to achieve ends the public by and large isn't in favor of they're pushing it too far.
A bit subjective?
And are you equating "the public" with "the Congress" or "the Republican Party" or some other group? From where I sit, it looks like at least some of Obama's EOs are measures the public by and large does favor, but that John Boehner refuses to bring before his House. Immigration reform, for example.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by toadstrike:
Personally I like the guy.
His opponents in the last two elections were appalling. As usual the Pres makes up for his inevitable domestic difficulties by doing fairly well on the foreign front. Even Nixon scored there.
Echo. The GOP has been absolutely vicious from the day Obama was inaugurated. They have tried touting "scandal" after scandal and, fortunately, none of them has had legs. I pine for the days of LaFollette in Wisconsin, Scranton in Pennsylvania, Rockefeller in New York. Their successors are creatures from outer space by comparision. Tradition my foot.
History will be kind to Obama. However, I'm not so sure he has been successful on the foreign front. With a stronger leader, I doubt that Putin, for instance, would have proceeded with his adventurism in the Ukraine.
My only disappointments are, first, his harsh attitude towards Edward Snowden; and second, for a man reportedly associated with Sojourners, I was hoping for more evidence of the spiritual insight on our national situation shown by Carter. Morris Berman makes a convincing case (at least to me) that Carter was actually one of our greater Presidents in perceiving that as a people, we are speeding headlong towards a drive off a cliff; and in trying to deflect this fundamental trajectory. He failed, of course; but no President since has even made an attempt, instead just going with the materialistic/consumerist/corporatist flow with varying degrees of enthusiasm.
[ 26. November 2014, 22:16: Message edited by: Alogon ]
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Dear Cheechus,
Please allow me to quote one of my very favorite singer/songwriters: Todd Snider
sometimes you rise above it
sometimes you sneak below
in between believing in Heaven and facing
the devil you know
This time I'm going low. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I just got back from a few days working; that particular job allows me WAY too much time to think, which rarely ends well. Additionally I often get a nearly adequate dose of rabid right wing racist homophobe radio which gets me riled.
That said, as is my wont, I really have stupid on my mind right now (more soon, unrelated to you).
In the interim, be advised I may be bored enough to call you to Hell for your earlier stupid post on this thread - you know the one.
There is some possibility, however slim, that I could be dissuaded should you admit your post was stupid.
I'll wait a day or so for your response.
TIA.
PS: You may not recall it but I'm damn near certain I do - your very first post ever on the Ship on this thread. It was memorable for a variety of reasons.
Later!
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
And I must have botched the url in the post preceding the preceding - sorry. It was supposed to be only the video to The Rev, not that main page.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Anyone presuming Obama is stupid is... well, you know. The guy is a genius.
The very day his flagship Affordable Care Act is demonstrated beyond reasonable debate to be based on intentional deception by and in the US House of Representatives he releases a 'torture' report which dominates the news. You've got to give him credit. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Returning to stupid though might be more amusing. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) (my comments in parentheses)
Issa (definitely not stupid): "Are you stupid?"
Gruber (definitely stupid): "No, I don't think so".
change to different news story
Elijah Cummings (don't know but it's funny): “But worst of all,” the ranking member concluded, “Dr. Gruber’s statements gave Republicans a public relations gift in their relentless political campaign to tear down the ACA and eliminate health care for millions of Americans!”
Yup, the worst thing Gruber did is help Republicans.
All in all, though: how can you not love stupid? ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Your welcome.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
In the interim, be advised I may be bored enough to call you to Hell for your earlier stupid post on this thread - you know the one.
There is some possibility, however slim, that I could be dissuaded should you admit your post was stupid.
Issuing ultimatums ahead of threatened Hell calls is out of Purgatory bounds. Kindly stay within them in all respects or visit Hell directly.
/hosting
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Issuing ultimatums ahead of threatened Hell calls is out of Purgatory bounds. Kindly stay within them in all respects or visit Hell directly.
Oopsie.
You have my apology.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Dal Segno
al Fine
# 14673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
Well obviously it's a bit subjective but I'd say any time a POTUS bypasses the democratic process of involving the Legislature to the best of their ability and then unilaterally wield the power of the pen to achieve ends the public by and large isn't in favor of they're pushing it too far.
I would say that, if the POTUS can bypass the Legislature, then either it is perfectly democratic (i.e., the POTUS is the democratically-elected representative of all the people*) or there is something wrong with the Constitution.
-DS
* It's "one man one vote". He's the man. He has the vote.
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Yet ever and anon a trumpet sounds
Posts: 1200 | From: Pacific's triple star | Registered: Mar 2009
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dal Segno:
If the POTUS can bypass the Legislature, then . . . there is something wrong with the Constitution.
Understatement of the year. A Constitution that allows legislators to retain their seats when they have publicly sworn to block all that the President proposes simply because they don't like him personally is indeed seriously flawed.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
Dear Cheechus
Well, moron, now you've come clean in Hell, here's another Hostly guideline.
Messing around with Crœsos' Shipname is also a a non-no. Within very broad limits you can do what you like to express annoyance in Hell (in fact you have) but lay off the nameplay games here. A rule which applies to all of us.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
PS Please also see this
[ 12. December 2014, 16:58: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Clint Boggis
Shipmate
# 633
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Posted
Relaxing hostility towards Cuba is a positive for Obama, though it's still a real shame that most brutality in Cuba in recent years has been in the area leased by the US military.
If Obama could ensure the US veto on UN recognition of Palestine as a state was withheld, it would be a concrete step towards a two-state solution. That would be good for his name in history.
Posts: 1505 | From: south coast | Registered: Jun 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
B62,
Again I apologize.
I guess I thought 'Cheechus' was fair game on a thread where people were posting allegations of racism.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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