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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Do your special diet choices constitute gluttony? (Vegan, gluten etc)
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
I guess we should be grateful that Marathassa dumped her bunker C fuel into the harbour, not her grain cargo.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
There are certain foods I try to steer clear of because I have Type 2 diabetes and foods aren't forbidden as much as they should just be avoided so my blood glucose doesn't shoot into the stratosphere. But managing my diabetes is on me not anyone else. When I was first diagnosed a few years ago, I thought people should accommodate me and was appalled at a family reunion when my sisters and their husbands all brought rich iced cakes and pop-tarts by the truckload to share with everyone but I wasn't "allowed" any of those things and I moped. Such a first world problem! I moaned and sulked and then saw how I had acted when a member of our church did the same thing, causing a big stink after service one day. I had to have my behavior mirrored back to me for me to understand how petty and childish I was being. Any diet or restriction can be a big pain in the ass for others if the person who is on said diet or restriction isn't gracious about it. Now I know to bring my own snacks and prepare my own meals when I'm at family or other gatherings. I think it's a sin to be such a little gobshite to other people and make them feel bad because you can't or won't permit yourself to have something. I feel kind of annoyed at all these anti-peanut people, too, but that's another jar of peanut butter for another time.
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Eating out with others can be a pain in the arse for me. I can't stand garlic. It makes me gag. Everyone else seems to love it. Another is mayonaise. Vile muck. If I ever get invited to eat anywhere I get very nervous, especially since I don't want to offend those who have taken time to prepare food but neither can I force myself to eat things I dislike intensely.
I know exactly what you mean! When I lived in Seattle, I met loads of lovely people, some of whom are still my friends. But almost to a man (or woman), they were all garlic fiends. Now, I like a tiny little bit of garlic in Italian dishes and maybe a pinch in my Mexican food and pico de gallo but that's it, end of story. These folks, oh my god...they put a ton of garlic in everything! Yuck! I cannot abide the smell of garlic when it's more than one half clove. These same friends think nothing of putting several cloves of garlic in chicken noodle soup! Gross! It makes me throw up. If I'm out in public and I walk past restaurants that are primarily Asian, I have to hold my breath or I'll throw up.
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
... A stranger's desire to make a child momentarily happy should override a parent's effort to train the child in values the parent thinks important? A neighbor has a sugar-free house and battles constantly the efforts of relatives and strangers to give her child candy and cookies to "make the child happy." (Actually, one uncle said he brings candy because he wants the child to like him, self-interest.)
When did parental values in rearing a child become something to dismiss instead of respect?...
Maybe when some parents decided that minimizing their use of sugar or plastic bags was a PARENTAL VALUE!!! TA-ta-da-DAAAA! entitling them to ostentatiously demonstrate their moral superiority ("were sugar-free nyah-nyah"), rather than asking nicely for support ("I know you mean well, but please don't give my kid candy").
And when the person offering candy to the sugar-free kid insists and tries to push around the parent or sneak the candy to the kid when the parent isn't looking?
Relatives and caretakers and neighbors and passersby can be amazingly pushy about imposing their values on someone else's kid! "There's nothing wrong with sugar" or "he'll like it" or "I just want to see him smile" or as with the uncle "I want him to like me." (Kids allergic to peanuts get fed peanuts when the parent is out of sight, in spite of being warned, for these reasons, too.) If a parent says no, ostentatious or not that decision should not be bypassed by outsiders unless there's a danger in complying.
"I think the parent is being ostentatious so I will thumb my nose at the parent's clearly expressed wishes about the child?"
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I have to confess something. I went to my aged aunt's house for a rare visit a few years ago. She had made a coffee cake at who knows what amount of trouble to her 90 something self. I declined since I was on a no-sugar diet, and because I knew my husband and son would eat nice big pieces. But I could see she was hurt and I've felt bad about it ever since.
This is a problem, the hostess who made "just for you" a food you have adverse reactions to.
One friend addicts quickly to chocolate, at a birthday gathering friends brought a chocolate birthday cake because "everyone loves chocolate" - and a birthday person is expected to eat the first slice. Should she eat it and suffer a week of headache withdrawal from chocolate again?
I sleep poorly if I've eaten sugar. Does the elderly person who made the special dessert intend to cause me a sleepless night? Or intend to reawaken the sugar cravings which are hard to quiet again?
If someone spent a lot of money on a special bottle of wine which they open just for you, but you are on the wagon, are you supposed to take up drinking again?
I hope graciousness doesn't require letting someone else dictate that you change your behavior in ways you think not good for you! But I admit being confused how best to handle the "I did it just for you" when the "it" is something I'm avoiding (with difficulty and determination) for carefully chosen reasons. No matter how gently you say no, you are not fulfilling their expectations. Neither side wants to hurt the other but hurt results.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
Not to belittle those who are genuinely sensitive to gluten, but this article pokes fun at those jumping on the gluten-free bandwagon as a health fad:
Portland Gluten Scare
Aha! I've been having a stomach upset this week - yesterday I ate steak, chips and red wine with no ill effects (OK, a bit of a headache), but threw up after a scone and coffee. Clearly, therefore, caffeine and gluten are Bad, red meat, carb, fat,salt and alcohol Fine.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
This is a problem, the hostess who made "just for you" a food you have adverse reactions to.
Really? I mean, I know everybody probably has at least one relative who someone manages to make it all about them while telling you it's all about you, but don't most people ask about dietary restrictions before making something "just for you"? And if you apologize and explain why you can't have what they're offering you, don't most people admit that they made it because they wanted an excuse to make sugary/fatty/somehow bad-for you dish?
quote:
One friend addicts quickly to chocolate, at a birthday gathering friends brought a chocolate birthday cake because "everyone loves chocolate" - and a birthday person is expected to eat the first slice. Should she eat it and suffer a week of headache withdrawal from chocolate again?
When making a birthday cake for someone, don't most people either already know or inquire about the person's preferences?
quote:
I sleep poorly if I've eaten sugar. Does the elderly person who made the special dessert intend to cause me a sleepless night? Or intend to reawaken the sugar cravings which are hard to quiet again?
Clearly they do intend you harm. I mean, it can't possibly have anything to do with them likely having lived through a time when sugar was a precious commodity. When you say 'much as I'd love to,' or 'as good as that looks' and 'sugar just doesn't agree with me,' the elderly person forces you to eat it anyway, right? Thus demonstrating their intent to harm.
quote:
If someone spent a lot of money on a special bottle of wine which they open just for you, but you are on the wagon, are you supposed to take up drinking again?
Who are these people who spend a lot of money on a bottle of wine for someone without knowing them well enough to know that they don't drink? (And can I become friends with them?) Who opens a bottle of wine without saying 'I was thinking of opening this bottle,' thus giving people the chance to tell them whether or not they drink?
quote:
No matter how gently you say no, you are not fulfilling their expectations. Neither side wants to hurt the other but hurt results.
If that's the case, then I'm going to suggest that people may be calibrating their hurt-o-meters a little too sensitively. Most hosts I've known make an effort to offer a variety of food and beverage options (for large groups) with the understanding that not everyone is going to be interested in everything for whatever reason and the hope that everyone can find something they can eat. Or they ask about special dietary needs when they invite a small group of people to dinner. Mostly they're worried about not fulfilling the needs of their guests, not about whether or not a particular person ate a particular thing.
OTOH I go to a lot of pot-lucks, because so many people are on so many crazy different diets, the only way to guarantee there's something for everyone is if everyone brings something they can eat.
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I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
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Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
After thinking about it, I think my avoiding a gluten free diet would more correctly called glutteny rather than gluttony.
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Glory be! I agree with saysay!
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
A few of my friends are on the keto diet (essentially zero carbs — I think it's less than 20g per day if you're being strict).
This doesn't mesh well with vegetarian (my diet), although I've got quite adept at cooking the few things that do work.
Sometimes (actually quite often) it means we can't go to a certain restaurant. Lots of places just can't produce food with no carbs.
The times it annoys me are when a restaurant can cater for the keto people, with a little variation (such as serving the steak with cauliflower cheese, which is also on the menu elsewhere, instead of chips)… but the person in question refuses to ask them to do that, because they're shy and don't want to cause a fuss. We end up with a situation where we either go to the restaurant anyway and piss off the person on the diet, or we avoid the restaurant, and it's yet another place that becomes off limits.
Finding a restaurant where there are keto dishes on the menu without needing variation is rare. So IMO if you are on the keto diet and want to go to restaurants with friends, you should be proactive in finding restaurants to go to, to ensure you can eat something, and you should be prepared to explain your diet to the serving staff so that they can accommodate you. If you're not prepared to explain it, you can't then sulk that there's nothing to eat.
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
On reflection, I think Lewis was identifying a form of idolatry, or materialism. Gluttony is more a sort of food-lust. Whereas most specialist diets have their roots in a real or perceived aversion or sensitivity.
Two of our oldest friends have special dietary requirements for health reasons. Preparing meals is a bit of a headache, but they are great company and sometimes bring food along (e.g. gluten-free bread) to help out. When we eat with them, they make reciprocal efforts.
Now I am prone to gluttony; love food, have a slow metabolism, need to watch my weight. So I guess I have special dietary requirements as well - nearly all of them subject to the struggle for self-control. Mostly I follow Slimming World guidelines, which have worked for me, helped to stabilise my weight and my seafood habits ("see food, eat it"). But I try not to get obsessive about it. Sometimes I succeed!
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Amorya--
Just a thought: are there any buffet restaurants around? More choices available. FWIW.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Hebdom
Shipmate
# 14685
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Posted
Just to add that some non-coeliac people who avoid wheat and opt for gluten free food actually have irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). What they are sensitive to is not the gluten in the wheat but fructans. This article explains it in some detail.
If you are in this situation a low FODMAP diet may help. Oh, and just eating gluten free food is no solution because gluten free food can still be high in substances like fructose.
/end of plea for tolerance
Posts: 163 | From: Terra australis | Registered: Mar 2009
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
IANAD
However, before anyone is diagnosed with IBS it is good practice to have them tested for Coeliac (I have this on the authority of two medical doctors). IBS is not a single disease, but a set of symptoms, I suspect associated with an inflamed gut, and many of these symptoms overlap with Coeliac. The diagnosis of IBS is, therefore, the fallback diagnosis when the doctor can find no other causal relationship.
Just for information my sister has IBS diagnosis and we (she & me) suspect that it related to my lactose intolerance. You would have to know the two of us to understand why we think this; apart from the fact that lactose intolerance can also cause IBS style symptoms.
Jengie
[ 20. April 2015, 11:29: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Amorya--
Just a thought: are there any buffet restaurants around? More choices available. FWIW.
There are, but they cost double, and everyone tends to end up eating a lot more in order to get their money's worth. Fine for a special occasion but not for a casual meal out.
Pub grub tends to be the best bet — there's normally some kind of meat platter, and I'm usually happy with the vegetarian options these days. (Anywhere that has veggie lasagna as the only veggie dish tends to rile me, because that used to be the token option back in the 90s before vegetarianism was very common… but most pubs are better than that now.)
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
The times it annoys me are when a restaurant can cater for the keto people, with a little variation (such as serving the steak with cauliflower cheese, which is also on the menu elsewhere, instead of chips)… but the person in question refuses to ask them to do that, because they're shy and don't want to cause a fuss.
They need to get over that by remembering the waiter is there to serve, anything in the kitchen is available, the restaurant will cheerfully come up with a price.
A friend who waitered a while said he loved special orders, they meant bigger tips because people were pleased to be able to have what they want. Even in non-tip countries, it's no extra work, really.
I have vegetarian friends who look at all the "comes with" items and tell the waiter they are vegetarians and would like - and then name foods that show up on the menu, assembling a vegetarian plate. No waiter has ever fussed.
But I have been in restaurants where a friend can't eat anything on the menu, she's both wheat and milk intolerant, every dish is based on wheat (noodles, sandwiches) and slathered with cheese, the soups are all cream soups or noodle soups.
It's hard to be on a counter-cultural diet! The internet is a help, check out the menu ahead of time. Or find an ethnic group with foods that fit your diets. One friend always eats out Chinese because he knows there will be something on the menu he can eat with his diet.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Hebdom
Shipmate
# 14685
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Posted
What Jengie said.
IANAD either, but what you say about lactose intolerance makes perfect sense to me.
One word of warning, a low FODMAP diet is not for the faint hearted and should be prescribed by a specialist dietitian on referral from a GP.
Posts: 163 | From: Terra australis | Registered: Mar 2009
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Soror Magna: quote:
Maybe when some parents decided that minimizing their use of sugar or plastic bags was a PARENTAL VALUE!!! TA-ta-da-DAAAA! entitling them to ostentatiously demonstrate their moral superiority ("were sugar-free nyah-nyah"), rather than asking nicely for support ("I know you mean well, but please don't give my kid candy").
Well, sure, but sometimes people make assumptions that are simply wrong. My daughter doesn't like sweets or cake (unnatural child). I am sure at least half the people who have their well-meant offers of treats rejected think we are horrible parents who don't allow her to eat these things, but she really doesn't like them. Should she force the Haribos down to avoid hurting these people's feelings?
In a situation where sweets are being handed out to all and sundry (eg in party bags), we have told her to accept them with thanks and pass them on to someone who does like them at the first opportunity. But this isn't always possible.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Amorya--
Just a thought: are there any buffet restaurants around? More choices available. FWIW.
There are, but they cost double, and everyone tends to end up eating a lot more in order to get their money's worth. Fine for a special occasion but not for a casual meal out.
Pub grub tends to be the best bet — there's normally some kind of meat platter, and I'm usually happy with the vegetarian options these days. (Anywhere that has veggie lasagna as the only veggie dish tends to rile me, because that used to be the token option back in the 90s before vegetarianism was very common… but most pubs are better than that now.)
even further back all you were offered as a veggie was a limp cheese salad..
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My brother and son are both veggie, but neither treat it as a religion. If they are given meat at a meal, they eat it without comment.
An excellent attitude imo.
My brother lives with us three days a week and we always eat veggie on those days. But, if we didn't, he'd eat whatever we were eating.
If they eat meat when given a meal, they are not vegetarian. Surely the excellent attitude would be for hosts to actually be good hosts and respect dietary requirements? Would you expect a Jewish person to just eat shellfish or pork?
It is incredibly rude to knowingly serve vegetarians meat.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I am someone who may need a low FODMAP diet (have been referred to a dietician by the gastro specialist at the hospital after negative coeliac tests and internal biopsies, so all above board). I am dreading eating out! I already have to cut out beans/pulses and wholemeal bread so somewhat used to awkward dietary choices.
I would be a vegetarian if I could, but cutting out pulses would make it extremely difficult, especially regarding eating out.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Pomona: quote:
It is incredibly rude to knowingly serve vegetarians meat.
I agree. My prefered way of accommodating a vegetarian guest is to make the veggie side dish a veggie casserole. Example: make a broccoli casserole, give a scoop of it with the meat for the omnivores at the table, and a larger portion for the vegetarian(s), along with potato and salad for all. Voila! everyone's fed.
On the other hand, vegetarians as good guests will refrain from lecturing everyone else on how terrible their food choices are.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
If they eat meat when given a meal, they are not vegetarian. Surely the excellent attitude would be for hosts to actually be good hosts and respect dietary requirements? Would you expect a Jewish person to just eat shellfish or pork?
It is incredibly rude to knowingly serve vegetarians meat.
As I said - I never do.
My brother and son are vegetarian, it is not their religion 'tho - it's their food choice. Big difference imo.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
I am dreading eating out! I already have to cut out beans/pulses and wholemeal bread so somewhat used to awkward dietary choices.
I've been to church pot lucks where there is nothing a wheat avoiding or dairy avoiding person can eat, or an MSG allergic person can trust.
Then there's the dessert table, preacher says "remember we have lots of diabetics" so people make desserts with fake sugars and don't think to warn those who react badly to Splenda et al, but with no sign on the pudding the no-sugar folks don't know if it's safe for them!
Once in my life I attended a pot luck where everyone put a recipe card in front of the dish. I usually attach a list of ingredients so anyone with dietary limits can tell if it's edible for them, I'm the only one I know who does that except for an occasional dish bears a warning it's spicy hot.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
If they eat meat when given a meal, they are not vegetarian. Surely the excellent attitude would be for hosts to actually be good hosts and respect dietary requirements? Would you expect a Jewish person to just eat shellfish or pork?
It is incredibly rude to knowingly serve vegetarians meat.
As I said - I never do.
My brother and son are vegetarian, it is not their religion 'tho - it's their food choice. Big difference imo.
Apologies for misreading your post.
It is really unhelpful for genuine vegetarians if people expect them to make exceptions for politeness' sake though, akin to being expected to eat fish or even chicken.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
I am dreading eating out! I already have to cut out beans/pulses and wholemeal bread so somewhat used to awkward dietary choices.
I've been to church pot lucks where there is nothing a wheat avoiding or dairy avoiding person can eat, or an MSG allergic person can trust.
Then there's the dessert table, preacher says "remember we have lots of diabetics" so people make desserts with fake sugars and don't think to warn those who react badly to Splenda et al, but with no sign on the pudding the no-sugar folks don't know if it's safe for them!
Once in my life I attended a pot luck where everyone put a recipe card in front of the dish. I usually attach a list of ingredients so anyone with dietary limits can tell if it's edible for them, I'm the only one I know who does that except for an occasional dish bears a warning it's spicy hot.
Potlucks are less common over here but yes, huge problems with labelling and also cross-contamination. Often someone with coeliac disease cannot share butter or spreads or anything that's been in contact with a knife or plate that's been in contact with bread, for example. This is why one chalice and no gluten-free bread/wafer is an issue - they can't receive in one kind because the chalice is contaminated.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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cynic girl
Shipmate
# 13844
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
I would add, on the 'food faddiness because of Aspergers' line, that people with Aspergers can have a variety of reasons for finding certain foods difficult - digestive difficulties are very common, and some textures can cause pain or nausea. And processing differences make the world seem chaotic, and so someone forcing you to eat something that is causing you pain or discomfort feels very intrusive when you already have no sense of control over anything. It's like a violation of your body. (I like to clarify the sorts of reasons why people with Aspergers can be 'faddy' - because just saying 'because of Aspergers' doesn't really explain it.)
That's a very clear way to put it. People often get very angry with me for my eating difficulties related to Asperger's. In reality, though, I do everything I can to mitigate difficulties for hosts. When they *ask* what I don't eat, I give them the (long) list - but I also say I'm happy to bring something. I bring gluten-free bread and pasta to people's houses (I'm non-coeliac gluten-intolerant - gluten causes me very nasty migraines). I've happily brought complete pre-cooked meals with me, free from the vegetables and spices I can't tolerate, with enough for everyone who is coming.
But, ultimately, if a host wants me at their house, they're going to have to deal with the whole package of me - disability included. Just as they'll need to turn down their radio and turn off their TV, and just as I'll need access to a downstairs loo and a seat that doesn't cause me physical pain, I'll also need food I can eat. It's not actually relevant what causes that need. It simply exists. And there are plenty of people who no longer invite me to their houses, and that's fine. I often invite people to mine, and I only cook what they are able to eat.
What society calls fussy, some of us call disability (or another kind of difference from the norm).
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Currently recruiting for ethnographic research into the experiences of disabled Christians or those with health problems.
Posts: 150 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2008
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Esmeralda
Ship's token UK Mennonite
# 582
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Posted
Well said cynic girl. My 20 year old son is Aspie and eats no fruit (not even jam!) and very few veg. I'm pretty sure that it's the textures more than the taste, as he's often happy to eat things flavoured with fruit. Sometimes it's colour as well, but he does eat several green things: cucumber, lettuce, celery.
I can remember not liking citrus fruit as a child, and I had to leave the house every time my mother cooked marmalade, so I can understand why he leaves the room when I eat a satsuma. Incidentally I myself am on mostly gluten free and low dairy for IBS. And my dad had a lot of digestive problems, so I do think there's a genetic component.
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I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand.
http://reversedstandard.wordpress.com/
Posts: 17415 | From: A small island nobody pays any attention to | Registered: Jun 2001
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OliviaCA
Shipmate
# 18399
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Posted
I don't think that the C S Lewis example or people who insist on gf, ( or vegan, etc ) food fall into the category of gluttony, because they don't seem to me to be about food, and surely that is the definition of gluttony, that food itself is too important to someone.
The woman in C S Lewis' example and people on gf diets etc are thinking about their health, surely, or seeking attention, or have a need to control ( what enters their body, perhaps with good reason, or to organise/control other people, etc ).
Is there a sin-label for thinking too much about one's health? When a food might make the difference between depression and coping; insomnia and a good night's sleep; damage to one's thyroid and none. Preferring not to take the risk.
I'm surprised that C S Lewis didn't realise that it wasn't about the food, at all, ( who would want weak tea and dry toast, instead of cakes, a full meal, etc if they really thought too much about food? ) and that therefore it couldn't possibly be classified as gluttony.
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[ 26. May 2015, 12:04: Message edited by: OliviaCA ]
Posts: 91 | From: Europe | Registered: May 2015
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Augustine the Aleut
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I have friends who have some very serious food allergy problems, and one (perhaps two!) for whom their food issues are reflective of deeper issues. I am always able to manage this without trouble, primarily by putting a few serving dishes on the table from which people can compose their own plates. When the wheat allergy graduate student (WAGS for short) comes for lunch, I am careful about bread etc, and ensuring that plates etc went through the washer just before serving but otherwise guests have to put up with each other (much like life).
A young relation was troublesome and problematic with her parents about her food, to the point where they wondered if professional help was needed, but I never knew, as she cheerfully hoovered down whatever I had prepared for her. This was perhaps an instance of food as weapon or means of control, which I would see as a form of gluttony.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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OliviaCA
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PS. to my post above:
Unless Lewis meant that all the sins are about seeing/perceiving power in things other than God, ( whether money, physical beauty, or food ).
And the "tea and toast request" is a sin by virtue of how it is used as an almost religious ritual, to achieve satisfaction/happiness/salvation, etc.
I do wonder this sometimes about my own dietary exclusions. Are they functioning like a magic ritual in my life, to stave off "bad things" ...
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[ 26. May 2015, 12:14: Message edited by: OliviaCA ]
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OliviaCA
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What is a sin anyway? And the "Seven Deadlies" in particular? They're an invention, a collections of things/behaviours which various people at various times have thought that certain people did too much of, and/or suffered from in that interfered with relationship with God/was sign of poor relationship with God.
You could say that worrying, about anything was as much of a sin, or even the one over-arching one for all of the "seven deadlies" , whatever it applied to, ( health, money, food, beauty, etc ).
ie. believing that anything at all other than God has the power to make you happy/"save you"/make things better is an error; making food etc into a mini-god, with power over one/over life-the world.
And yet I do it all the time, don't eat x because y; do do z because a, want more money because b, etc.
I think that the underlying fundamental "sin"/lack of or separation in C S Lewis's example is fear/worry, someone who can't deal with what they're offered, isn't comfortable in the social setting without these rituals/routine reactions/impositions on others, needs their little "gods" to reassure them, etc.
And ( as I said above ) I do wonder about my excluding gluten, avoiding dairy and sugar etc, how bad my relationship with God is, how far away I am from trusting in God ( my "real self" ) to handle things, to feed and clothe me, as the character Jesus says God will, because it's certainly not "me" that is organising that ...
... or whether my apparent reactions to gluten, etc are "real", part of the kingdom of heaven; have genuine correlates in the interactions between particles, waves, energy etc, and excluding gluten, avoiding dairy, sugar etc, are necessary disciplines, part of aligning myself more with God ..
... I have definitely noticed that when I eat gluten ( and lots of sugar, or dairy, coffee, etc ), I seem to lose touch with God/my "real self"; seem to forget the connection. It becomes faint or disappears totally. I usually put this down to cytokines ( immune system reaction/inflammation ) and food opioid effects! :lol ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
And food exclusion has been an incredible tool, a discipline which made me notice, notice , notice. And taught me how much my behaviour is caused by food too ... ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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[ 27. May 2015, 09:36: Message edited by: OliviaCA ]
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