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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Church, without God.
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starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25
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Posted
Imagine this scenario...
It is a Sunday, but not any typical Sunday, it is the Sunday after 'The Event'.
This 'Event' turned the world on it's head, it was the day that something happened that categorically proved to every human on earth that there is no God.
Let's not go into the nature of the event, or even if such an event could even be possible, for the sake of the scenario let's just assume it did.
My question is, on this Sunday, and the weeks and months and years that follow what would happen to the Church.
What shape would it take, what shape COULD it take? Would it even continue to exist? What would it's function be, and how could it adapt?
Neil
Posts: 6009 | From: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. | Registered: May 2001
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
Initially, churches would no doubt still meet, if only for people to support each other in the aftermath of such an event.
Longer term, maybe some churches would re-form themselves into social action organisations? Much good work has been done in this area, would the lack of God be a reason to abandon it?
If the lack of God would cause people to abandon good works, that’s another topic in itself.
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by starbelly:
My question is, on this Sunday, and the weeks and months and years that follow what would happen to the Church.
Well, in your scenario, I wouldn't be showing up to worship someone I knew didn't exist, and I don't suppose many other people would, either.
Sunday meeting atheist "churches" seem to be of minority interest - I don't see the church continuing on those lines.
Your scenario would leave the churches as custodians of a lot of buildings - some of historical/architectural merit, and some not, and in at least some churches, a lot of cash.
I think most people are basically decent, and that the basically decent people would want to oversee an orderly winding-down of the church's finances, with appropriate disposal of its assets.
A lot of church buildings would become community meeting halls and the like; there would be a lot of wrangling over which charities should benefit, and a significant number of scumbags trying to make a quick buck.
The charity issue raises other questions - many charities are Christian, and may or may not be able to keep their eye on the ball when the whole world decides simultaneously that Christ is a lie.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Bibaculus
Shipmate
# 18528
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Posted
Mass wouldn't have much meaning. The Host would not be the Body of Christ. if the priest was there, I would be surprised. Or maybe not, because I wouldn't be there to see if she turned up or not.
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A jumped up pantry boy who never knew his place
Posts: 257 | From: In bed. Mostly. When I can get away with it. | Registered: Dec 2015
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
I cannot imagine what could happen that would prove the non-existence of God.
In any case, this would make no difference to the non-theistic religions.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I cannot imagine what could happen that would prove the non-existence of God.
I think it would have to be some sort of global mind control thing orchestrated by the Illuminati, or perhaps by aliens....
What would happen to a bunch of half-empty church buildings in an already secularised Western country would be the very least of our troubles at that point!
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I cannot imagine what could happen that would prove the non-existence of God.
It would have to be about as incredible as the event that could prove the EXISTENCE of God. In other words, you'd come away from it believing, if not in God, then still something pretty freaking out of this world.
[ 09. February 2016, 15:21: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Read the OPs plea to avoid that line and knew it would be ignored. But even my cynical mind is a bit surprised it didn't last even 10 posts.
but anyway
Churches would have an immediate mass loss of members, with a few hanging on in shock. Those would soon disappear and then the arguing what do do with the buildings would begin.
Though churches serve a community function as well as religious, the modern world doesn't need them too.
i don't think the fate of the churches (institutions) or churches (communities) is a great mystery. They would become cultural artifacts quite quickly.
More interesting, to me, would be the psychological aftermath. But this is a tangent as well.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
A clergy person told me we cannot know if God exists because if there is a God, God is so different from us we cannot know anything about God. But, he said, the ritual is beautiful in itself and must be preserved for that reason whether or not there's any God.
(TEC, roughly 1990)
Many/most humans seem to "need" ritual, we do flag ceremonies and scout ceremonies and Masonic ceremonies and holiday rituals (often labeled "traditions" rather than "rituals").
If all churches closed something else would pop up to satisfy the need for ritual.
More likely than all churches closing, some churches would stay open as long as they could afford the site, evolving into lecture or concert or debate or performance art societies or as someone said social groups or social service groups.
YMCA started as a Christian group, Yale university started as a school for clergy if I remember right, March of Dimes goal used to be cure polio; nothing unusual about an existing well functioning organization evolving in purpose or even intentionally finding a different purpose and continuing in that new direction.
But given human tendency to cling to a belief regardless of proof, nothing could convince 100% of people there is no God, or no UFOs, or that human landed on the moon.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Church choir is the best thing I do all week. It gets my brain working in a different way, it allows me to be part of a team working towards something, and it allows me to be part of producing a specific thing that brings people joy. I would be very sad to lose it, as would most of the other volunteer members of my choir. So I could easily see us sticking it out, assuming that we could still come up with the money (and we do pretty much fund ourselves outside of the normal church budget, so we might just be able to do that). Choral evensong with the Howells Gloucester service would still be a remarkable and relaxing thing to hear, even if the words were proven beyond a doubt to be about an imaginary deity. (One of our members remembers that in her Atheist days, she still had to sing "Come ye faithful raise the strain" on Easter because it was just plain fun.)
I could honestly see my church sticking it out, resembling more of a Unitarian gathering than a sacrament focused Episcopal church from a belief perspective. Many of our members have been atheists or agnostic in the past, and many found us because, while they weren't quite sure that they believed in anything, they thought the service was beautiful, they found a nice group of people, and they saw that we were doing good things in the community. So it probably wouldn't even be a huge shock to the system.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I cannot imagine what could happen that would prove the non-existence of God.
It would have to be about as incredible as the event that could prove the EXISTENCE of God. In other words, you'd come away from it believing, if not in God, then still something pretty freaking out of this world.
Yes, I think many people would focus their devotions on whatever - or whoever - it was that had convinced them there was no God. Their religious buildings could then serve this different purpose.
Moreover, if senior religious leaders were initiated into the 'secret' long before the laity it would give them time to devise some sort of theological response that would prevent the collapse of their institutions.
Considering the potential influence of the Pope even among non-RC Christians I imagine it would be very hard for church leaders of other denominations to resist entering into some sort of pact with the Vatican, depending on how awful the alternatives might be.
It sounds like the plot of a futuristic novel, though.
(And what the Muslims would do, or the Jews? The former would have to be convinced as well, or else they'd be perfectly placed to benefit from the collapse of monotheistic Christianity.)
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
I wouldn't bother.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Those with modern, useful buildings would turn into community centres, I hope.
I think our own Church community would grow. Far, far more people turn up to community events than worship events, even without the proof that there is no God.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
quote:
Let's not go into the nature of the event, or even if such an event could even be possible, for the sake of the scenario let's just assume it did.
The contradiction in stating (the obvious) that the thread is based on nonsense, is Why post then?
But you could take a believable scenario: What would happen is a government decreed the non-existence of God, and made belief illegal. There is probably useful data on what happens in that case.
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anteater:
quote:
Let's not go into the nature of the event, or even if such an event could even be possible, for the sake of the scenario let's just assume it did.
The contradiction in stating (the obvious) that the thread is based on nonsense, is Why post then?
But you could take a believable scenario: What would happen is a government decreed the non-existence of God, and made belief illegal. There is probably useful data on what happens in that case.
That is a totally and completely different thing. Not even in the same ballpark as the OP.
I will rephrase in what I think the OP is on about.
What purpose does the Church serve other than preventing God getting a good sleep in on the weekends?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
The only event that could do this is the return of Christ.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Those with modern, useful buildings would turn into community centres, I hope.
I think our own Church community would grow. Far, far more people turn up to community events than worship events, even without the proof that there is no God.
IMO, it depends on the community. The more immersive types would have more of an issue. There is a reason why the term "recovering Catholic" exists.
But one problem on this website (for this question) is that the typical user here doesn't represent the typical church goer. We have a much higher percentage of people active far beyond the typical congregant.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Church choir is the best thing I do all week. It gets my brain working in a different way, it allows me to be part of a team working towards something, and it allows me to be part of producing a specific thing that brings people joy. I would be very sad to lose it, as would most of the other volunteer members of my choir.
A community choir meets in our Church building - you could easily turn into one of those ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Churches at the very moderate or liberal end of the spectrum are already housing clergy or members who are tolerant of unorthodox understandings of God's existence. After a convocation or two they might decide that their social and spiritual calling ought to continue, regardless of any proofs of God's non-existence.
But all else being equal (i.e. no known alien or Illuminati involvement, or governmental oppression, etc.) a lot of people would, I think, choose to leave. After all, there are many other uplifting ways to serve the world, and not everyone loves the aesthetics or the social life of their church so much that they'd willingly overlook what they discover to be serious theological errors.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by starbelly:
This 'Event' turned the world on it's head, it was the day that something happened that categorically proved to every human on earth that there is no God.
I guess my question is whether that's all that it proved. In other words, did it also prove the non-existence of all spiritual (for lack of a better word) forces or aspects of life. Did it also prove the non-existence of any form of afterlife, including reincarnation? Did it prove only the non-existence of God in the general Abrahamic understanding, or did it prove the non-existence of anything that might be described as The Divine?
Depending on the answers to these additional questions, my hunch is that the aftermath of The Event would see some growth—though perhaps not so much as to equal earlier membership in churches—in those religious groups where belief in God is optional or beside the point. Perhaps there would be a lot more Buddhists and Unitarian-Universalists in the world.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Church choir is the best thing I do all week. It gets my brain working in a different way, it allows me to be part of a team working towards something, and it allows me to be part of producing a specific thing that brings people joy. I would be very sad to lose it, as would most of the other volunteer members of my choir.
A community choir meets in our Church building - you could easily turn into one of those
We have a very specific repertoire; would we dump it for more general show choir music? I don't think so. We are attached to the music that we sing and the context in which we sing it. The combination of the two has some value even if the words are not true. I could honestly see people wanting to come to choral evensong just because it provides 45 minutes of musical peace at the end of the day, especially if the foundation of their world had just been rocked by "the event".
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I suspect that after the Event, there will be quite a number of people saying "fuck it, if God doesn't exist, we'll invent Him!"
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
A bit tangential, but ...
Highly recommended is Flannery O'Connor's novel 'Wise Blood,' wherein one of the characters establishes a street ministry called 'The Church of Christ Without Christ.' (Way too complicated to try to explain here, but well worth reading, IMO.)
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I think our own Church community would grow. Far, far more people turn up to community events than worship events, even without the proof that there is no God.
That wouldn't surprise me either. I think such an event would take a lot of pressure off. People wouldn't be afraid of God botherers trying to convert them.
Then, also on the plus side, there would be no more fall outs over what God does or doesn't think, or want. Such an event might even stop Muslims from killing each other.
Could change my my sig, 'without God rather more things are possible'.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Of course, this is one of those silly "what-if" questions that are essentially unanswerable.
Still no harm in stirring this into the pot, I suppose:
If the NT events are anything to go by (and, I think it is possible to look at other religious groups who have faced similar things with a similar progression), I suspect "true believers" will experience something like the Kübler-Ross stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.
Of course in the NT example, the acceptance stage was immediately followed by the resurrection and reinvigoration of the movement as it evolved into something else. I'm also not quite sure about the bargaining came in.
Anyway, I think we see something similar in religious movements as they face evidence that they're completely wrong: for example when the Second Coming doesn't, well, come. When God does not supply new believers so the movement begins to die. When early enthusiasm begins to wane as prophesies are not fulfilled. When the government tells you that religion is illegal and smashes any memory of it.
So I think if there was some great event, and we're feeling generous and accept that most church congregations actually believe something of what they profess, then they'll scatter. In that scenario, I think it is very unlikely that church buildings would be available to be used by other organisations because the congregations are the thing that keep them alive. Some might survive if choirs can be persuaded to pay for their upkeep, I suspect many would be left to rack and ruin.
In time, we'd probably see mutations of the beliefs starting to develop - some perhaps like the Gotō Island Kakure Kirishitan may develop some kind of spiritual language from the former religion. Some maybe would retreat into long term denial of the evidence. Some might fashion other ways to incorporate The Event into their belief system.
Eventually, I'm guessing, one or more of these forms would get a hold in wider society and would start to take the place that the former religion had, possibly in the same spaces and buildings.
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arse
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
If all churches closed something else would pop up to satisfy the need for ritual.
What if the opposite of the OP Event occurred: God proved his existence but said He didn't see the point of religions. Would we mind not going on about him, he didn't want to be worshipped, could we please sell off the churches, give the proceeds to the poor and just get on with our lives ... And he'd like to sleep on Sunday mornings.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Given humanity's track record on doing what God tells us to do?
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by que sais-je:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
If all churches closed something else would pop up to satisfy the need for ritual.
What if the opposite of the OP Event occurred: God proved his existence but said He didn't see the point of religions. Would we mind not going on about him, he didn't want to be worshipped, could we please sell off the churches, give the proceeds to the poor and just get on with our lives ... And he'd like to sleep on Sunday mornings.
I understand that the animist religions believe God to be a creator but not a lawgiver, and somewhat remote and uninterested in human affairs.
You could say that a secularised version of Christianity as a system of moral behaviour also treats God as fairly remote. Many western Christians see themselves as decent people who don't necessarily need to 'worship' God.
However, the problem for Christianity is that it doesn't take itself for granted, or embed itself in the workings of nature; it exists in the consciousness of thinking, philosophising human beings (at least in its Westernised form). Popular Catholicism used to have its saints and angels, even devils, in active attendance, but these days if you cut the one and only God out of Christianity then you don't have much left other than a moral code. You certainly don't seem to have much in the way of spirituality.
[ 10. February 2016, 00:12: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
If it turned out there were no God, I would really miss Him. And the beautiful trappings of the Orthodox way of life. It would take some kind of weird mind-fuck to try to parlay that into some kind of post-theistic something. But if it included enough of the trappings, I would probably go, just for comfort, at least at first.
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I cannot imagine what could happen that would prove the non-existence of God.
Discovery of the Babel Fish?
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
I'd become a Buddhist or something else non-theistic. For me to live without God is quite conceivable ...but to live without RELIGION...
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
If an event such as proposed in the OP happened, then I think believers would worry and feel embarrassed for a bit, then that would fade, since they'd know they were definitely not alone, and a feeling of solidarity would be re-established as the background ethos. Atheists might well feell a tad smug, but that too would not last. Communities would quickly get together and decide which buildings to maintain, and which to sell. They would continue the activities because we humans like order and routine, but without the idea of God. Since choirs would know that the words they had always sung had no God etc behind them, they would carry on enjoying singing them because of the value and joy of the music. Adaptability has been a major factor in our species' survival!
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
The Church, like Islam, Judaism and all with a God ARE without them. Their God does not exist. They are all religions without God. God as He is.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
The Church, like Islam, Judaism and all with a God ARE without them. Their God does not exist. They are all religions without God. God as He is.
But - in the OPs example - there would definitely be no God as He is. So no need for searching for the truth, the truth would be right there in front of us, obvious to all.
Islam, Judaism, Christianity - all in their own muddles ways are searching for God. So would be completely redundant in the OPs scenario.
Would civilisation collapse or improve?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
It would usher in the apocalypse. Entire cultures would collapse overnight. History would be voided and empty. In some cases morality would collapse. There would be an enormous economic crash with a property crisis that would eclipse any such thing before. While many charities and social endeavours would continue, many would stagger for a period; some would flounder completely. Philosophical and wisdom traditions throughout the world would instantly die.
Nobody, not even atheists, would be smug about any of it.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
That is a totally and completely different thing. Not even in the same ballpark as the OP.
I will rephrase in what I think the OP is on about.
What purpose does the Church serve other than preventing God getting a good sleep in on the weekends?
This was exactly what I was getting at the heart of the question.
I always enjoy thought experiments (and despair at the lack of creativity of those who go "this can't happen, so I am not going to think about it!) as it can make you look at something from another direction.
Quite surprised that many posters here said that the churches would just close and turn into other uses. Do you really think that the communities built up (I mean with the person to person relationships, not the person-god relationship) would just quickly fall away and crumble?
The idea that actually the community would need each other MORE because of the change seems plausible.
And as mentioned, I could imagine things like evensong, choral music and poetry would provide meditation and peace (as it already does to many non-theists) and would still have a place.
Neil
Posts: 6009 | From: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. | Registered: May 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I cannot imagine what could happen that would prove the non-existence of God.
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Discovery of the Babel Fish?
Well if that's the scenario I'd be extra careful on zebra crossings for a bit.
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
SusanDoris: Atheists might well feell a tad smug, but that too would not last.
C'mon, we'll allow you at least one "Neener!"
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
C.S.Lewis' Puddleglum gives my answer to this better than I ever could:
quote:
Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things - trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones....
That's why I'm going to stand by the play world. I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
To seriously address the OP it reminds me of a Jewish saying;
quote:
The Torah is not in Heaven
and the play The Trial of God where they find God guilty of not existing or being negligent, and then proceed with the usual Sabbath prayers.
Part of my wants to hold to a rigorously intellectually honest position but I suspect I'd be like the Rabbis - I'd regard religion as too important to me and, in a sense, my property and not God's. So I'd carry on.
To give it a more positive rationalization I would regard the beauty, altruism, community and hope of religion as being too important to lose simply because faith was destroyed. And I see something that is true in religion even in the absence of rational reason to believe in God. I could justify being irrational, I think.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Philosophical and wisdom traditions throughout the world would instantly die.
Why?
Is there no philosophy or wisdom without God?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's an interesting fantasy, and one of my thoughts is that very little would change. The non-religious would notice it, and carry on with their lives. Some of the religious would carry on, on an as if basis, i.e. let's live as if God existed. Another group would simply deny it, or compartmentalize their minds.
It's possible that those two groups already exist.
Maybe some would gravitate to non-theistic religion, such as Buddhism or advaita, or some kind of Jungian archetype worship.
The world would keep turning, and cats would still need feeding in the morning.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
C.S.Lewis' Puddleglum gives my answer to this better than I ever could:
As with most of CSL, this has never rung true for me. If I'm Truman Burbank and suddenly I get inarguable evidence that my whole existence is a lie for television, I'm not going to continue pretending as if nothing has changed, I'm going to crumple into a tiny heap.
[ 10. February 2016, 09:30: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I'm going to crumple into a tiny heap.
And then what? One can't stay in a tiny heap.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
And then what? One can't stay in a tiny heap.
As I said above, there are a range of different responses which have been modelled by different groups over time: ie death of the organisation, mutation into a different type of faith etc.
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arse
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Part of me wants this thread to run all the way through Lent, and then on Easter Sunday we'll post "Christ has risen indeed!"
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
C.S.Lewis' Puddleglum gives my answer to this better than I ever could:
As with most of CSL, this has never rung true for me. If I'm Truman Burbank and suddenly I get inarguable evidence that my whole existence is a lie for television, I'm not going to continue pretending as if nothing has changed, I'm going to crumple into a tiny heap.
The way I read it, it's not about pretending, it's more about having an ideal. If there's no heaven, well then, we'll just live and work for the kingdom on earth.
You could criticise me by saying I might as well believe in Camelot. And you might have a point.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
The way I read it, it's not about pretending, it's more about having an ideal. If there's no heaven, well then, we'll just live and work for the kingdom on earth.
I don't think people are naturally Platonic. When one reality breaks, they look for another rather than trying to turn it into an eternal ideal. Of course different people are different and the reality might well be that in the long run a religion develops which reinterprets the lost spirituality to mean an ideal. I just don't think this would happen in the minds of those who immediately experience the loss.
quote:
You could criticise me by saying I might as well believe in Camelot. And you might have a point.
Oh I think there is more value in Christianity - even if completely false - than in the belief in Camelot. But of course YMMV.
[ 10. February 2016, 10:31: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
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