quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
I have been out of work for six months now, over 400 job applications under my belt and not a sniff. I had to put the phone down on an agency the other day who asked me if I could learn to drive if I put some effort into it. The conversation had actually started with the words "I see you are partially sighted, which rather narrows down the field for you...".

---

You might be able to argue a convincing case for helping them to achieve their disability quotient. Believe in yourself!
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Ah well, life gets more complicated and I really need to put some effort into job hunting this weekend.

I'm no longer key working the student who is coming into school in a few weeks. We've been moved into a new team as of 13 January and we are managed by someone new, who is lovely. However, my so-called line manager, the one I rant about in Hell, was angling for that job. He didn't get it and has been a very busy little bee this week trying to lever a management role in the new organisation, which makes a huge change from the ½ day he worked the first week back and the whole day and 3 x ½ days he worked last week.

He sent a delightful e-mail earlier this week stitching us up like kippers - detailing his new role team leading and taking a lead on teaching and learning. He who has never trained as a teacher, taught or attended any of the teaching and learning training at work. I have taught for years and worked as a SENCo, have the training, both in this role and elsewhere. He also insisted that we all pass all paperwork to him for "quality control"*, otherwise known as giving him all the resources so that he can take credit for work he hasn't done.

Sadly for him, I got to the meeting first this afternoon, so he is now key working the student coming into school shortly, and I am not, for good and genuine reasons. I have also asked to be considered for another role within the school base and told the new manager that I have done this because I'm not prepared to continue being managed by this guy.

And he's now seriously pissed off with me because I emailed my paperwork for today after the meeting and very politely pointed out he'd cocked up, again. He missed that I was telling him he'd got it wrong, and told me I shouldn't interfere and he had it all in hand, so I had to point it out again, more bluntly. Job hunting is really, really urgent.

* hilarious concept - he can't spell or write grammatically. I rewrite anything he sends me as I'm not putting my name to something that illiterate - and I don't reckon I'm that wonderful at putting words together.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
LinkedIn have suggested three jobs they think might be of interest - Lecturer in Engineering, Senior Exploration Geologist and Assistant Solicitor in London.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Started a new job yesterdat. Four offices down the hall from my previous job.
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Congratulations, Caissa, and health to enjoy it!
 

---

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :
 
Form completed and emailed.

It's in the hands of God now.

Help.
 

---

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Huge job fair tomorrow - over 150 school districts will be there. Will the mouse find his first teaching job (I'm certifying in June after a whirlwind 1-year study program designed for career-changers)? I certainly won't come home with a letter of intent tomorrow, but it's a very important day. Prayers appreciated, for finding the right district, for passing my cert boards, and for my underarm deodorant to not fail until after the fair.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Lighting you a candle Mousethief. Hoping you get more than one offer so you get at least some choice.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Thinking of you mousethief
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Good luck, mousethief, fingers crossed for you!

In other news... wondering when to poke the agency who were desperately keen to put me forward for a job that would involve a 25% pay cut (just when we have finally plucked up the courage to househunt again...), to find out that the company decided I was far too over qualified. I realise I'm pre-judging here, but it's happened so, so, many times I've long since stopped bothering to apply for that sort of thing.

Speaking of which, may the Radiocarbon lab here boil in their own Carbon 14 for advertising a job I'd love... two pay bands below where I am now!

Gibber gibber gibber gibber. I'd moan that we should all be hunter-gatherers, except my appendix would have killed me at 15 and my partner would have been eaten by a predator she never saw... Gods, I so bloody loathe job hunting, I'd have to really hate someone to want to inflict it on them.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
God bless, Mousethief!

A zillion apps sent out and nary a nibble. Except the guy who told me to copyedit when he meant "proofread only", and took the resulting changes to be errors. Gah.

Venturing back into teacherland, and still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up (ha).
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Good luck, Mousthief.
I hope the right job comes your way soon, Sandemaniac.
Lamb Chopped, I avoid that question by choosing not to grow up.
My new job is keeping me hopping and happy. I wish you all the same success soon.
 

---

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :
 
Thanks for restarting and bumping this thread - I'd been looking for the old one.

I've got some hopeful and positive things to report, after having not had the greatest of years last year.

Positive thing 1.
I was on a ship I've sailed on lots as a volunteer, on a voyage sailing from New Zealand across the Southern Ocean, around Cape Horn and to Ushuaia (which was the thing that kept me going last year, looking forward to that), and the MCA mandated that they had a member of crew as a Rating with particular certs that I happen to have for the next trip, down to the Antarctic - so I not only got to go to the Antarctic, but I got paid for it too.

Positive Thing 2.
The company who run that ship and another Sail Training vessel are going to eventually have to employ more Ratings of the same as I sailed as on the Antarctic trip, and they want me to be one of them. They're stlll working out details and things though - and they're procrastinating as much as they can and have said don't turn down definite work in the meantime.

Positive Thing 3.
A Dutch ship offered me a job about the same time as I first heard about the above (while I was at sea, rolling across the Southern Ocean). I played for time a bit and they gave it to someone else.

Positive Thing 4.
The day after I got back into the UK after the Antarctic trip, I had an offer of a deckhand job on a different sailing ship . Unfortunately they wanted me to join on the Monday, and I'd only landed back at Heathrow on the Friday and was shattered after 5 1/2 months on board, and the Antarctic trip was pretty knackering for the last month of that, so I asked if I could join later than that, because I wouldn't've been in a fit state to join a new ship then. They needed someone then though, so they found someone else.

Positive Thing 5.
I had an offer while I was away of this season on a sailing vessel that does cargo and sail-training that is unusual and interesting because she doesn't have an engine at all. Unfortunately by the time I got that email it was too late, and I emailed them back when I came back to the UK explaining I'd been at sea, and saying I assumed they'd've filled their spaces by now. They offered me Bosun for their winter season, but their crew are all volunteers. I can't afford to do that. I told them this, and he said they are trying to move to paying their crew, and would keep my CV on file.

Very Positive and Hopeful thing 6.
The second ship, the Dutch one , that contacted me while I was away emailed me again - apparently a Bosun/Deck Rating position has arisen for the season (April-end of October), and they asked if I'd like it. They're flying me out there this weekend to meet them, see and sail on a short voyage on the ship. It looks like I may possibly actually get a job, if all goes well...
(and the worst that happens is that I have a free weekend's sailing on a ship I've never been on, which is still good)

Positive Thing 7.
I'd sent off a rather half-assed covering email and CV to a couple of USA ships on Sunday, assuming they'd never even read it because I made clear I'm not a US national, although I'd be willing to jump through the hoops to get the paperwork it's apparently really hard to do. One of them emailed me back saying I sounded like exactly the sort of person they'd like on their crew, and asking if we could set up a phone interview. I said I'd got this thing over the weekend and am pretty much committed to them if it comes off, but that I'd still love to speak to her, as we could talk about next season or even winter maintenance. The money for this last one wasn't very good though - $500 a month doesn't cover a great deal, no matter how pretty the boat is, but contacts are good, and I'm interested in that ship's work & approach...

So after much hopelessness before I flew out to New Zealand in November, there appear to be at least encouraging things occurring...

Fingers crossed that all goes well this weekend, and that I end up with a Bosun job there this season.
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Good luck Mousethief!

Over the next month I'm trying to get into job hunting mode. I quit my last job last May and have been basically recovering. I hope that I can find another job which is not too horrible. I'm a bit dubious since I hear complaints about age discrimination from others in Software who are twenty years younger than me.

Once more into the breach!
 

---

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :
 

I have a job!
Soon to start as Bosun on a Dutch sailing ship for the season.

 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Congratulations, Luvanddaisies - that sounds great!
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Okay, freaking out here (when am I not?). Just got offered a part time job after undergoing an after-service job interview I didn't realize WAS a job interview (clueless much? um yeah). It's a guy from our Asian community who has a finger in about fifty entrepreneurial pots (slight exaggeration, not much) who is working with maybe a dozen others like him, none of whom can find their organizational butts with both hands. So he's wanting someone to come in and organize the hell out of them, and him. And help him write a book too, maybe. He figures my education and missionary background will make me a good fit for the position, which requires herding cats. He's probably right.

Trouble is, I'm scared. I just spent seven years under a boss who did his best to make me feel about two inches tall, God knows why. I've got major confidence issues, and would have them even if I had a job flipping burgers at the local McDonalds. I went to lunch with the guy and can already feel the cover-your-butt, appease-the-scary-boss attitude trying to crawl over my face.

I don't want to be that person. I've spent years downplaying my education and intelligence because I've worked for too damn many people who can't cope with that in a woman, and we've always had a shitty job market in this town, which I'm geographically bound to. But now that I have what looks like a chance to be treated as an adult, I'm scared I won't be able to break that habit now and act like the competent, respect-worthy human being I am.

Have any of you people spent a long time working for assholes? And if so, how do you get over the bad self-defensive habits you picked up when you were there?

I'm scared.
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I was lucky that, by the time I found myself in the position of being systematically devalued and marginalised, I had a fairly well-established sense of my talents and abilities. Which were not, I admit, those suited to the role I was being pushed into. They were much better. (Fuck being able to run a Windows server - I could write poetry a Nobel Laureate applauded).

Get back to what you know you can do/have done.
 

---

Posted by Meg the Red (# 11838) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Have any of you people spent a long time working for assholes? And if so, how do you get over the bad self-defensive habits you picked up when you were there?

I'm scared.

---

After two positions totalling nearly 15 years in which I worked for abusive shits, I moved on to another job in which I was treated reasonably well. Even though I was well qualified, and knew intellectually that it was okay to make mistakes, I still ended up crying in the bathroom when I screwed up or didn't know something I felt I should have.

I found it really helpful to recognize the aftereffects of the abuse, and be very, very gentle with myself for still being wary or distrustful of respect or kindness. I had to challenge myself not to continue the abuse by beating myself up; a hard thing to do when one's confidence has been systematically undermined.

Recognize that you've learned a lot, grown in wisdom and empathy, and do. not. have. to. take. any. shit. When I realized that the expectations in my new position were unrealistic, I spoke up. When things didn't change, I left (I found out later I was eventually replaced by a department ).

I love my current job, but there's a good chance it will disappear due to budget cuts, so I've started sending out resumes. I have an interview on Friday, and I'm coaching myself to treat the process as a mutual interview; my brains and work ethic and experience are worth something, and I expect that to be recognized and appreciated.

[ 07. April 2014, 01:01: Message edited by: Meg the Red ]
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
It sounds to me like what they need is basically a cat herder/air traffic controller, which is what I've been doing in missions for years. You just don't get any more disorganized than that, especially with Vietnamese Standard Time thrown into the mix. So hopefully this will be playing to my strengths. I'll find out more when I go down there on Tuesday and see the place and meet people.

Replaced by a department!

I hear dark rumors that my entire old unit is now nonexistent (the last person having sensibly retired as soon as I was gone) and the Pointy-Haired One is now foisting off his remaining unit as a substitute on the rest of the company--people who are not trained in that particular line and who cost more, thus fucking up the budgets of every other production department down there. PHO is also advertising for a fulltime person to add to that unit, with the duties of the entire destroyed unit added as a minor bullet point in the job description. Good luck on that, then.

Ah, Schadenfreude...

[ 07. April 2014, 01:59: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
... He figures my education and missionary background will make me a good fit for the position, which requires herding cats ...

---

I think maybe his point is that you can herd cats better than he can.

So, get in there, and prove him right - that you're the best cat-herd in the business.

Sorry - cross-post.

[ 07. April 2014, 02:05: Message edited by: piglet ]
 

---

Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 
LC - I'm retired now, but while I was still at work I needed to keep reminding myself that I wasn't a complete waste of space. I had a big notebook, and on the page at the back I kept a list of anything nice anyone had ever said about me. For instance, someone once used the phrase 'tact and tenacity' in my review, and I had that written down in BIG LETTERS!

Also useful mantras (mantrae?) such as 'Anybody can make a mistake, the important thing is to learn from it and CARRY ON'.

It sounds very small and useless, but believe me it was a great help when I thought things were a bit iffy. YMMV of course, and I'm sure you are a much better catherd than you think you are, but anything specific that you can hold on to is worth having to hand.

Go for it, LC, we're all rooting for you

Mrs. S, evangelist of encouragement
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
Dusts CV off, meets with volunteer coaching person (with a solid track record). Here we go again.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
thank you folks. I'm still SKEERED... Also just found a job opening for an English as a second language teacher with new immigrant kids. That would be lovely in terms of easing my way back into teaching (our immigrants are not known for bringing guns to school, etc.) and I've been working with immigrant families for 25 years, so... on the flipside, the bloody application is TWENTY SCREENS LONG and wants information on everything down to the kind of underwear I have on. Oh for the good old days when you dropped a resume by and that was it!
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
... the bloody application ... wants information on everything down to the kind of underwear I have on ...

---

Are you sure it's English as a Second Language they want you to teach?

Go for it anyway - it might be more rewarding than herding those cats.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Well, i HAVE been studying bellydance....
 

---

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I'm kind of trapped in a job that was supposed to be a temporary expedient--the idea was it would allow me to escape from Idaho back to Oregon, where I could find something more suitable. I only meant to stay in it for a year or two... but then the recession, and two years turned into six. And when there began to be jobs for psychologists again, and I started to apply for them, I discovered (much to my surprise) that I'm old. An interviewer said, "I'm probably not legally allowed to ask this question..." then asked it anyway--it had to do with the fact that I could (in some alternate reality where I had managed things better) retire in five years. Until that moment, it had not occurred to me that this could be an issue (I've since scrubbed my resume of anything that could give away my age). I tried to make it clear that I was prepared to be there for the long haul (the interviewer was no spring chicken himself), but got a polite brush-off. The same organization subsequently hired two psychologists from my workplace for essentially the same job I had interviewed for, both of whom are in their 20s and with less than two years post-doctoral experience.

Any thoughts on how to deal with age discrimination?
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Had a brief phone interview today with someone from the federal government (!) and discovered, much to my shame, that I have gotten so used to the idea that I'll never land a job that I had not even thought to save the job description. I think and hope I did well in the conversation (we'll see if I get to stage two) but . Clearly depression is affecting me worse than I thought. After panicky googling I managed to find it, so I can do proper prep if I do get to stage two.

Is anyone else having trouble just getting out of bed? This isn't procrastination, it's too bad for that name.
 

---

Posted by Meg the Red (# 11838) on :
 
Having graduated both high school and university just in time for serious recessions, I've been through longish periods of unemployment and underemployment. People often spout the phrase that when you're unemployed, job-hunting is your full-time job. I can't imagine a less rewarding "job": frustration, isolation, rejection, no benefits and NO TIME OFF; night and day, I could think of very little except combing job ads and eking out my dwindling funds. When Meggy runs the world, job-seekers will get periodic paid vacations during which time they will be permitted to wallop the next person who asks what they do for a living.

Under the circumstances, exhaustion sounds perfectly normal to me.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
6 weeks ago I was interviewed for My Dream Job, but didn't get it. The interviewer gave me great feedback and also named the successful candidate. I looked her up on LinkedIn and could see why she got the job. So I was disappointed, but no hard feelings.

Basically, it's a project, funded by public money. I think I was a better fit for the job itself, but the other candidate was a better fit for the conditions that came with the funding. The interviewer said that it was a hard decision whether to choose me with my "depth of knowledge" or the other candidate who had "breadth of experience."

Since then I have been asked to do various bits and pieces that were part of the job description, but I'm doing them as a volunteer. I've enjoyed doing these things, but my husband feels that I'm being taken for a complete mug. He says that I should make the point that they had the opportunity to employ me, and that they've missed their chance.

But I am enjoying it, and I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Thoughts?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
In the circumstances, I think you have to suck it up and use the opportunity to get the experience - especially as that's what the person who got the job seems to have had. It's all very well to "leave a message" but if you do as you say you may well end up cutting your nose off to spite your face. I fear I've done it often enough myself...

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
BTW, is anyone else struggling to get into LinkedIn today?

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I've just tried and got in, but there are a couple of very random names in the "people you might know" bit.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I seem to be able to get in, but if I try to read the message I got overnight, or reply to anything recent, Firefox kills it as it says it is being redirected in a way that will never complete. Very odd!

Someone from Oxford (the next building, if it's who I think it is) has looked at my profile this morning, so maybe it's just me?

AG
 

---

Posted by Alban (# 9047) on :
 
Well, I've had 2 interviews in the last 6 months, since I decided my second 'job' had become a joke, since they changed the supervising team, and the new people didn't think it was a priority to find me work.
I fully get the depression thing. Some days I just don't feel like doing anything, getting dressed included.
My most recent interview, it was that 'more perfectly experienced candidate applied' scenario. He sounded genuinely disappointed he couldn't give me the job, and is keeping me on file. However, the job, although a perfect fit, was graveyard shift and I'm starting to feel its undesirability was the only reason I got as far as I did. So here I am, mid 30's, feeling completely useless and unwanted.
The second 'job' has suggested they'll have work for me next month. Only instead of 9 to 5, I'll need to work 11 to 7 (so goodbye to evening commitments). And who knows how long that'll last. I'm fed up with trying to survive on 15 hours a week. I'm sick and tired of needing my father's help and free board (in exchange for getting some much needed painting done around the place), I'm tired of having no discretionary income.
I don't like the horrible feeling I got in the pit of my stomach when I received my latest rejection email today.
 

---

Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
Alban and NEQ, orry to ehar about your rejections - the 'you would have been the best candidate but..' is really annoying.

It looks like I'll be job-hunting by proxy for my dyslexic son in a few weeks as his latest contract comes to an end soon. Do you recommend Linkedin? My husband signed up to it and it sent invitation emails to every-one in his address book which was a total pain. I was wondering if it would help my son find work - he's looking for work in a lab.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Drop me a PM Gussie and let me know what sort of lab - I doubt I'll find him something but I am all too experienced in looking for science jobs, so might be able to come up with some advice.

Alban - I wish i could do more than

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I'm ambivalent about LinkedIn. My first mistake was to accept contacts from people at church, many of whom have engineering type oil industry jobs. I have just completed a PhD in History, but LinkedIn thinks I might be interested in pipeline technology type jobs.

I have now added lots of people in history / archive areas as contacts, but I guess there just aren't as many jobs in that area, because I'm still getting informed about well-head drilling posts.

My second mistake was to add my Scots Law degree and the fact that I'm a qualified Scots solicitor to my details. So now, amongst the ocean-bed survey jobs, I'm also getting informed about solicitor jobs. In England. Despite having no English legal qualifications whatsoever.

So my experience of LinkedIn so far is that they have clunky algorithms which throw up unsuitable jobs. But perhaps they would throw up suitable jobs if any such job actually existed.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I've just had another look at LinkedIn and they have a suggested contact described as person "similar to me." It's an attractive young woman wearing a sports vest who manages a leisure centre. In no way, shape or form is she similar to me, other than she's female and we both speak English as our first language. So no idea what made LinkedIn think she was "similar to me."

I can only imagine how horrified she'll be if it works the other way, and LinkedIn are suggesting to her - see this fat middle-aged historian? We think she's similar to you!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
If it's any help, someone with an address that was something like dateyoungladies.co.uk looked at my profile a while back, and they were labelled as a second-degree connection - which is what really confused me, how the flip did that happen? Eventually LinkedIn did one of its "See how you are connected to..." screens, and I realised that they were connected via a consultant, and I suspect we'd had our CVs worked on by the same firm.

It's very handy for finding out about other people who are on it, but beyond that I'll reserve judgement until something happens!

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Gussie - I'll have a think, and consult with SWMBO who'll know more about the subject, and get back to you.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
For the son--You CAN set up your account on LinkedIn without allowing it to raid your email/Facebook contacts (hatehateHATE). Just uncheck the relevant boxes during the process.
 

---

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
I feel like LinkedIn is a really useful medium in certain rare circumstances if you know how to work it but perhaps not otherwise. I have gotten small potatoes from it, but my sister (same field) has gotten multiple excellent contracts from people who contacted her over LinkedIn.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Yep, you can refuse to allow LinkedIn to add your contacts on your e-mail. You have to keep on refusing, persistently and boringly, most times you sign in, but I really don't need my address book full of church contacts for that voluntary work as contacts on LinkedIn.

Gussie, I'll catch up with on dyslexia and employment issues when I see you on Monday.

[ 16. April 2014, 13:38: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
 

---

Posted by Alban (# 9047) on :
 
Don't think I'm going to bother with Linkedin, just don't know that I feel like social networking the job hunt.
At the risk of sounding like a nut, anyone had the feeling God wants growth in some area before he lets you get that right job?
Trying to deal with something in my life, and then get a phone interview for a job which sounds wonderful (basically googling stuff for people). Main computer out of action (failed OS upgrade, needing repair) so using old slow desktop. Worried about speed, when they asked me to hunt a phone number, go with the first result I find - checked after the call and it's not the main number for the business. It works, but still not a great answer. Crap.
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
**bump**

Just avoiding the Hostly Chopper™
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Likewise to piglet's post above.

AG
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
Couple of years out of work + various failed attempts to get back = low spirits all round. But matters can't continue so back into the fray i go.

Found a company; they like me, i like them. All good

References? Now we'll find out if voluntary work really counts.

And please God, this time DearMrDr, will you write something sensible?

ThankyouVerymuchindeed
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Gussie, how has your son got on?

AG
 

---

Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
Thanks for asking Sandemaniac. The contract finished last Friday and at the moment I think my son is enjoying having a bit of a 'holiday' having only had one work day off in the last nine months.
He has applied for a few jobs, only the ones he thinks he would be genuinely interested in, rather than applying for anything he thought he might be able to do which was the case last year.
 

---

Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
Oops sorry for the double post. Could some kind host remove the duplicate?
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I've put my application for permanent employment in again after temping for a year for the same place. I really, really would like pay all year - and then I'd work doing the other stuff I'm doing when I'm less busy ...

In other news, my daughter has an interview for a fully funded PhD next Friday.
 

---

Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck CK and Curious Kitten.
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I got the letter yesterday confirming the extension of my contract until 31st October (my boss had told me informally that it would come through, but it's nice to have A Piece Of Paper ). She says she's going to fight hard to keep me on after that, which is great as I love my job.

Continued prayers and good wishes to those of you still looking.
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
After just four long gruelling years, i'm back to paid employment on Monday!
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Congratulations, EA, and all the best for your new job!
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Yay!!!
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
After just four long gruelling years, i'm back to paid employment on Monday!

---

Wow, congratulations .

Huia does the happy dance
 

---

Posted by Japes (# 5358) on :
 
Congratulations, Ethne Alba. Will be thinking of you, and hope it all goes well.


 

---

Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
Congratulations EThne Alba, so glad you got the references etc sorted. Hope the job is all you want it to be.
 

---

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
Congratulations EA.

A ten-month gap in my earlier career just about drove me insane. I can't fathom 4 years!
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
((thank you thank you!))

and yes Pete, it took me to the edge
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
When we moved to Canada I wasn't permitted to work for seven years while the PTB faffed about with our application for permanent residence.

The time-freedom/no responsibility thing was liveable-with, but the lack of money wasn't. Having worked full-time almost continually for the previous 20 years, I treated it as a sort of dress-rehearsal for retirement.

When our residency finally came through I was lucky enough to find a part-time job which pays well, and leaves me enough free time that I can still do other things (in particular I didn't have to give up volunteering at the Cathedral office, which I've been doing since shortly after we moved here).
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
After just four long gruelling years, i'm back to paid employment on Monday!

---

Hope the first week went good.
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
Thank you for asking

It proved to be completely impossible for me to return to a full time (or even a part time) post, so i'm taking the well worn, day to day agency route back to paid employment.

Slowly slowly, but it's still crazy that i'm even paid to have fun! Play! Smile! Tell stories!
All good though

 

---

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
I think... possibly... maybe... I might have just been offered a dream job.

the owner called, said he wants me to come in and help him plan what my position will be. It's management of an historic hotel, the poshest in town. not general management (oh god no!) but facilities and publicity. specifically focused on the historic landmark status and maintaining that, as well as marketing it as a destination rather than just a place to stay. EEP!

He's creating the position for me. Seasonal and I set my own hours, so I can work around the coaching.

I'm not sure this is real yet but I'M SO EXCITED!
 

---

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
So I'm afraid I'm going to jinx it, but I have an interview tomorrow. The job's two time zones away, the pay's going to be awful, it's not exactly in my perfect area of interest (though it is in one I'd best know a thing or three about), and it's about 80 minutes by train south of Ariston's Idea of Paradise…so no, not perfect.

But a lot closer to it than where I am now.
 

---

Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
Sorry things didn't pan out with full time work for the moment Ethne Alba, but enjoy the day to day!
Ariston and Comet, good luck with getting exactly what you want out of the new job opportunities.
My son has an interview next week which is good, but as it's only for six months and would mean him moving in with his grandma and having to buy a car, its not ideal. A couple of other things might result in interviews, so he's feeling realtively up-beat.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I'm filling in a job application form which wants to know all my school results. From 1980-1982. I've filled in a few of these now and I simply can't remember what I got, but I've been erring on the side of caution by filling in the minimum I think I got. I assume my subsequent two undergrad degrees, my Masters and my PhD make school subjects irrelevant anyway.

I've been stating that I got Bs in some subjects I think I got As in, and Cs in some I think were Bs, so that I'm not being inadvertently dishonest in a bad way.

Does it matter?

(I have two CSYS, 7 Highers and 11 O grades; a couple of the Highers were crash Highers, so 13 different school subjects in all.)

I'm starting to wonder if I should be downgrading my school results like this.
 

---

Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :
 
Oh, God....I am trying to work my way off of Social Security, for those of you in the U.S. who understand this system. Social Security has a program, "Ticket To Work" that can aid one in the effort but my biggest problem is that I have so many gaps in my employment history! Not one gap, not two, but several. Whatever company hires me gets a big tax break and doesn't have to provide me with healthcare benefits for five-eight years, so that might be a big ol' bonus but the thought of interviewing and having to explain some of those gaps just terrifies me. Also, I hardly know if I'm qualified to do anything, anymore. My field was Graphic Design and Proofreading, not at the same time, usually. But my software skills have lapsed badly and I'm just feeling old and fossilized (I'm turning 48 next week).
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I've got weird gaps as well, plus odd bits and pieces of work which aren't relevant to anything I might want to do now, but if I don't put them in I have even more gaps.

I've just submitted a crap online application for a job I think I'd be good at, for which I'm well qualified, and which I'd like, but the online form took hours as I filled in all the irrelevent stuff they asked for (list all school qualifications, list all previous employment etc.) I'm 50. I've done a lot of stuff over the years.

Meh.

Good luck, 5th Mary!
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
North East Quine, some jobs do ask for full employment history, particularly jobs that require DBS / CRB checks, but I was told last 10 years of employment history for most jobs and on a standard CV.

For online application forms which require full employment history I fill in the last 10 years and attach a CV with full employment history.
 

---

Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
It is a pain when you are expected to remember everything. I did supply teaching for a while, then had a temporary contract, then back to supply with the same company. Because of the break in being employed by them I had to reapply, so I just sent in the original application, updated with the temp job details. Although the first time there had been no problems, this time they sent it back requested that I account for the gaps in the employment record. I was so tempted to just put "buggered if I can remember" about what I did over 20 years ago.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
There's a new education recommendation or requirement that means anyone working in education has to give full employment history. I would have to go and look it up again, but the details are on a lot of education application forms. It isn't the temp agency or organisation being difficult, it's really a safeguarding recommendation or requirement (I can't remember which) of the Department for Education.

I did it by finding an old CV and using that to fill in gaps, because I'd forgotten jobs from a few years back.
 

---

Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :
 
Oh, I fully understood that. It was just that, as I pointed out, I could put anything down, as there was no way they could check back that far, given that a lot of the companies I worked for no longer exist.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Well, I didn't get shortlisted for the job for which I submitted a crap application (surprise, surprise). I've heard on the grapevine that they had "dozens" of applications.

I had a interview on Monday for another job. The hours were, I thought, 11-4, and it was paid by the hour. However, it turned out that the hours are 11-1 and 2-4, with 1-2 being an unpaid lunch hour. Is this normal? They said I'd hear by mid-week. I haven't heard anything.

I then had another interview for a very part time job on Friday. I've been told that the interviewers have decided to split the job into two, and offer me half. Half of a part-time job is virtually nothing. Is this normal?

Ideally, I'd like a full-time job, but a part-time job would let me write up my PhD thesis for possible publication, so either would do. (I've been strongly encouraged to write up the thesis as a serious but non academic book, but no guarantees that it would actually be accepted for publication.)

I have plenty to do of the unpaid variety - two conference papers to write, website admin, I've been asked to guest blog for another University, academic committee to chair; how do I turn this busyness into paid busyness?

Is doing lots of relevent unpaid things good, or do people just assume you're happy to do stuff for nothing?

I'm feeling completely confused by the whole what-do-I-do-now thing.
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Well it is usual for lunch breaks to be unpaid, in that as a full time employee I am expected to work 9-5 five days a week - but it is described as 37.5 hrs a week rather than forty hours a week as it incorporates an unpaid 30min unpaid lunch break per day.

[ 28. June 2014, 11:23: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I was partly surprised that there was a full hour-long lunch break between two two-hour shifts. A 30 min break would have seemed more reasonable; even just a 20 min coffee break.
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
I'm currently on maternity leave, and will be returning part-time to my (fixed-term contract) job in November. As my post is grant-funded and I have had a salary increment meantime it means that the amount of time left on the contract was reduced slightly, which means that I have work until the end of February next year. I've decided that a full-on academic post isn't actually for me, even though research is - I miss clinical practice, so am hoping to eventually get something that combines the two, although that might mean a couple of days health visiting and a day or so teaching until I can get something that combines the two somehow. Having spent the past several months with baby brain I'm a bit nervous about both returning and having to use my adult brain again, and about how to market myself for job hunting. I'm going to look into joining the local nurse bank, and have also seen an advert for hourly paid lecturers for a vaguely local place - I can't say I'm keen on 0 hours contracts, but it might actually be just what I need to get a bit of experience.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
...
I had a interview on Monday for another job. The hours were, I thought, 11-4, and it was paid by the hour. However, it turned out that the hours are 11-1 and 2-4, with 1-2 being an unpaid lunch hour. Is this normal? ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Jack

What you need is to be employed by a teaching hospital, they are normally attached to Universities but they employ staff on the NHS. As they are providers of health care, the staff tend to be both researchers and practitioners.

Jengie

---

If my speciality was acute nursing then that would make sense (and if I lived somewhere other than Scotland), it's a bit more complicated that here both acute and community staff are employed by the Health Board, so you're not employed by the hospital (or health centre). Also as far as I can tell the research nurse job (which in theory would be ideal for me) is much more developed in the hospital setting, and in many places pretty unheard of in the community. I'm currently sounding out research nurse networks and clinical academic research leads to see what scope there may be - the problem is that most of the opportunities in clinical practice for practitioners to do research is at Masters level, but I've obviously already got that Tshirt. I did have a useful meeting a couple of weeks ago with someone in Glasgow, so am not completely devoid of hope, but I think I'm going to need to get quite creative.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Ho hum. Major family crisis seems to have passed, at least for now, so the other stuff is back on the plate.

I went back to the university careers service and, to my surprise, found that its new head was very forthcoming, shared his experiences (been through the mill, been unemployed, etc, rather than someone young who's just applied for the job when their post-doc finished), and who showed sensible ways of using LinkedIn to find information, and a job site that is actually relatively easy to use, plus advice on aiming a CV at a new type of job. I actually came away feeling quite positive about the whole thing which, frankly, is a first - my prior experiences with the careers service were largely negative, if that good.

Now, however, it's back to facing down the woolly mammoth in the room (bigger and hairier than an elephant, see?). It's all very well having a strategy for applying to jobs, but it's finding something I actually want to apply for, before I'm forced to.



AG

[ 30. July 2014, 11:35: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I would suggest applying for many jobs even if it isn't your ideal job at first blush. The interview process often shows the position to be more interesting than the job posting indicated. As well, interviews are an excellent way to build your network.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
You also get better at job applications and interviews the more practice you get, in some ways, so you can always regard applications as practice runs to improve your skills for a job you really do want

(I was interviewed twice in the last two weeks for the job I've been doing for the last 16 months. Current deal is temporary contract that means I don't get paid for holidays cutting the not brilliant salary down by ⅓ which is really below subsistence. New deal will be full time pay and a raise, which will actually work out as a more than 50% raise! I also put in a proposal for a route to be paid for the summer holidays -writing teaching resources and schemes of work for September. I have been told I will be paid for 2½ weeks, at the new rate, but goodness knows when, which makes these holidays a little more exciting financially than I'd like and is irritating me as I know it's going to take longer than 2½ weeks.)
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. I've applied for hundreds of jobs now at various times, I loathe the process, it makes me physically and quite possibly mentally ill, and the number of people I've made positive connections with at or after interviews is vastly outnumbered by those who've gone in my file under Orcadian place-name, plus a few who if they stepped out in front of my car I'd accelerate. Add to that the fact that the vast majority of posts advertised that I'm qualified to do are within the very body I'm desperate to escape from... I want to get contacts outside the fence, not inside! Hopefully you begin to see my predicament.

AG
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
... those who've gone in my file under Orcadian place-name ...

---

Sadly, when looking for a job, you sometimes do have to put up with a few of those before you find something that's going to suit. Rather like kissing frogs/finding princes.

for everyone who's hunting.

[ 30. July 2014, 13:27: Message edited by: piglet ]
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I must admit I haven't built networks from job interviews either. And I loathe job applications too.

But ... if you're trying to change direction you're going to have to sell yourself in a different way, and that will take practice. I find that I get tuned into what is being asked after a few forms because the language is all coded slightly differently for different fields. And it takes building familiarity with the new stuff to pick up the inferences.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
You should read What Color is Your Parachute? Sandemaniac, if you haven't. It is an excellent guide to the job search process.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I find that I get tuned into what is being asked after a few forms because the language is all coded slightly differently for different fields. And it takes building familiarity with the new stuff to pick up the inferences.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caissa:
Have you done any inventories with a career counsellor to help identify potential areas of employment, Sandemaniac?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Yes, I've heard that too, piglet. I think the biggest reason I've wimped out thus far is fear of having to go right back to the start again.

AG

---

Plus to make a good living as a plumber, electrician etc you have to be on call 24/7, I would think. When someone's only loo is leaking at 4 in the morning, for instance, or everybody's boiler blows up on the coldest day of the year ...

Mrs. S, who has to pay people to do this sort of thing!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...although one of the joys of being a plumber, as opposed to my current employe,r would be that when you are presented with a enormous turd you can get rid of it, rather than promoting it to high office!

AG
(Me? Cynical? Whatever gave you that impression?)
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, there is progress albeit slow on organising some career coaching... We shall see where it leads me!

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Sorry, me again...

I've been trying to use LinkedIn to track down people who've been in a similar role to me in the same place and moved on, but the search is far more general than I want even if I include my search terms in parentheses.

Any bright ideas?

AG

ETA - I can get the number of people down to about 2000, but that's still a hell of a lot!

[ 06. August 2014, 09:20: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Workplace or role? I just tried workplaces for me and got small numbers up to look through so it wasn't a challenge.

Are you involved in any group discussions? I'm finding that more useful than contacts from LinkedIn as a way of engaging with a wider range of people (very useful discussion on FS ICT L2, which would bore most people silly) but I'm finding that is making me more contacts.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I've been trying to combine both - not being able to eliminate post-docs hasn't helped! Searching for the role alone finds over a million, and as my employer has 11,000 staff even searching for that could be interesting. Nevertheless, I'll have a go.

The most useful group I'm a member of is Alternative PhD Careers - but it has a lot of members in a similar boat to me (except with a PhD) and is very international, so not the greatest for finding useful contacts.

If I was in a role with a purpose, there might be a useful group or two to find, but the whole lab is just doing meaningless crap and, to be brutally honest, I've long since ceased to care. I've never had a speciality anyway, I've just gone where the work was, so I don't really fit well into groups for X, Y or Z specialists.

AG
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Well, I was more thinking the groups discussing the things you're saying you're interested in your profile - there were some when I looked, but I didn't do more than see they were there.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
CK,

What do you read it as saying I'm interested in? I realise that's a funny question, I can't see a section that states interests, at least not clearly and obviously. Maybe it's depression setting in, but I just feel that my profile becomes a bigger lie with every passing day...

Adrian
 

---

Posted by irish_lord99 (# 16250) on :
 
I'll add my job searching woes to the pile:

My wife and I were missionaries to Turkey for almost six years, and we left there to return to the States almost three years ago.

I arrived back in the US burnt out (extremely), disillusioned with ministry (now converting to Orthodoxy from Evangelical), with a worthless six-year gap in my resume, and a pretty snotty economy. It's been ten years since I graduated from a State University with a bachelors in business management, and I have basically no experience in any specific field in which my degree would have value.

Our supporters were apparently not too interested in funding our transition back, so soon after we arrived in the US I took a job as a carpenter because nothing else was available on short notice. I've been doing this now for almost three years, but am desperately searching for a 'real job' that won't destroy my body and will let us move beyond 'paycheck-to-paycheck.'

Of course, with lack of experience, and 'missionary' plastered on my resume; I haven't received any call-backs or emails for interviews. I can't seem to find an entry level job anywhere, and I can't figure out if 'religious nutter' looks better or worse than 'did nothing for six years.'

Why couldn't I have gone to some country with a more useful language? Or just freakin' stayed here?
 

---

Posted by Alban (# 9047) on :
 
Job searching here too. Redundancy confirmed today.
Anyone have tips for telephone interviews?
I'm tempted to try an opening statement something like "I have applied for a customer service position, this interview tests my telephone sales ability, selling myself. I am better at helping than I am selling." So says Alban, feeling paranoid about a recent phone call - fearing the interviewer's tone of voice suggested I'll be getting a rejection when applications close in a fortnight or so.
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
A rejection email and a couple of stony silences from three most recent applications.

A few leads emerged today. Need to find out about one of the stony silences before putting my name forward for another area at same potential employer.

Mind you, they could always fight over me.

mr curly
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, I'm getting my first session of career coaching next Friday... and a contact has suggested a local company about to do a big launch, and potentially need new people... so I just need to work out what to put in a speculative application...

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Oh, and incidentally, may I also call to Heck people who you invite to contact on LinkedIn, making it clear in the invitation that you'd like to discuss something with them, who then ignore any further communication.

May you get farmers from a dodgy office chair.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
What are farmers? I'm dying of curiosity here.

In other news (ha ha)--having been laid off from my temp to hire job (company took a downturn), I'm dithering again. Currently have two apps in to online teaching jobs, am taking a course to get my teaching credential renewed, and studying computers on the side. I wish God didn't make me go butt-first into an unknown future all the time.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Farmer Giles - cockney rhyming slang for piles!

I think we can all sympathise with your last remark...

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I certainly would not try that opening statement, Alban. Never volunteer what you are not good at to a prospective employer. They are attempting in the interview to determine whether or not you are a good fit. Advice for phone interviews? Keep water close by to hydrate, make notes of points you want to bring up in your answers, jot brief notes before you speak, and treat it as much like an f2f interview, as possible.
 

---

Posted by Alban (# 9047) on :
 
The statement was from my frustration. 'Twould be folly no doubt. Thanks for the advice, I guess I tend to accept the telephone interview too quickly - unlike the f2f, when they ring you want to get it done soon, 'tis a surprise. Perhaps my first tip to self should be schedule for a truly convenient time.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
All I can really offer for a telephone interview is find somewhere quiet where you are comfortable, and try to stay relaxed, but not too relaxed - in my very limited experience they tend to be less formal, but that can lull you into saying things you might not otherwise.

I worked for some time in a building with zero mobile reception, and no phone line of my own, so had at least one phone interview in the neighboring park loudly interrupted by a passing tractor! Amazingly, I go through to a face-to-face one.

AG
 

---

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Alban, you may also find it helps to treat it as seriously as you would a face-to-face interview - maybe even to the point of dressing in your interview suit. Prepare suitable answers for likely questions. Research the company thoroughly. And (as others have said) do make sure you schedule a time that's convenient for you and that you are in a quiet place where you can concentrate. I haven't been interviewed over the telephone, but I have done quite a lot of telephone meetings and they are far harder than face-to-face meetings.

Smile when you answer the phone. You don't need to keep a smile pasted to your face through the whole interview, but you want to make a good first impression. It sounds odd, but people can hear the difference in your tone of voice if you're smiling (even if they're not consciously aware of it) and it will make a difference to how you come across.

HTH and good luck.
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by irish_lord99:
My wife and I were missionaries to Turkey for almost six years, and we left there to return to the States almost three years ago.
...

Why couldn't I have gone to some country with a more useful language? Or just freakin' stayed here?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by irish_lord99:
My wife and I were missionaries to Turkey for almost six years, and we left there to return to the States almost three years ago.
...

Why couldn't I have gone to some country with a more useful language? Or just freakin' stayed here?

---

Never write off something like that - look on it as a niche skill. Depending on how well you can speak/write it there could be openings for you as an interpreter, translator, editor, proofreader, teacher of the language at adult education classes, teacher of literacy to ethnic minorities, etc...

It isn't an easy language, but having that on your CV would show anyone who knows that you have the ability to communicate in a complex language, and that can count for something.

---

I have looked into using my Turkish professionally, but the only job I could find seemed outside of my abilities (simultaneous translation in a technical environment ). Maybe I should re-visit the subject though, it's been a while since I looked.
 

---

Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
My son is still looking for work three months after his last temp. contract. What's worrying is that he's only had two interveiws in that time. When his contract finished he thought they'd take him on again in a few weeks, but after several attempts he's now come to the conclusion that firm doesn't want him back.
I've suggested doing an MSc , my husband's suggestion is finding a job outside science.
The whole thin is compounded by the problems my husband's having at work. He's likey to be without a job soon too. I'm not exactly happy to be the only bread-winner at a time I want to retire. Agghs all round really.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Oh hell, Gussie, what a ghastly situation! I wish I could offer some help.

AG
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
OK. What is a "skill set" and what would you expect to see on a CV these days? I gather the time when you just listed your academic qualifications, employment history, key responsibilities and then a list of software packages you could use have gone, now you're expected to compile Profiles, Key Skills, Achievements etc.

What do most people (in the UK) do?
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
This is advice from the adviser at the job centre a couple of years back - proper outside adviser, not the usual bod trying to get you to sign up for work:

Personal profile is trying to sell yourself in a couple of sentences - so saying the role you're hoping to fill, and how you fit that role: experience, organised, work on own initiative - now seeking new challenges in ... (it can change job application to job application - I have two or three versions of that bit depending on whether I'm applying for admin or education)

Key skills short (3/4) bullet-pointed list of key skills that are going to get you short listed for that job - so what the job requires, generally or specifically and what you have to match it.

When you get to the experience and other bits, again tweak that to match the job you're applying for - as in emphasise the stuff you did in that job that matches what they are looking for.

Is that what you wanted to know?
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Yes, that's useful, thanks.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Yes, I'm currently trying to handle something similar - trying to learn the language of jobs outside academia *spit dang!* It's harder work than you think and I'm not sure that I can offer much advice yet, I'm still at the stage of staring at the keyboard until my forehead bleeds.
This is to do with at long bloody last the careers service here have someone who is doing what I've been begging them to do for about a decade which is actually listen to me and try to help instead of blathering.

AG
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Hello thread. I was last around here about 18 months ago. I am back sooner than I might have hoped. On sick leave at present and not sure I can continue in my current role. Got two job applications to write by the end of this week (one for Thursday, one for Friday). Not doing very well at just writing the bloomin' applications. Argh. That is all.
 

---

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
Sandemaniac -

I'm not sure how close my experience is to yours - I left an HE lectureship which 17 years in, had started to send me mad. I didn't work for 6 months (wife works, I do my best with the kids) and now have PT hours back at same uni, but in different lab, as a lab tech.

I have some practical skills which sort-of fit with your list - electrical, welding, machine tools etc - which came about because I like that kind of thing. I now sell these skills in the lab, but I guess my USP is that I can give an impromptu maths lecture if the situation demands it, or do a bit of consultancy if the right enquiry comes along and no-one else wants to do it - which happens from time to time.

I guess I'm saying that if you can afford the financial hit, you may be able to 'buy' yourself out of stress by taking a more lowly role, but make yourself look like great value by making some of your groovier skills available to the new employer nonetheless.

This depends on a pretty upright new employer who doesn't just want to screw you. But for the right pairing there's an elusive win-win in there somewhere.

(If I really need money again, it'll have to be electrical trade. But I used to love teaching and I've volunteered with ex-offenders for last 25 years - so I'd like to hear more about prison teaching).
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Mark, my experience is rather the opposite of yours - it's years of being a technician (and variants on that title) that have driven me screwy. It just feels like I've wasted twenty years on shit that has never benefited anyone (you can try to sell me basic research as hard as you like, I've been there, done that, got the bad attitude to prove it).

I took a bloody great financial hit three years ago, and the savings and my salary have yet to recover, and I'm deeply cynical about trying to find a lower role in the same place as my previous efforts to do so have been met with utter indifference by would-be employers.

The University are currently advertising two jobs in the Radiocarbon Dating lab, which is pretty much the one place that could make me want to stay, but one is once again way down the pay scale on glass washing wages, whilst the other want the PhD I don't have. I'm going to go for that one, because I want to be able to buy a house while we still can, but in reality I doubt I stand a cat's chance in hell of landing it. Gotta try, though.

Typically, I was at a networking event last week, and ended up helping someone else more than anyone helped me. Karma had better bloody exist!

AG
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Prayers for job hunters here and everywhere!!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Just keeping it on the front page... nothing new to report here, I'm afraid.

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
LinkedIn have just sent me a list of jobs I might be interested in, including "technical support manager - crane lifting applications" in Aberdeen, "riser engineer lead" based in Brazil, a "delivery manager" post in Kazahkstan, and a "structural integrity specialist" job in Houston.

I don't even know what most of these jobs are, let alone know why my PhD in history might make me a suitable candidate for any of them.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and for some reason I'm getting updated posts from LinkedIn from a guy who breeds birds of prey in the Middle East!

I think it's been taking random pills...

I've also had an email from an agency (whose main effort thus far has been trying to persuade me to take jobs I don't want at a substantial salary cut) telling me about their wonderful new automated matching system. Looking at it, presumably I also have to match their misspelling to come up in the screen. I haven't got a job through an agency this century, why have I bothered trying?

AG
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
At the moment, I am avoiding job-hunting but, sadly, the finances will not allow me to keep that up. Part of the problem is that my old job ended shortly after I started the process of returning to work after a sickness absence of 4 months, so I am not sure if I am capable of working full-time or not.

I know I should be trying to find voluntary work, just to get back into the routine of going to work, but sitting on the sofa is so much easier!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Following on from NEQ's post, I have today been invited to connect with Seamus O'Murphy*, who recruits for gas and oil firms in Ireland. Ohkaaay...

AG

*not quite that Irish a name, but getting close.
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
I've bene in my current job for over 5 years and it's now going nowhere. Management circumstances have lost us all sense of direction other than the day to day and we're all de-motivated (I've asked my manager to help us re-plan our strategy now that we have half the staff we used to, but he has yet to do so). So it's time to look elsewhere. I work in a small sector where the majority of the jobs that come up are either more junior, contract or part-time, none of which I'm in a financial position to take. Still, some better jobs have come up this year, I had a couple of interviews at the beginning of the year but failed to get interviews at everything since. One job has just come up which I think will be perfect for me, it's a place I'd like to work, the location/grade/salary are exactly what I want but it's going to be really competitive and I'm not very confident. Any tips on how to write that I really can do what they want and more - and how do I write the bit where they ask why I want the job?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
What field are you in, Scots lass? Probably not the same as mine, but that might help us help you...

AG
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
Yes, I can see that would help... I'm an archivist.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Are you looking to place this in a cover letter, Scots' Lass or are you answering questions in an application?

When I worked as an employment counsellor, I usually advised students to go to the advertisement and underline the key components of the job. Then I suggested they demonstrate their acquisition of these attributes in the cover letter. They should tell the employer what skills they have and where they acquired/developed them. As to the why you want the job question, I usually suggested that an applicant discuss the opportunity it would provide them to use their skills. The number one question an employer has is " What can this person do for me?" Employers know that the best indicator of future performance is past performance therefore applicants should emphasize their experience. I hope this is helpful.
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
It's an application form. They want a statement on how I meet all aspects of the person spec, which is fairly straightforward. The harder bit is setting out my reasons for applying for the post, which is another box on the form! Thanks for the idea about setting out how it will help me develop my skills - that's definitely something worth thinking about. The phrase "ready for a new challenge" also comes to mind...
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Besides how it will help you develop your skills, emphasize how the skills you currently have will benefit the employer.
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
Thank you all for providing this place to pop into when i was so very low and apparently failing to find work.....for four years ....pfff ...ridiculous... grrrrr....

It now seems so long ago and yet in all truthfulness it was only a few months ago that i started work. It's going really well. I love it. 99% of the time work is a joy...and the money is crucial. Without it i shudder to think what would have happened,

So here i am, popping back to say Hi ...cheering you guys on .....and hoping to read of some successful applications.
 

---

Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
Caissa - Thanks for those useful tips about covering letters etc. My son has finally got a job four months after the last one finished. I'd assumed that he'd find getting a new one easy, but he only had three interviews in that time. Looking at your tipsI think he needs to re-vamp the covering letter rather a lot.

Not only am I'm pleased for him it's given me my evenings back. He's dyslexic so I've been acting as assistant researcher and amanuensis.

Good luck for everyone out there searching
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well that at least is good news, Gussie.

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
You are welcome, Gussie. Always happy to help.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
If offered a job, what's the usual etiquette regarding how long you can take deciding whether or not to accept it?

(Am on sick leave with anxiety / depression / being mental. Am looking at related jobs which might be less likely to trigger my mentalness or might trigger it less severely. Am having difficulty motivating self to apply for jobs. Did put a couple of applications in three weeks ago and have an interview for one of those vacancies next week. Obviously, no certainty * 'd be offered it, but if * were offered it * think * would find the decision a bit tricky - * .e. * 'm not sure it's the ideal position for me, but returning to my current job would also not be at all ideal.)
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
It is usually fair to ask for 48-72 hours to consider the offer. However, the larger the position and the more then company wants you, could dictate a longer period of time.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Thanks Caissa - although I'm kind of doubting I'll need the info. Dunno whether to post here or on one of the depression threads. The interview is tomorrow and I've done no prep. The deadline for applications for another job was a couple of days ago. I'd previously thought that if an opportunity in that team came up I'd snap it up. I now feel distinctly less enthused, but I can''t tell whether that's because the objective down sides of the job have become more apparent to me or because my current depressive episode is clouding my judgement. I put in a rushed application 30 minutes before the deadline (online applications). Don't know what the fuck I'm doing with my life. My GP told me last week that we will get me to feeling better again. I do believe her. Just a bit ugh trying to change jobs while I'm like this. (Although, now I think about it, this is probably preferable to last time I was trying to change jobs when I was tearing-hair-out stressed-and-wound-up with the job I had, rather than current apathetic do-I-give-a-shit-about-any-job? state.)
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
(((Zoey)))
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
As of about twenty minutes ago, I am now jobhunting again. Popped in an application for something I don't stand a cats chance in hell of getting, but it's something I'd dearly love to do so I have to try.

FWIW I can sympathise, Zoey, though jobhunting tends to do it to me, rather than it affecting the jobhunting first. Whichever way it is it sucks, and good luck handling it.

Wish me luck (and sanity).

AG
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Praying!
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Had the interview. Was blatantly massively underprepared, but I don't think I made an utter fool of myself. Don't think I'll get the job, but in some ways it's a minor confidence boost to think I can blag through an interview semi-coherently whilst feeling shit and having not prepared at all.

(For anyone who's not aware - I'm a social worker. There's a national shortage of us. Finding a job which doesn't drive me batshit crazy might be a problem, but finding job vacancies for which I'm qualified isn't so much of a problem - hence why I can be rather blase about not getting one particular job.)

Onwards and upwards (no doubt with some wobbles on the way) ...
 

---

Posted by Celtic Knotweed (# 13008) on :
 
Got an interview next week! The job is nothing like what I'm doing now (3 cheers), but it looks interesting and is quite a bit more related to the fields I have qualifications in.

One of the questions that will probably come up at interview which I don't know how to answer is "Why do you want to leave xxx organisation?". Some of my reasons are probably obvious ones (pay, lack of use of aforesaid qualifications), but I'm not completely certain myself of some of the others! I do know why I want to move to these guys at least (and told them in the application).

Zoey - even if you were massively underprepared, they may still have liked what they saw enough to consider offering. Assuming you still want the post after speaking to them that is! (I once declined a job offer because I didn't think I could work with my potential boss, and had been offered another post the same day. No regrets on that one, having spoken some years later with the person who did get the post.)
 

---

Posted by chive (# 208) on :
 
Some good news - my brother in law who was made redundant two years ago and has struggled to find work since despite literally thousands of applications and dozens of interviews, has got a permanent job. This comes with perfect timing as my sister is expecting her first child.

It's not the perfect job. It's not what he wants to do but it's a civil service job with all the security that comes with that.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Sandemaniac, I assume it was you, not the other CK. answers you could give are being there a while and wanting fresh challenges, or being unable to see ways to move forward and wanting to progress your career so you want to take a sideways step and hope to get back into a field where there are prospects.

This whole thing could be better phrased but there is only so much redrafting I am doing on a phone and about to go underground.
 

---

Posted by Celtic Knotweed (# 13008) on :
 
CK, nope it was really me, not Sandemaniac using my machine by mistake! Thanks for that - gives me somewhere to work from when thinking about possible points.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
If you are asked why you want to leave x company, it is usually best to say you wanted to move on to a new challenge to utilize your skills.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Yes, it's definitely Celtic Knotweed with the interview. I should know...

AG

(waiting for inevitable disappointment)
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Why do employers post jobs with midnight closing for applications? I would be faffing round for the couple of hours before the deadline if it were midday or 5pm, but it wouldn't be quite so unhealthy. ...
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Bleah. didn't make the second round of interviews. Not enough experience in industry.
 

---

Posted by Celtic Knotweed (# 13008) on :
 
Interview was earlier in the week, went OK (I hope). Thanks for the tips - came in handy. At any rate, I did the best I could and didn't come out thinking *I don't want to work here*, which did happen to me a couple of years ago!

They did say not to expect a yes/no till the end of next week, as they were interviewing over all of this week and the start of next. I hate the waiting...

Lamb Chopped - better luck with the next one. I hate the experience trap.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Same here, LC - all I seem to have experience in is doing the shit I hate, and I have too much of that.

AG
 

---

Posted by Celtic Knotweed (# 13008) on :
 
...and the result arrived in my in-box on Friday. I didn't get the job. Time to start hunting once more.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and I haven't heard owt either, so it's back to banging my head against the wall. After a decade or so, you'd think I'd finally crack it...

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Your head or the wall???

Seriously though, sorry to hear your and CK's less-than-helpful news.

I wish I could offer something more useful than my prayers and "better luck next time".


 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
It would be nice if it was the wall, but it seems to be my head.

Piglet, I'd much rather have someone admitting they can't help than some of the patronising crap I've had from people who should know better, who then walk off thinking they've done something wonderful, or feel they've done their duty by saying something. At least here people share their experience and you can discuss stuff.

AG
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
As someone who is just about to jump back into this, I reckon 10 applications for an interview, 10 interviews for a job as a rough rule of thumb. Which at least keeps me going when I'm not enjoying the process, but means I'm going to have to be very targeted in what I'm doing to try and reduce the number of interviews (as it's damn difficult to hide that many when you're working).
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Wow. That reminds me again of some of the benefits of being a social worker. (Think I might have done half a dozen applications and 3 interviews to get my first post, the next time I applied for one job only and got it.)

My old employer which I left 18 months ago is advertising vacancies. Going back there wouldn't be ideal for various reasons, but I don't think I can completely rule it out.

Two related questions:

1) They're advertising that they have a number of vacancies. At interview stage, can I realistically indicate which team manager I'd prefer to work for if s/he has a vacancy? (I'm guessing the answer is no.)

2) If I were to apply and be offered a post, could I ask who my team manager would be before deciding whether to accept the post? (I'm thinking the answer is yes to this one.)
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Oh look - my 3000th post on the Ship was about work issues - I have an awful feeling that might be indicative of what I spend a lot of time on here fretting about!
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Zoey, I think the answers to your questions are Yes and Yes.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask which teams have the vacancies and which members/managers there are in each team. In the gang I worked for there were certain managers/colleagues that would have made my life impossible - I would do your best to be assertive about things.

But then I was always a bit of a bolshie so-and-so.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Indeed, there are team managers there who I would flat-out refuse to work for. On the other hand, the best manager I've had in my career so far was there and is still there - not sure that balances out the fact that I've moved house so it would be a long-ish commute now and the fact that I was not the service manager's favourite employee by a very long stretch - but my first manager was *lovely*. (Also, she was so gracious. I don't think I'd ever quite gain the skill she has, but would like more chance to try to pick it up - she was gracious even when firmly disagreeing with others, you could tell she really didn't agree at all, but she never got arsey or petulant about it - which is what I tend to do. It still baffles me how she did it and gains immense admiration from me.)
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Where the holy flip do I find 100 jobs to apply for?

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck to everyone job searching.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
And I didn't get as far as an interview.

Fucking fuckety fucking fuck fuck.

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I suggest all jobseekers read a copy of What Color is Your Parachute? if they have not done so already.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I did. It made me feel like throwing up.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
OK, I'm a bit emotional today, I exaggerate, but it was very, very not me.

Adrian
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
The whole point of the book is that it is not most people. It suggests a non-traditional form of job search because the traditional sense doesn't work for many job seekers.

[edited to add a space - WW]

[ 15. October 2014, 00:54: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
When I worked as a Vocational Guidance counsellor (before they made us all redundant ) I found that some people found that book really helpful, while it really irritated others. As I worked in a small, conservative town with high unemployment few of the employers were open to anything other than a straightforward application, and most people who got work were appointed due to nepotism anyway.

Sandemaniac I don't often post on this thread as I'm not currently looking for work, but I do read it. I wish I could offer some practical assistance, but I can't, all I can say is that I admire your tenacity and hope some employer sees sense before long.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
Well, the most recent application went in - with the advice followed on what to say when it asked for why I wanted the job. I got someone senior to read it for me and made changes as recommended by her. I was told I'd hear within two weeks if I got an interview, and nothing if not. It's not quite two weeks yet (that would be Friday) but I know the interviews are meant to be next week, so am assuming I didn't get one .

My current job is basically sucking the life out of me, and I've not had a job interview for a while. I really don't know what else I can try, so am feeling pretty despondent right now. I could do everything on the person spec, and all the development stuff they were looking to do in the next couple of years, so now I suppose I just have to try and work out if there's someone I can go to for feedback. I think it's mainly faceless HR though.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
To get past the HR / short-listing process you need to make sure you tick enough boxes on the job requirements.

Basically, because this I've done too, and it improved my job applications no end, the person doing the short list has to get the pile of applications down to a manageable number to interview. So say you start with a pile of 50 applications for 3 posts. Maximum you can interview properly in a day is 6, allowing an hour an interview. For 3 posts maybe you would want to interview 12 - allowing two days of interviews.

First obvious weed out is anyone who doesn't match the job criteria. Any application where the handwriting is hard work to read goes here along with applications that look as if the candidate can't be bothered because they are full of typos and misspellings: life is too short to interview anyone who isn't interested. People who have had the wit to type responses and stick them in boxes tend to get kudos. I tried to be fair and had a tick list of what the job required and how well the applications matched - lots of places use computers to do this.

Second weed is on what is said - this is where applications which have long unexplained absences from work, patchy work histories, lots of walking out of jobs with no notice or not making it through probation or anything that suggests they would be hard to work with, would not stay after the initial training or are not team players tend to get removed. Absences with explanations aren't so suspicious. Once someone applied well over employment age and knowing the attrition rate of young hale people she fell at this hurdle but it was also the implications from the employment law issues that meant she went. You can calculate ages from employment history and exam result dates, whatever the legislation says.

These two filters will often be done by HR. So no-one who knows anything about the role, just doing checks against a job specification.

Then, hopefully the pile is down to something manageable, and goes to the department employing. Now other factors come into force, like additional things to offer: skills that would be useful or profiles that would improve the team profile. It's here arbitrary decisions like this candidate is offering things we already have a surfeit of on the team come into play, so the person who is offering something different gets the interview.

Now you can do a lot as an applicant to deal with the first two filters, both of which should be implicit in the application process. The third is hopefully transparent too, but when the employer has got a pile of applications to get down into a number the company has time to interview some arbitrariness of selection may come in.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Just popping by to wish all job seekers good luck. It seems to me from my recent experience of helping my son find work, that who gets invited for interview is often in the hands of people who don't really know what the job is about, so as CK says ticking all the boxes for what they think they want is the key.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Huia:
all I can say is that I admire your tenacity and hope some employer sees sense before long.

---

• 2 unsuccessful applications with no interview;
• 2 unsuccessful interviews;
• 4 other employers applied to and waiting to hear - 1 of these employers has two vacancies, the other 3 are all advertising multiple vacancies - quite hoping I get an offer from one of these four, please God?
• 1 plan for my trade union to try to help me kick current employer's arse into gear a little bit, especially since I did declare a disability before I started in this post and they have been a little bit lousy with any reasonable adjustments.

 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Short-listing is in two stages usually. HR weed to get rid of the obviously unsuitable who don't meet any criteria. The pile that gets past that check goes to the department for short-listing into the group that are worth inviting to an interview. I suspect you've got to stage 2. And whether you get an interview at that stage would depend on how many posts there are, how many in the pile that got past HR and how much time and manpower they can afford to spend interviewing.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Thanks. Useful to know.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
*Pokes onto front page again*

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Always happy to provide support based on my decade as a student employment counsellor.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Hmmmmm. I am down a rabbit-hole (in the Alice In Wonderland sense). Have been offered an interview at the employer I left on not wonderful terms 18 months ago (and the person I've been told to ask for when arriving for interview is a manager I know - not one of the ones I would refuse to work for, fortunately). Got a couple of weeks to work out whether I am going to attend the interview or duck out on the basis it's all a bit too weird.

Annoyingly, the employer I like best out of the four I've currently applied to has just re-advertised their posts extending the closing date by nearly a month (this is not the same employer as previously re-advertised and extended their closing date) - come on people! I know there aren't enough social workers around, but is extending your closing dates really going to get you that many more candidates or is it just going to piss off those who've already applied (i.e. me) and force them into accepting a different job they don't entirely want? Agh.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Probably nothing to lose by attending an interview. It's good practice even if you are pretty certain to decline any job offer.

Usually, re-advertising a position means that you are less than pleased with the applicant pool you received.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I'd agree with Caissa - you can never really get too much practice, even if you don't think you'd take the job if it were offered. Just don't let them know that's what you're thinking!

Good luck!
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
One of the questions I've been asked (and asked) at the end of an interview is if the interviewee is still interested in the post. This is for school roles. By then candidate has seen the school, met most of the key people involved, had any questions answered in the interview and may well know that this is not a good fit for them, for whatever reason. It's far better to know at this point as it takes them off the short-listing for offers of a post.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I used to find it mildly amusing that prospective employers would end an interview by saying "If you were offered the job, would you take it?" - it was tempting to reply, "No - I'm putting myself through the nerve-racking torture of being interviewed for the good of my health".

I don't think I've ever been interviewed for a job that I wouldn't have taken if offered; the only time I've turned down an interview was when I'd applied for several jobs in the same place, but with varying degrees of permanence, full-time/part-time etc. When I was offered a full-time, permanent job (which was what I wanted at the time) I withdrew my other applications.

Having said that, if the interviewer is the person you're going to be working with/for, it's possible that the interview may be enough to let you know that it's Not For You and you should run a mile.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:
Having said that, if the interviewer is the person you're going to be working with/for, it's possible that the interview may be enough to let you know that it's Not For You and you should run a mile.

---

Oh boy, isn't that the truth?

AG
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Oh I have been interviewed for a job I would not have taken after the interview. About half way through the assessment came up a task which I held to be wrong headed. I was really glad I was not offered the job.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Argh.

All going so well. Started Career Coaching (mostly, it seems, at the mo directed at finding me rather than a career. Well, I suppose I'm here, so that's a start), feeling as positive as I have been for ages, then sat down at tea break on the next table to a group loudly discussing how the hell you shortlisted 200 plus CVs... Christ, not what I needed to overhear, then followed that up by discovering I'd made a stupid cockup through not caring... All in all, a bit of a meltdown.

Oh well, there's always Lidl.

AG
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
I'm just back in my (postdoc) job this week after maternity leave. I have 4 months part time left on my contract - it finishes at the end of February. I decided while on maternity leave (although I'm pretty sure I would have come to the same conclusion anyway, regardless of having a baby or not) that academia isn't the right environment for me. Lots of reasons, and not at all reflective of the team I work in or my colleagues, who are all great, but it's definitely the right decision. I have an application form to complete to join the local nurse bank, as my registration is due next year so I need to get some shifts in, so at least I don't have the worry of not knowing what's next. But I do have to get through the next 4 months when my heart isn't really in it, and I do also worry that, because my heart isn't fully in health visiting either, I will end up a bit unfulfilled. I think I've talked here before about wanting to combine research and clinical practice in the NHS rather than in an academic setting, but those jobs are few and far between. Oh well - I know I am lucky that at least I have the health visiting to fall back on (providing I get enough shifts between March and July to reregister).
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
I've now got two invites to interview for next week - only problem is that they're for exactly the same time at two employers about an hour's drive apart from each other.

Plan of action:
*Phone the employer I haven't worked for before to check a couple of points about their vacancy.
*Do Careful Thinking about pros and cons of employer I've worked for before.
*Read Ofsted reports (with required salt cellar to hand).
*If I want to attend both interviews, ask to rearrange with the employer which has given me less than a week's notice and keeps readvertising its posts and extending the closing date anyway.
*Scratch head a great deal and feel puzzled generally about what I should be doing with my career.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good luck, Zoey!
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I would try to reschedule the interview as soon as possible because the epotential employer may need to time to rearrange their schedule.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Have rearranged so I can attend both interviews (took someone's cancelled slot for one of them). Don't think either job is perfect fit for me but suspect I will have to take whatever I'm offered because current job will be becoming unbearable (awful meeting of awfulness today ).
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I don't think a job is ever ideal; I think we make the best of any job through our service to others. I have spent 20 years in university student services and thoruoughly enjoyed it. I just finished reading Get Off Your Donkey which has a lot to speak to about approaching work.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
So how often do interviewers say to failed candidates that they'd be welcome to apply again in the future?

Didn't get one job I quite liked the look of - feeling amazingly calm and stoical about this tonight. I wasn't well enough prepared for the interview overall and was also thrown by the first question which I found odd (but which I'll know to prepare for in future). Interviewer feedback was that my interview answers needed to be stronger, but they'd welcome me applying to them again in the future. (I did point out that they keep re-advertising every month at present and asked how long before I could re-apply. Interviewer refused to be drawn on a timescale, but I'm guessing not before Christmas and they'd probably like about 6 months at least.)
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Did the interviewer define "stronger"?
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
I think I know what she meant. I needed to big myself up more and be more confident in presenting examples of when my practice has been good (the whole competency-focussed recruitment which is very popular). Partly, I hadn't prepared for this particular interview enough. Partly, I haven't had a great 18 months professionally. I know that 18 months ago I gave a very good interview for my current job (was told so by one of the interviewers when I'd started the job). I need to get my equilibrium back a bit, focus on examples of when I've done my job well and get back to being able to present smoothly and confidently in interviews again. (When I asked about a timeframe for re-applying, the answer was something about when I'm more confident in my practice and being able to give good examples of it.)
 

---

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:

I don't think I've ever been interviewed for a job that I wouldn't have taken if offered;

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zoey:
So how often do interviewers say to failed candidates that they'd be welcome to apply again in the future?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
... how the bloody hell do I come across as being desperately excited by Prof Whelkfelcher's research on terpenes in cardiac arrythmia in the lesser spotted haddock louse when really and truly what excites me is the prospect of doing something useful? ...

---

Declaration of interest: I work for a geneticist specialising in cardiac arrhythmia.

I know you're being somewhat facetious, but research into cardiac arrhythmia can be very useful. Have you considered genetics - either research or genetic counselling? I'm not a scientist (more of a typist really: I produce family trees on a computer program), but I can see the value of my boss's research, which can lead to advice about potentially life-saving treatment.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
OK... that was a longer weekend than planned, being marooned at my parents for an extra night owing to flooded roads... but I'll try to take the points in order of appearance.

Doublethink: I had not particularly thought of healthcare, as I never registered my degree with whatever the qualifying body is called this week. At the very least I should investigate the existence of training schemes, though. Hopefully being in my early forties isn't too late... Salary-wise I'm on 28K at the mo, which I don't particularly want to go much below without the likelihood of considerable potential for advancement (if we don't get a mortgage very soon, we'll never get one).

Caissa: Exactly! I live in a large dark blue university city surrounded by science parks and companies of varying sizes, but I fall into a gap. Without a PhD or the alarming length of industry experience being asked for at the moment all I am going to be able to try for is low level tech roles, for which I am hugely overqualified and I know from conversations with agencies they can't get anyone to take my CV seriously as they assume I'll just leave the moment something else turns up. That and the salaries for such roles top out at 6K less than I am on now - I have taken that sort of hit before to have a job, any job, but as a career move, those roles are a non-starter.

On Thursday I will be going to one of the local Bioscience Network's networking events, but it's a total lottery as to who will be represented there - it might all be people like me looking for jobs, or it might all be medical writing firms, or IT consultancies - I wish there was a way of seeding who was turning up!

Piglet: My boss is an "expert" on congenital heart disease, but a total disaster area as an employer and researcher, should have picked this up before I took the post, but I was in one of those situations where you have to take what you can get. If I could remember any genetics any more...

AG
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
If I hadn't been so bloody tired after a marathon of sorting out 7 lots of mangled Annual Statement Review paperwork at 1am this morning (it's taken a couple of weeks and most of last weekend and two weekends ago too), I would have accompanied the final batch with my notice. I really, really did not agree to this, I've already left one job because that's what my life became ...

Aargh - really back on here, so long as the relentless work load gives me enough of a break to apply for some jobs.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I wish I could say something useful. All I can offer is that I had a chat last week with someone who recognised me having been on an interview panel (I guess it's hard to forget an interview where the scheduling has been so fouled up - hour interviews, on the day they find that personnel have scheduled everyone for half-hour slots... - that a candidate has to go and top up his car park fee!).

She did four months working in Quality Assurance and one Friday simply walked into the bosses' office and said that she wasn't coming back. Of course, then you have to pay the bills...

AG
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
moneysavingexpert recommends, if at all possible, building up enough savings to cover 6 months living costs available in case of emergency. My recent bout of sick leave has highlighted to me how much I now want to start doing this. (I got significantly more than statutory sick pay, but significantly less than my usual wage and am the furthest into my overdraft I think I've ever been in my life.) If I had had such an amount of savings to hand, I would probably have handed in my notice at current work before getting a new job. I keep reminding myself that it would probably not be tactful to tell management this and would dig me a bigger hole than I'm already in.
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
OK... that was a longer weekend than planned, being marooned at my parents for an extra night owing to flooded roads... but I'll try to take the points in order of appearance.

Doublethink: I had not particularly thought of healthcare, as I never registered my degree with whatever the qualifying body is called this week. At the very least I should investigate the existence of training schemes, though. Hopefully being in my early forties isn't too late... Salary-wise I'm on 28K at the mo, which I don't particularly want to go much below without the likelihood of considerable potential for advancement (if we don't get a mortgage very soon, we'll never get one).

Caissa: Exactly! I live in a large dark blue university city surrounded by science parks and companies of varying sizes, but I fall into a gap. Without a PhD or the alarming length of industry experience being asked for at the moment all I am going to be able to try for is low level tech roles, for which I am hugely overqualified and I know from conversations with agencies they can't get anyone to take my CV seriously as they assume I'll just leave the moment something else turns up. That and the salaries for such roles top out at 6K less than I am on now - I have taken that sort of hit before to have a job, any job, but as a career move, those roles are a non-starter.

On Thursday I will be going to one of the local Bioscience Network's networking events, but it's a total lottery as to who will be represented there - it might all be people like me looking for jobs, or it might all be medical writing firms, or IT consultancies - I wish there was a way of seeding who was turning up!

Piglet: My boss is an "expert" on congenital heart disease, but a total disaster area as an employer and researcher, should have picked this up before I took the post, but I was in one of those situations where you have to take what you can get. If I could remember any genetics any more...

AG

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink.:
That is roughly equivalent to a Band 5 salary in the NHS. If they train you for a role (3 to 7 years depending on profession) they want at least 10 years possible work so you could career switch. Some post grad trainings are salaried (you train and see patients under supervision) - you should look into it.

---

I will certainly look that up, thank you. Management on the other hand has no appeal whatsoever, and I cannot imagine I'm emotionally cut out for social work. On the positive side, it's good to have some different suggestions. I may just go postal on the next person to suggest I'd make a great teacher. Or at the very least get medieval on their arse. I'd do both, but the Penny Post wasn't invented until 1840.

AG
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
You might also want to think about something like this: http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Patients-given-gift-normality-Addenbrooke-8217-s/story-22927848-detail/story.html but I have no idea what is involved pay and training wise. I would have thought someone with lab tech experience would have the necessary precision and attention to detail though.

ETA I think it is related to this career path http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/dental-team/careers-in-the-dental-team/maxillofacial-prosthetist/ - reconstrtion scientist type thingy.

[ 26. November 2014, 23:47: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
That's smashing, thank you, Doublethink. Looks like my reading for the next few days is sorted!

AG
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
After considerable effort by all involved, our entire family (my, Mrs Sioni and our five children) are all gainfully employed!

There's a part-time job and a zero-hours one (spit) amongst them but a job is a job.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Sounds good going to me. Hopefully the zero hours one (spit dang) will soon gt something more stable (and the part time one, if that's what they need).

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I can see why zero-hour contracts make people's blood boil.

My first job after qualifying as a secretary was as a receptionist in a local hotel. I was taken on at 16 hours per week on specific shifts and paid in buttons. When the hotel changed hands, it was low-season and the new owners decided that I should phone them (not even them phone me) before each expected shift to find out whether they needed me. It wasn't called zero-hours (I don't suppose the term had been coined then - it was 30 years ago), but that's what it was, and it sucked more than a Hoover.

However, as you said, a job is a job, and it's always easier to get one when you're already in one.
 

---

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
I have a friend who is a medical technician at Addenbrookes (Christian too), though I'm not sure her field. But there must be numerous opportunities between the hospital and the medical research department. Hospitals are generally friendly places to work and I like my time there.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
While I don't live in Cambridge, I do live in Another Blue University City, and we have an absolute plethora of hospitals here, as well as the associated research departments (if I could just get into one closer to the clinic, that would suit me down to the ground...), so this is all good stuff to hear...

(quick count on fingers - I can think of at least six, before getting on to allied departments!)

AG
 

---

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :
 
I'm trying to remind myself that everyone going through prolonged unemployment feels like there's something wrong with them, that they might be unemployable. But of course, I'm the one person who's actually right about that. What makes it harder, though, is that both times I've been laid off were right after major bipolar episodes. And I'm still hurting quite a bit over the way G***e Cathedral let me go. I'm glad to be home in Detroit, but there aren't even temp jobs here, I'm finding. Nothing. I have a friend I'm living with who isn't going to let me starve, thank God. Otherwise, I'd be homeless. But my car keeps acting up...and when our house was broken into a couple weeks ago, my computer was stolen...and it's just all the little stuff like that that makes me want to just give up. It's hard enough keeping on top of my health/health care.

I keep thinking the worst thing I feared has happened (ran out of financial aid for school...then lost my job...etc.) and I'm OK, but then more crap happens.
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
A loved one who has been struggling to find work has found some, thank God.

I need to look into teaching some classes online or something to supplement our income. I'm very tired of say, a car repair completely derailing our basic survival budget. We keep having to borrow money from people just to get by.

Prayers for all here.
 

---

Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :
 
is a zero hours contract the same as what we'd call casual work in Australia? Is the employee under any obligation to the employer to be available if and when required?
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
I have been offered a new job

This is not going to transform my life or be the end of me ever suffering work-related misery. But it is what I want and I think I have learnt from the past two years (even if much of that learning has been undertaken in the don't-do-x-because-you-know-from-experience-that-doing-x-leaves-you-royally-screwed fashion). I know at least one person is going to think I am making a bad choice by taking this job. Well - I make the best choices I can at the time and then I live with them. Said person does not have to live my life and I do.

Here's to hoping I don't have to return to the job-seeking grind for at least a couple of years again now.
 

---

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
Hearty congrats, Zoey.

[ 09. December 2014, 18:32: Message edited by: Uncle Pete ]
 

---

Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 
Zoey - so pleased for you!

Mrs. S, full of vicarious delight
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Congratulations, Zoey.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
It's about bloody time someone had some good news here!

Hope everything works out for you, Zoey.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Congratulations, Zoey - hope it turns out well for you.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Congratulations Zoey and enjoy the job.

No parade goes unrained upon, but that person to whom you refer, not you, will need the umbrella.
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
Well, I have sent in one application and I have a couple of forms waiting to be filled in. Only voluntary jobs for now, just to get back into the habit & routine of working, but it is scary how much experience some organisations expect from their volunteers!
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
They should be glad of their volunteers!

It's not a bad idea to do a bit of voluntary work if you've been out of the market for a while - it's always something else to put on your CV, and shows potential "real" employers that you're making the effort.

When we came to Canada and I wasn't eligible for paid work, they were looking for a volunteer in the Cathedral office, so I jumped at the chance, as it kept my hand in and gave me something to do.

As it happens, I'm still doing it, as my "proper" job is a part-time one and my boss is flexible enough about my hours that I can fit it in.

Best of luck!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Ho hum. well, I have one application in, and I went to speak to someone yesterday about the job they are advertising. They very quickly said "well you appear to have all the skills"... then added "but we will probably be recruiting at the low end of the pay band.

Jesus wept! Every time we try to get a fucking mortgage, my bloody pay goes down again! What the fuck happened to being rewarded for experience? I feel like this place has kicked me from pillar to fucking post, but just won't let me get the fuck out. And the Departmental Administrator keeps commenting on my cynicism...

AG
(I think I feel better for getting that of my chest)
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
If only getting paid work was so easy!

I filled in 2 forms, was invited to 2 interviews and was offered a job at the first. I start sorting books at the Oxfam bookshop on 29th Dec.

It is a boost to my confidence to know that I am wanted.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
JoannaP -
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, I have an interview in the New Year. It's still in the same university (in fact, in the same department, which should create some very interesting politics with Pointy Haired Boss), but hopefully the atmosphere will be a lot more positive. Hell, surely it can't be less positive? Actually, that's a little unfair - I've done my due diligence on what the chap is like to work with, and everyone says he's pretty good and it seems a happy lab. Likewise the lab for the other role I'm applying for, which is actually more my thing, but the closing date isn't until two days after the interview...

Please let this be a step in the right direction...

AG
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I am looking for work. I have a great CV, but I need work nearby. Unfortunately, I seem to have run out of local companies - for some reason they don;t like me much. Or I need another type of work.

Today I have finally produced an alternative CV, in am attempt to move to a different type of role. Now I find that they don't accept CVs, I need to fill out their own on-line application form, which will take me hours.

I hate looking for work. It is SO soul destroying.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I hate looking for work. It is SO soul destroying.

---

Gods, yes! No-one ever seems to understand just how gut-wrenchingly painful the procedure is. It's taken a decade for the Careers Service here to recruit someone who acknowledges that, and understands why sometimes people act as though they are really fucked up. It's because they are really fucked up by it and, unlike the bright young things who've done a PhD and fancy doing something different, he's been there and done that.

Good luck! If only I could say something more useful.

AG
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
I've finally started serious job hunting after a year and a half off. ( I quit the last job rather than explode.) The new job started with them calling me and trying to convince me to apply. I did a serious of phone calls on that and then did a technical interview by phone after a couple of weeks of cramming college algorithm classes, since the fashion is to ask coding questions based on college work. I've had to do this every five or ten years and I'm always amused that the algorithms have actually improved since I was in college.
Anyhow after a nervous week and a half od no reply they said I passed the phone interview and want to schedule a round of in person interviews. I'm not sure if it will be this week or in January.

I'm not wild about the company but in the process of lying about why I wanted to work there, I'm almost convince myself it could be an ok to work. At worst it's good practice for other companies. The only company I applied for I didn't make it through the phone technical interview. So this is an improvement.

I do hate job hunting. I'm sorry I can't just retire now.
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Hi all,

old newbie de-lurking here...

I have been thinking of a career move into social work for a long time but the avenues I have tried so far to gain some work-shadowing opportunities(local council, some friends connected to charities) have not been successful so far.

I stumbled across this thread and Doublethink and Zoey mentioned social work, so here I am asking for advice....

I am interested in adult social work with elderly or in the field of mental health (have been a carer for a long time and volunteer with the homeless), so what would be the best way to gain some work experience / work-shadowing opportunities?

I am in my mid-30s, so before I commit to a new career, I want to get a better idea of the day-to-day nature of the job!

Any suggestions gratefully appreciated!

Lia
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Can't help myself, but can you confirm where you are in the world? It sounds like the UK but if you confirm that, it'll help getting the right replies.

AG
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Just to update, I have now got a new job. What strikes me is that even though I am well qualified, it is still very hard to get work.

It makes me seriously worried for those with less defined skills, or less marketable ones. It must be a nightmare. Prayers for others on here going through this.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Congratulations, SC - hope it works out well.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Lia - I'm a children's social worker based in the UK. Am in the process of composing a reply which I'll post at some point.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
H'okay, here goes ...

In England (and I think the rest of the UK), ‘social worker’ is now a protected job title – i.e. in order to call yourself a social worker you need an approved social-work degree and you need to be registered as a social worker with the Health and Care Professionals Council. (This started in the 2000s. Before then people could have a diploma or lots of experience to be a social worker. I think there was some system to allow unqualified people with lots of experience to keep being social workers when the new regulations came in, but anyone wanting to become a social worker now definitely needs one of the approved degrees.)

Your question is interesting in that you’re asking about how to be more sure about what the job entails for yourself, rather than about how to get enough experience to be accepted onto an approved degree course. From your post, it sounds as though you already have enough experience that if you presented yourself well you would get accepted onto a degree course (it’s some years since I was applying, but I seem to remember a ball-park requirement was 6 months full-time experience in some kind of caring role *but* most of the courses would look favourably on relevant part-time and personal experience, so e.g. 3 years of being an unpaid carer and 1 year helping out once a week at a homelessness charity would play just as well as a 6-month full-time care-work job).

Getting work experience in a statutory social-work team prior to being on a social-work degree course is generally extremely difficult / impossible. However, social-work degree courses which qualify one to become a social worker must include 200 days of practical placements. (I did a masters with two 100-day placements. I think bachelors courses also require 200 days, but they may be split up into e.g. one 20-day placement, one 80-day placement, one 100-day placement.) Clearly, these will give you a good idea of what’s entailed working in your placement setting.

During the first fortnight of my social-work degree, one of the tutors told us all that every two or three years somebody comes to the staff after a couple of months and says that the degree is not what they thought and actually they don’t think it’s for them – and there’s no shame in doing this.

I suppose I’m fortunate in that I’m relatively good at envisaging what things might be like and what social work has proved to be like is close enough to my expectations for me not to have experienced any major disappointments of my expectations. You might need to settle for talking to some social workers in detail about what their day-to-day routine is like rather than being able to work-shadow. Personally, I would say that social work is always very full on, but there is a varied range of activities involved. Some time will be spent one-to-one with the people on your caseload, some time will be spent in group settings (e.g. meetings with other professionals and possibly your service-users and/or their family members), you will need to spend a lot of time writing case notes and reports, you might have to go to court to argue for what you think is needed in a particular case.

The thing which people expressed most surprise about on my degree course was how much law is involved in social work (and therefore how much study of law is involved in a social-work degree). Theorising about the nature of social work is an interesting philosophical exercise – is social work more about supporting people or about exercising control over them (most forms of social work tend to involve both aspects to a greater or lesser extent)? I’m a children’s social worker, so the heavy end of my job involves going to court to argue for the granting of court orders under the Children Act 1989 which are needed in order to e.g. take a child into foster care or place them for adoption. Mental-health social workers can train to become Approved Mental Health Professionals, who have a key role in deciding whether to section people under the Mental Health Act. Work with other vulnerable adults can involve applying to the Court Of Protection if the person lacks capacity under the Mental Capacity Act and you want to make major decisions on their behalf. And so on. I’ve actually been to court much more with my job than a uni friend who’s been a solicitor for a similar length of time (but just sits in an office doing contract law).

Hope some of that helps. As I say, I’m not sure you’ll be able to get direct work-shadowing experience. It’s a case of finding out as much as you can about what the job would entail in order to try to envisage whether it would suit you. Having said that, there are quite a variety of social-work roles available, so getting the degree wouldn’t necessarily tie you down to one particular type of job anyway.

(In terms of down sides to the job – resources are currently a big issue. It’s demoralising not being able to give people the help you think they need. I believe this may be more of an issue in adult care than in children’s – child protection still tends to get a half-decent level of resources for a variety of reasons, including, for example, the fact no council wants the next Baby Peter or Daniel Pelka story to come from their population.)

Hope that helps a bit. If you have further questions, do ask.

[ 28. December 2014, 16:37: Message edited by: Zoey ]
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
Also, there are now social care reviewer roles in various specialisties where you work in a social care team under the supervision of a social worker - not entirely sure what qualifications are required - but that would be another way of seeing what you think.
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Thank you all so much for your replies and especially to Zoey for the comprehensive post - much to think about there and I take some encouragement from the fact that it is difficult to get a placement if not already accepted on a degree course, so the refusals were not necessarily personal.

Sandemaniac - I live in the UK, currently work in IT (hence still in the office today), have an MA in literature and have previously worked as a translator - as this would be my third career move, I really want to make sure as much as possible that I am a good fit for the job and vice versa.
I am in my 30s and would like to get it right this time...

I suppose I am looking for a job that is absorbing (I don't mind working long hours)and where I can structure my interest for older people in a more professionalised way, rather than making a living from a job I don't identify with and volunteering in my spare time (which I do).

Doublethink - I will definitely look at the reviewer roles you mention and see what these require.

I will probably come back with more questions in 2015 but if you have any more advice, keep it coming and happy new year to all!

Lia
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and the application is in for the afore-cursed-about position.

Who knows what it will bring - I have reached the stage of desperation to get out of the current situation, instead of trying to make positive moves (though I might actually get to use a few of my skills, instead of being treated like a rather ignorant monkey). I must also start working on trying to get an interview outside of the university, though this may be difficult without industry experience (another topic already sworn about at length upthread).

Meanwhile, I remain cynical about career coaching until it comes up with something I haven't thought of (though it scores over the Careers Service in appearing to actually listen to me occasionally, as opposed to making fluffy noises).

I probably ought to start beating the living shit out of people who make patronising suggestions too, in the hope that news gets around.

Oh, and Doublethink came up with a suggestion upthread that sounded like absolute genius. However investigating it properly has thus far been foiled by a total absence of any information about whether there are any open days here, and a "we can't really be arsed" email response when I tried to find out more. A) I'd expect better from something that presumably is trying to recruit people and B) I'd expect better from somewhere with a stupid number of hospitals.

Ah well, roll on the other 361 days of 2015...

AG
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
..
Meanwhile, I remain cynical about career coaching until it comes up with something I haven't thought of (though it scores over the Careers Service in appearing to actually listen to me occasionally, as opposed to making fluffy noises).

I probably ought to start beating the living shit out of people who make patronising suggestions too, in the hope that news gets around.

....

---

Having been on the other side of that discussion, although beating up the patronising ones would give the good ones hope, I would suggest more likely an outcome would just be an increase in general bureaucratic sloth.


I spent a good chunk of my management time trying to find ways for my employment worker staff to see when people took what they said and found jobs. I wanted to install a bell and ring it loud and celebrate when somebody got a job but was over ruled.

People do find jobs - just never quick enough.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I guess there is a certain comfort in knowing that it's a struggle on the other side of the fence too, Og!

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well I woke up this morning...
[guitar] Da-nana-naNA![/guitar]
with the post-interview blues.

Still haven't heard anything back after Wednesday's interview, but not feeling confident at all. I felt there was a really funny dynamic to the interview, the panel were far more interested in what was going on in my current lab than in anything I'd written, or anything I'd done. That's not good as the current job is sucking my motivation like a high-class whore with a Dyson due to the pointlessness of it and the lunacy of the boss.

Oh, and the course they've finally found enough people interested to be worth running that I've been on a waiting list for for months is to be run by someone I have come to regard as a source of meaningless platitudes. Joy upon joy.

Ho hum.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and on top of all that I didn't get the job.

I really, really, really hate the whole soul sucking shittiness of it all, and the soul sucking shithole I work in.

Just thought you should know.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Sorry to hear that, Sandemaniac - it does indeed suck great festering goose-balls.

for better luck next time (not really helpful I know, but it's the best I can do).
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Sorry to hear about it Sandemaniac. I'm waiting myself to hear back after an all day interview loop that left me fried last Thursday. I'm dubious about getting the job, but it would have been nice to get a reply today like they said they would.

Hang in there.
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
Oh Sandemaniac How rubbish.

I am coming to the end of my fixed term contract at work, and had an interview last week for bank health visiting (HVing was what I did before PhD and then again between PhD and this postdoc). It went well, they are pretty desperate so (in line with all the other HV interviews I've ever had) it was mainly to ascertain that I do actually only have one head, and they said there will be plenty of work for me. They also encouraged me to apply for a couple of permanent part-time positions, and I agreed to let my application form be scanned and submitted for a post with a closing date of last Thursday. Given the state of HV recruitment, it will be pretty unlikely that I'm not shortlisted. However, I am in 2 minds about it: on the one hand, it would be much better from the financial point of view - security, decent leave, childcare vouchers, pension, etc. BUT, psychologically I am just not sure. I don't actually WANT to be a HV permanently, so was happy to just temp on the bank to get the hours in to be able to renew my registration, knowing that in theory I could walk away pretty easily, and carry on plodding on with that till I found something I wanted to do more. The thought of going back to a permanent position (even one with a nice caseload, based 5 minutes from home) feels like a massive step back, and coupled with my fragility and disappointment about an academic career not working out, I am really not sure that it is the right thing to do - I don't know how I will mentally cope with the thought of taking a step back again. BUT if I didn't go for the permanent position it would mean that financially etc I wouldn't be as secure.

It's very nice to be wanted and in demand. But I really want someone to tell me what to do, and exactly how long it will be before my dream job (whatever that is!) will turn up, so I can make a sensible decision.
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
I didn't get the job either. It's mildly annoying since they found me, but it's a downer. I've spent a month going through the process with these folks including an 8 hour interview loop.

So it goes.. back to searching for openings.
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Jack The Lass; does working at the HV job preclude looking for the dream job? I left my last job and it's harder to find one without a current job. If your temp is expiring, maybe a full time job you don't want makes you more attractive to the eventual dream employer.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I was wondering the same thing, Palimpsest. They say it's always easier to find a job when you're in one, and if nothing else, it'll (a) keep the wolf from the door; and (b) keep one's brain-cells in working order.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
If there was a TICTH thread running, I'd have consigned CV rewriting to it a long, long time ago. I am seriously considering stapling my scrotum to a plank for light relief, it's so unpleasant.

AG
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
That is something I must do, soon (as in, a couple of months ago). But I last wrote one over 20 years ago...
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Writing and rewriting a cv provides an opportunity to reflect on what you have done and what skills you have to offer a prospective employer. One needs to remember that the primary purpose of a cv is secure an interview. After that it is a whole different ballgame.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Alternatively, it provides you with an opportunity to wonder how on earth you spin working for a nutjob who won't trust anyone to do even the most basic tasks, resulting in your skills lying unused and forgotten. How on earth do I sell that?

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
You state what you did in the position. Most of us have had jobs where we felt our skills were under-utilized.

[ 21. January 2015, 13:29: Message edited by: Caissa ]
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Assuming that your present boss isn't going to see the CV, would something along the lines of "My present post doesn't stretch my intellectual abilities quite as much as I'd like; I'm looking for new challenges" be of any use?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
The answer to the first is "Very little" - certainly nothing that will impress anyone interested in recruiting me! The truth is going to have to take a serious hammering.

Piglet, that's pretty much the line I intend to use.

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I would save that sort of line for an interview and find a better way to phrase it.
 

---

Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
If there was a TICTH thread running, I'd have consigned CV rewriting to it a long, long time ago.

---

quote:

---

I am very good at getting things to work in ways that are not expected, but in my present lab everything is very routine, I would really like to have something that challenges this aspect of my work and have noticed that this post is looking at bring equipment Y into your lab and using in situation X where it has not been used before.

---

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
But that would go in the covering letter rather than the CV.

You can list your skills in several jobs. Bullet points for current job, previous job and the one before, possibly? If that's within a reasonable time frame. You give the skills you are actually using in this job that are relevant to the job you are applying for. It doesn't have to be detailed, 3/4 bullet points are fine. And the same for the previous couple of jobs, and they might run to 5 or 6 bullet points. If it is obvious you have the relevant skills and used them in a previous role and are not using skills currently that backs up your reason for moving jobs.

Didn't the previous job when you were using skills end as funding dried up? Because you can subtly drop that into the covering letter as an explanation as to why you moved fields

That gets your CV past a computerised or HR scan to check the right skills are there (they don't have to be in the current job) and the personalised covering letter read.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Thanks! I'd agree that that's covering letter rather than CV, but good advice nonetheless.

Cheers, everyone, I think that's helping me over this angst hurdle. I've fairly much decided that I've gone as far as I can where I am now, and will have to go outside (somewhat scary as I've only ever worked in academia) if I want to have any sort of career.

At the moment, I think I probably have to just get a CV and covering letter out at at as many things that look interesting as possible, and see what response I get - I need to work out what I stand a reasonable chance of getting interviews for, and I'm not sure how else to do it, especially as so many ads ask for eons of industry experience. Oh, and pull a few strings too...

AG
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I had a rather depressing revelation this week when I realised that I basically hate my job. I spend much of my time feeling as bored as Vyvyan.

Trouble is I don't know what else I know how to do. I'm going to have to give it some serious thought.
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
What do you currently do ?
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
If you can persuade them to take you then there are seminars and such aimed at getting PhD students to look for work beyond Academia. I know of Vitae is active in the UK but there are others.

Jengie

[ 24. January 2015, 10:15: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I love being a development worker, but one of the drawbacks is that you usually have short-term contracts, 2–3 years max.

In the last years I've been reasonably lucky, but my current contract will end in February, and it appears that I'll be entering unemployment, at least for a while.

I have a lot of experience, so I feel that something will come up eventually, but it does make me nervous. I started applying in November, and in December I almost got a job I was very interested in. I made it within the last two candidates, but it was not meant to be.

Prayers are appreciated, and good luck to everyone out there.
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I currently work in a law firm. I very much do not feel passionate about it.

At any rate, I don't think I'm seriously going to do much about finding anything else until after my wedding in April. My current frustration is going to have to stay on hold until then.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Just an aside, not really job hunt, but this is the sort of thing I'm trying to escape.

A new PhD student (God help her) arrived today, all the way from Saudi. Pointy Haired Boss sends various emails saying he'll be in after 12, phones up 12.30ish to find out what we've achieved since Friday when he asked last, and to generally interfere, then rings off again.

That's it. He doesn't reappear. So the poor lass has trekked thousands of miles, and he can't be arsed to see her.

Christ on a fecking bicycle, that's an awesome example of man management skills. Three years ago, the last student lasted three weeks. I hope her sake this one does the same.

AG
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
I am researching the idea of setting up as a freelancer. It looks do-able, but I need funds for training and other associated starting stuff and they are in short supply at the moment.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
What type of freelance work?
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I'm 46. I've worked in IT for 20 years and am learning to loathe it more and more.

Anyone with ideas about what a dyed in the wool techy can do for gainful employment that isn't IT? They'd be very welcome; consider it preparing a case for the Parole Board.

Please!


 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
There is an online free course on writing CVS here if it would help anyone - for three weeks, starts 9 February.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
A quick question: when you apply, do you normally send copies (scans) of all your diplomas and employers' certificates together with your resume and cover letter? Until now, I've only sent those when they specifically ask for it in the job announcement.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
No, if they need to see certificates they can ask me to bring them to the interview.
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I’ve had a bit of an idea about something I know how to do and actually enjoy doing. One of the few parts of my job I actually find stimulating and worthwhile is translating documents. I have discovered that the Chartered Institute of Linguists has an exam for a recognised Diploma in Translation. You don’t have to follow any courses if you don’t want to, you can just enter yourself for the exam and then turn up and take it (I can take it in Paris at the British Institute).

I’ve missed the deadline for this year but I’ve started working my way through the previous exam papers on their website to maybe take it next year. It’s quite competitive (50% pass rate in the general exam, more like 20% on the specialised ones) but I think I may well have the level for the general one at least, and possibly the specialised one in law and/or literature. This would be for French to English translation.

I think this could be a good way to go. I don’t want to have to go back to doing a lot of studies, but in France they always want you to have bits of paper of you don’t get a look-in, even if you’re very experienced. However, if I have a diploma at the top of my CV, along with all the experience, I think I might be in with a chance.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good on you, La Vie! That sounds like a very sensible idea, and could have the advantage that you could do it on a free-lance basis, working from home, or as a little extra earner in conjunction with another job.

Good luck!
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Well I'm piping in here, My everso dull work is coming to an end and it's all because I'm too efficient, too good at the job and so on. There isn't a requirement to have me full time and so the job will go part time or I take redundancy. I feel the company have someone else lined up already as I'm being shown how great redundancy is.

So I've started job hunting, rejected from a part time job in a supermarket, I just want to work. I've applied for another job where I think I would be a great great fit - it's all so anxiety making the whole thing.

The whole experience is turning my little world upside down and insecurities run rife. I'm so very tired with the worry and bewilderment.
 

---

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beenster:
I feel the company have someone else lined up already as I'm being shown how great redundancy is.

---

I think that may be illegal. Check with someone who knows employment law, but I think they're not allowed to employ anyone after a redundancy has been made.
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Spike you're right. They can't.

But I'm being offered a choice of the role in hours that would suit a working mother, not someone like me who would want the job p/t and another job p/t - or they are offering me redundancy.

So, they are well within the law as I'm being given the choice but being well steered so it won't work. If that makes sense.

I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid tho.
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Karl, there are several paths from IT if you want to use your knowledge. There are several places here that have "boot camp" for developers and who are usually looking for teachers. I don't know if there are any equivalents where you are.

I left my last job 18 months ago and am looking for a new one now, which may not happen. One thing I've been trying to sort out is how much the last job was toxic because of its own special faults and how much it's that I don't fit in the industry. I'm hoping it's the former. Have you considered IT for a non-profit or educational institute? That may be worse or simply different enough to be tolerable. If you're already in a non profit hell hole, then perhaps the bright lights of commercial IT might provide a change.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
An email in my inbox, from an agency who I know have my CV, this morning, begins "Dear Sandemaniac,
Do you have experience of working with children?"

Well, you have my CV, does it say anywhere on it "experience of working with children"? It doesn't?

Then the answer is no, isn't it! Grrr...

AG
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Last week my voluntary redundancy came into effect and so after a very long time in the world of IT I have the opportunity to look at different ways of working, maybe along the lines of what Charles Handy describes in The Age of Unreason as Portfolio working (several small jobs). While the dust settles I am enjoying being freed from any schedules, and looking at possibilities, and have booked onto a City & Guilds course that should enable me to teach adult education classes with an IT theme - then I will need to find centres that need tutors, which hopefully will happen so that I can balance voluntary work (some with perks like free entry to places I usually pay for) with income generation.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good luck, Daisydaisy, and enjoy your new-found freedom!
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
I've got an interview for a cracking job - it's the only cracking job I've seen in the area for a year and it ticks all the boxes. The interview is next Tuesday. I'm so nervous.
 

---

Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
Fingers crossed for cracking prospects for those looking and stellar interviews for those in the process.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Best of luck, Beenster!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I had everything crossed for you, Beenster, until I fell over because I had my legs and eyes crossed.

Good luck!

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Sandemaniac, may I suggest adding a little more tonic?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Oh dear... I resemble that remark!

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
How went the interview?
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Thank you everyone - the interview is on Tuesday so please keep everything crossed until then - sorry to hear about the falling over !!

I've pretty much decided to go off with stress next week, I'm exhausted and I cried and cried in my HR meeting today as I fail to see this state as an opportunity but rather it feels so terminal. HR said I should put myself first, when I mentioned go off with stress, I was advised not to put myself first that much.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
If your present job's making you as ill as that, then it's definitely time to look for something else.

Things still crossed ...
 

---

Posted by Starbug (# 15917) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
There is an online free course on writing CVS here if it would help anyone - for three weeks, starts 9 February.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:
If your present job's making you as ill as that, then it's definitely time to look for something else.

Things still crossed ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chive:

As it has been more than 14 years since I last looked for work I know nothing about it. My question really is at what point do I start looking for other jobs? Is it better to do it when I have a warning on my record which will, presumably, form part of any reference my current employer would provide or is it better to wait til I've lost my job and apply for work saying I had my employment terminated due to ill health and non attendance? I can't see either option making me the top of the list of people to employ unfortunately.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chive:
... an attempt to manoeuvre me out the back door by sacking me due to non attendance ...

---

If your non-attendance is due to illness, couldn't some form of "retirement* on the grounds of ill-health" be worked out?

* I have no idea how old you are (and I'm not asking) but a contemporary of mine was given early retirement in his early 30s when he developed MS and became unable to work.
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Corporate bullying is a serious problem. And so destructive as I'm finding out. There is no access to truth, goalposts are moved and so the ability to fight, reason, discuss - totally taken away from you and so one is disempowered.

And this is what happened to me. A couple of days ago, the announcement about my impending redundancy was sent out. After a month of a gagging clause surrounding me, and having asked a couple of people whether I could tell others, I did so. And they went mental at work. I was told that today would be my last day. Apparently, I wasn't meant to tell anyone. There was going to be a bigger piece of comms surrounding my redundancy. I'm psychic at times but not that good. As it happens I am on planned leave today, so i was told I can come in next MOnday to tidy things up. Oh the irony, we need you, we don't need you.

I'm in two minds whether to get signed off sick or what - I want to say goodbye to folk and leave properly and not slip out, but I will think about that over the weekend. There's a corporate counselling service, nobody's thought of giving those details to me. Outplacement support which is available - not discussed.

The patronising thing, I'm being told that this is the best thing for me. I think I decide what is best for me. Not some corporate tosser.

And I've got an interview today, been up since 4am with the stress and worry - tho I'm not sure what I'm stressed and worried about. I don't know whether to postpone the interview or what.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Beenster, that sucks more than a Hoover. I'd be more than half-tempted to say go to your interview, keeping at the back of your mind what a load of tossers your present employers are, and how much you want to escape from them, and give it your best shot!

Having said that, you're possibly not feeling at your most impressive, and it certainly wouldn't be unreasonable to ask for a postponement.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beenster:
The patronising thing, I'm being told that this is the best thing for me. I think I decide what is best for me. Not some corporate tosser.

---

Sounds familiar .
It is still utterly beyond me how any group of people can decide that the best way to help somebody with mental health issues is to force them to move house 100 miles away unexpectedly, in less than a month. And nobody suggested to me that I could file a grievance. And being too frazzled to think straight is not much of a defence legally.

Beenster
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
JoannaP that is a horrid and patronising scenario. Moving 100 miles is hugely stressful at the best of times but when it's forced on you - well it can't be.

I went to the interview. I don't know if it's the greatest job for me.

Tomorrow is the last day at work. I want to do things right - I want to keep my integrity and morality and not stoop to their levels but I will see how I am tomorrow.

I know, I'm grieving, I'm bitter and broken by the process. There are man positives that will come up but I rage against the injustice, poor handling and poor management, shifting goalposts. I will never know the truth.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Prayer for you tomorrow Beenster
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
I didn't get the job working with prostitute red nailed girl, I can't say I'm disappointed completely, I would have liked to have been offered the role but I wouldn't have flourished.

Day 2 of no work and it's doesn't feel good. My send off from work was an embarrassment, people didn't know i was going but I did get given a box of chocolates from the team along with a sainsburys voucher. The chocolates had previously been won in a raffle by the lady who gave them to me - how do I know that - well I was there when she won them. I was treated like sh*t
 

---

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :
 
That really stinks. You are well out of there, even if it does leave you with some immediate problems.

for you to find an employer who will appreciate you and treat you properly.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Seconded. What a gruesome situation to have been in.

AG
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Thank you so much guys. Yes, I feel as if I have been wronged but I will rise again. They took my job, but they can't take my soul, my spirit, my joy, my hope or anything else. I grieve for my job - how weird is that - but that will pass. I want to move on but at the moment I'm so very very tired and raw.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
That's the spirit, Beenster - don't let them win (not that they have - they've lost you as an employee, and that's their loss).

Take a week or two of rest and relaxation - if possible maybe have a wee break somewhere or a day out - and then start thinking about what you want to do next.

The same profession, but with a different employer? A change of direction? Training or re-training? You're obviously thinking positively already, so if you can see this as a door opening rather than a door closing, you'll be half-way there.

Best of luck!
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
When I lost my job almost a decade ago, I experienced the most intense grief of my life. Take the time to grieve, Beenster.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Beenster

I hope you are able to have some space to grieve before you move on. My leaving the last place T was employed was somewhat similar.

Huia
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Beenster
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
I'm seriously thinking about a different direction in my job, still educational (and even at the same place), and wrestling with it. Please pray.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Beenster, I would avoid going back to the same place like the plague. Even if it's a different part of it, anywhere that lets crap like that go on has big problems.

Meanwhile, I found this in an advert, and wonder whether it adds a whole new meaning to "job for life"...

"We offer our staff an employer contribution pension scheme, health care plan, death in service, free parking, staff discounts and 25 days holiday per annum plus bank holidays"

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Bollocks!Bollocksbollocksbollocksbollocks!

Just had a call from an agency about a job that sounded interesting - turns out that it's a company I had an interview with a few years ago, was really impressed by, and was beaten to the post only by someone with more relevant experience.

Since then they've moved from Oxford to Welwyn Garden City...

Argh!

AG
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
I'm touched and very moved by such kindnesses and people taking the time and trouble to write / post / understand / care - not least for some strange faceless person at the end of the internet.

I apologise for not responding sooner to your warmth, but I found some warmth of my own and have been sailing in the sun for a week. It was nectar for the soul. I hate the expression of living in the now but when you sail, you really do. Nothing else matters. Much. Mostly. All you care about are the basics - food, water, shelter, how to pee at 45 degree angles, staying sane and jolly when cold and wet and tired and pukey. The sun, the moon, the stars, the dolphins, the pilot whales - all wonderful glorious things that enrich my soul. No mobile signal so no chance of troubling the self with distractions.

I've come back to some promising news but we will see what emerges. But, I'm questioning deeply what I want and my confidence has returned, and my inner child has some spark!

Thank you all folks, very very much. May you be blessed in abundance for your time and trouble. Now, I need my bed but the sofa is rocking still!
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beenster:

how to pee at 45 degree angles,

---

An interesting addition to your CV?
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Beenster, you're making me feel sea-sick.

Glad you had a good, revitalising break, and may your new-found confidence increase in spades!


 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Bollocks!Bollocksbollocksbollocksbollocks!

Just had a call from an agency about a job that sounded interesting - turns out that it's a company I had an interview with a few years ago, was really impressed by, and was beaten to the post only by someone with more relevant experience.

Since then they've moved from Oxford to Welwyn Garden City...

Argh!

AG

---

Go for it! Well, that's my advice. You were well regarded a few years ago, it's not as if they tossed you out with the dishwater first rounds. The fact that someone with a better skillset for that particular role doesn't mean that you might not be the best person for this role. Dress up your conversations with the agency that you have always regarded this company well, you have hoped that the other person succeeds in the role that you applied for to demonstrate they made the right decision and the best thing for the business. All sorts of things to indicate that you would be really honoured to work for this company. As for the commute, investigate whether you might work from home one day a week - or something? Or, that they would consider you staying over once a week (company pay halves) or something? Or what about if it were to work out that you might relocate?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Sadly, it's a no-no. We're talking at least four hours a day spent commuting, 640 miles a week. It's lab-based work so no opportunity to work from home, and my partner isn't going anywhere so relocation is out.

AG
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Oh sorry to hear that, it's a real bummer.

Updates from me, one job that seemed really good - they want me to jump through hoops to get the job - assessment centre, psychometric testing, etc - I'm too old for all this nonsense and it's a small company and I'm a secretary - not a board director. I will see tho. Not burning bridges.

I've pushed back on a temp role, I'm too tired from my holiday. They may want me to start next week which would work.

The third - well I'm not so sure. I didn't like the guy at interview and so feel unsure about the direction of that, but again, I will see.

I feel like being choosy but then it's early days.

In the meanwhile, online forms sent through for unemployment benefit.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I would be extremely wary of anyone you don't like the look of at interview.

There are too many bullies and psychos out there as it is.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Wise words, Sandemaniac.

If you'd be working either for or with this bloke and you have an instant "whatever the opposite of rapport is", I'd give him a wide berth.
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
What a difference a week's holiday makes!

Before holiday, it was desperation city, clutching at straws, and - "any job will do" (to the theme "any dream will do").

Scary prostitute red nail girl offered me temp to perm job and I've stalled her and now there's an icy silence, she wanted to speak today but I said - "at the end of the week".

It's early days in the job hunting so I'm feeling choosy. Whether I feel like that in a fortnight or so I don't know.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Job interviews are a bit like a blind date.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Except you are considerably more likely to be screwed on an interview.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Y'know, looking at last night's post, I should probably avoid posting on this thread when I've been rummaging round job ads - it brings out a small country's worth of cynicism in me.

AG
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
I did laugh!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Oh good, I feel better about that - especially as poor Caissa has been on the wrong end of a couple of my outbursts!

Just looking at an ad - they want to know my current salary and salary requirements. Well, that should be a laugh as it's considerably more junior than I am now, but it's the sort of post I may have to take to make the transition into industry...

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Would it be worth it for the increased job satisfaction, especially if there are better prospects?

When D. made the transition from music teacher to full-time (but not really paid as such) Cathedral organist he took a 50% cut in his salary, and did much the same when we moved here from Northern Ireland, but it was worth it in "well-being" terms; we both agree that coming here was a very good thing.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
It's certainly a possibility, Piglet, within limits.

My concern is that I will be seen as far too expensive to take on because I'll just sod off to something better paid. The university structure, with an annual increment, makes it very hard to see at what level you fit outside, and when postdocs are being recruited at less than my current salary...

Beyond that... if I can pay the bills, it's worth considering. But not within the University. I had my pay hacked by a third and had the humiliation of having to apply for regrading, only to be regraded to a point on the next band with the same salary as the one on the band below I'd started at. If they want to do that again, they can fuck right off!

AG
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Feel somewhat embarrassed to announce that I have been offered a job - it's a small company, what I think is the location really floats my boat. It's on a small complex with a brewery (the smell of hops is intoxicating) but also a holistic centre, yoga / pilates studio / as well as local "stuff" (I live in Cumbria so local stuff is gorgeous).

I don't know how the job will pan out, I did blag in the interview, and it's technically a maternity cover. Contract for 14 months.

I'm relieved to have work, signing on today was an adventure into heavy patronisation land - omg - it was rough. They meant well, they were nice ......

Thank you to the many who have been with me in this. It's meant a lot.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beenster:
Feel somewhat embarrassed

---

Don't be! It's about time someone here had some real positive news!

That said, I may bite your arm off with jealousy... especially with a brewery next door, I'd be in there like a shot making myself known!

Good luck with it!

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Beenster -
 

---

Posted by Japes (# 5358) on :
 
Congratulations Beenster!
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Congratulations Beenster - that sounds brilliant. Maternity leave is one of those things that does change as new mothers re-plan around the new disruption in their lives.


I had six months probation meeting yesterday which was *interesting*. I've been doing what is now a steadily diminishing part of the job for nearly two years, but only on a permanent contract since October. That contract took three months to follow the interview for a permanent post and was when I finally saw a job description and had it confirmed quite how badly I'd been stitched up at the interview.

My new line manager started in November and was unaware that the July interview I had thought was for a permanent contract for my original role wasn't. It was an unpleasant experience which started with a personal attack for what I was wearing (knee-length shorts, it was a hot INSET day), so it took a while to dawn on me that I was being interviewed for an entirely different role that hadn't been advertised, without a job description (until it was written in October) and which included management aspects which I was under huge pressure to agree to but refused at interview (been there, got the t-shirt, know I'm crap at it and don't want to go there again) although I did agree to take on some additional responsibilities.

When we started back in September there was confusion about my role, shared by not just me but also my then line manager and the administrator. I was pulled out of the training session I was leading to attend a meeting of the managers. And was then singled out with a list of things I was going to do, including all the management stuff I had refused at interview.

Six months on, poor new line manager thought he was going to sign off a probation period to be told I really didn't want to come off probation because it ties me into a longer notice period and I had no intention of staying past getting the current year 11s through the exams and coursework deadlines

And having burnt my boats now I really need to start putting job applications together properly. (I have been keeping an eye out for a while)
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Remind me again why you were trying to persuade me that teaching was a good idea...

Seriously, though, that's shocking. It makes you wonder what other dark deeds are going on beneath the surface.

I have no idea what, but if you can think of anything I could do to help, you know where I am.

AG
 

---

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
I suddenly find myself joining the ranks here.
It's been a year of disasters - I was injured at work, then had an accident whilst off work, so currently am signed off with a broken shoulder. Thing is, as a result of the injury at work, the pupil who caused it has changed schools and, as I was employed directly to teach that one pupil, my job no longer exists. Seven days' notice and I find myself unemployed and still not able to use my arm fully for at least another month.

One ray of light on the horizon is that there is a job advertised at the same school and I am applying for that. Sounds like I might stand a chance, though I'm not banking on it, and it's not necessarily for a start before September so I'd have to do supply in the meantime. It's such a dilemma, though - there are other jobs I am applying for in the meantime but I don't particularly want to take a job I like less, especially in teaching where changing jobs has an impact upon the children you're working with, but then I can't guarantee that I will walk into the one I want.... and ESA payments don't even scratch the surface of my rent!

Trouble with teaching is that, while it's in generally easier to get a job when you've got a job (and certainly easier than when you've got a broken shoulder), teaching interviews are usually whole day affairs, with a part day visiting the school in advance, so to take a teaching role "for the time being" would also be rubbish because of the difficulty of cover when you were out looking for other work, and the time commitment in the evenings of writing applications when you've got lessons to plan.

I don't like this very much.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Bloody hell, Smudgie, what a situation!

I'm not sure what to say, beyond offering a virtual brew-up?

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
What Sandemaniac said - sending virtual hugs and GIN.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Yuk Smudgie - that doesn't sound good, and I have a lot of sympathy about the struggling to fill in forms around preparation.

Sandemaniac, the bit I enjoy is teaching and creating resources. I really don't enjoy quality control of other people's work and sorting out the mess they make of it, plus then pussy-footing around their feelings when I have to tell them yet again that the stuff is wrong and needs redoing.
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Millions of hugs!!

I have an interview Tuesday for the job change I was referring to. PLEASE pray for me!!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Sandemaniac, the bit I enjoy is teaching and creating resources.

---

....and I could probably handle teaching if it wasn't for the kids, the parents, the politicians, the hours...

Best of British, Chastmastr, everything is crossed for you!

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good luck CM!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Hmm, Well, six hours of career coaching later, and I'm still not sure that I'm any further on than I was before - except that the coach knows a lot more about me than they did before.

Anyone any bright ideas about how I can take my skills out of the lab and apply them to something real instead of the soul-eating pit that is research? I'd ask on the shiply scientists thread if it hadn't long since died... wonders, would the All Saints hosts tolerate another one, especially as my interest in it is jobhunting?

AG
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
... wonders, would the All Saints hosts tolerate another one, especially as my interest in it is jobhunting?

AG

---

I think so, providing it doesn't meander too much.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Thanks, Wodders, I'll put my mind to coming up with an appropriate OP.

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Are your skills transferable out of science?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I wish I knew! Apparently science gives you lots of the things - eg here, you'll have to scroll down a bit but even if I do I haven't a clue what to transfer them to.

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Usually it is helpful to do an assessment of your soft skills. For example, I have an MA in history and went ABD on my doctorate as well as having a B.Ed. With this combination of degrees I have spent the last 20 years working in university student services. I was hired and retained on the basis of my soft-skills ex. attention to detail, writing skills, oral communication skills, critical thinking etc.
These are all soft-skills that I developed in my degrees but are not exactly the content of my degrees.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Is there any way of tying them in to specific roles, or is that a case of wangling it according to the job ad? I'm kind of reaching the point where I'm thinking if I can't get a similar salary to do something close to what I am, I might just say "Fuck it!" and find something good for the soul instead. I know at least one brewer...

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
You should tie them to roles you have fulfilled before and the skills being requested in the job ads.
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
My interview went well, but I won't know anything till at least next week, so please keep praying!
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Sandemaniac, is there anyway you could build up a portfolio of different earning roles? I've begun to explore this, and while each of the items in my portfolio at the moment doesn't bring vast sums in it is beginning to add up slowly.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I'll think about an answer later, daisydaisy, as I'm about to dash, but ever get the feeling LinkedIn is taking the piss out of you? It's just suggested I congratulate one of my contacts for getting a a new job - on the checkout at Waitrose!

AG
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
Oh well, I have been rejected by both jobs I applied for but a friend with more experience of job-hunting has tweaked my CV for me. If I had some idea of what I wanted to do (beyond earn money), it would help...
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Much to my relief, I've gotten a job offer today. I still have an interview with a second company tomorrow although I will probably have to decide if I take the first job before I can finish with the second company.

Once more into the breach...
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Sandemaniac

Linked-in hasn't been very helpful. I paid for a subscription so I could track salaries and I get this incredibly annoying newsletter from them full of depressed people complaining about not finding jobs.

Would any of your lab work be helpful in a Brewery? Do they have chemists or are the small ones mostly craft based?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Several points to respond to, I'll try to take them in order...

The problem with doing lots of other things to raise money is what (see also my general career problem!)? I'm not qualified to do anything else, and I don't have hobbies that could easily be transformed into earners - gardening takes a lot more time when you have to, and perhaps I could do a bit of local/family history for people on a contract basis, but you need to be able to deliver the results, and my expertise is well behind the times, and mostly in a county that's two hours away. Maybe minimum wags sh*t shovelling...

Joanna P, you have my sympathy! I wish I could offer helpful suggestions but, as you've probably spotted, I'm in the same boat.

Bravo Palimpsest, hope one of them turns out what you want/need. I have to confess that I've not found LinkedIn hugely helpful either - it's better than it was when it was spam central, but there's so much extraneous junk on it. Plus I've yet to make a contact that's actually helped me get a job via it. I have to say that I think it's highly overrated (though closed groups can be good if you need a blart).

As for the brewing... Well, it's mostly following process, so it probably would, and I'd be far more interested in the craft side anyway than the industrial scale stuff. The biggest brewery for miles is Hook Norton, whose lab consists of broom cupboard with half a dozen bottles in. Mind you, once the clocks change I will be spending much more time in the University Club, where a local brewer hangs out - I wonder if he knows anyone who'd take me on for a few days experience? Happy to wield a shovel for a few days, and if I can do it on annual leave...

Wildly out of order, good luck to Chastmastr, and thanks, Caissa. Of course, I have to find the job to point them at first...

Incidentally, cracking example of a badly written job ad in my daily email from New Scientist jobs - the tasks and the requirements don't match up, the tautologous "highly ESSENTIAL" requirement is third on the list, it's all a mucking fuddle.

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Another online application - more guesswork. I had to fill in the exact date I became a member of a professional body - well, I know it was 1988, but that's not good enough. So I've put 1 Aug, but that's an entirely random date. I have bugger all idea when in 1988 I joined.

Online forms - I hates them. I especially hates them when they underline that I am old, and that the other people filling them in will be able to remember such details because for them it was less than 27 years ago.

Bah, humbug.

Fortunately this one only wants to know which school subjects I passed in 1980 / 1981 / 1982 - it doesn't ask for actual grades, so I'm not filling in a random assortment of As and Bs, with no clue as to accuracy. I know I got Cs in Art and Chemistry, but the rest? I know that they were all As or Bs, but which?

There's only one requirement for this job, and I haven't got it, so is there even any point in applying? I have no idea.

Bah, humbug.
 

---

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
I have a trial day at a school tomorrow.
It's a bit too far of a drive, and it's definitely a role which is out of my comfort zone - as part of the trial day I have to deliver a 20 minute lesson to eight teeny-tinies with profound and multiple learning difficulties. I don't even know whether what I have prepared is half way appropriate for them.
Needless to say, I am incredibly nervous.
I won't know whether I want it or not until I get there. It's only short term, in the first instance, and daily pay with nothing through the school holidays. But then, I can't keep turning things down just because they're not perfect when I've got the rent to pay.
Please think of me tomorrow. I need all the positive vibes and prayers I can get.
 

---

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :
 
Hope it all goes well, Smudgie!
 

---

Posted by Japes (# 5358) on :
 
Hope it goes well, Smudgie. Will be praying.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Prayers for tomorrow Smudgie. Hope it's a good thing for the time being, until something brilliant closer to home turns up.
Prayers for all other job seekers too.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
smudgie. And good luck, NEQ.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
for Smudgie - hope it goes well.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Amen to all that.
 

---

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
Best of love and many prayers for you, Smudgie. I bet all the kiddies will love you, even if just for twenty minutes. Do they have any say in the hiring process?


 

---

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
That was a short sojourn on the jobhunting thread ... though I may well be rejoining in July, depending on whether the teacher I'm covering comes back from sick leave or resigns.
I am going to need to be really disciplined with my pay seeing as it's daily pay and nothing during the holidays.
Lots of prayers and good wishes for the rest of you in your job hunting.

[ 23. March 2015, 16:26: Message edited by: Smudgie ]
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
That's good news Smudgie . It gives you a bit of time to see if ther is anything out there next term that you fancy more.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well done, Smudgie! (goes off and quietly turns green in a corner).

I had a very odd phone call at about 5.15. It was a chap from an agency that I couldn't quite make out the name of*, and was trying to find someone to fill a Stores Manager position... but it couldn't be someone from Well Known Dark Blue University! So why ask me, who still works for WKDBU? Why find me - turns out he was trying things with Google, I'd got manager and stores on my CV, and it turns out to be a company specialising in property management roles.

Hmm, do I bother answering his connection request on LinkedIn, I wonder? Still, I suppose it does prove that someone occasionally finds my CV online...

AG


*luckily I didn't ask the chap's surname - he may well be of Nigerian descent, so I'd never have been able to spell it.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
*Beware - inchoate sweary rant*

Having spent some time trundling round the job ads (and indulging in displacement activities) this evening, once again I really do wonder why the fuck I bother. There's a few more-of-the-same jobs in the university, a few jobs outside that seem to want people with one or two years experience (at least five of which must be industry), and absolutely fuck all in between. I guess I have to wave my CV at a few to see if I can get any bites, but the frustration of even trying to work out what is worthwhile trying for just does my head in.

To rub it in, the Knotweed's sister-in-law finished one job on Friday and started another today, having had three offers.

Oh, and there's the entirely bizarre approach related above.

How the fuck do I break the ever-decreasing circle?

AG
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
As I've said elsewhere, I've found a new job starting in May. Thank your for your prayers and support.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Smudgie and LeRoc - congratulations!

Sandemaniac - continuing.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Congratulations Smudgie - that's brilliant news. What about marking over the summer to bridge the gap a bit? The exam boards are advertising now (I keep getting the adverts sent to me). (And ticket offers are still open if you're available.)

Sandemaniac, one of the PhD's I knew at uni went on to an assistant brewer role at one of the small but well known breweries in Henley, but I can't find him doing a search. His PhD was in fungi - always had a good supply of mushrooms. (I can't find him, but I can find that he married his girlfriend, who was on my course, and his eldest daughter went on to study Chemistry at the same uni ...).
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Sandemaniac, one of the PhD's I knew at uni went on to an assistant brewer role at one of the small but well known breweries in Henley, but I can't find him doing a search.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
... Wish me luck, I need it...

---

(Sorry for shouting, but):

GOOD LUCK SANDEMANIAC!
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Good luck, Sandemaniac!
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Good good luck!!
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Good luck, Sandemaniac
 

---

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Good luck, Sandemaniac..... we're behind you all the way.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
If only to get me off this thread, and stop me making the place so messy!

No, really, I do appreciate the wishes. Thank you all.

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Hope it goes well.
 

---

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :
 
Didn't get a job for which I was I terviewed. I realise I am in the fortunate position of having one already, but I'd like a change...of location if not of actual job.
I suspect it is ian inbuilt character flaw that keeps stuffing me. Sod.
 

---

Posted by geroff (# 3882) on :
 
Now that Rosa Galica Officianalis has been appointed Vicar it is my turn to look for a job.
I am an architectural technician and I have been with my current employer for 22 years, and I need a change. I have CVs out to everyone within 20 miles of Welshpool (near where we will be) and I have managed to secure an informal chat with a Landscape Practice who use Vectorworks (my favoured type of CAD) next Monday. So thoughts and/or prayers would be gratefully received.
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
I start a new job Monday!
After bouncing around for a few months, I had a set of interviews with a very small nice company. After that, I went to an open house for a rapidly growing company that had taken my resume and not gotten back to me twice. I got a job offer from the small company the day before the phone interview for the large company and had to tell them that I wouldn't be able to wait around for weeks as I had in the past.

As a friend said, once they know another girl is interested they all want you. The recruiter emailed me on Monday, I did a 6 hour interview loop Tuesday, they told me they'd make an offer Wednesday and I got it Thursday. It has some rich and famous contract bonuses (fine print:if the stock continues to do well)

So I took the large company offer for crass cash reasons. I did reject the other company very nicely, so I might be about to go back there. Now I have to once more face the stress of the daily grind. It's a lot harder with a bad hip. But we shall see. If nothing else, my post count here should diminish.

Good look to all the others here who are plugging away at it!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well done, Palimpsest! About time we had some good news around here!

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Congratulations Palimpsest, and all the best.
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
I hope it's the first of several good announcements here. Keep plugging at it.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Congratulations Palimpsest - good to hear you've done so well.
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
I have decided that I do know what I want to do; I want to be a freelance proofreader. I would prefer to have a bit of capital behind me for starting up but I am where I am.

So, a couple of questions for UK shipmates: does anyone have experience of New Enterprise Allowance? Specifically, if one has a loan, how closely do they monitor what you spend the money on?

I would really like advice on the pros and cons of setting up a new business as opposed to MrP's IT consultancy gaining a proofreading division and me becoming his employee but I have no idea where to go for impartial advice on this. Any ideas?
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
Last summer I applied for a job advertised through an agency, which had a similar job title to my current job but wasn't quite the same, and which I applied to purely for the £10K pay boost. I never heard back from them, but on Monday I got a call from a recruitment agent saying he'd found my CV and would I be interested in a role they had available. I now have a job interview next week...

I'm not sure that the job is one I'd have applied for myself, although it does sound interesting - the skill set is similar to mine, whilst not identical. But my current job is sapping my will to live, and has been for a good couple of years. I go into the building filled with good intentions of achieving things and the gloom descends and I just can't do it. The opportunity of something completely different, which came to me rather than the desperate filling in of application forms, seems too good to be true.

Also, now I need to work out what on earth to wear to a job interview at an architectural firm!
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Make sure you have a solid foundation.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scots lass:
... I need to work out what on earth to wear to a job interview at an architectural firm!

---

Frivolous Piglet would say hard hat, high-vis. jacket and steel-toed boots.

Sensible Piglet, on the other hand, would say something smart but comfortable and somewhat understated. Black trouser-suit or similar.

Good luck - I bet it'll be an interesting job!

PS It probably wouldn't hurt to arrive in a Saab ...

[ 16. April 2015, 15:29: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scots lass:
... I need to work out what on earth to wear to a job interview at an architectural firm!

---

Frivolous Piglet would say hard hat, high-vis. jacket and steel-toed boots.

Sensible Piglet, on the other hand, would say something smart but comfortable and somewhat understated. Black trouser-suit or similar.

Good luck - I bet it'll be an interesting job!

PS It probably wouldn't hurt to arrive in a Saab ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:
... It probably wouldn't hurt to arrive in a Saab ...

---

Ah, someone else who saw that edition of Top Gear!

---

My cover's been blown ...

TG is repeated on BBC Canada more often than it is on Dave, so I've probably seen it several times.

[ 17. April 2015, 02:02: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Good luck, Scots lass!

AG
 

---

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scots lass:
Also, now I need to work out what on earth to wear to a job interview at an architectural firm!

---

quote:

---

Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
If you were male, I would suggest wearing a tie printed with elegant impressions of buildings by Mies van der Rohe, Frank Lloyd Wright or Norman Foster.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
If you were male, I would suggest wearing a tie printed with elegant impressions of buildings by Mies van der Rohe, Frank Lloyd Wright or Norman Foster.

---

But as you're not, have you any jewellery inspired by either Lloyd Wright or (being Scottish) Charles Rennie Mackintosh?


 

---

Posted by geroff (# 3882) on :
 
Have a look at their website - there's usually a picture of them all gathered around a computer/drawing board/table football machine (depending on the age of the directors). I tend to be wary of those where they have matching black polo necks or collarless Italian shirts.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Just avoiding the doom of broom...

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, I've just taken my first trip of the day to the hospital* to discuss retraining with some people in the know. I have to say that Clinical Biochemistry is not looking like a good idea at the mo as it appears to mostly involve feeding machines, but I have a further trip in a couple of weeks time to discuss with someone involved in the training process, plus the current trainees, so we shall see. I've also contacted someone in another field, hopefully I'll hear back once they are in work next week.

Not sure that anything is happening yet, but at least I have something I can DO about it.

AG

*No, I'm not that unhealthy, I'm giving blood at 4.30!
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Nothing much changes for me. Still want new job, still want it nearer home (15 miles is the current commute, takes an hour on the bike, and having two cars is not a lifestyle choice I'd be comfortable with)

Difficult sod, me.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
If it's any help, Karl, I feel better for knowing I'm not the only DS about!

AG
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
4 years off work.....tentative steps back via an agency.....then this week just had a firm declaration of interest in me.

Days and hours agreeable to me + a blissful one hour tram commute each way.

It feels like heaven: just may say yes

 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Go for it, EA, and best of luck!
 

---

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :
 
So I'm not sure if this is the thread for what I'm posting, but here goes . . .

I have been working for lo these many years with a NFP agency which assists people with significant disabilities, toward which end I acquired a graduate degree in human services (IOW, a good-for-damn-little degree).

Some time back, I spent a couple of semesters teaching part-time at a community college for extra money.

A little less time back, I was attacked at work by a client (not one of mine), suffered some fairly severe injuries, spent a long, bumpy recovery, and so on. But I'm finding myself less engaged in my work than I used to be. And budget cuts, always a looming nightmare in my field, loom again.

Between the scars, the trauma, and the prospect of cutting staff hours or firing long-term employees, taking a paycut myself, and/or facing possible job loss for perhaps the sixth time in the last six years, I am considering jumping ship.

I'm thinking of going back to that community college and taking on adjunct teaching in hope of eventually landing a position in the only department where my degree would be of any use.

Any advice?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I'd see if you can find anyone who has done that to see how they've got on, and what pitfalls they met - it sounds as though you have to leave whatever, but I'd try to get a bit of info before you jump.

Ethne Alba... well, I'm jealous for one. Have a green grin!

AG
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Advice--1) I wouldn't lose the day job in favor of college teaching unless I had a firm full-time offer (e.g. not adjunct). There are tons of people (like me) working as adjuncts for peanuts, and most of us will never see a fulltime position. So make sure you have sufficient income somehow before pinning all your hopes to that. You'll doubtless know already how much an adjunct makes at the school you're thinking of.

That said, you can network like crazy and especially if you're mobile, you might find a fulltime position with that degree (unlike me, with common-as-dirt English). I'm sorry to be so negative--it's just that I had hopes this way too some years ago, before I realized...
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
Thanks all; it's been a while.....
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Advice needed - last month I saw a museum job advertised which sounded ideal; it involved creating displays, handling artefacts, helping members of the public interpret exhibitions etc. The pay was low, but my commuting costs would have been negligible, which was a big plus. However, when it came to the qualifications required, it wasn't even a graduate position; from the qualifications required it seemed to be a receptionist position.

I've just seen another part-time job, which again sounds perfect from the job description. Much better pay, but an expensive and lengthy commute. But again, it's not a graduate post, so clearly what I'm reading into the job description and what the job actually is, are two different things. I'm not going to apply.

Is there any point in applying for a non-graduate post when I have a PhD? Would it give me a toe-hold into e.g. graduate museum work?
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Yes, it would get you some experience.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I have got the impression that having done almost anything beforehand in a museum is helpful, possibly demonstrating your commitment to the sector(ugh - bizspeak!)? - can you afford to do it?

Meanwhile, I'm talking to people about NHS and associated roles. I have to say that thus far it's not looking very hopeful - it's all looking like at least a couple of years on 2/3rds of my current salary (in terms of seniority, the equivalent of where I started in the university in 1999) just to get started. And, if I'm really lucky, after a couple of years I might get promoted towards something more management-related - whoopeedoopoo!. Or there's some roles coming up in Milton Keynes "only an hour's drive away" (petrol costs on top of the pay cut).

Should've bought a house ten years ago... Should have worked put what I wanted to do twenty years ago. It's gut-wrenchingly frustrating, I know plenty I don't want to do, but not what I do.

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Since I posted this:

quote:

---

Since submitting my thesis, I've had several requests to do voluntary interesting stuff. A couple of these have come with the comment "this will look good on your CV."

Nobody has offered to pay me to do paid interesting stuff.

---

quote:

---

Yes, it would get you some experience.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caissa:
It is easier to get work when you have work ...

---

That's very true; apart from anything else, it means that you can offer a current employer as a referee for anything you're applying for in the future.

As someone who's on the "receptionist" end of the qualification and employment spectrum, there's part of me that thinks, "what chance is there for someone like me if people with PhDs are applying for clerical jobs?", but if you really think you'd enjoy the work and can live with the salary, there's no reason you shouldn't go for it.

Obviously, if I lived in NEQshire and were applying for the same post, I'd be quite justified in wishing a plague upon you ...
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Indeed. There was never any danger of me working for the arsehole who turned abusive mid-interview.

As for being easier to find work when you are in work... dear gods, if I ever lose my job I will just cut my wrists, it will be so much quicker, easier, and considerably less painful!

I have to say, NEQ, that it sounds as though you have plenty of stuff to be able to say "I've done all this, look at my commitment". It's just (?) a question of waiting for the right job to apply for.

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Technically, I have jobs at the moment. But my main job title is attached to an unpaid position, and the rest are all ad-hoc (such as this week's invigilating.)
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Piglet, you have little to fear from PhDs applying for receptionist jobs; they won't even consider us. As in, "won't give you an interview." I don't know if the reasoning is that a PhD will soon be off to greener pastures (as if there were any) or if it's the more negative "s/he must be seriously deficient in some way not to have found work in his/her proper field already," but whatever it is, employers won't give us the time of day once they spot the degree.

Except for the vanishingly rare employer who has a megalomaniacal entitlement attitude, which in my experience means nonprofits.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and the next thing to try is a Medical Technical Officer in the transplant unit (which, while the extras look erm hairy (on call, potential need to travel by road air or sea, and for not a great deal of dosh (it's that M word again), looks interesting, real (as opposed to paper-generating, and worthwhile. We shall see tomorrow when I visit...

AG
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
This year's drought has been broken by a 6 week contract doing some project management and herding cats in the state office of my denomination.

Today I have an interview for a real job. It's a preliminary with the Head of HR rather than a hiring manager, but it's a good sign.

mr curly
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caissa:
It is easier to get work when you have work. Being granted an interview and offered a job does not mean one has to accept the offer. The interview process often gleans a better idea of the true nature of the position.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
... the reasoning is that a PhD will soon be off to greener pastures ...

---

Fair point, LC. Part of the reason my boss wanted me rather than a post-grad student was (a) I don't think that photocopying and getting the tea are beneath me; and (b) the student would get their MSc/PhD and then bugger off.

Sandemaniac and Mr. Curly, best of luck!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Hmmm. Stay where I am with no prospects of progression (or of survival of sanity) or take a post that will take 25% off my salary (again...), with very limited prospects of progression.

Joy.

AG
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Interview was OK but I didn't get the vibe that it would lead to anything. That in the middle of another day of observing large scale stupidity on my current project, and it wasn't a good day.

mr curly
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, I have just been told that the 2ii I got twenty two years ago is likely to be a big disadvantage if I apply to train into the NHS.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ON A FUCKING BICYCLE WEPT!

Thank God for the allotment is all I can say.

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
2ii?
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Second class honours degree - 2:2 degree (or a Desmond), Degrees here come as 1st, 2:1, 2:2, 3rd, (that lot can all be honours degrees), pass and fail.

These days a lot of post graduate occupations demand a 1st or 2:1 - including teacher training, except for science or maths, which will take 2:2s.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
It's the utter ignorance of everything I have learnt and done in the intervening 22 years - more than half my life, and my entire career thus far, I should point out - that I find so depressing.

Maybe I should just fuck trying to care about what I do, fuck trying to care about people, fuck trying to do anything useful to humanity, and just grow cabbages instead? Tonight's was a cracker, first spring cabbage of the year, and at least as satisfying as 95% of what I've done over the last 22 years.

Gonna need a bigger allotment...

AG

[ 13. May 2015, 21:01: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
I was told if you had a 2ii and wanted to get into postgrad training you could compete with those with a 2i or 1st by doing an MSc.

You can do cross credit stuff with the OU, which will sometimes credit relevant experience.

[ 13. May 2015, 21:09: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
Sorry, misinformation, googled - OU won't credit studies over 16 yrs ago anyway (and only what looks like credit from modules from partially completed courses).
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Sandemaniac, I can't even begin to imagine the frustration of this. Although I am deeply envious of your allotment success.

Strange turns are emerging for me.... my plan has been to have the summer off and look for part time freelance IT work over the winter. But on Monday I was invited to look at an admin/reception post at a nearby care home that is opening later this summer - it looks like I would be a good fit for it, and it could be part time. It's not what I had planned, but it would be so good from so many angles - one is that I could walk to work for the first time ever, another is that it should be far less stressful than what I would otherwise be looking for, they don't expect anyone to start until the autumn, and it would still give me time for the allotment! I've already lined up a meeting with the manager on Saturday at their recruitment fair to discuss this role and also having a Messy Church there. Interesting times.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
These days a 2:1 (2i) won't necessarily cut it for research without additional relevant experience. (My daughter has a 2:1 MEng and couldn't get funding for a PhD until after she'd worked in industry for a few years.)

The SLT* role I am currently doing by default, alongside the tutor and exams officer roles, has been advertised as a full time job at a good £15k above what I'm getting, which was pretty much what I expected. I am under pressure to stay on should this role be filled, although that doesn't sound that likely at the moment; apparently only 2 people have been shortlisted. Any advice on ways of removing the "mug" or "masochist" stamped on my forehead?

There really are moments when I have the thought of "above my pay scale" running through my head, as when I drew the short straw of leading the staff morning briefing (again) yesterday following an incident the day before. Then had go through it again with the volatile students when the new procedures had to be enforced. Which meant a lot of abuse from one of the students before I went off to deal with my own. (The ones I pre-emptively dealt with were more amused than annoyed, thank goodness.)

Fortunately the tutors were grateful, and even more so when I came back clutching pastries. But I missed Guides last night round dealing with that lot and the report that needed rewriting for the meeting today. (The quality assurance bit of my role that I so didn't want.)

*SLT - Senior Leadership Team
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
These days a 2:1 (2i) won't necessarily cut it for research without additional relevant experience. (My daughter has a 2:1 MEng and couldn't get funding for a PhD until after she'd worked in industry for a few years.)

---

Obviously eighteen of them just doesn't cut it.

AG
 

---

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :
 
The NHS seems to be largely uninterested in experience that comes from outside the NHS. This is so stupid it makes me - they are not interested in using expertise from other areas to improve their own performance.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Frankly, fuck 'em.

AG
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
I'm back in clinical practice after my postdoc finished - disappointed that academia turned out to not really be for me (I'm not driven enough), but I'm not really enjoying what I'm doing now either. Someone recently asked me what I want to be when I grow up, and all I could think to reply was 'retired'! Just need to figure out what to do between now and then.

I've worked out if I stay in my current post till the end of the year I will have worked enough hours to reregister both this year and in 3 years time, so I figure 10 months of work for 6 years worth of registration is worth it, and there are other good things about the job - colleagues, occasional thanks, convenient location and hours, amongst others. But in a few months, towards the end of the year, I will be starting to look for something else, probably in public health/health education, where hopefully there will be a bit of scope to use my research skills without the high pressure of academia. I will stay on the local nurse bank so I can carry on doing some clinical work, but without the pressure that being a permanent staff member entails.

Hmm, rereading that last paragraph it sounds like my main criteria for work is minimal pressure. All of a sudden, full-time allotmenteer sounds quite attractive! I'm too part-time an allotmenteer currently for the allotment to be a complete haven (the bloody weeds are certainly not part-time), but I agree that there is no feeling quite like harvesting your own food (and no taste quite like eating it).
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
... it sounds like my main criteria for work is minimal pressure ...

---

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me - pressure isn't all it's cracked up to be.
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Having attended a recruitment fair for the new care home opening close by, I have just completed my first job application form in around 17 years. That was hard work! Can I remember the dates of all my previous employers? Will the people I am applying to actually be interested in all my IT experience when this is a totally new area?

Still, I've done my side of it, including 2 interesting (yes, really) questionnaires, one of which hopefully shows how dementia aware I am, and the other looks like they think it'll show them how emotionally intelligent ( so trendy with recruitment), organised, flexible, etc etc I am - as long as I was honest with my answers

Now to pop it in the post before the waiting begins.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Good luck, daisydaisy!

Well, as a result of one thing and another I now know what MBTI type I am (and really ought to look at some of the other types as well. The profile matches me very well, so I ought to check the others and see how cynical I should be). Quite whether that is going to help or not remains to be seen as a bit of a google tells me that (amongst other things, obviously) I'd make a good scientist...

We shall see...

AG
 

---

Posted by Hazey*Jane (# 8754) on :
 
INTJ by any chance?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Close - ISTJ.

AG
 

---

Posted by Hazey*Jane (# 8754) on :
 
Yeah, there are a lot of I(S/N)TJs in science/academia. Not sure if that proves anything. It's probably worth having a look at types that you are not, as it can be an eye opener to why other people do things the way they do.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Ho hum.

Another failure to get an interview outside the university pale and I only found out as I know someone there. It's not even playing a numbers game because there's so little out there that seems worth a go at.

Buggeringfucktwats!

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Agghh - son who had a (temp) post he was enjoying has just found out the contract is being cut short due to re-organisation. I'd hoped this would be hte job where after having had his contract renewed he could then look round for a job he really wanted at his leisure.
As he's dyslexic and I'm a librarian I help with preliminary job searching, cover letter tweaking etc.
Most of the job nowdays seems to be in agency recruiting other people to jobs.......
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Heard today that the selection process for the job I applied for begins in July or August. This will be a loooong wait.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Oh FFS, that's taking the piss!

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Actually that's probably an over-reaction, but nonetheless it must be very aggravating.

I once got a job with a company who (through a series of cock-ups and just plain didn't do anythings) took six months from interview to start date. Then got upset when I handed in my notice first thing on my start date and took another contract elsewhere. They'd utterly lost my confidence.

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I had an interview yesterday! It's only for a relief position, so not a job as such, but might be an "in" to a proper job. They were interviewing 15 people for 2 relief posts, so I'm not getting my hopes up, but the interview felt positive.

But - a question. The day before the interview I went to the hairdresser for a wash /cut/ blow dry, so I looked presentable but I'm wondering if I need to do more - my hair is its natural colour (light brown), with some grey coming through. I'd say 85% natural, 15% grey. Is going grey an issue? Do I need to start colouring it to get rid of the greys?
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
I hope not because mine is 99% white. I think it's the overall impression that matters - are you smart and professional looking, regardless of whether your hair is brown, salt & pepper, white or pink.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by daisydaisy:
I hope not because mine is 99% white. I think it's the overall impression that matters - are you smart and professional looking, regardless of whether your hair is brown, salt & pepper, white or pink.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:

---

Originally posted by daisydaisy:
I hope not because mine is 99% white. I think it's the overall impression that matters - are you smart and professional looking, regardless of whether your hair is brown, salt & pepper, white or pink.

---

Bugger that. The number of times I've been taken for a ride (or someone's tried to take me for a ride) and they've been smart and professional looking... I really don't know why so much stock is placed in it, really I don't. Makes no sense to me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by daisydaisy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:

---

Originally posted by daisydaisy:
I hope not because mine is 99% white. I think it's the overall impression that matters - are you smart and professional looking, regardless of whether your hair is brown, salt & pepper, white or pink.

---

Bugger that. The number of times I've been taken for a ride (or someone's tried to take me for a ride) and they've been smart and professional looking... I really don't know why so much stock is placed in it, really I don't. Makes no sense to me.

---

Maybe this demonstrates that first impressions really do matter. I was once on an interview panel where we saw someone who was in scruffy jeans and a holey t shirt, obviously in need of a wash. Turned out that he'd flown in especially for the interview and the flight was so delayed that he'd rushed straight from the airport with no time to collect his luggage or get something new to wear (story verified to be true) - it took a lot of vision to see that this technically capable and sociable man should be taken on, and most people on the panel couldn't get past this first impression so the company lost out.

---

Oh, they matter. They shouldn't. I'm not currently in a very obliging mood

It does irk me, though, that people entrusted with this sort of recruitment (and other) responsibility are so shallow as to be unable to see past initial appearances, especially when the circumstances are made clear. What are they thinking?
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I think I'm smart - yesterday I wore a black and white striped dress, black jacket, black tights, black court shoes. The shoes are ancient, but rarely worn, as they're primarily my "funeral" shoes. I gave them a quick buff up in advance.

I don't dress as smartly as I did when I was working as a solicitor. The firm I worked for then had a strict dress code, which required not only looking smart, but expensively smart - Jaeger blouses sort of thing. I've outgrown all those clothes, and they all had power-dressing shoulder pads, so even if they fitted they'd look ridiculous now.

I just wonder if I should be aiming to look ... I don't know... younger? More polished? Stud earrings were de rigeur when I was working as a solicitor, but I stopped wearing earrings twenty years ago.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
When I am on hiring committees, I am constantly reevaluating my impression throughout the session. That said, my first impression of a candidate has usually borne out.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I've always made a point of wearing something in which I feel smart, but reasonably comfortable, for job interviews. For a few years in the late 1980s I had a black pinafore and white shirt combo which I regarded as my "lucky interview outfit".

It saw me through the interviews for my last job in Orkney (which I had for about 18 months) and my first two in Belfast (the first for a temping job, and the second for a permanent one in the same place).

As for haircuts/colouring, I do that roughly every 2 months; if it was becoming due, I'd probably bring the appointment forward if I had an interview in the offing.

I know that looks shouldn't matter, but I think it's worth putting in a bit of effort to make a good impression. I'm never going to be elegant (my body shape is more towards the "cuddly" end of the spectrum), but I like to look as if I've tried ...
 

---

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
The advice I got years ago was, "Dress in whatever would be considered proper work attire, and then make it just slightly more dressy."

i once asked a friend of mine who worked crew at a public access TV station what she wore to her interview-- she was given to wearng denim and leather. She said she'd worn black denim jeans, a smart leather jacket, and well polished work boots-- basically looking like she was ready to dive into the job, only spiffed up.

It occurs to me that is a very blue collar story, but I imagine the same applies for office work--dress like you are ready to start work that day, but as it happens the day you start work is the day they are taking badge photos.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Oh joy. I've just been told I have six months money left for my contract. Much as I loathe it, it pays the bills.

Will we ever get a house?

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
I'm sorry to hear that Sandimaniac. What is it with science jobs and short term contracts? Is it just the way the whole of work is going nowadays or is it peculiar to the sector?
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I worked in the Local Authority sector most of my career and towards the end it was definitely heading down the short-term contract road and is even further down that road now.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I don't know how it fits with other sectors as I've never worked in them, but the entire science system is based around short-term funding, maybe five years at most (and I've been on contracts as short as three months), so a huge amount of time and ink is spent on applying for funding from grant bodies.

Frankly, it's a disaster area - stuff like Perutz's work on myoglobin, which sowed the seeds of modern structural biology, would never be allowed to happen these days if you couldn't get a result within three (or five) years, as first on the scene it took Perutz the best part of twenty.

I s'pose at least I have six months, but it took 22 the last time, and I ended up in a job that has crushed my soul.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Very true, Sandemaniac - my job and those of all my colleagues are dependent on the vast amount of ink expended on grant applications. My first contract was for two years, extended by another, then several three- and six-month ones, and (hurrah!) my current one is until the end of 2016, for which I'm immeasurably grateful.

Although I'm at the clerical end of the team, what my boss and my colleagues do is life-saving stuff*, a fact that D. is always very proud to point out if he's telling anyone about what I do.

* as is a huge part of scientific research
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and we're currently trying to get Celtic Knotweed into one as well. If I didn't hate it so much, it's be the perfect safe career option...

AG
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Ho hum (and sorry Sandemaniac) having been pretty useless at doing any job hunting, mostly because I've been so manically busy at work and half term, when I was supposed to be catching up, I collapsed in a weepy heap when I got home from Guide Camp (wasn't kidding about burning out fast), I was offered a job yesterday. I am not sure I want it, but it does feel as if it's worth applying for other things.
 

---

Posted by Celtic Knotweed (# 13008) on :
 
((Curiosity killed ... )) I know that feeling of collapsing as soon as you're not in the workplace.

As Sandemaniac mentioned, I've just been putting an application together. Despite being fortunate enough to have a permanent contract where I am, I need to get out of there. On the good side, my sis-in-law has been helping with the application, and reminded me that I can do stuff! Now I have to wait and see if they like what I wrote. *twiddles thumbs impatiently*
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck with the application CK.
Son has a telephone interview tomorrow for a job, that on paper, looks a bit of a stretch for him. However I've seen enough job descriptions in my time to catch a whiff of 'bigging up' the actual work involved. It would do his confidence no end of good to get through to a face to face interview.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Thanks Sarasa. I hope the son's telephone interview went well.
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Had another interview today. With the hiring manager and her boss. Nothing about the job was different to what was implied in the job desc. It's in a new department so they can shape jobs a bit to suit. So it might still be a good match.

Feeling quite good about it. Current contract finishes in 2 weeks.

mr curly
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Son's telephone interview didn't go well, he finds it very difficult to answer questions about wishy-washy concepts such as 'motivation'. Also the job wasn't a lab role but one checking other people's work, not a good fit for a dyslexic. There is a sniff of something that sounds better on the horizon, so fingers crossed.
Hope other people's applications, interviews etc go well, and that you hear positive news about your interview Mr Curly.
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
I got nothing from the interview a few weeks back - not even any feedback (and I have asked). What's bothering me at the moment is the lack of jobs to apply for! I'm not looking to move up so much as across, a similar (less soul-destroying) job in a different bit of the sector ideally so I can broaden my experience a bit. There's just nothing coming up.

I've now been an archivist for 10 years and I don't really know what else I could do, or even if I really want to do something else. If I was in a different job I think I'd go back to loving it, but I think I'm going to have to work out a way of quietly killing off people who have good jobs in order to stir up the job market a bit...
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
You're not the first person to think of the Kind Hearts and Coronets approach and, sadly, I doubt you're the last either.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

I shot an arrow in the air
She fell to earth in Berkeley Square

---

 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Interesting...

Now I know what and when the task at hand is (getting the fuck out within six months), I feel quite empowered. I wonder how long that will last until I reach the wall-banging stage again?

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Long may your empowerment last, Sandemaniac - whatever opportunity comes your way, go for it!
 

---

Posted by Celtic Knotweed (# 13008) on :
 
Ho hum, didn't get short-listed. Feedback on the application has been requested. Next step, check the job sites again...
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Likewise (he says from about six feet behind the Knotweed). Finally, ten working days after I was told there was no money, admin have been in touch and told me they may have misinformed me... It's not necessarily a redundancy issue (though frankly my ideal situation is to find something externally in January, so I can screw the bastards for 16 years worth of redundancy) after all. Thanks, love. So I've sent a somewhat sarcastic reply pointing out that while they've been incommunicado I've been applying for jobs (nearly true). I realise that it's bad form to wind up the staff who do stuff for you, but I have absolutely no confidence in this lot whatsoever.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and the first real application has gone off. Judging by the other applications I've sent there it will disappear without trace, which is particularly frustrating as it's somewhere that I keep getting told is a great place to work, always expanding and recruiting, blahdeblahdeblahblahblah.

I fear they are looking for people with considerably fewer miles on the clock...

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Son has an interview tomorrow for a job that sounds a really good fit for him. I really hope he manages to land it, because if it is all it is cracked up to be it could be the start of a proper career.
The telephone interview last week apparently went better that he thought, but he told the recruiter he didn't think ti was for him. However there might be more lab based roles coming up so another bit of goodish news for him.
Good luck to everyone putting in applications at the moment. I'm so glad it's something I'm unlikly ever to ahev to do again!
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Best of luck to him, Sarasa, and to all in the application process.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Hope that your son gets this interview Sarasa
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarasa:
Hope other people's applications, interviews etc go well, and that you hear positive news about your interview Mr Curly.

---

Not expecting to hear anything until next week, but on another good note, a recruitment person got back to me today saying that a resume that I sent in a few weeks ago (which I'd forgotten about) had hit the spot with someone and I'll get an interview next week. A bit of a surprise given what I now about the company, but I'm happy to find out more!

mr curly
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Very best of luck to Sarasa's son and to Mr Curly for their respective interviews. We need some good news here!

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
LinkedIn's current suggestions for jobs which might suit me:

Offshore electrical technician
Offshore adhoc rigger
Offshore pipefitter
Welder


Apart from location (North East Scotland; didn't think I needed to specify the dry land bit of it) in what way do those match my criteria of jobs in the heritage / education / arts / non profits sectors?
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I presume those industries amke a healthy profit.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well now there's a surprise!

Glassdoor (can anyone explain, please, why people recommend this, apart from the ability to leave reviews?) this morning offered me, as a job similar to Associate Scientist, Painter. Paint and whites included, mind, none of this BYO Dulux rubbish, but the relevance to science utterly escapes me.

AG

*No, I don't know what one of those is either. Arsedoor chose that title itself.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Bugger. You'll have to imagine that there's an asterisk at the end of Associate Scientist.

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
So the latest annoying online job application asks me to list my ten most recent employments. That takes me back to work I did when the kids were small - school lunch supervisor / playground supervisor. I should include these, right? If I miss them out, then ten jobs ago takes me back to working as a solicitor, which sounds better, but leaves a gap. Also, it asks for the ten most recent, not the ten best-sounding.

I'd be far better off if I could just apply in writing with a CV. Online forms seem designed for people in their twenties or thirties with straightforward experience.

Meh.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I get around some of those forms by clustering things - so child support jobs around children when they were small, including school governor/ school dinner lady and etc with dates embedded in the text box, rather than a whole heading. Making sure I list anything useful from the relevant ones. (I have another 18 months like that to deal with when child was sick in her teenage years.)

Also spells of temping, I don't list every job, but that I temped for that year or eighteen months.

(That nearly came in as "tempting" not "temping" but I spotted it).
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I can, and do, cluster things on my written CV, but this is an online application form with hundreds of boxes to complete, and no way that I can see of presenting information in anything other than a linear form.


 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Yes, same sort of thing with those forms. Where it says employer, address and dates, put "Various volunteering roles", rough location and dates, then pad that out in the descriptive bit where it's available, if not in the personal statement. So long as you put something approximating the right answer in the box the computerised form doesn't recognise it's not quite right.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, I'm going to do my damnedest to utterly ignore jobhunting for a few days, as I'm off to the country of the Culicoides for a holiday.

Assuming that our administrator has actually got her arse in gear, I might know where I stand by then (I was told on the first of the month about my funding, it is now the 22nd and I have heard nothing meaningful despite several reminders). I have to say, though, that I fully expect her to have continued to be useless and if that is the case I shall throw myself upon the mercy of the HR staff in this building and get at least some of the information I need from them.

Maybe I should become a Departmental Administrator? I can obviously get away with being utterly useless, so I could just read the Ship for eight hours, and go home and do something meaningful.

AG
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
An interesting job has come up, with a frankly bonkers application process. I emailed the agent for the details. She responded asking for my CV before I could have them. I considered saying how ridiculous that was, but sent my CV to her. If I decide to apply, CVs are forwarded to the organisation, who decide who gets interviewed. There is then a Skype interview with the agent, who decides if candidates should go to stage 2 and asks them to write a covering letter. Those then go to the institution, who decide if they would like to interview.

It's just as well the job has the potential to be really interesting (and is Not My Current Job, which is a major motivating factor) or I really wouldn't have bothered. The description didn't even say if it was permanent or contract, but when I got the answer to that one (permanent), I decided to apply. So we'll see how that goes I suppose.
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Interview last Monday is not going to lead anywhere - they're looking for someone different to me. Same recruiter got all excited and sent me another job description on Thursday, but it not a good match for the same reason. I guess she'll get with the program soon.

Other possibility still bubbling, will be contract initially if it comes off.

mr curly
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
I've just had a phone call inviting me to an interview next Tues morning for an admin/reception role at the new care home near me - as well as reading the application form where I could only list job titles and salaries they must have read my CV which showed why I think I am a good fit. It's a loooong time since I had an interview so I hope I don't trip over my words too much!
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Hope all goes really well, Daisydaisy. That's exciting for you. Working close would be good.

[ 30. June 2015, 10:19: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Hey,

I lurk quite often on this thread but never post.. however, I have a very challenging assessment day next Thu. Lots of people have helped me prepare (am truly amazed and grateful for this) but am under huge pressure at the moment. Getting this job would change my life but it is extremely unlikely, so am finding this balancing act between hope and realism hard to master.

My current work situation is unsustainable but have had no luck with other options so far - if I could do my best w/out interference form the back dog, I would be satisfied.. please send any spare prayers my way and if you have any advice re: group discussions etc, that would be great too!

Lia
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
My advice for any interview is to determine beforehand the information you want the interviewers to know about you. Use the questions they ask as opportunities to get your message across.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good luck DD and Lia.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
After two weeks of waiting son has just been told he didn't get the job he thought was a good fit, this was despite initial feedback being positive. The reason given was that they didn't think he'd stay long. The recruiter is trying to find out more. In the meantime he went for another interview today,which he didn't think went that well, and has another next week. So basically still looking.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
He has my sympathy, Sarasa, for what little it's worth. There are few things more pathetic than the excuses people come up with in lieu of honest feedback.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
How could they possibly tell how long he's going to stay, unless they're such rubbish employers that they don't expect people to stay?

My first proper full-time job was for a firm like that - Kirkwall was full of people who had once worked for Sue, Grabbit & Run*. I did quite well staying for three years. In fact, their reputation was such that when I asked about the card in the Job Centre window, the lady at the desk said, "it's in Sue, Grabbit & Run - are you sure you want to apply?"

* Name changed to protect the terminally stingy

[ 01. July 2015, 22:38: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Son showed me email from the Recruiter about job he didn't get. She sounds as fed up as he is. Apparently they've had four different agencies sending them people for the last two months. They obviously don't really know what they want.
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarasa:
Son showed me email from the Recruiter about job he didn't get. She sounds as fed up as he is. Apparently they've had four different agencies sending them people for the last two months. They obviously don't really know what they want.

---

Or maybe they do know who they want, it's just that person hasn't applied yet.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Incompetent cuntwipes at work have had over a month and still cannot give me any meaningful information - in fact it's taken them until today to reply to my increasingly crabby emails.

The whole university could fucking rot and I would rejoice.

AG
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
A few blanks drawn this week, with possibles turning into "no's". The contract where I am, in state office of my denomination, looks like having some possibility of extending. Unsure how I feel about this.

mr curly
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, I had a blart to a friend last night who is in charge of HR for another department, and she provided me with some very useful information within an hour. So I know have a stick to beat hem with, and paper copies thereof...

I had avoided mentioning it to her because it shouldn't be her problem, but I was so furious that I had to speak to someone who would know the ins and outs before I went off like a Claymore mine.

AG
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Interview was this morning - not sure how I did but will hear by, the end of the week. The start date is mid-Sept so I can enjoy the rest of the summer.
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Fingers crossed daisydaisy!

Please send some prayers my way for the assessment centre this Thursday.. it is in central London and if the planned tube strike goes ahead, I will have to get up at 5am at the latest to stand a chance of being on time... not a great start fro a gruelling day when I am supposed to be on max alert and in top form!

I know it is a small thing compared to the issues underlying the strike and the wider disruption for everyone involved, but it is yet another source of stress I don't need when I am feeling v fragile and hopeless already.

[/end of rant - sorry!]
 

---

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
hey Lia

'Assessment centres' can be fun - maybe a team exercise, something written, something spoken...time to settle in and not quite the high-pressure freeze-up that a 20 min interview might be like? I hope it goes well for you.

All the best
Mark
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good luck Lia!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Yes, good luck to Lia and daisydaisy!

Still not a meaningful squeak from our admin...

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck Lia and DaisyDaisy. It's the waiting to hear that I always hated.
Son's been to a couple more interviews, but no luck with new job as yet.
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Yesterday I heard that I'd not got the job. In many ways I'd have liked to have got it, but I'm OK with this.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Freaking out again... (sigh). Someone approached me at church to recruit me for a job to begin after the fiscal year ended (June 30). It would be right up my alley. Aside from one fleeting contact, I've heard nothing since, though I've been doing a kind of assignment-in-advance (on freelance terms) that relates to the job. Hope to hear today if the whole thing was just a figment of my imagination, or if there really WAS a job offer... (and IS...)
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Prayers. LC.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Thank you. Anxiety sucks.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Amen to that, LC!

AG
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Hi all,

thank you so much for your good wishes. Just checking in to say that unfortunately the assessment centre went really badly. I was exhausted after 3 nights with hardly any sleep and could not think straight.

I am still really disappointed and sad that I could not even give this a fair shot but I imagine I will get over it (currently being eaten alive by the black dog...).

best of luck to everyone still waiting and hoping for good news.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Gods, this thread is enough to bring the Black Dog on some days. What an absolute bugger, Lia.

Meanwhile it's so exciting here at w**k I'm sitting here writing an application.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Sorry to hear that, Lia - better luck next time.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Sorry Lia. Hope the next interview isn't so stressful. DiasyDaisy, I hope something you want turns up when you want it, and that you manage to sort out a new job, sort out HR in your current job Sandimaniac.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Sorry to hear that ,Lia..

Prayers for you and everyone else looking for jobs.
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Thank you everyone!
If there is one thing this experience has taught me is that people are much more caring and kind to me than I deserve and this has helped me to fee a little less invisible (here and IRL).

Best of luck to all of you, job- and meaning- seekers
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Lia, the whole experience of looking for work can be soul destroying.

I hope that people around you can give support, its a time when we all need it.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I'll agree with that, Huia. What makes it all the more galling is how rare it is to find anyone involved with career advice and the like who seems to understand that - my tolerance for platitudes has decreased to zero, largely as a result of dealing with the careers service here.

When I rule the world, anyone who claims to offer career advice will be summarily fired after two years, and have to find another job. This should result in:
1. you can tell who practices what they preach and
2. they might get a clue as to how soul destroying it is.

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
So what makes their career advice so unpalatable and what type of advice would you find helpful, Sandemaniac?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Gods, where to start?

It's not just me - I've found very few people here who've anything good to say about the Careers Service, least of all those in the same boat as me.

It is populated mostly by people who seem to have done their PhD and decided that careers advice would be a nice thing to do. No-one seems to have any real-world experience, certainly it's very rarely mentioned, and it's no coincidence that the person there I've had the best relationship with is a former industrial chemist who lost his job at Procter and Gamble. So he knows what it feels like.

I get the feeling that it's treated as a tick-box exercise, if you get three on the top row, four on the middle and three on the bottom row, you get a job. There's no recognition that some of us are trapped in a spiral of declining numbers of jobs and more people chasing them, and no sign of a way out (even less now...) - and the only tool they have for advising people what they could do is aimed at sixth-formers picking a university course, would have been very handy when I was seventeen without a degree, but now that I'm forty three with two and a half of the things it's ridiculously out of tune. There's no real empathy - I feel that I'm getting fed platitudes by numbers - and no recognition that it can be a desperately dispiriting experience.

You have to be above a particular pay band to take advantage of their "services" - a friend looks to be losing his job, and they will not help him because he isn't high enough up the tree, never mind that he's given the place twenty-plus years of his life. Similarly, just when I was at my lowest ebb, when I could have cried, fed up with shovelling shit and failing with application after application, they told me that they couldn't offer me anything more because I'd been on a lower pay band for more than a year. I could not believe how cuntish that was. I felt kicked in the balls, just when I thought it couldn't get lower.

What I am desperate, desperate for is to talk to someone with real experience in the field, to discuss what skills I have - hard and soft - and what I could put them to. I know what I don't want to do, what I don't know is what else I can do, I cannot keep on as I am, and it looks now as though I may be forced to try to do exactly that by the need to pay a mortgage. And I'm desperate to have something meaningful that I can actually DO to change the situation instead of staring once again into the Total Perspective Vortex.

Some things are improving - they now announce who will be at job fairs in advance online, for example, so you can see who is worth talking to, and they ran a local jobs event a while back, and some people there now will acknowledge that it's not an easy task, but it's still like talking to a wall.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I agree with you, though we don't have the thing about pay bands, I think. I went to career services at my old university, to come away with vocational testing that told me what I already know, and a couple suggestions on how to tweak my resume--not typos or similar, you understand, more design choices. Oh, and a recommendation to hide my PhD at the very bottom where they might not see it.

I've come to the conclusion that it's all about whom you know, and if the job I'm currently chasing (which may be all an illusion, galloping away over the horizon) turns out to be nothing, I'll be joining professional associations and meet-up groups and working the crowd like a baby-kissing politician.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I've never had much time for careers advisers (possibly because the one I remember from my schooldays was a bit of a w**ker who thought that everyone ought to study Psychology at university), but I'm completely baffled by the idea that they'd refuse to advise you because you're on the wrong pay level.

Why, for heaven's sake?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I presume it's a funding thing, but given where it is, I prefer to think that they just don't like the plebs.

AG
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
Just here to whinge really. I didn't make it to the second stage of the bonkers application process. It would appear that my experience isn't directly related enough - although we're talking divisions within a small sector here, where we use similar skills whatever area of the sector we're in. This keeps happening, I'm now thoroughly discouraged but I just can't seem to get even an interview.

I know I'm lucky to have a job at all, but it's sucking my life away and it would be better for me (and my workplace, to be honest) if I was somewhere else. Everything else coming up is a contract, and I don't want to risk giving up a permanent job for a temporary one - no matter how much I hate it. It seems to be a no win thing.
 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 
Reasonably favourable "pre-interview coffee" this morning. It would be contracting, perhaps in a month. Have had much worse meetings with prospective employers.

Day after tomorrow am meeting with a guy I did a lot of work for in 2012/13, not so much lately. I enjoyed the work, but the business hasn't grown. Maybe there's something brewing there?

mr curly
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scots lass:
... I don't want to risk giving up a permanent job for a temporary one ...

---

I think most of us would sympathise with you there, SL. My present job is on grant-dependent contracts, and while the present contract runs until the end of 2016, it's always stressful when the end-date approaches (particularly so last time, when our new appointment letters arrived about a week before the old contract was due to expire).
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Grant-dependent contracts are a sure-fire way of keeping your staff permanently scared.

AG
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I suppose I ought to report on here. I handed in my notice about 10 days ago. I am still employed to the end of August, finishing off and tidying up to handover on 14 August and available the week after. I should be petrified at the thought of being unemployed again as it took a while to get this job, but as I said at the leaving do (for my line manager with me tacked on) on Wednesday, I just feel relieved. There are three people being employed to replace me: two full time, one to cover the tutor role, one to cover the curriculum / exams role and another with a slightly different role, but still doing some of what I did.

I really need to apply for jobs, but I did put in for a few things recently as deadlines hit and realised reading the covering e-mails back that I was showing my anger in my current situation. I am hoping that having handed in my notice I won't feel so frustrated and can apply sensibly for jobs.

LeRoc reckons it's all his fault as he seems to meet us and we hand our notice in, so, in the pub last night, we suggested he should volunteer his services to help people move on when they need to.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
[cups hands to mouth]LeROC! GET YOUR ARSE OVER TO OXFORD NOW![/cups hands to mouth]

Adrian
(who, at the mo, mostly feels relieved about it too. This may change depending on how much of a clusterfuck open-ended contracts turn out to be)
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
Good news! I have a job interview on Monday. I spent most of a train journey between London and Edinburgh (and back) writing an application form and getting my travelling companion to edit it for me, a strategy which has clearly worked out. The downside is that it's a contract job that pays slightly less well than my current permanent job. Upside is obviously that it's not my current soul-destroying job and that the contract relates to an outside negotiation which I assume will be resolved positively, leading to permanence.

I am torn between excited and nervous, plus I have no idea what to wear and will be spending much of Sunday evening taking everything out of my wardrobe to try and work out what a) fits and b) makes me look professional and competent.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Best of British, Scots lass!

AG

[ 30. July 2015, 11:33: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
^^^ What he said.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck Scots Lass. I've never regretted going for posts with less money if it meant a return to a better balance between work and the rest of my life.
My son is still looking. The last post he went for decided that he didn't have enough experience. Fair enough, but as he pointed out given the salary they were wanting to pay they aren't going to attract people with that experience.
Yesterday he had an email from a recruiter saying he wasn't successful at getting his CV sent forward for a post. Again fair enough, except it was followed up by an email an hour later from the same recruiter for exactly the same post saying that his CV was just what they were looking for and could he fill in a supplementary form.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I think that merits an excrutiatingly polite phone call.

AG
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I am over doing boring work for difficult people and I want to do something else. True story: this week the details of partner profit sharing came out. My boss got a share for one year worth approximately twice the value of my house. He considered himself hard done by and is appealing it. Now, I grant that he has to pay taxes out of it and all the best but… no, we really, really do not have the same values.

I am going to take the Chartered Institute of Linguists’ translation diploma as an independent candidate. Which is a good plan because you don’t have to take any courses, you can just turn up on the day and sit the paper. But HOLY COW that exam is expensive (£600 plus the fee for sitting it at the British Council in Paris ). I have to get the paperwork in by the end of August to take the exam in January.

This route may lead to earning less money for me as well, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing. Husband en rouge, who is visually impaired, gets a bonus from the authorities as a disabled teacher. If our joint income goes above a certain level, he loses it. So it looks like the way forward might be for me to get a lower-paid job that I hate less, and for us to keep the bonus. We wouldn’t be much worse off, and I would be considerably less frustrated and unhappy.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
And yet another stupid question from me.

We have a local quarterly free magazine, which is a mix of adverts for local businesses (which finances it), What's On, reports of local news etc. I do a local history bit. It takes 2-3 hours once a quarter, so only about 10 hours a year (unpaid, of course).

I've also had a few articles published in a family history magazine over the past 10 years. (again, not paid).

Plus a couple of newspaper pieces (can't remember, but think I got approx £20 per piece).

The North East Man has suggested I add these to my CV. Surely that would look a bit desperate?
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I disagree - you may be doing voluntarily but you what you want to show is that you have these skill sets - and they are valuable ones! They won't know if you don't tell them.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
No, really include any relevant skills and experience, particularly targeting experience that demonstrates anything required by that job description. And tweak your CV for each job application.

I've got things I did as a school governor on one version of my CV as they are relevant to that particular field. If I'm playing the admin card then other activities are highlighted: role as secretary for a local organisation and my successful applications for charitable status and grant funding, for example.

I continued as a school governor and did various other things while I was caring for my daughter when she was sick so that particular period is covered by voluntary activities because schools are particularly twitchy that all times are covered satisfactorily, just in case you've been incarcerated.
 

---

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
I am on the employer side of this. We have been trying to hire admin staff for 3 months. Critical is that the skills claimed are real. It doesn't matter how acquired. Don't pad the resume and claim experiences you don't really have. Ability and willingness to learn is as important. Initiative is important. Writing articles shows at least two things. That you can write and initiative. Put it in.

More generally, if it is a dealing with the public type of job, employers assess everything. From all phone calls through waiting for interview, we observe it all. Your mobile, turn it off. Return messages preferably the same day.

Good employees are like gold.

[ 01. August 2015, 16:21: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I think WW and CK are right - the individual things may seem trivial to you, but they're still demonstrating your skills as a writer/communicator, and also that while you're not in actual paid employment, you're not just sitting about waiting for the grass to grow.

Go for it - get your trumpet out and blow it as hard as you possibly can!
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
... besides, you'd be shocked just how many people look at you with Awe and Wonder™ because you have a published article anywhere, under any circumstances.

You may think it of little account; chances are your resume readers won't.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
On a related note, someone who got their PhD a year ahead of me is including book reviews in academic journals as "academic publications." I thought that looked ridiculous. I do have "book reviewer" in my CV but I don't have them all listed under academic publications because...well, they're just book reviews. I've done five so far.

A book review isn't an "academic publication" is it?
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Maybe it depends on what book you were reviewing.

The Oxford Handbook of Clinical Medicine might well count as one; Fifty Shades of Grey probably not.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I'm guessing it depends on whether you were asked to be a reviewer (not the same thing as popping up on Amazon to do it!) and also whether you mark them honestly and openly as "book reviews" in the resume. If you have other, "real" academic publishing, put that up first and add this as a modest ending. (It does show you're active in your field.)

[ 01. August 2015, 22:06: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
Also depends on the job being applied for. Senior lecturer, probably not as it's obvious to everyone that it's just padding and you should have more journal articles/books on your CV. Teaching/research assistant, they could look good as shows you are active in keeping up with your field. But yes, I agree that you would put them as 'book reviews' in a separate section, rather than include them in the 'academic publications' section.

I think I'd be inclined, if the CV is bloated (which academic CVs often are), to just put 'book reviewer for the Journal of X', and then add something like 'refereces of reviews available on request'. Similarly for the magazine articles (or, if there's one article you're particularly proud of then include the reference for that one and then perhaps a note that there are X other articles by you printed in the magazine).

[ 02. August 2015, 11:51: Message edited by: Jack the Lass ]
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well that was interesting. I had a Skype conversation earlier today with someone I've applied for a job with - it seems he's trying to cut down his shortlist to a manageable size. Fingers crossed I've impressed.

In other news, I had the following from our admin team(?) yesterday:

"I am still in communication with Personnel Services and have yet to be advised that we are anywhere near Stage 3. The next step for me is to arrange a meeting with [Pointy Haired Boss] and Personnel Services.

Whilst I appreciate that this whole process is unsettling for you, there is still a possibility (and I cannot make a guess at this stage what the probability is) that we will not move to Stage 3. As soon as I have any news for you, I will let you know."

Reading between the lines I think this means "We don't have a fucking clue".

AG
 

---

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:

A book review isn't an "academic publication" is it?

---

No, it's not. Being invited by someone fairly prestigious to review some books is worth something, as is being a reviewer for a journal - but neither of these things is an academic publication.

Don't list this kind of stuff alongside your academic work, as it dilutes the impact of the scholarly work you've done. Do mention it - it's not worthless - but don't mix it in.

You might add a sentence at the end of your publications section that says "also the author of N articles on local history aimed at the general public in a selection of local magazines and newspapers" or something.

[ 04. August 2015, 15:40: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Book reviews in your field are a form of academic publication.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Bollocks. After yesterday's interview-lite, today has been a horrible mood crash, not helped by a very earnest chap at an agency trying to interest me in technical sales roles (I phoned to let him know that a mortgage now meant there was no likelihood of me taking a pay cut to change direction). Given a choice between a sales role and stapling my scrotum to a plank, all I can say is "Pass the staples!".

Incidentally, I notice that no-one has yet defended career advisers.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
We're desperate, not crazy.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I spent about a decade as an employment counsellor for university students. Would that be your equivalent of a careers counsellor, Sandemaniac? In universities in Canada, career counselling is usually performed by licensed counsellors which I am not.
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
Monday's interview was alright - I know it wasn't awful, and it seemed to go ok so I'v been waiting to hear back from them. Today I got an email inviting me to come for a second interview on Monday (they seem to like Mondays), which was not in the original spec ! The panel for this interview only has one person in common with the panel from last time. I've never had a second interview before - what do they generally involve? The previous one went over all the technical bits to do with the job (standards, the software we use) plus the usual management-y/team stuff, so i have no idea what to expect.

Plus now I feel I need to find a different outfit, which is a pain...
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Did they give you any behavioural based questions in the first interview? Usually, the second interview is looking for fit with the workplace culture amongst other things.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caissa:
I spent about a decade as an employment counsellor for university students

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scots lass:
... Plus now I feel I need to find a different outfit, which is a pain...

---

Would you be able to change just one element of the outfit, say, same jacket, different skirt/trousers (or vice-versa); or, if it's a suit, wear a different shirt/blouse?

Either way, best of luck!

And the same to Sandemaniac and Son of Sarasa!



[ 07. August 2015, 00:45: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Good idea about changing an aspect of the outfit. I would also add perhaps a scarf or similar.

Interviewers may not remember what you wore, unless you were the only person they saw.

[ 07. August 2015, 01:07: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
A scarf was my first thought, too. Accessories can really do wonders.
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Hi all,

after you patiently read about the negative outcome of my assessment centre up-thread, I have now had a glimmer of hope, in the form of a semi-certain job offer (as a result of my narrowly missing the score for admission).

The job would be at a v low grade and at half my salary in my current job, but it would be with the civil service and certainly with better work/life balance.

I skipped all the way home yesterday after hearing the news, but this might have more to do with having a way out from my current dead-end job, rather than with the wonderfulness of the new opportunity.

I am v grateful to be given this unexpected option but really don't know what to do.

I actually don't mind working long hours and don't want to get bored - am more interested in career progression opportunities and the change to move away from IT, as I am not passionate about it.

Any advice gratefully received!

Lia
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
I would go for it Lia, if you think that you can cope with the lower salary. As I've said upthread I've never regretted taking less salary to move onto a job that I think I would enjoy more.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I think Sarasa's probably right. If your current job is so ghastly that it's making you unwell, and the lower salary is still liveable-on, the increase in satisfaction will probably make it worth it.

[ 07. August 2015, 13:28: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Thirded. If you can pay the bills on it, take the option for your health and sanity.

AG
 

---

Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 
Job interview on Wednesday. Feeling very funny about it, as I love my current job (and my workmates), but I need to move nearer my elderly relatives.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I will be thinking of you on Wednesday Arabella.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 
Thanks, 9.30am is the time. All positive vibes sent will be gratefully received.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Vibes heading your way from over here!

eta: I'd better send them on Tuesday, as by that time it'll be Wednesday with you.

[ 09. August 2015, 01:03: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Sending my best wishes now Arabella as my memory is hopeless for that sort of thing - and it will be 3 of the a.m. here! But then I might well be on one of my nightly pilgrimages to the bathroom at that hour!
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Hi guys,

it is manic at work, so don't have tome to post properly, but thank you so much for your advice.

I will wait until I know more about the nature of the role and the exact salary before I make a decision. I also have a phone interview for a big City company next week which would mean very good money and prestige but long hours and stress, so I might have to make multiple decisions.. we will see how the timing works out as this might all come to nothing.

Thank you again for your help and best wished to Arabella for Wed.

Lia
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caissa:
All of my adult work experience is in the university so as an employment counsellor one may have thought I was deficient in real world experience.

---

Maybe that's part of the problem here - it's being done by people who fit the advertised requirements, rather than real life?

There's a role being advertised
here - click on the grey button and scroll down, for some reason they can't manage to make jobs available on a link that can be emailed! Your views might be interesting...?

AG
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I can't seem to find a specific job at that link.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Click on "View current professional and management jobs", and scroll down page one. It works on my home PC, so shouldn't be an Oxford-only issue.

That does rather sum up why I get annoyed with the place - no-one seems to have thought that people might want to send people a link to something that might interest them...

Adrian
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
It struck me, on reading that advert, that the blurb was almost completely without meaning or substance.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
You and me both, Wodders!

AG
 

---

Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 
It was a very strange interview, and I came out of it not having a clue how it went, which is unique in my experience. They won't be letting anyone know for another week, so I've been wandering around in a state of blah.

To be honest, I'm not sure I want to work with them, they were so unfriendly. My best interpretation is that they had a preferred candidate already lined up.

Weird.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
APW, at least if you're not sure you want to work for them, you'll not be too disappointed if they say no.
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Actually maybe more complex than that, some may have a preferred candidate that others do not want to get the job. It would also explain the cold atmosphere.


Jengie
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, at long fucking last, I have a meeting. As it is with an "HR Business Partner" from Personnel Services - whatever the fuck that verbiage means - and my boss, which could be very interesting A) because he has zero sense of arriving on time and B) because my HR contact who will be there with me thinks that he may have an obligation to find funding whatever. That would help pay the mortgage (completion due September 7th) but it's a very unhappy workplace.

Ho hum. Finger crossed for the interview I have two days after that...

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good luck with both, Sandemaniac.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck Sandimaniac, and sorry interview was odd APW. I've been to some very odd ones in my time, including several where I could see they were only interviewing me because I emt the criteria, not because they actually wanted me.
Son is still looking. At least he now has several recruiters trying to find him things and interviews turning up at regular interviews.
 

---

Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 
Hope it goes well Sandemaniac.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Good Luck for tomorrow Sandemaniac
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Best wishes from me too.

Memo to self. Have coffee before typing even a few words.

[ 17. August 2015, 22:33: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
...and me AG.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Tomorrow? Oh, sorry, I don't seem to have been very clear in my spluttering.

Meeting is September 2nd, a mere three months since I was told. Interview the 4th, completion the 7th. Can I handle it all?

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Sure you can - sock it to 'em!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, I shall be better able to after today. Today was a truly hideous mood slump - like someone blew up the powers station as I plugged in to recharge. Thankfully the bastard things only last hours these days.

AG
 

---

Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 
Good luck! Sorry it's such a lengthy wait though.

Second interview was ok, although they told me I'd hear in 48 hours and a week later still hadn't responded. By which time I'd concluded I probably hadn't got the job - and lo, I was correct. Feedback to follow next week when the panel chair is back from holiday. The timing would have been terrible, as moving job on top of getting married and moving house in the next few months would have been incredibly stressful, but it's still disappointing. Still, I got to second interview and was presumably one of the top two candidates, so it's encouraging in some ways and I can chalk it up to experience.
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Wishing you patience, Sandemaniac, and a better meeting than you anticipate.
Wishing you patience too Scots Lass, and the result that you truly want.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
God, give me patience, and give it to me NOW!

Thank you, daisydaisy, that is a most apt thought.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
God, give me patience, and give it to me NOW!

Thank you, daisydaisy, that is a most apt thought.

AG

---

• co-ordinated reporting from a wide variety of sources, including non-financial staff
• assisted with the several large acquisitions
• played the trombone in the office whilst wearing just one sock
• added erroneous/facetious bullet points just to check you were paying attention
• worked to numerous tight deadlines

 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I guess I could (and I like your points three and four), but I rather feel that there's enough bullets in the CV without making the letter another military extravaganza.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Is it possible to write a brief paragraph about each previous job, and just separate the individual duties with semicolons?

Something like:

While employed at Finknottle, Bedknob & Broomstick, my duties included, inter alia, creation of reports; laboratory analysis of various types of lichens; supervising the lichen-collectors; making the tea; and other usual laboratory activities.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Remember the purpose of a coverleetr and a resume/cv is to get an interview. They usually not be read in their entirety you have 15-30 seconds to catch an employer's attention.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Typing on a phone? Rather you than me...

So given that short time period (incidentally, it seems that these days in the University of Blithering Sphincters, this is also accompanied by ticking off a checklist, must be fun I don't think), should I just "I have" to my hearts content, or bullet it, or what

AG
 

---

Posted by geroff (# 3882) on :
 
After just 6 months of looking, I have verbally accepted the offer of an architectural technician job in an architects office just 45 minutes from our house in Wales.
As is usual for jobs in architecture this was not an advertised position. This was my third go at sending CVs to practices in the area. Following some advice from an architect in private practice , I sent this lot out by post.
Actually all 3 interviews I have had have been as a result of a letter not an email. I think what this probably says is that many leaders of practices are not as internet savvy as they would like to think. It also shows that in an office where they probably get two items of post a day, it gets noticed.
If you are interested, my CV was a succinct two sides of A4 with text overlaid on a picture of one of the projects I have worked on.

[ 26. August 2015, 19:04: Message edited by: geroff ]
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Wow, Bravo geroff!

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
What Sandemaniac said - congratulations Geroff!
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Congratulations Geroff.
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
Excellent news Geroff
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Congrats Geroff!

Have send-round interview with Big Bank on Tuesday...scared, as I am really not good with maths and medal calculations, don't really know what the interview will entail and don't feel prepared...

Please pray that I don't disgrace myself (and the friend who recommended me!).

In the meantime, the civil service thing is progressing at snail's pace...will heard about the actual role by 15th Sept...

Lia
 

---

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :
 
That is really good news, Geroff!
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Hope interview goes well Lia and the civil service role is one you want. Congrats to Geroff too.
Son has found a job, not sure if he actually what he really wants, but should be good industrial experience. We're in Italy so don't know a lot of details.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and Hurrah! for Sarasa's son as well. I know how much of a struggle it's been. Let's hope it's a start for him.

AG
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Fantastic news, geroff, well done.

Brilliant for your son, Sarasa.

Good luck, Lia.

I seem to still be stuck in the void as none of the hand over meetings have happened and current conversations are about a half term contract to buy them time.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
What is it with jobs and taking an absolute fornicating infinity to sort anything out?

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
The wheels can grind very slowly; my boss first told me she was looking for an assistant in October 2010, and it took the PTB until March 2011 to sort everything out so that I could start.

Congratulations to Sarasa's son - hope the job turns out to be what he wants.

Good luck, Lia!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I can well believe that, Piglet. In October 1998 I applied for a permanent job literally on my doorstep - within the site I'd been working on for the previous three years - and went through a long slow process of occasional interviews, plus phone calls saying "Why haven't we got this from you?" - mostly because they hadn't asked. Eventually, in March 1999 they paid me a months salary, then asked for it back when they twigged I hadn't actually started working for them.

That's when I gave up in disgust and took a three month contract in Oxford instead.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
My lot compounded the insult by not asking me for the relevant paperwork, so my first salary was delayed too.

Wonderful, isn't it?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Isn't it just! My lot delayed by a month at one point owing to "problems getting my security clearance" - which was spheroids, because they could have picked up he internal phone and rung my previous employer as they were on the same site and phone system!

How do people like that even get into the gene pool, never mind make it to employable age?

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, tomorrow at 10.30, I will find out what the feck is going on with regards to funding for my post, and whether I will have a job to pay the mortgage with.

Please think of me, pray, rattle beads. sacrifice cockerels, or whatever.


AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck for tomorrow Sandemaniac. I hope things are clearer after you've spoken to them.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Good luck, Sandemaniac.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Cockerels being sacrificed as we speak ...

Best of luck!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, I now now what the flip is going on.

As of today I'm effectively at the start of three months notice, because Pointy Haired Boss has used all the money he can find (thanks for telling me). I'm eligible for redeployment (ha ha), and should I choose to bog off during the three months, I can take severance pay. If I don't get anything within that time, the department will have to find an extra three months funding for me, but I will only get statutory redundancy, which is less than half the severance (£8k as opposed to 17K). But I'd need to have something else within that time, presumably outwith the university.

I can get a Redeployment Adviser - usually the administrator , ha ha - and can now claim priority candidate status (also ha ha).

So we've got a few months grace paying the mortgage, PTFL.

AG
 

---

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
ugg. Would you earn 9k after tax in the second 3 months? If not, seems like it might be worth an extended Christmas break...
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Tempting, very tempting, but everyone always says it's so much easier finding a job when you already have one, and if I took it, then got another job in the university in a few months time, I'd have lost sixteen years worth of continuous service, which would be worth that much more in X years.

AG
 

---

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
Hard, innit! You don't want to listen to me - I walked out on 20 years university service with no payoff at all. Still, at least I avoided jumping under a train, which is how I felt by the end of it...
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I can sympathise with that feeling, Mark! But they're the biggest employer for miles, and I need to pay the brand new mortgage.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Give yourself a little while before you jump one way or the other. De ions like this are never easy.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
That does sound tough, Sandemaniac - I hope something will work itself out.

You're wise not to do anything hasty, especially not anything that could jeopardise your chances of redeployment (or indeed bugger up your pension situation when the time comes).


 

---

Posted by Celtic Knotweed (# 13008) on :
 
On a somewhat brighter note for this thread, I've sort-of got a new job! 6-month secondment to a different department, on the next pay band up, starting later this month. Very pleased as I'm getting in a bit of a rut here.

Another reason why Sandemaniac isn't leaving his current lot in a hurry...
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
The perils of venting somewhere where your partner can see it...

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good on you, CK - may your good fortune prove to be contagious ...
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good news CK. Sandemaniac, at least you have a clear idea about options now. I hope something suitable turns up pronto.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
So do I!

Meanwhile, Total Jobs has been excelling itself. For some reason it has taken to emailing me jobs as shop managers (and how pants the pay can be has been a revelation).

Today.... not only did it email me a job running an Argos, but it had a closing date of August 7th!

AG
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
This is from 2008, so salaries are probably roughly the same.

In case anyone wants to consider new avenues. Best and worst paid jobs in Britain

Edited for code.

[ 03. September 2015, 22:28: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Prayers, cockerels etc welcomed - interview at 3.45 GMT+1 today. In a few minutes, the wireless switch on the computer goes off!

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck for later Sandemaniac. As a good vegetarian I don't do cockerels, but I'll think of a suitable substitute.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Best wishes Sandemaniac.

I am still with the same job, sort of, part of it and not tied into it for the full academic year. The big problem is no handovers have happened over the summer and unless I handover to someone, none of the kids who are half way through qualifications will get them. There are all sorts of other problems that aren't resolved and need resolving too.

I am not best pleased, but I really don't want to walk away failing a group of students.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
All the best, Sandemaniac!

LinkedIn's latest three "Jobs you may be interested in" are: a G.P., a welder, and a DVSA vehicle examiner.

WTAF?
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Do the people (or the computer) at Linked In actually look at your qualifications?

Best of luck, Sandemaniac - sock it to 'em!
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Perhaps you could be a GP, a welder and a DVSA examiner at one and the same time!
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
That's an idea: GP to mend the people who get broken when the vehicle has a prang, welder to mend the vehicle, and DVSA tester to make sure the welding's been done properly ...

Multi-tasking, eh?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Thanks everyone - I didn't clam up like a ... well, clam, so hopefully all went well.

Scary moment afterwards - I met the lab and they all seemed really nice people, got on well, went out for the occasional pub lunch, went for a beer after work...

They were normal! I haven't worked anywhere like that for years...

CK, that is veritably Dysonesque in its level of sucksness.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good to hear it, Sandemaniac!

I'm lucky that the lab people in our department are that kind of normal too - we go out for the occasional boozy lunch, any excuse is good enough for a party and when my boss introduced me to them (before I'd even started my job) they asked me to join their lottery syndicate.

Not that we've done much in the way of winning, you understand ...
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Seconding Piglet's good wishes. I hope all turns out well for you..
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Buggeringfucktwats.

At least they told me quickly. And I was on a buzz from getting the house keys when I read the email, so haven't needed to lock up the sharp implements yet.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Bollocks. Sorry it didn't work out, Sandemaniac.


 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Piglet has said it well. Bollocks.

[ 08. September 2015, 03:07: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
 

---

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 
I haven't been on the Ship for a while and a lot has been going on in my life. I left my (boring) NHS job earlier this year, which I had been doing too long, and went to train as a (train) conductor. That was great initially and I qualified back in June. Alas, I couldn't pass a 'ride-out' assessment despite several attempts, and am now out of a job. Please pray as I am one disappointed person.
 

---

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 
On a more positive note, I got engaged, whil;e in the northern Lake District, a few weeks ago!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Sandemaniac and Alaric.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
It seems they had someone with more directly relevant experience.

Maybe Kind Hearts and Coronets really is the way to go?

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Just remember - if you go down that route, DON'T WRITE YOUR MEMOIRS.

AtG - congratulations on your engagement, and commiserations that the change of career didn't work out. Best of luck finding something suitable.
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Sorry to hear that Sandemaniac and Alaric the Goth.

I am investigating doing a 4 week intensive Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages (TESOL, related to TEFL) in the hope that this will lead to a source of flexible employment (and quickly pay for the course)
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
How the feck do I demonstrate manual dexterity in a covering letter?

AG
 

---

Posted by Lucia (# 15201) on :
 
Hand write it in an unusual flourishing font and then fold it up into an intricate piece of origami before sending it?

[ 10. September 2015, 10:34: Message edited by: Lucia ]
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
A much better solution than the very boring one I thought of - if only!

AG
 

---

Posted by Kittyville (# 16106) on :
 
Made it to the escape hatch! It's been a ride - good moments, but mostly crappy. Can't wait to finish up.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kittyville:
Made it to the escape hatch! It's been a ride - good moments, but mostly crappy. Can't wait to finish up.

---

Do you have something else to go to or are you looking or learning to breath again and look around. Hope you find something suitable somewhere suitable.
 

---

Posted by Kittyville (# 16106) on :
 
Yes, thanks, Lothlorien. I'm far too unadventurous to quit without somewhere else to go. But I do have a few weeks off in between, which is very nice.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Commiserations Sandemaniac and Alaric the Goth.

(Apparently there are problems with dragging me back, with my heels dragging, not least head office kicking up about funding it. I'm still trying to unscramble things that were left unresolved at the end of last year, not least the exams officer who waltzed off with a student's work without entering it for the June deadlines, for example. I now have the work ...)
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Sorry AtG that new career didn't pan out - hope something else comes along very shortly.
Curiousity Killed - that sounds dire, and even more reasons for you to be trying to get out. The kids you work with have enough going on without crap admin mucking things up for them.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Mostly keeping it on the front page, but just passing comment that buying a house when your job is at risk is not a move guaranteed to lower your stress levels.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
It's all very well and good suggesting that you can investigate whether the department could give me a bigger payout so that that I could go elsewhere and retrain earlier, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem that I still don't know what the living fuck else I can do.

AG
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
https://targetjobs.co.uk/career-sectors/retail-buying-and-merchandising/324077-which-graduate-retail-employer-pays-the-most

Nature of your first degree doesn't matter for these and they pay well quite quickly. As an organiser with attention to detail, you'd have transferable skills.

(That £42000 + audi is what you get entering the 18 week traing course to be an Aldi area manager. )

[ 22. September 2015, 15:05: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
They say they want a 2:1 in any subject, but having a masters would probably trump a 2:2 I think.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...perhaps I should have said "what do I actually want to do?"?

I appreciate the thought, but I just can't get excited about retailing.

AG
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
If you need money, and you don't want to drop income whilst retraining, your options are limited - working in retail doesn't mean you have to stay doing it forever though.
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Apparently not everyone can "do" sales - I once took a test which showed that I should never go into sales. I think it's to do with closing a sale, which I know I'd be hopeless at. I'm not sure I'd be very good at a checkout in a supermarket either, based on my experience of the 2 days each year I did in stores while working for a huge day retailer - I have great respect for the patience these people have to display, and the speed at which they scan.

This afternoon I have an interview for a training course leading to Teaching English as a Second Language (TESOL) - it' s a 1 month intensive course, hopefully enabling me to work flexibly and generate an income.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, they've upped the bribe to leave if I bugger off by the end of October, but if they think I'm going to go willingly without another job to go to they've got another think coming. Effectively a year's salary tax free is all very well, but it's been a long, long time since it's taken me less than a year to find a job.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
That's rotten, Sandemaniac - something similar happened to D. when his previous job went pear-shaped, and it was very pressurising to feel that there was a race against the clock to find something else.


 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
sandemaniac
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Today, LinkedIn has suggested two jobs I might be interested in - Hydraulics Design Engineer and - wait for it - Volunteer Charity Shop Assistant.

Do companies pay LinkedIn to advertise jobs? Do oil companies know that adverts for hydraulic design engineers are being sent to people with history degrees and whose engineering experience is a Girl Guide badge in Make-Do-And-Mend?



On the positive side, my book chapter proposal has been accepted, so although it's not paid work, it is something to get my teeth into. The (volunteer) history walk leading season ended on Saturday, I enjoyed that. I'm organising a day conference which is challenging (and unpaid!) but good experience. One of these days....
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Yes, I'm getting similar suggestions from Glassdoor in particular (Why does anyone recommend this? It's shite!). The most recent has been a commis chef! WTF?

Meanwhile, the desperate drudge goes on. Who would want to stay somewhere that will pay for you to leave but not to stay, but it's the biggest employer for miles, and the best payer...

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Sympathies, Sandemaniac. It is rubbish.

I haven't heard of Glassdoor, but given how crap LinkedIn is, I'm not interested in more of the same.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
It's a job site rather than a networking one, but it's just a PITA, constant emails of jobs you've seen before, and if you make the mistake of clicking on one to try to work out why on earth it's sent you it, you get more of the same.

One of its more pointless tricks is sending you lists of jobs you've recently looked at...

Total Jobs ain't much better, though Indeed seems OKish.

AG
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Has anyone here tried the Skills Health Check on the National Careers Service's Career tools site?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Not here, but I guess I can give it a go and see.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Apparently I did three years ago. PM me your email (or remind me what it is!) and I'll send a copy so you can see what sort of bumf it generates.

Looking at it now, I seem to recall that I found it far too general to tell me anything I didn't already know.

AG

[ 30. September 2015, 09:27: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and another interview, Wednesday 7th October. Let's see how this one goes.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Once again, all the best, Sandemaniac.
 

---

Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
Good luck Sandemaniac.

(LinkedIN has taken to suggesting I might be interested Finance Director posts. Given that I am not an accountant and have never worked in finance (nor do I have any interest or expertise in doing so) I have no clue why they are quite so insistent on this.)
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck Sandemaniac with the interview, and with the decisions about your current job. If it was me I think I'd take the money and run, but then I'm not trying to buy a house at the same time.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
If I thought there was a decent likelihood of me getting another job fast I'd have been off like a shot. Unfortunately I don't (one of yesterday's applications has already come back with a no!) - no-one is interested in senior technical staff, they either get a post-doc cheaply on the glutted market or a new graduate.

AG
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Hope the interview goes well , Sandemaniac
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
I'm currently employed at a small firm, but have been sending resumes out for government jobs. I applied for a job a month or two ago, and shortly after I sent in my application, we received an e-mail stating that everyone would be considered for one of two openings.

Two weeks ago, I got rejection letter number one. Fine, it was kind of a reach anyway.

Last night, I got rejection letter number two. No kidding, it was a photo copy of rejection letter one, with the date crossed out and a new date written in by hand.

What would it have taken to change the date? Two minutes?

Pretty rich coming from someone who wanted a detail-oriented attorney. If he pulled that on a cover letter and I was the hiring attorney, his resume would have landed in the trash.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Hmm Og, sounds rather familiar. My son got a rejection email the other day saying that he hadn't been succesful at a recent interview he attended. Not surprsing as he phoned them several days before hand to say we wouldn't be there as he'd been offered another post.
Hope something better comes alog soon if you want it.
 

---

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by daisydaisy:

I am investigating doing a 4 week intensive Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages (TESOL, related to TEFL) in the hope that this will lead to a source of flexible employment (and quickly pay for the course)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Good luck with your TEFL course. Are you thinking of going elsewhere to teach? The best-paid jobs aren't in the UK, at least until you get some solid experience, and probably further qualifications.

I've taught EFL before, and I'm planning return to that line of work shortly. I need to update myself (and become a more competitive applicant) with a course like yours, though I'm not looking forward to the expense. I'll probably do mine abroad.

---

Thanks - I don't plan teaching overseas, although maybe one day.... meanwhile I live within a shortish drive of 5 cities which each have language schools, and I'm planning on eventually teaching English For Business (I guess this is further qualifications - the school were not forthcoming with information at the interview). In the short term I anticipate teaching refugees locally (I understand that locally there is a shortage of teachers available) which, as well as being a Good Thing, will give me some experience teaching while I wait for work to come from the language schools.
I looked at doing the course overseas, but the cost would then include accommodation and travel, so it is far more cost effective to do it close to home, and given the intensive nature of the course I don't think I'd get much chance for sight-seeing if I was away from home.
Hope your plans go well.
 

---

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
Ah, I see.

There's a need for ESOL tutors in my region, but not exactly a large one, all things considered. I think the funding's been cut to some extent.

I do think I'd save more money if I went to South East Asia to work, and if I did my course there I'd be better placed to find a decent job.

There's also the urge to escape from Blighty!
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
I forgot to add that teaching refugees will be voluntary, as there is no funding. On the plus side it'll give me valuable experience. Leaving Blighty for more than a week or so isn't an option at the moment.
 

---

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
No - I'm not saying that you should leave Blighty, I'm saying that that's what I need to do!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, interview and lab test over... Not helped by being fifteen minutes late, took me the best part of two hours to do a journey I can do in 45 on my bike. Perhaps I should say sod it next time, and just cycle in the suit? Not easy by bus either, with at least two changes and a walk between in pissing rain. Hopefully the fact that they work to a checklist will be in my favour, though I'm fucked if someone else has done something similar before. All the preparation seemed worth it, anyway. We shall see... last time I had an interview with this lot it took ten weeks to hear back, but I'm now in the same building so they won't get away with it again!

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
My sympathies, Sandemaniac. I once went for a job interview when I took a wrong turn and got lost in the building; it was only in conversation with one of the other waiting candidates that I realised we weren't talking about the same job ...

I made it to the interview - just - but by then I was in such a state of perspiring panic that I couldn't really do myself justice.

that they see sense and offer you the job.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Hope you're succesful Sandemaniac, and that you hear one way or the other soon. I hate the waiting!
Anything else in the pipeline?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I hope it works out Sandemaniac.

On the subject of turning up at the wrong venue, I heard of a former colleague who went to Russell Square, London instead of Russell House, Three Bridges nr Crawley.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
FFS! No decision has been made yet. Really? You have five, maybe six candidates, and you cannot decide inn this time?

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and a new classic from Glassdoor.

"Hopitality" Executive!

Presumably being a unidexter would be more of an advantage for this role than that of Tarzan?

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
LinkedIn e-mailed me today with the suggestion I might like to apply for a post as a hydraulics design engineer, or a structural design engineer.

Alternatively, I might like to spend £60 per day commuting 150 miles each way to work as a volunteer recruitment co-ordinator.

We used to have a plastic bath toy which involved turning taps on and off to make wheels go round. Great fun. Do you think that's enough experience to apply for the hydraulics post?

I hope you hear soon, Sandemaniac, and that no news so far is good news.
 

---

Posted by Ophicleide16 (# 16344) on :
 
Sorry I don't post much- mainly lurk and read, but I feel the need to let off some steam.

I'm 24, good education, some academic publishing to my name and some high profile church music. But I can't find a fucking job- the best I've done the last few years is scratch around trying to find whatever I could, which mainly was charity work and poorly paid music.

I don't think I deserve this- I wrote a brilliant CV, but I don't even get replies for cleaning jobs. I don't know what's going wrong or why there seems to be such a stretch of bad luck, just that it's killing me and turning me into a wreck
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Are you submitting the brilliant CV for everything? If so that might be why you are not getting anywhere with shit jobs - why employ someone with a CV this good when they'll just bog off the moment something else comes along? Never mind that the something else isn't coming along, that's how they seem to think.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
I agree with Sandemaniac. Companies seem to want people they think are going to stick even if they do dole out short-term contracts and finish them at the drop of a hat. My son had several contracts like that and then had other companies turning him down on the grounds they didn't think he'd stay. He has found something permanent at last but it took a good while.
Maybe sit down and think what do you really want to do and how will you get there, and then apply for jobs that might make it happen, even if they are at lower level than you'd like. Is it worth thinking of going and doing a masters or some other training? Meanwhile how about schools, they always seem desperate for bright young people as Learning support assistants and cover supervisors.
Hang on in there - I know it's vile having been through it with my son over the last few years.
 

---

Posted by Kittyville (# 16106) on :
 
Two suggestions, Ophiicleide16 - if you haven't already done so, have your CV checked by a recruitment agent who specialises in the area of employment you're most interested in, if there is one. It may not be as brilliant as you think, from an employer's point of view. And also consider "horses for courses" CVs. Adapt your CV to the specific job you're applying for. It doesn't need to be a complete rewrite each time, but emphasise the parts that will particularly attract the attention of the hiring manager for the role.

[ 14. October 2015, 10:15: Message edited by: Kittyville ]
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I'm inclined to agree, Ophicleide - you're way too well-qualified for some of the jobs you're going for (but hats off to you for going for them anyway).

I know it's a bit of a cliché for musicians, but is teaching an option, and if so, would you be geographically mobile?

Sometimes you can get your foot on the employment ladder by going somewhere you might not have thought of; D. and I met when he moved to Orkney to take up a post teaching music.
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
The reason why companies want individuals who will stick around is because recruitment is costly and time consuming. Always, always, always target your CV to the specific job. It is another form of writing in which you are trying to persuade your audience. In this case, you are attempting to persuade your audience to give you an interview.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caissa:
The reason why companies want individuals who will stick around is because recruitment is costly and time consuming. Always, always, always target your CV to the specific job. It is another form of writing in which you are trying to persuade your audience. In this case, you are attempting to persuade your audience to give you an interview.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Didn't get the job. I have come to the realisation that the stress is making me quite ill, so I am just going to take the severance and fuck 'em. Hopefully a friend can get me something with his company - a desk job, which I'm not looking forward to, but a way into a small biotech.

AG

---

So sorry you didn't get the job, and I hope you soon feel improvements all round following your decision

 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Sorry to hear that, Sandemaniac, and hope the biotech job works out (and reduces the stress levels).
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
That's a shame, Pandemoniac. I hope the relief from the stress helps you feel better and that this friend may have a job which is a good fit for you.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Sandemaniac - I think that is a very sensible decision. I think a bit of distance from your current job will be a good thing.I hope you find job you really want, and although a desk job might not be it, it will add new skills to your CV.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I'm sad, too, but think the decision to take the money rather than opening the box is probably a good one.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lothlorien:
That's a shame, Pandemoniac.

---

Oh dear, do I make that much noise? Errr... probably, yes. Eek!

I have to say that I've been a lot calmer since I made the call - the end is in sight, thank God.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Sandemaniac,

My apologies for that typo which gave many of you a laugh, I guess. I am fussy about names and do not like getting them wrong.


 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Nothing to apologise for, Lothlorien, it gave me a good laugh (in fact, I might find another board to use it on!)

AG
 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Didn't get the job. I have come to the realisation that the stress is making me quite ill, so I am just going to take the severance and fuck 'em. Hopefully a friend can get me something with his company - a desk job, which I'm not looking forward to, but a way into a small biotech.

AG

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Nothing to apologise for, Lothlorien, it gave me a good laugh (in fact, I might find another board to use it on!)

---

Next name change amnesty?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I swear the whole situation is taking the piss out of me - I now have an invite to an interview on a day I'm sure I told them I couldn't make...

AG
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I have seen a part-time job advertised which isn't the ideal job, but it is in the ideal location. Working part-time, and then writing up the book of the thesis in the nearby University library would dovetail perfectly to create a full time working week. It would be an ideal combination of actually earning some money, whilst not giving up my academic ambitions.

I am way over-qualified, but would like this job.

The North East Man has suggested I tailor my CV by missing out my PhD, my M.Litt and one of my undergrad degrees.

Is this even feasible? What if I got an interview and was asked what I've done with my life in the last five years? If I miss out my PhD and related academic stuff, the last five years are pretty empty.

Also, if you include my middle name, or even my middle initial, a quick google throws up my PhD, conference papers, a couple of academic guest blogs, and publications. Should I miss out my middle name, too?

Suggestions?
 

---

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
Is the job in a University NEQ? (No need to answer!). In which case, the phenomenon of PhDs applying for jobs 'beneath' their skill sets is not unusual... and your circumstances are explainable...

[ 21. October 2015, 09:47: Message edited by: Ferijen ]
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
No, it's not, Ferijen. But it's close enough geographically that I could go straight from the job to the University library.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
NEQ, Are you known exclusively by the same surname? Would it be possible to use the North East Man's surname if you are less well known academically by that (or, conversely, by your maiden name if you use his name more).
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Explain this to them, it then is clear that you are not just waiting for a PhD job to come up but are aiming in a different direction.

In work we have a receptionist who works three days a week, she is a graduate and it is way below her skill level but she persuaded us that she was keen to do the job partly because she wants time to do art. She is a fine art graduate.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I use my married name all the time. I kept my maiden name as a middle name. I sometimes use the whole thing (North East Quine), mostly use just the middle initial (North E. Quine). If I want a non-gendered name (e.g. signing a public petition in the Post Office) I use N. East Quine.

If I google the whole thing (North East Quine) there's only me. If I google North E. Quine it's mostly me. There don't seem to be any other "N.East Quines" (not even me!) But there are dozens of North Quines.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I think Jengie's probably right - there's little point in disguising yourself or your achievements (especially if they can be discovered by a quick Google). Assuming that they're not obliged to pay you any more because of your qualifications, it shouldn't make any difference to them.

With any luck they'll see your honesty for what it is, and that you're just genuinely excited about the job itself.

Good luck!
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Can't you say that this part time job is an ideal fit for you as are capable of doing the work for this that and the other reasons ... ? And that for you this part time work gives you paid employment and fits around your other, entirely flexible, commitments?

Which basically tells the employer you can do the job, but have other reasons for applying for a job that you are overqualified to do. (If I was short listing, so long as you were capable of doing the job* and had a good reason for wanting a part time role, you'd probably get to interview.)

* tick all the essential and most of, if not all, the desirable requirements, which is the first bit of short listing;
* don't have any obvious drawbacks, like being past retirement age (I am not kidding, we had someone in their 70s applying for a physically very tough secondary school learning support role, she didn't make it to interview)

Before I get shouted at for ageism there are legal problems with employing someone over retirement age: particularly that they may not be covered by insurance. Physically tough means getting barged and knocked flying as you move around corridors and up and down narrow staircases at lesson changeover time with 1,000 loud and boisterous teenagers, so insurance cover is a real issue. We had people leave after a couple of days as they couldn't deal with the volume of noise and the amount of walking. Even those of us used to it found it tough coming back after the holidays.


Sandemaniac, it sounds as if you've made a good decision. Did you resolve the interview on a date you couldn't make?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I have indeed, CK. That means two in two mornings, but it's better than being in w**k! I also have an interview for the one I really want, and have accepted the severance offer conditional on getting a "no" from that job as the interview date is close to the final date for enhanced severance (it was the phrase "your department will pay..." that made my mind up... well, maybe not, but it helped!).

There is an end in sight to the shit job and arsehole boss!

Still some and out there, but it feels a lot better.

Good luck, NEQ!

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Best of luck, Sandemaniac, and keep those positive thoughts coming!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Two interviews down... Next one November 9th, which is the one I really want. After that... well, they'll be paying handsomely to get rid of me.

AG
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Interview for job I'd really like tomorrow, combining practice experience aand academic interests, with a bit of a chance to do something for Wales, and of course some money.
Have been fairly concentrated on it but having a bit of a panic wobble now.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
The very best of luck, Albertus!

AG
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Best of luck Albertus - hope you ace the interview
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Thanks, both- means a lot!
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Go For It, Albertus! Best wishes - three deep breaths and in you go.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Best wishes, Albertus, and same for yours when the time comes, Sandemaniac.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Elder Daughter has an interview today for a job that will entail working Monday-Friday, 9 to 5 (plus some travel) rather than stupid retail shifts.

appreciated for L
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
The very best of luck, L!

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
What he said ^^ - go for it!
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ophicleide16:
Sorry I don't post much- mainly lurk and read, but I feel the need to let off some steam.

I'm 24, good education, some academic publishing to my name and some high profile church music. But I can't find a fucking job- the best I've done the last few years is scratch around trying to find whatever I could, which mainly was charity work and poorly paid music.

I don't think I deserve this- I wrote a brilliant CV, but I don't even get replies for cleaning jobs. I don't know what's going wrong or why there seems to be such a stretch of bad luck, just that it's killing me and turning me into a wreck

---

What would you *like* to do? And what do you think you're qualified/skilled to do?
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Any thoughts on how to start a phone call to follow up a speculative application? I suspect that "Gis the job!" won't cut it...

In other news, my bete noire is apparently leaving careers here to go to the unfortunate Sheffield. I'm afraid I was gratified to find that I'm not the only person to think that they were a cold fish. Hopefully their successor will be a little more understanding of the emotional issues involved.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
If it's speculative face-to-face is good. Well, it's worked for me twice, albeit years ago. Get talking about the firm, the work it does, its products or services then turn it round to you and how you fit these.

All a bit obvious but get them talking to you on one level, then move it along.

Good luck!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Didn't get interview number one. I can't say as I'm hugely worried, as it would have meant a sizable pay cut, and the interviewer did not give me good impression - he would not be drawn on what the job actually involved, made me quite suspicious.

So still waiting for one, the one I really want to come, Science careers fair tomorrow...

AG
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Good luck with that.
Oddly, it can be quite a relief sometimes to get into an interview and realise that you wouldn't actually want it even if they offered it to you!
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
I agree with that relief, SS, and S I hope your next interview is more positive.

I am getting ready to start the TESOL course on Monday, but realise it won't generate much income so, anticipating a long wait before I get contacted, I've registered onto the NHS and county council banks for temp part time admin work, and I'm investigating a few other possibilities for zero hours work, all in an attempt to avoid going back into the stressful line I was in before, even though that will be more lucrative.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
How was the science fair Sandemaniac?
Good luck with the course and the job searching Daisydaisy. I'm thinking of exploring similar things myself. At the moment I'm winding down to retirement. For the last two years I did four days a week, and since September I've done two. The trouble is there isn't much for me to do ( a long story), so I've been helping out other departments that need a hand.
If they are happy to have me, I guess I should be happy to potter along doing whatever I can, but it is very boring, and only being in two days a week makes me feel a bit detached from it all.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
As you can imagine in this city there were an awful lot fo very high powered companies recruiting - the PWCs and so on of this world. However I did manage to make one useful contact, so will be in touch with them tomorrow.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Fucking fuming. Really fucking fuming.

I've just been asked to OK a reference by the person my boss dumped the job of writing it on yesterday. That was the second of November. The interview was on the 28th of October (six days prior). The request was sent on the 21st.

Jesus wept.

I suppose on the bright side it increases the chance of not getting an offer before the interview for the post I really want...

AG
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Just had a phone call to say that I've been recommended for appointment to the job I was interviewed for last week! Thank you all for your support.
 

---

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :
 
Congratulations!!

Being in Wales I am now consumed with curiosity as to what you will be doing... after all, I may want to thank you for something. Or blame you...
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Thank you. It's working on a research project at Cardiff University, looking at the policy instruments that the Welsh government has and might have.
It is technically only a recommendation to the University to appoint so until I've actually got the contract I'll be thinking 'many a slip....'But looking forward to it very much.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Congratulations, Albertus - hope there aren't any slips 'twixt cup and lip!
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Thanks!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Fingers crossed, Albertus, but that sounds cracking news.

Another interview failure here. Ah well, the worse that can happen is I get a whacking great pay-off.

AG
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Thanks, but sorry to hear that yours has been a let down again. Hope you can keep on at it!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
To be quite honest, Albertus, it feels more like an end to the bullshit is finally approaching rather than anything else.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Woo! Struggling to revise for interview, but have just been offered a visit and an informal chat with someone in a local biotech, just from dropping HR an emails saying "Why can't I get an interview?".

Blimey!

AG
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Nice one! Hope it leads you somewhere you want to be.
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Congratulations Albertus - hope you get confirmation of your new post soon.
Good luck with that lead and the interview Pandemoniac.
Hope all went well for L.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Well done Albertus, hope the rest of the recruitment requirements all fit into place.

Sandemaniac that sounds positive.
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
Good progress Albertus and Sandemaniac.

Am in the 2nd week of a really tough course. Not only do I hope I pass but I hope it is worth it and I find income-generating work as well as the inevitable voluntary work.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Didn't get the job I interviewed for, and was more upset than I thought as well, to the point where I was a total shit this morning to someone who didn't deserve it. And I have another interview within the bleedin' university. The fuss about the late reference has obviously got back to Pointy Haired Boss as he's just told me what a good one he's written, and all the stuff he's put into it that I'll have to bone up on for the interview, and that the senior post-doc will ask me a practice question about it. Apart from the stuff that I've never actually done, it's a complete waste of time because the department concerned doesn't show the panel the references until after the interview, and then only of the candidate they want to offer to (same department that the late reference was for, guess how I found out...).

On the bright side, the company visit was really interesting, and they've just advertised today the very post they were talking about as coming up, so I will be applying over the weekend.

AG
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Oh well, one step back but I hope two forward. Good luck with the new one

[ 13. November 2015, 13:52: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
What Albertus said - good luck with this one!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Just one more interview to not get and I can get out of this shithole! The paperwork is already on its way to the solicitors so this is serious.

Of course I still have to find something else to do... I think I might pass on shop work at Christmas somehow!

AG
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Well, contract has come through. Think I can stop holding my breath now! Went to see them informally yesterday and I have a good feeling about this place- starting on Monday 30th.
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Hurrah for things moving along!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Hurrah Albertus! Can you post me a used item of clothing in the hope that some luck has rubbed off on it?

On second thoughts....EWWW! Perhaps I'll pass.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Good news, Albertus.
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
Congratulations Albertus, and keeping everything crossed Sandemaniac.

I am going to submit an application at the end of the week for a job which sounds pretty ideal for me. My current job (in clinical practice) just doesn't seem to 'fit' me any more - the role has changed beyond all recognition from when I trained - and although having lovely colleagues makes it less rubbish than it could be, I'm still keen to leave. This newly-advertised post, whilst still within the NHS, has a large education component to it as well, which is much closer to my interests and skills. It's currently just advertised internally, and I'm hoping it's niche enough that most other people won't be interested, but we'll have to see. Wish me luck!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Best of British, Jack the Lass!

AG
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Thanks all for good wishes and best of luck to Jack the Lass and Sandemaniac

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Hurrah Albertus! Can you post me a used item of clothing in the hope that some luck has rubbed off on it?

On second thoughts....EWWW! Perhaps I'll pass.

AG

---

Damn, thought no-one on here knew about my sideline in selling my used, ahem, garments

[ 19. November 2015, 10:25: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, I've sorted a meeting with the CEO of a small biotech a couple of miles away. Not until mid-December, unfortunately, as he's away until then, but was lucky enough to catch him just before he left.

Not a lot other than that yet.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Good luck with the job leads Sandemaniac,and with getting the best possible redundancy package. My SiL is doing this at the moment, and is being tough about what she expects to be provided.
Enjoy the new job when it starts Albetus.
Hope the education job comes through Jack the Lass.
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Congratulations Albertus

Sandemaniac, at least you've got a way out, I'm too knackered with the current madness to put useful job applications together or call the agencies back and can see me ending up sick without anything to go to. If they give me another useless temp*, so help me, I'm walking.

Hope it all goes well with the application, Jack the Lass.

* Last week, I had a temp imposed on me and nearly walked out when I was told it was happening. Any temp/new person triples the work. Someone somewhere, namely me, has to put together an induction package, teach it, supervise it and check the work on top of the day job. Worth it in the long run if the temp proves useful. But not currently; the previous admin was in role for 6 months and was never appointed permanently because she was pretty damn useless. Sorting out the mess has been horrific. Every drawer, computer or paper file I've opened has uncovered further undone work. There was no record of equipment and I suspect something like 6 laptops walked out with people (I can't put a figure on phones) because nothing was tracked. Putting a temp in now is setting them up to fail.

For added joy last week's temp was so bad I had to redo everything she did. And I'm still catching up all and regretting the wasted time trying to train the untrainable.

There is a permanent replacement appointed, but she's currently on maternity leave for another few months!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Holy crap Curiosity, that sounds ghastly.

If I knew of anything I could do to help, I would.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
That does sound bad, CK. Hope you can get it sorted sooner rather than later.

Congratulations Albertus, and best of luck Sandemaniac and JtL.
 

---

Posted by Tukai (# 12960) on :
 
The so-called "sweetest job in the world" may console someone who has just been forced to leave their current job (Sandemaniac?). Fortunately, or unfortunately, it's mostly work from home and the "salary" is paid only in chocolate.

[ 20. November 2015, 23:39: Message edited by: Tukai ]
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
I posted here ages ago re: my job search and I still read the thread but was too discouraged to post for a long time.

Did not get the civil service post I wanted but I have now resigned from my current job and accepted another potentially v stressful IT job in the private sector - at least it will be a change!

I also have another option for a government role in a couple of months' time (low grade and low pay though).

Finally, I have an interview on Tuesday for a job I really want. It would be daunting but good. Please??
If it be your will and all that, but I am tired of second best (or just worst)...

And of course I feel inadequate and want to run away...
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
(((Lia))) So sorry you didn't get that job, but I wish you all the best (including copious crossings of various body parts) for Tuesday.

I spent this afternoon writing my personal statement for the job mentioned a few posts ago. I'll pop into work tomorrow (it's my day off) to type it up and email it prior to Tuesday's closing date. I don't have Word on my laptop, and I don't like Open Office much (plus I found it isn't brilliant with Word tables, or in fact anything much more complicated that plain text), so the only way I could type up the application form was to do it at work.

I managed to speak with the previous postholder, who was so enthusiastic about the job (she's just got a promotion to another area, which is a good reason to leave - she had nothing but good things to say about it though, which contrasted so much with the last job I nearly applied for until I spoke with the previous postholder, who basically said 'I don't want to put you off, but...'). I really really really really want this job now.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Best of luck, both of you.
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Thank you both!
And Jack - will be crossing everything I can for you, too! Time to take up yoga as a job-seeking technique

Let us know how it goes.

I am not complaining - I have 2 other job offers, after all, but neither is what I really want.

Have an assessment centre for another job I really, really want on 1st Feb, so if the one tomorrow doesn't work, that is my next "date of hope and dread".
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
The very best of luck to you all - this thread needs some good news!

Meanwhile tomorrow I have the interview for the job I don't want, and also a trip to the solicitors to sort the settlement agreement for the bribe to fuck off. I have to say that I'm feeling pretty flat as it's all out of my hands again.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
In fact I'm feeling bloody awful about it, the relief of the last few weeks and the desire to run has been replaced by foreboding. Add to that a cold that has left me quite badly spaced out, and you've got a recipe for feeling shite.

Ah well, I s'pose it will affect my interview performance and help me get the desired result. I don't think I've ever gone into an interview before knowing that I didn't want the job anymore - come out a few, yes - and I'm struggling to deal with it. Deliberately underperforming is just against all my principles.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Sorry to hear you're feeling so rubbish, S. Hope your diplomatic skills will leave the interview panel realising what they're going to be missing!

I used to wonder why interviewers quite often asked "if you were offered the job, would you take it?" - there was always a temptation to say, "no; I enjoy getting dolled up to the nines and putting myself through all this stress". With hindsight though, any interview, even for a job you don't want (or are unlikely to get) is Good Experience™.

And that your cold goes away v. soon.
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
I can think of at least one occasion when the my honest answer would have been "No" to that question.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Do tell, Jengie!

Well, it was a disaster. Halfway through the subject moved on to Home Office licences and willingness to work with animals. Given that the whole reason I applied was that the job description didn't mention it, ergo I assumed that the job would not involve it. This was not so. Even better, they'd previously advertised with a description that did include it, which I hadn't applied for as a result!

So it was a total waste of everyone's time, the other four candidates will have to be really shite for me to get an offer.

In the meantime I have been to see the solicitor and signed my birthright away for a mess of pottage (the equivalent of a year's take-home pay, tax free), and about two and a half times statutory redundancy.

I now of course need to find something else, and the quicker I do so the more of the payout I can put into the house, but it's all in my hands now and I feel so much better for that.

AG
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Basically, it was one of those occasions where they asked me how I would do something which I was not happy doing professionally. It was a type of analysis that was inappropriate in the circumstances. I had no room to say it was inappropriate and just felt that if that was indicative of what they were expecting me to do I did not want to be there.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Sandemaniac, surely the job description should have outlined exactly was involved. Time to move onwards and upwards. Glad you've got an OK deal out of them.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well you would think that, but it appears to be an alien concept in academia.

AG
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Hi all,

just to let you know that I went to the interview on Tuesday and the people were lovely, the job would be v good and the focus on professional dev was incredibly appealing.

However, I don't stand a change - they said during the interview the process is v selective and they are picky about who they choose.
I think it was their way of letting me know (gently) that I am not the right candidate but should not be too disappointed.

I will get some useful feedback but quite sad that it did not work out.
I should get the official outcome next week.

Thank you for your support and good luck to those with options coming up!


Lia
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

quote:

---

Lia: However, I don't stand a change - they said during the interview the process is v selective and they are picky about who they choose.

---

Isn't this where you say "that's very good because I'm just what you need"?
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Perhaps if you have a normal level of confidence

I am actually competent and quite confident while in professional role but tend to get v insecure in interviews - I never feel I deserve a better job than the one I have!

Maybe mental health charities should run a new campaign under the slogan: Employ depressives and they will be grateful to you, no matter how you treat them, because they always think they deserve even worse!

Lia
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
After nearly seventeen years I am about to walk out the door and down the pub.

Goodbye academia. I'll miss you. Like a hole in the head.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Don't get too pissed Sandemaniac! Hope this is the start of a whole new life.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
You and me both!

AG
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
It feels a bit weird congratulating you Sandemaniac, but I think I do - it's good to be out of a toxic environment, and I really hope that something better turns up soon for you.

My form went in last week, and acknowledgement has been received so I know they have it. It's been a long time that I've been this anxious to know if I have an interview or not. Talking with colleagues (who are right behind me and encouraged me to apply) we are erring on the side of it not being an attractive position to too many people, so I wouldn't be competing against many people, but then it occurred to me that if I was the only applicant then they might have to advertise it externally (it was only advertised internally thus far). Argh, please put me out of my misery soon
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
What JtL said, Sandemaniac - here's to a better job and a happier future!
 

---

Posted by Tukai (# 12960) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:

I used to wonder why interviewers quite often asked "if you were offered the job, would you take it?"

---

When I worked in a small developing country, many of our candidates were interviewed by phone for obvious reasons. I was at a university, as Head of School, and academic jobs were scarce, so we got applications from many other countries, some of whom looked good on paper. But past experience suggested that many would not to come to this country - most staff from overseas either left after one year (because they or their spouse) missed the comforts of "home" or they stayed at least 6 years (because they enjoyed the island lifestyle).

So the question "would you come here?" was critical, but we were not allowed to ask it explicitly, as local candidates would be insulted. Instead , we asked a question or two designed to see if they had any knowledge at all about our place (as distinct from the several dozen others they had often applied to). Even knowing what anyone could gather from the internet was a positive sign! In-depth knowledge or family connections were even more positive indicators.

But even within one country, many people are very reluctant to move residence for family reasons, and are therefore reluctant to take an offer, as this thread has revealed several times.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Indeed, Tukai - if I were single and renting I'd happily go wherever (I did once, which is how I got here, in fact), but once you start accruing things like spouses and houses...

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I'm beginning to think that people who fraudulently claim benefits actually deserve a medal for getting through the system in the first place.

Having gone down the job centre, I was told I needed to claim by phone (as I'll only be claiming NI contributions). Three phone calls and 45 minutes later, I'm told I need to go down the job centre...

FFS.

AG
 

---

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Have you filled in the forms on-line. That was the was my son was encouraged to do it. You then get an email with an appointment at the Job Centre.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
No, because they advised me to do it by phone.... having gone down to the centre itself because the web site said nothing about claiming to cover your NI... etc etc etc

AG
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
Sandemaniac, when TME was unemployed a few years ago we both found the benefits system so very frustrating and humiliating - despite several (undergraduate and postgraduate) degrees between us, and only wanting something very basic we couldn't get beyond the basics and always felt like their working assumption (with everyone, not just us) was that we were trying to fleece them. A pox on all their houses. I did have similar thoughts to you about people living on loads of benefits - how the hell did they do it?! They're obviously much cleverer than us!

I heard today that I do have an interview for the job mentioned upthread, in a couple of weeks. So any prayers, good vibes and crossed extremities much appreciated!
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Good news for you re interview. All the best for it. A couple of weeks? That puts it very close to Christmas.
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
looks like a lot has been going on while I've been ashore studying. Congrats, best wishes and happy interviewing to everyone.

After four really intense, gruelling weeks I am now officially a teacher of English to speakers of other languages (TESOL), but first I need to learn some grammar (of course) and iron out the Americanisms in my own language ( ). I am also officially looking for some part time, temp admin work to tide me over until teaching takes off because this morning I signed up with 3 local temp agencies.
 

---

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
Congratulations on getting your TEFL certificate!

I still haven't decided when and where to do mine. I need to decide before the end of the month so I can start 2016 in a more positive frame of mind professionally speaking.

On another tack, yesterday I attended a seminar on running an e-business. They reduced the price of their proper training course but I didn't take up the offer, even though it sounded like a very good opportunity. I'm wondering if I should have done.
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lothlorien:
Good news for you re interview. All the best for it. A couple of weeks? That puts it very close to Christmas.

---

Yes, just a week before. Which (if I'm successful) may delay things a few weeks, as one of my referees works at a university where staff have to take Christmas and New Year weeks off whether they want to or not, and they only take up references for the successful candidate once they've made the decision after interview. Ah well - at least I can stop flapping about whether or not I've been shortlisted, now to start preparing my presentation and thinking about potential curveball questions that may come my way!

daisydaisy, good luck and I hope that you find teaching work soon. I was a TEFL teacher for a few months many years ago, and I found this book invaluable for grammar help (my sister, who was a TEFL teacher for a couple of years not long after me, borrowed it and that was the last I saw of it - she really liked it too).
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Congratulations Daisydaisy, and good luck to you and JtL!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Indeed - well done and good luck all round!

AG
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Congratulations on getting your TEFL certificate!

I still haven't decided when and where to do mine. I need to decide before the end of the month so I can start 2016 in a more positive frame of mind professionally speaking

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
[QUOTE]
daisydaisy, good luck and I hope that you find teaching work soon. I was a TEFL teacher for a few months many years ago, and I found this book invaluable for grammar help (my sister, who was a TEFL teacher for a couple of years not long after me, borrowed it and that was the last I saw of it - she really liked it too).

---

I wish you the best interview ever, and a calm Christmas/New Year while you wait to hear.

Yes, Practial English Usage is very useful, and formed part of my research each time I taught grammar (rather than function) - I'll never know why I ever thought I could teach something that I don't know, but at my interview for the course I was assured that it wouldn't be a problem So now I'll be doing an online grammar course so that I have a chance of being a step ahead of my students!
 

---

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
My students just got used to me telling them "just take my word for it today that this is correct - I'll tell you next time *why* it's correct". They couldn't believe that we are not taught English grammar - having spent hours of their childhoods having to learn grammar themselves (this was in Romania, over 20 years ago). I would go home after lessons, read up in Swan and learn something myself!

I think we all knew I wasn't that great a teacher, but they were so thrilled to have a native speaker teaching them that they forgave me most things!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Well, progress of a sort. Telephone interview the day after tomorrow at 9am, with a local biotech company. Presumably this will be a first part of the process, how far I'll get I don't know as it's quite a junior role that I'd really be wanting for experience more than anything else, but it's a start. Haven't had a real interview outside of the u********y since at least 2012.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
As ever, best of luck Sandemaniac.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Yes indeed
 

---

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
sandemaniac - I'll be thinking of you tomorrow morning, hope it goes well.

I have just applied for a contract/freelance job using my old skills, not my new TESOL ones. I think it is a far safer way to go, if they'll have me. It's fairly local (rare in my line which tends to be in the smoke, or further) and my CV matches the job description without any tweaks at all.
 

---

Posted by geroff (# 3882) on :
 
Yes, good luck Sandy.

I have just started a support thread for starting a new job - lets hope you will join me there soon!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
You and me both!

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and 'phone interview out of the way. Seemed to go OK, who knows really, but should hear whether I've got in for a face-to-face interview by "early next week". Next week could be quite busy as I've got the meeting with the CEO of a local biotech as well, high hopes of that one as he's asked me to come over. We shall see...

AG
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
And I didn't get the job I interviewed for in Coventry 2 weeks ago and which I really wanted.

It was expected but I still hoped I would be surprised, so finding really hard to absorb yet another failure.

Sitting at my desk and struggling not to cry...but of course I will be back on an even keel soon.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Sorry to hear that Lia - better luck next time.

Sandemaniac - glad to hear it went well, and the idea of them contacting you sounds promising.


 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
What a bugger, Lia. It doesn't get easier, does it?

It's not quite like that piglet - I phoned him first, and he said "Oh hello, Sandemaniac,come over and talk about it! - but that still sounds pretty positive to me.

AG
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Just keep holding on to those positive thoughts!
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :