Thread: Rev. BBC2 Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
Nobody else has started a thread on the new series yet, so I thought I might as well. Read all about it

There are some new characters in this series including the Area Dean, Diocesan Secretary and a local Immam.

I'm usually out on Monday evenings, but I'll be setting up my electric television device to record the series. I'm hoping this series is as good as the first two.
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
PVR already scheduled..
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
3 mins to Rev series 3 starting...
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
As Java Chat is still unsafe to run - Twitter has hashtag #rev...
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
On air - and Alex's waters have broken..
 

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Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :
 
Hmm, not very impressed by the first episode. Far too predictable.
 

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Posted by Jante (# 9163) on :
 
I didn't take to the two new characters!
 

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Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
What was the Diocesan Secretary all about? I'm really not sure where she's supposed to fit in. In my experience, Diocesn Secretaries have no input at all in the day to day running of parishes. They rarely even leave their office!
 

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Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jante:
I didn't take to the two new characters!

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I don't think we're meant to.
 

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Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :
 
A brilliant start to the series.

Though my prediction (made at the end of the last series) that we would chart Alex's pregnancy followed by the pathos of a miscarriage got blown out of the water in the first scene.

Top gag had to be the one about the anglican hierarchy:

"So, how does it work?"

"It doesn't."


 

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Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
The look of horror on the archdeacon's face as Alex gave birth in the back of the taxi was priceless!
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Don't forget that Miles Jupp is a clergy son - in his case URC.

So are David Tennant (CofS Moderator of General Assembly) and Hugh Dennis (CofE - a Bishop no less!)

Sadly my own son works backstage, not on it.

[ 25. March 2014, 15:00: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

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Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
Loved Colin's fundraising technique
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Absolutely Matt Black . No one could accuse him of burying his Talent .
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I thought it was good. The archdeacon being told to get the tube was excellent. Not to mention his delivery of the baby.

OK, it was stretching a little to include the diocesan secretary and area dean, but then it is stretching it that the archdeacon gets so involved. It is just about more characters, more people.

The problem is, it is so hyped, it is hard to live up to that. I am not sure it should - it should just surprise. I hope it does.
 

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Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :
 
The first few minutes were wonderful, sort of slapstick, as the archdeacon struggled with her dilation and the baby's head emerging - 'ghastly'!

It quietened down a bit then, but still very good; the imam was well played by the actor.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Don't forget that Miles Jupp is a clergy son - in his case URC.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jante:
I didn't take to the two new characters!

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quote:

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Originally posted by balaam:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jante:
I didn't take to the two new characters!

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But they are so real. I'm sure I've met them both, but not both at the same time.

Like all good comedy caricatures they are exagerated, but not by much.

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Both actresses were in Getting On, which was a series I very much enjoyed. It had a horrible credibility.
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I also discovered that Vikki Pepperdine was a contemporary of mine at university. I may well have met her there.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Wonderful as always, though I have a niggling worry that somebody may not realise that an Archdeacon outranks an Area Dean.
 

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Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
I loved it. I was a bit worried about whether it would all go rather bleak with Alex either losing the baby or getting PND or other Very Bad Things, so I'm glad it hasn't gone there.

The hierarchy joke made me shout "Yes!" at the telly - to my shame despite decades in the CofE I had no idea about how you know the difference between a rector and a vicar.

And I loved Area Dean & Diocesan Sec. All the talk about "How are we going to BE church?" as a cover for cutting. I have a feeling the archdeacon is going to end up rescuing Adam at some point....
 

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Posted by QLib (# 43) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:
Wonderful as always, though I have a niggling worry that somebody may not realise that an Archdeacon outranks an Area Dean.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
And I loved Area Dean & Diocesan Sec. All the talk about "How are we going to BE church?" as a cover for cutting. I have a feeling the archdeacon is going to end up rescuing Adam at some point....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
For me the best line was Yusuf's: "I love your churches. So much space!"

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quote:

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

The problem is, it is so hyped, it is hard to live up to that. I am not sure it should - it should just surprise. I hope it does.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Matt Black:
Spoiler alert
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.I understand tonight they are tackling the equal marriage in the church issue...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Panda:
From what I've read, the TV ratings are actually pretty good. Unless you mean church attendance ratings; then yes, they are low...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kitten:
Thank God I'm not sensible

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tulfes:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kitten:
Thank God I'm not sensible

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Sorry, I meant exhausted and insensible!

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But, but, surely that is what Sky Plus (or any other brand-named equivelent is for?
 

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Posted by Arrietty (# 45) on :
 
I so recognised the Area Dean and Diocesan Secretary that I was convinced they must be based on people I know, though it's hard to work out how that would be

Diocesan Secs involving themselves in the outworking of policy isn't completely unheard of, depends on the personalities involved. I think Adam's improvisation of an impressive sounding catchphrase to cover up his failures rings a bell with a lot of clergy - many dioceses now seem to be pushing parishes to participate in various programmes for growth which consist mainly of lists of impressive sounding catchphrases!
 

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Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Arrietty:
... - many dioceses now seem to be pushing parishes to participate in various programmes for growth which consist mainly of lists of impressive sounding catchphrases!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tulfes:

quote:

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Originally posted by Panda:
From what I've read, the TV ratings are actually pretty good. Unless you mean church attendance ratings; then yes, they are low...

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10pm on BBC2 on a Monday night is hardly a top rated spot. Sensible people will be in their beds.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Enoch:
[QB]So different, so very different from the home life of so many other large institutional organisations.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:

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Originally posted by Arrietty:
... - many dioceses now seem to be pushing parishes to participate in various programmes for growth which consist mainly of lists of impressive sounding catchphrases!

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So different, so very different from the home life of so many other large institutional organisations.

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Oh Lordy! We have done Going for Growth, Funding the Vision and now Natural Church Development!
Load of corporate-speak bollocks the lot of it!
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
The URC had "Catch the Vision" and now "Vision 20/20".
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
On air.
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
Having to work around the regs...
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
WHat an unfortunate TLA is IED...
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
Oh dear God... having to skirt ever so close like that...
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
My wife (who is out at the moment) will be DELIGHTED at the reference to Hungarian palincka from Kecskemet - she loves the stuff.

If only they'd said "Unicum" instead - now THAT'S an acquired taste (which I haven't acquired). But it is a registered trade mark so I suppose they couldn't use it.
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Doing same-sex blessings is like parking on a double-yellow line - fine so long as you don't get caught? Loved it!

Now how does that apply to Baptists?
 

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Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
Well that is going to piss off more people than the raving evo in season 1.

Very Funny.

IED lol.

It all so true and funny and painful.
 

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Posted by Not (# 2166) on :
 
that walked a painfully real line between laughter and tears...

And great lines

" filly filly uppy uppy" (Archdeacon, handing over the dreaded fund-raising thermometer)

"first you'll be suspended, then you'll be defrocked, then you'll be killed by one of the Bishop's team of assassins in unmarked cars" (what apparently happens if you do a gay wedding)

"eat it! eat it in the name of church unity" (disposal of illegal liturgical evidence)
 

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Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Pyx_e:
It all so true and funny and painful.

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Indeed so. Clearly written with the benefit of inside knowledge. Including the collusion in the hierarchy. And the final scene.

And the timing of this episode was impeccable - too fortuitous to be accidental.
 

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Posted by Arrietty (# 45) on :
 
"Archdeacon, ya big church knob, how's tricks?"

I do so wish I'd said that ...
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Not:

"eat it! eat it in the name of church unity" (disposal of illegal liturgical evidence)

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One of the writers is a lurker.
 

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Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on :
 
The couple was cute. (Much better looking than the couples in all the Episcopal Church gay weddings I've attended.)
 

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Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
A very good episode, the final scene brought a lump to my throat
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
That was so good. Showing the problems of the Anglican position "You are not married" "yes we are" "well not here", as well as the hypocrisy with the archdeacon being gay.

But it also showed the pastoral problems of this position. "So God doesn't approve of us" "well God does, its just that the church doesn't". And the final scene where - as so often - Adam does the right thing irrespective of the consequences.
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Kitten:
A very good episode, the final scene brought a lump to my throat

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kitten:
A very good episode, the final scene brought a lump to my throat

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ditto

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tulfes:

quote:

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Originally posted by Matt Black:

.I understand tonight they are tackling the equal marriage in the church issue...

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Yawn. No wonder ratings are so low.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Doing same-sex blessings is like parking on a double-yellow line - fine so long as you don't get caught? Loved it!

Now how does that apply to Baptists?

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quote:

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Originally posted by tessaB:
[QUOTE]Oh Lordy! We have done Going for Growth, Funding the Vision and now Natural Church Development! Load of corporate-speak bollocks the lot of it!

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quote:

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Originally posted by StevHep:
I expect a first century version of Rev would have shown Jesus marrying Herod and Herodias over the curmudgeonly objections of John the Baptist. Except, of course, Jesus would have done no such thing because powerful interpersonal attractions are not the most important thing in the universe. Sometimes the best thing you can do for a person is to say No.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
That was so good. Showing the problems of the Anglican position "You are not married" "yes we are" "well not here", as well as the hypocrisy with the archdeacon being gay.

But it also showed the pastoral problems of this position. "So God doesn't approve of us" "well God does, its just that the church doesn't". And the final scene where - as so often - Adam does the right thing irrespective of the consequences.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chorister:
When Nigel got so uptight about the gay wedding, I couldn't help feeling that Series 4 might have the Archdeacon and Nigel getting it together and - finally - getting married. Watch Series 4 and see if I'm right!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chorister:
When Nigel got so uptight about the gay wedding, I couldn't help feeling that Series 4 might have the Archdeacon and Nigel getting it together and - finally - getting married. Watch Series 4 and see if I'm right!

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My theory is that "Cherry", with whom Nigel claims to be in a relationship, is in fact a trans woman. I dearly hope we meet her before the series ends.
 

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Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cottontail:

quote:

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Originally posted by Chorister:
When Nigel got so uptight about the gay wedding, I couldn't help feeling that Series 4 might have the Archdeacon and Nigel getting it together and - finally - getting married. Watch Series 4 and see if I'm right!

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My theory is that "Cherry", with whom Nigel claims to be in a relationship, is in fact a trans woman. I dearly hope we meet her before the series ends.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Penny S:
[I'm a bit worried about the diocesan ladies double act. Is the frequency of gays in the CofE that high?

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Remember that this is the Diocese of London!!!
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
True, funny, and painful indeed - especially for us, as we're a UPA parish (albeit not in London) with a nice shiny new mosque nearby, and our very own home-grown versions of Nigel and Colin.....

.....and, although we're not under threat from egregious Area Deans and Diocesan Secretaries (yet!), a neighbouring parish is..............

Ian J.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cottontail:
My theory is that "Cherry", with whom Nigel claims to be in a relationship, is in fact a trans woman. I dearly hope we meet her before the series ends.

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We never got to meet Mrs Mannering in all those wonderful years of 'Dad's Army'

(not sure if my comparison is all that watertight)
 

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Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :
 
I did spot, though, that when the Archdeacon demanded to see the order of service used, and Adam said he didn't have one, he used 'this', pointing to a service book - that was actually the green CW book, Pastoral Services - which is the weddings are, not the Eucharists...
 

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Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
Series 1 brilliant esp Vivian in the Supermarket!. Series 2 ok. Series 3 - stories too "right on" for words. Passed its sell by date.

Put it and us out of our misery - unless it really does represent urban parish life (not in this neck of the woods), in which case the state church is truly doomed.
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
in which case the state church is truly doomed.

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Good job we have an established church then, and not a state church.
 

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Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
Ep2 about to air.
 

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Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
There were spoilers...so I edited.

[ 07. April 2014, 21:31: Message edited by: Jemima the 9th ]
 

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Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 
very disappointed in tonights episode
 

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Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
This is the first episode I've seen since the first series. Miserable, or what!
 

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Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
Ditto: from the dizzy heights of last week to the cringeworthy depths of this week
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Yes, I was disappointed too. I thought that both Mick and Adoha were included in ways that suggested "we have to bring them in" and didn't contribute to the plot, while the end of the litter-pick was pure slapstick end-of-the-pier stuff.

I do like the prayers which always have an edge of authenticity to them. And where had the Miles Jupp character been for two mysterious days?

But the whole episode was a bit formulaic.
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Realistic, though.
 

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Posted by not entirely me (# 17637) on :
 
It was so sad. If this is the final series they might close the church at the end. Maybe Nigel's got a secret plan for gaining funds and that's what he was off doing.
Cherry is probably a pet.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
I've only one thing to say about last night's episode and that is......



Don't want to put spoilers in for anyone one who's not seen it yet .
Best yet as far we were concerned.
 

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Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
Did we watch the same thing?
 

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Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
Am I the only person who is beginning to find Rev is losing touch with credibility. A pity, as the previous series were good. Perhaps they have reached the point where they've run out of plots.
 

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Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :
 
I felt last night's episode was verging on that Mike Leigh-ish mode of being cruel to all the characters. I never find the comedy of embarrassment very funny, but it's increasingly grating that the script allows Adam no competence at all. In fact, none of the characters came out of it very well. Dark is one thing, but this felt, well, nasty.

Maybe it is the need to have plots that is spoiling it -- I often find plot works against comedies. Porridge is a fantastic example of a comedy that was consistently funny partly because almost nothing ever happened.

[ 08. April 2014, 17:57: Message edited by: Niminypiminy ]
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
The thing is, I don't think it was that unrealistic (in the normal terms). The interesting thing is that the church is situated on the edge of the city and the more impoverished east end. Similarly, Adam and Alex are spread between the church and the more high-flying world of business.

The thing is, in such a place, a well known artist might well be drawn into the social circle. It is Damien Hurst area.

I think, in essence, this is the core of the tension that Adam feels. He is in touch with the wealth of the city, and yet knows that there is also poverty because that is so much of where he works.

Not as good as last week, but I think it still made a good point.
 

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Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :
 
I agree that the situation was not so incredibly far-fetched. What I felt was upsetting was the way the characters were made to deal with it.

The bit where Colin makes the baby drink from a miniature of some kind of spirits -- having told her to shut the fuck up. That was horrible, and it wasn't followed up at all. Or making Mick turn into a fake trans-sexual prostitute. What did that gain in comedic terms? Why was Adam's apology at the end so mealy-mouthed? It's those kind of things that not only didn't I find funny, but that seemed pointlessly nasty towards the characters themselves.
 

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Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
I thought it was brilliant television. Astutely observed. Hard to watch because so real.

Do agree about Mick and Adoha - but I've always thought, since the first series, they were weak, formulaic sitcom 'characters' with no real depth of character and don't really add anything.
 

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Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
in which case the state church is truly doomed.

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Good job we have an established church then, and not a state church.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gwalchmai:

As for a legal aid firm having a "client lunch", that is just surreal.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
in which case the state church is truly doomed.

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Good job we have an established church then, and not a state church.

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Interchangeable terms - established = state

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
in which case the state church is truly doomed.

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Good job we have an established church then, and not a state church.

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Interchangeable terms - established = state

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No they aren't. Germany, Sweden and Norway have a state church and they pay state taxes.

England and Scotland have churches 'by law established'.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
And where had the Miles Jupp character been for two mysterious days?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
And wouldn't they actually use childcare rather than have their baby in her pushchair all day? (Not to mention being given spirits by Colin, which I can't bring myself to find funny)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I liked it. It was depressing, sure, and the sexual tension between Adam and Ellie had been obvious since the beginning. I didn't think that the car park scene was particularly slapstick; I think that misses the point completely.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rolyn:

Newly divorced despondent Ellie was triggered into showing true mettle , (as so often a woman can out perform a man in those type of situations).

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quote:

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Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
in which case the state church is truly doomed.

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Good job we have an established church then, and not a state church.

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Interchangeable terms - established = state

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No they aren't. Germany, Sweden and Norway have a state church and they pay state taxes.

England and Scotland have churches 'by law established'.

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Who establishes the law - why, the state.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Frankly My Dear:
Oh dear. That last one was the first duff episode of the show's entire history. Adam pushing over and breaking the artwork at the end struck a massive false note - He is simply not that petulant and foolish a person, even in the midst of his guilt-trip, to go quite that far, and do something with such obviously perillous consequences.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Frankly My Dear:
Oh dear. That last one was the first duff episode of the show's entire history. Adam pushing over and breaking the artwork at the end struck a massive false note - He is simply not that petulant and foolish a person, even in the midst of his guilt-trip, to go quite that far, and do something with such obviously perilous consequences.

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I am thinking back to the party at the end of series 1 (one of the best episodes of drama I have ever seen), and I reckon that Adam would be that petulant, if he is pushed - and he was being pushed, from all sides for all sorts of reasons.

And welcome FMD.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
I quite understand the thinking that says Adam climbing on to the rostrum and pushing the statue over was OTT .
Yet what followed had me laughing to tears, which is unusual for me at the best of times . It was what someone said up-thread about the 'hypersensitivity over guilt' that made the whole scene work . Adam quickly put 2 and 2 together and came up with about 22 plus . Making out his Church had been desecrated , whereas the real desecration was going on in his head.

The look on the Archdeacon's face, Nigel realising the 60k had clearly gone west . Best of all Colin retrieving the head off the broken statue, with his childlike expression of wanting to please and protect Adam , saying -- it's alright Vicarage it's not your face on it.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
OK, I'm coming out as a Rev obsessive .
I watched the *marmite* episode again last night.

Maybe the reason it missed to a proportion of viewers was that if the sexual tension theme didn't come through from early on , then bits like Mick coming to the door dressed as 'Sonata' just looked plain silly.

Returning to the end scene . It wasn't really only Colin , but all Adam's friends and associates gently trying to tell him he'd been a dick . Which I guess is what friends and associates are for when it come to it.

This Rev fan now eagerly awaits next Monday's episode . Although I doubt it is Hollander's intention to turn the show into a kind of Rev. Street. If , as rumour has it, there will be no more when this series ends ? I suppose we'll just have to accept it.


[ 12. April 2014, 10:03: Message edited by: rolyn ]
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
As I understood it, there were no more planned. That means there may or may not be another series - and it might depend on actors availability.
 

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Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
I just watched this episode on i-player. It seems to be a comedy on male dis-empowerment - I haven't seen many of these, so perhaps that's very much a statement of the obvious. It's hard to imagine Adam throwing a lot of litter into that car and not getting his head kicked in - but easier to imagine a woman getting away with it. And it would be hard to imagine Adam's wife asking him a plaintive 'darling, do you not find me attractive any more?' and him saying 'not really - but why don't you go after that slightly mad guy on the street who just made a sexually aggressive and rather disturbing pass at you; he'll sort you out' - followed shortly by a cheering rapprochement where he says 'sorry I've been a bit off dear - hard day' and she falls gratefully into his arms with a loving smile. Whereas the comedy works just about, the way round it is - at least, it is not deeply incongruous.

This could all be me doing what Adam does at the end - reading his own problems into a piece of art which is not about him at all...
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
I'm surprised to see several people who didn't like Monday's episode, to me it came across as the most painfully real so far. Several of the storylines have had me thinking 'well, I suppose it could happen in London', but the personal relationships I've seen played out this week are real all over the country, in rural as well as inner city situations. Sadly.

Perhaps people are expecting it to be a laugh-a-minute comedy, whereas it's really a poignant look at life, rather in the vein of 'Roger and Val have just got in'.
 

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Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chorister:
Perhaps people are expecting it to be a laugh-a-minute comedy, whereas it's really a poignant look at life, rather in the vein of 'Roger and Val have just got in'.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:
Lovely to see you back, Cartmel Veteran. You've been missed.

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Thankyouverymuch
 

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Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
Likewise . Also liked the episode and, in context, it raised in a funny way my experience of the previous week's one.
 

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Posted by Felafool (# 270) on :
 
Last night's episode was IMHO the most powerful, most true to life, of a great programme series. I want all the ordinamds I'm responsible for to watch it, and I think this should be compulsory viewing for anyone training for ministry of any sort, and possibly compulsory viewing for everyone in the church!
There but for the grace of God go I. In fact, sometimes even despite the grace of God, there go I.
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Ow. That was painfully good. The topic of forgiveness - needed and given - and the lack of forgiveness from people who should know better.

The end, where clearly Adam and Colins dog were the only ones who could find forgiveness for him, was touching. There is humour throughout, but it is the dark comedy of recognition.

As I said to someone on twitter, and is even more emphasised by this episode, the series is about Adam being a Christian, despite all the stuff around him, and in him. Despite the church, despite his own failings, despite other well-meaning sorts, Adam manages, usually, to show the gritty reality of God.
 

---

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :
 
I liked this week's episode too - and I guess the previous one, that quite a few people didn't like so much (including me) was needed to set this one up. Worth it though.
 

---

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Another great episode which was, again, even in Creamtealand (rural idyll?!) very true to life. These issues really happen in parishes (although they don't usually all happen at once in the same parish!).
 

---

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
The Archbishop of Canterbury has poured cold water on it in the new Radio Times - pointing out that there are lots of growing churches planting new churches because they are full to bursting.

It is almost a repeat pf his gaffe on Radio 4 which said that where there is a good vicar there is a growing church.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I think the ABC has made a real blunder by being critical of the show as it represents real life. I think, in my experience, it does represent many aspects of clerical life. Yes, it is a caricature, but that is the nature of drama over documentary.

He would have done a whole lot better to accept that it does reflect the work that many hard working clergy do. Rather than pretend that everything is fine in many places.

I think it fails to represent the CofE in that Adam is far more approachable, reasonable, and spiritually minded than many clergy I have known.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Not the belly laughs of last week , dealing as it did with a different and difficult topic . It contained a salutary tale to anyone addicted to hard porn believing it can't possibly lead to any harm.
Colin was used as the bluntest of instruments as often is his role .

I felt the main comedy lines went to Alex , esp. when Adam tried to claim that kissing Ellie was an 'accident'.

A little more revealed on the mystery of Nigel's girlfriend maybe ? Not sure as to the authenticity of that photo of the two of them.
 

---

Posted by Tyler Durden (# 2996) on :
 
The best line/exchange was surely:

Colin: Are you a paedo too? Did you meet him at paedo club?
Adam: There's no such thing as paedo club.
Colin: The first rule of paedo club is 'You don't talk about paedo club'.
 

---

Posted by Jante (# 9163) on :
 
I thought the best line went to Nigel- "Its God that does the forgiving not you Adam" !
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Powerful stuff, and very close indeed to home.....

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on :
 
'Its God's job to forgive not yours....'

Its the killer line.

You can see the Clergy Advisors at work here as this is so true to life. Its a Pastoral Situation which must be increasingly common.

Such a good episode echoing the Gospels. 'Spot the unforgiving servants ......'. And of course, the point is that, given this situation, it could easily be us.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I do think Alex's line near the end is incredibly deep "I am also aware of how little we have seen of each other lately, so I think the best thing might be to see more of each other not less".

It just struck me that there is something divine in this: the answer to a problem like this, where forgiveness is needed, is not to get further away, but to get nearer.

Gods answer to our sin was not to get further away, but to come nearer. This should have been the answer for the sex offender - not to distance oneself, but to spend more time together.
 

---

Posted by not entirely me (# 17637) on :
 
"Don't tread on my vicar!"

This whole episode was gold. Sad, real and with some warmth.
 

---

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :
 
I couldn't quite buy Colin being on the PCC, but I suppose he's a better choice than Mick and they had to have someone.

But other than that - what everyone else said. Our congregation will actually be in a similar position in a couple of years time when a particular individual is released from prison ... will be interesting to see what happens then.
 

---

Posted by Cartmel Veteran (# 7049) on :
 
My only real problem with the show this week is that Adam never stands up to Colin. He let Colin chase the would-be treasurer off at the end. In most episodes Adam validates Colin's behaviour by his inaction.
 

---

Posted by Dormouse (# 5954) on :
 
I think I agree with you here Cartmel Veteran...sometimes Adam lets himself be walked over just a tad too much to be believable. Having said that, I found this to be an incredibly moving episode.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Hmm. I think he chooses his battles. He does sometimes stand up to people. But there is no point in trying to argue with Colin. Adam tolerates him, because challenging him throws up too many issues.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cartmel Veteran:
My only real problem with the show this week is that Adam never stands up to Colin.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Hmm. I think he chooses his battles. He does sometimes stand up to people. But there is no point in trying to argue with Colin. Adam tolerates him, because challenging him throws up too many issues.

---

The problem with Adam (or anyone else) taking that approach is that by doing so you give tacit approval to the offensive behaviour. By not standing up to Colin this week, it looked like Adam approved of running that bloke off church grounds.

I've seen plenty of this in the real world. Someone says something stupid to vicar, vicar remains silent, and later you hear "the vicar agrees with me when I say..."

I know that's part of what makes the show what it is, and Adam what he is. And so it doesn't so much annoy me on TV as when people do it in the real world.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
And Adam also gets to snog Lucy Liemann and Olivia Coleman.

What I would give for that......
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Adam's brief intimacy with Ellie did say a lot about vicars who fall off the fidelity wagon .
I should imagine it's a very difficult line to toe for vicars who have regular contact with vulnerable folk.
 

---

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
Adam's brief intimacy with Ellie did say a lot about vicars who fall off the fidelity wagon .
I should imagine it's a very difficult line to toe for vicars who have regular contact with vulnerable folk.

---

Not really, one of little known the perks of ordination is sex-pot partners who keep us satiated.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
I'm comforted to learn that .
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
You know this business about David Cameron saying Britain is a Christian country? I really hope (though I doubt) he means Britain is a lot like Rev. You know, sweary, people being crap but trying to be better, and sometimes the grace of God seems to break in.
 

---

Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
Who's watching?
 

---

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
I am. Have only seen one episode previously (the one with the statue) and been unimpressed but giving it another go as I'm sure I'm missing something.
 

---

Posted by Miss Madrigal (# 15528) on :
 
There are mornings when I would appreciate the officiant taking Archdeacon Robert's approach to the liturgy.
 

---

Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :
 
I'm watching. Think it is quite a sad episode this week.
 

---

Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :
 
What was the beautiful piece of music that was being played as Adam was walking down the street with the cross?
 

---

Posted by Miss Madrigal (# 15528) on :
 
Nodded sadly as the bishop washed his hands.
 

---

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
I still think I'm missing something... Is it trying to say clergy often feel as though they're walking the way of the cross in an exact way like that?

Nen - feeling obtuse.
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
They were a bit heavy handed with the imagery (Colin denying Adam 3 times before the car alarm went off) but it was still wonderful. And they made me cry, the buggers.

I missed the critical bit with Liam Neeson on the hill, cos the baby woke up!
 

---

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
Please explain to me why it was wonderful...
 

---

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Auntie Doris:
What was the beautiful piece of music that was being played as Adam was walking down the street with the cross?

---

Pie Jesu from Faures "Requiem"
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Gobsmacked.
 

---

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :
 
Loved it. It's all a bit in the wrong order - but stripping the altar and leaving the church in darkness and silence at the end... perfect.

Are we in for a happy ending do you think?
 

---

Posted by Miss Madrigal (# 15528) on :
 
Nenya, there's a whole heap of back story coming together which makes tonight's story so wonderful. Adam Smallbone had been beset on all sides by the hierarchy of the church, his congregation, his fellow clergy and his own failings. Tonight he reached the bedrock of his faith. I've never been in the same place as that character, but I recognise the feeling. To get that from a regular series broadcast on national television is indeed a wonder.
 

---

Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
I found it very moving and was fighting back the tears
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Nenya - I find it wonderful as a series because it rings very true with my (non clergy person) experience of church. The people who sweep in asking about how we're going to "BE church" as a cover for cutting - I might have mentioned that before. The endless initiatives. The people who aren't perfect - in fact they're a bit rubbish but they try to be better. The prayers. The way Adam tried to justify his behaviour. Adam & Alex's relationship seems fairly real to me. Having to get on with people in the church who drive you a bit crazy.

Not all of it makes me laugh, but a lot of it is familiar. And the sometimes desperate hanging on to a dwindling faith, with all the doubts.

Er, perhaps I read more into it than is really there!

[Sorry I cross posted with lots of people!]

[ 21. April 2014, 21:45: Message edited by: Jemima the 9th ]
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
No I don't think there'll be a happy ending - at least I think St Saviour's will close.
 

---

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
Thanks, MissM and Jemima.

I'll just head for bed, I think.

Edited as some cross-posting.

[ 21. April 2014, 21:48: Message edited by: Nenya ]
 

---

Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :
 
*sniff*

Continued when, though? Are the rumours of a film true?
 

---

Posted by tessaB (# 8533) on :
 
I could totally get behind a God who looks like Liam Neeson.
 

---

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
That was genuinely one of the best 30 mins of television I've seen for a very long time.
 

---

Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Panda:
*sniff*

Continued when, though? Are the rumours of a film true?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Panda:
*sniff*

Continued when, though? Are the rumours of a film true?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by betjemaniac:
That was genuinely one of the best 30 mins of television I've seen for a very long time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Not really, one of little known the perks of ordination is sex-pot partners who keep us satiated.

---

I didn't realise it was an official role I had in my parish. I shall have to put "sex-pot partner" on my business card now.

[ 21. April 2014, 22:59: Message edited by: Cartmel Veteran ]
 

---

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chorister:
Another great episode which was, again, even in Creamtealand (rural idyll?!) very true to life. These issues really happen in parishes (although they don't usually all happen at once in the same parish!).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

It's becoming for rather a caricature with its causes and inability to address some serious issues (pastoral irresponsibility particularly).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kitten:
I found it very moving and was fighting back the tears

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
I couldn't quite buy Colin being on the PCC, but I suppose he's a better choice than Mick and they had to have someone.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amika:
I didn't like the 'meeting with God' part, not least because 'God' initially spouted a series of trite sayings....... the Archdeacon, definitely my favourite character. I don't see him as a 'baddie', but more of an ambivalent character, and we're never quite sure whether he's on Adam's side or not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:


What also struck me is that, throughout, we have assumed that somehow the church would be saved. I mean, it is an important community, doing some good work. The shocker is that the church has not survived. However good and important the work is, the church has closed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Panda:
Alrighty! I'd miscounted and thought we were at the end.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

Yes, I suspect that there will be something more next week. While I don't think it is the end of the church, I think it does serve as an ending, however temporary.


Yes .... assuming this week was the Passion, next week maybe the Resurrection?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by balaam:
Nigel or Ellie as Judas?

---

Nigel.

Ellie is the other, worldly Mary.

[ 22. April 2014, 20:38: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]
 

---

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
Don't forget the archdeacon. Who was he? Herod or Caiaphus?
 

---

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
I know this sounds daft but: the Holy Spirit, the advocate.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Hmm....he certainly seems to be more supportive to Adam than in earlier episodes.....

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by iamchristianhearmeroar (# 15483) on :
 
My gleam of hope is this: the church is closed, but for what? Demolition and sale of the land, or renewal of the wiring? Why put up those temporary lights if you're just going to pull the whole thing down...
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Conversion into accommodation for the homeless (e.g. Colin), with community facilities, and a smaller, better-designed worship area for the parish congregation? Not likely - far too imaginative for the C of E....or is it??

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
I'm saying nothing. Yet.


Meanwhile, Pyx_e gets it.

[ 22. April 2014, 21:24: Message edited by: Chorister ]
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I rather suspect that Chorister's mind is moving on a higher plane than mine!



Ian J.
 

---

Posted by ginaceltia (# 17312) on :
 
whose knocking on the door?

and why are there two Katies in next week's cast listings
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Welcome to The Ship btw, Ginaceltia.

Firenze
Heaven Host
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
There have been two Katies in the cast listings / credits throughout the series - both with the surname Cruz. I've been assuming that, TV filming not being an ideal environment for very small children, identical twins are being used to play 10-month old Katie, thereby decreasing the amount of time each baby has to spend on set in the role.

[ 22. April 2014, 23:36: Message edited by: Zoey ]
 

---

Posted by Arrietty (# 45) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I know this sounds daft but: the Holy Spirit, the advocate.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I know this sounds daft but: the Holy Spirit, the advocate.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jolly Jape:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I know this sounds daft but: the Holy Spirit, the advocate.

---

I have the strange feeling that Robert will turn out to be the hero of the series.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Did anyone notice the young chap who asked Adam if he needed a hand with the cross? Not quite Simon of Cyrene.......

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jolly Jape:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I know this sounds daft but: the Holy Spirit, the advocate.

---

Not strange at all, P, spot on.

I have the strange feeling that Robert will turn out to be the hero of the series.

---

Me too. And I might have said so 4 pages ago. Not that I'm smug or anything. Oh no. Not a bit of it. I can't see what Chorister can see though...

The latest to add to the list of Things Which Are Great About Rev (apart from Liam Neeson as God) is the educational value. I only wish I'd known about "How to complain about a clergyperson" many years ago.
 

---

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
The latest to add to the list of Things Which Are Great About Rev (apart from Liam Neeson as God) is the educational value. I only wish I'd known about "How to complain about a clergyperson" many years ago.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
The latest to add to the list of Things Which Are Great About Rev (apart from Liam Neeson as God) is the educational value. I only wish I'd known about "How to complain about a clergyperson" many years ago.

---

Article 70, or whatever it was, might need a new line at the end: "NB the complainee may not be mollified just because you have technically followed all the correct procedures."

---

...but following the correct proceedure would be a goodsstart, not to mention a pleasant change.
 

---

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :
 
Sorry, Jt9, didn't spot that.
 

---

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Don't read too much into me 'spotting something'. It's probably nothing significant. But then again...
 

---

Posted by Karl Kroenen (# 16822) on :
 
He was betrayed by Judas (Nigel) by means of a kiss (Ellis). Robert conducted the trial. Colin denied him 3 X before the 'Massive Cock' crowed. Herod (Bishop) washed his hands of him. The young fella offered to carry the cross...I've just watched it again and picked up half a dozen things I missed the first time. Still leaves me questioning the significance of other bits - for example why did the Bishop seem hungover? There must be some relevance to that surely? Other bits and pieces also have left me wondering if I've missed something.....I can't wait until next week.
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
Sorry, Jt9, didn't spot that.

---

Ha! Don't be daft. I was just showing off.

Yes, why did the Bishop have a headache? The way he flinched at the light made it look more like a migraine to me (as a sufferer). Or perhaps I'm just reading meaning into everything now.....

Never have I looked forward to telly so much as I am next week's episode.
 

---

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
I'm still not sure that Nigel is Judas though.

After discussions in the balaam household we have Nigel as the Sanhedrin, all rules and no compassion. Not that it really matters, if we over anylise we could spoil what was a superb episode.
 

---

Posted by Abigail (# 1672) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:

Yes, why did the Bishop have a headache? The way he flinched at the light made it look more like a migraine to me (as a sufferer). Or perhaps I'm just reading meaning into everything now.....
[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl Kroenen:
... Herod (Bishop) washed his hands of him...

---

Wasn’t that Pilate, not Herod?
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Yes, the Bishop is indeed Pilate ('I find no fault in him').

Not sure about the headache, but Pilate was also having an off day (what with the Jews, Herod, and his wife all banging on at him......).

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Karl Kroenen (# 16822) on :
 
Of course it's Pilate, how daft of me.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I also got the impression that the bishop found the whole process and situation a difficult one. There was something of his pain with the situation he was in.

But I suspect at core, it was to give him a reason to wash his hands.
 

---

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
My prediction is that the Archdeacon will turn out to be Joseph of Arimathea, and be instrumental in providing Adam with a bolt hole from which he can be rescued/raised. A gay person can't be portrayed as a total baddie these days.

I don't agree that Nigel isn't really Judas after all. The two harpies are the Sanhedrin. It is expedient that the church be sold for the diocese's funds.

That church, by the way, would be difficult to dispose of for offices. It's too architectural. It's not some ghastly faux-gothic thing in 'correct' Decorated, with encaustic tiles and pitch pine pews. You'd have English Heritage getting in the way.
 

---

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :
 
In The Master and Margherita Pilate has a headache. Maybe that's why the bishop has to take an aspirin?

I am thinking about Pentecost, and wondering if the church will be reborn in a new form without Ada and without the building.

[ 24. April 2014, 09:12: Message edited by: Niminypiminy ]
 

---

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Enoch:
That church, by the way, would be difficult to dispose of for offices. It's too architectural. It's not some ghastly faux-gothic thing in 'correct' Decorated, with encaustic tiles and pitch pine pews. You'd have English Heritage getting in the way.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
In The Master and Margherita Pilate has a headache. Maybe that's why the bishop has to take an aspirin?

I am thinking about Pentecost, and wondering if the church will be reborn in a new form without Ada and without the building.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kitten:
Was there any significance to the three knocks heard just ar the Church is darkened at the end?

---

It would be pretty cool if it were Liam Neeson trying to get in for a kip. You know, foxes have holes, and all that.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I only hope - and pray - that after all this discussion, we're not disappointed.....!!

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kitten:
Was there any significance to the three knocks heard just after the Church is darkened at the end?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Even if transferred to another church (God help 'em!), Nigel would still be a total prat.

Better he be exterminated.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Enoch:
That church, by the way, would be difficult to dispose of for offices. It's too architectural. It's not some ghastly faux-gothic thing in 'correct' Decorated, with encaustic tiles and pitch pine pews. You'd have English Heritage getting in the way.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:

Why did the Bishop have a headache? The way he flinched at the light made it look more like a migraine to me (as a sufferer). Or perhaps I'm just reading meaning into everything now.....

---

Yes, what with that, and the other analysis, are we going a bit davinci code over a sit-com about a downtrodden vicar ?
Not really . I'm lovin this thread and positively can't wait to see comment on the final episode .

BTW . Offering chocolate to someone with a headache did seem strange, cocoa often makes headaches worse.
Was the chocolate symbolic of secular Easter ? And maybe the Bishop's headache is symbolic of the CofE's current collective headache .......
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
But but but, it's the best telly there's been for months, and great telly deserves endless over-analysis! I haven't had this much fun since Sherlock!
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
If Nigel is Judas, who has offered him money ?
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Good question. The evil Diocesan Sec & Area Dean? Or if not money, perhaps opportunity of advancement? ("Anyone can see how wasted your talents are here, Nigel....") Though it probably couldn't work like that logistically.
 

---

Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :
 
I've just completed an online survey on 'Rev' for "Christian Surveys", having been invited to do so by email. No idea who they are. However, I did not check the "don't send me the results" box, so I might be able to post a link to the results here in due course.
 

---

Posted by tomsk (# 15370) on :
 
Balaam said:"After discussions in the balaam household we have Nigel as the Sanhedrin, all rules and no compassion. "

Yes, Law not grace.

I loved it. Adam stops striving, gets to the end of himself and meets God.

It's sad, but truthful, that the behaviour of the parishoners is destroying the thing they love.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I think the series is so well written that it copes with very intense analysis. That doesn't mean there will not be issues or discrepancies found by this, but that there is a whole lot of meaning in the shows - this davinci-like analysis is built in.

But it is built into the whole series, of which there is still one episode to go. Some of the analysis may have to wait for the final episode, because we don't yet have all of the information.

It is worth considering that ep 3 was generally disliked here. But it was crucial to the last two episodes. What is more, in the context of the whole series so far, it made a lot of sense.

At 6 episodes, they can make it almost like a single story, with sub aspects.
 

---

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
One of the more interesting aspects (from my perspective) is the unpopularity SC alludes too. I think these episodes are less well liked because they are uncomfortable and the "hero" is seen to be weak, frail and hurt by the outrageous slings and arrows. We want and expect our heroes to be steely eyed and untouchable. Adam is so not that.

What is disturbing my Christianity is the (always known) truth that Christ was not like that either. Nothing else has recently shown me how He was truly lost and hurt, not some blue eyed wonderkid but a person, hated for trying to do His best, by everyone, friend and foe alike.

Deeply moving and challenging.

Fly Safe

Pyx_e

[ 25. April 2014, 08:48: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]
 

---

Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
I've just completed an online survey on 'Rev' for "Christian Surveys", having been invited to do so by email. No idea who they are. However, I did not check the "don't send me the results" box, so I might be able to post a link to the results here in due course.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:
One of the more interesting aspects (from my perspective) is the unpopularity SC alludes too. I think these episodes are less well liked because they are uncomfortable and the "hero" is seen to be weak, frail and hurt by the outrageous slings and arrows. ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:
One of the more interesting aspects (from my perspective) is the unpopularity SC alludes too. I think these episodes are less well liked because they are uncomfortable and the "hero" is seen to be weak, frail and hurt by the outrageous slings and arrows. ...

---

I don't think that's the problem at all. It's much more that this series hitherto has been comedy and trailed as such. We've no problem with the central figure in a comedy series being a bit inept or even vulnerable, whatever that overused word means.

Where this series has suddenly become more challenging is that it's turned serious in two ways that leave viewers unsure how to take it. The obvious one was the strong echo last Monday of the Via Dolorosa. The more subtle one, though, which has been building up particularly since the statue scene, is that is it funny to watch a decent person - who isn't a total prat like Basil Fawlty - falling apart, emotionally, psychically and spiritually?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frankly My Dear:
Sorry, folks, but, having sat through the whole series now, I regard the breaking of the artwork as this programme's 'jump the shark' moment. Since then, there has been one implausibility and overblown reaction after another, and then an all-too-obvious headlong rush into some grand theological flourishes. Ruined it for me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:
One of the more interesting aspects (from my perspective) is the unpopularity SC alludes too. I think these episodes are less well liked because they are uncomfortable and the "hero" is seen to be weak, frail and hurt by the outrageous slings and arrows. ...

---

I don't think that's the problem at all. It's much more that this series hitherto has been comedy and trailed as such. We've no problem with the central figure in a comedy series being a bit inept or even vulnerable, whatever that overused word means.

Where this series has suddenly become more challenging is that it's turned serious in two ways that leave viewers unsure how to take it. The obvious one was the strong echo last Monday of the Via Dolorosa. The more subtle one, though, which has been building up particularly since the statue scene, is that is it funny to watch a decent person - who isn't a total prat like Basil Fawlty - falling apart, emotionally, psychically and spiritually?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
But but but, it's the best telly there's been for months, and great telly deserves endless over-analysis! I haven't had this much fun since Sherlock!

---

Absolutely Rev. is pure gold .

It gets to the stage you only have to see Archdeacon Robert pull one of those expressions, or for Colin to utter a sentence, and you're right in the zone.

BTW. Did anyone else see what looked like Ellie in the Passion sequence ? It was the quickest of shots, (had to freeze frame it), where she looked very much like the traditionally held version of Mary Magdalene .

If we are to be doing symbolic Resurrection in the last episode , my prediction is Adam and Ellie will make a go of it, and set up a charismatic church .
Hope I'm wrong , hate spoilers
 

---

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
... If we are to be doing symbolic Resurrection in the last episode , my prediction is Adam and Ellie will make a go of it, and set up a charismatic church .
Hope I'm wrong , hate spoilers

---

So do I. That would be really bad theology. Adam is married to Alex.
 

---

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :
 
And besides, who in their right mind (as Adam obviously is) would leave Olivia Coleman ?
 

---

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
I've been PMd by another shipmate who has spotted exactly the same thing as me. Interesting.

Only three days to go (as the cognoscenti said on Good Friday.....)
 

---

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
And besides, who in their right mind (as Adam obviously is) would leave Olivia Coleman ?

---

Hear, hear.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
And besides, who in their right mind (as Adam obviously is) would leave Olivia Coleman ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
Go back to the first series - look at the story of how the window got smashed. How Adam was both attracted and repulsed by Darren's slick performance. How he's always caught between what's expedient or convenient, and various muddled and unclear ideas of what the right thing would be. I'll give you that this series has got darker, but that element has always been there.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:

If we are to be doing symbolic Resurrection in the last episode , my prediction is Adam and Ellie will make a go of it, and set up a charismatic church .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:

If we are to be doing symbolic Resurrection in the last episode , my prediction is Adam and Ellie will make a go of it, and set up a charismatic church .

---

I recall him being negative about charismatic churches in the episode about that slick-evo guy. Adam comes across as being MOR.

---

Adam fell and sustained a head injury and then saw a vision of God. So the way of the Cross might have been doing double duty as the road to Damascus. If Saul became fairly charismatic I suppose Adam might too. However in my professional opinion, I'm a Registered Nurse by trade, I think he needs to get that injury sorted out soon because they can turn very nasty if neglected.
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
3 day coma ?
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Ah Ha ! Nice one DT .

Yes, I've got it now . Adam goes into a delayed coma after his fall , Ellie thinks he's dead and goes into grief realising she loved him all along . Then he wakes up, and then they ride off into the sunset having created a new religion in the process.....

< Nerd Alert -- I've just watched the episode a 3rd time, have now deleted it as I don't wish to become the Rev. version of a Trekkie >
 

---

Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on :
 
The thing that struck me most was the fact that after "meeting God" the next thing Adam did was resign. This puzzled me at first because from the usual TV/movie story-telling point of view, the Liam Neeson moment was the "turning point" after which the main character clearly sees his path and proceeds to do the right thing which then resolves the plot (happily usually).

But of course in this case many of us will not think of him resigning as the "right" thing necessarily (I mean right in a story sense as well as morally. Adam's fundamentally a good guy and a decent priest and therefore should "win" and not have to give it up.) AND there's still a part two so there's more plot to come and the turning point is not as close to the end as it usually is.

But there is of course another way to look at this which is the analogue with the Easter story. The Neeson scene in that context looks more like Gethsemane maybe?

Anyway maybe it is the right thing for Adam to resign. Maybe the story being told is that a Good Man needs to "die to" the religious establishment and be "resurrected" outside of it. In other words I wouldn't be surprised if Adam ends up still a Christian but not necessarily a working priest.

Maybe not. I will stick my neck out and say that St. Saviours will close. I think whatever redemption there is at the end of the story - and there will be some - Rev. has tried to give at least a truthful "flavour" of the current state of the CofE and I think it would be a radical departure for some last minute miraculous turn of events to save the building. (Ha! I nearly wrote Deus Ex Machina ending) As appropriate as that may be to Christian imagery it would strike a wrong note with the existing tone of the show IMHO.

But who knows. We'll soon see.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Maybe The Rapture will occur........if it does, who do you think will go, and who will stay??



Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :
 
Life imitating art!

And don't follow this link because it has an outline of the plot for episode 6 unless your curiosity gets the better of you.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Hairy Biker, you are a Very Bad Person, so to put temptation in our way.......

.....but if everyone who watches Rev. regularly could somehow put ten shillings in the pot, St. Leonard's would have more than enough - not only to merely survive, but to expand their mission an outreach.......

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Pia (# 17277) on :
 
See... I said what Doublethink suggested when I first watched it and was persuaded by Mr Pia that it was a stupid suggestion. But now I've looked at HairyBiker's link [it's OK, no spoilers] and I'm thinking maybe, just maybe, my first thought was the right (if implausible) one.

I rewatched the episode yesterday, but the only additional thing that I noticed was how the Bishop broke the chocolate as if he were breaking the bread...

Is it nearly tomorrow yet?
 

---

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :
 
Someone I follow on Twitter posted a [url= https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBdIKX3nsWE&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]link to a You tube preview[/url] for the final episode - the archdeacon and a reference...

Carys
 

---

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :
 
Aargh I'm sure I deleted that space my tablet insists on putting in when I paste something, but it wouldn't let me preview (just gave me a blank tab). Sorry hosts.

Carys
 

---

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
One more day to go!
 

---

Posted by Ahleal V (# 8404) on :
 
Higgs Bosun, what are these Christian Surveys and how does one join them?

x

AV
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by StevHep:
Adam fell and sustained a head injury and then saw a vision of God. So the way of the Cross might have been doing double duty as the road to Damascus. If Saul became fairly charismatic I suppose Adam might too.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ahleal V:
Higgs Bosun, what are these Christian Surveys and how does one join them?

x

AV

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pia:

I rewatched the episode yesterday, but the only additional thing that I noticed was how the Bishop broke the chocolate as if he were breaking the bread...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
I also noticed that we ended episode 5, not on Good Friday, but at the end of Maundy Thursday - church stripped bare, dark and in silence. I think we'll be in for some more pain before the glorious resurrection finale.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by seasick:
Is this the same person do you think?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Even if transferred to another church (God help 'em!), Nigel would still be a total prat.

Better he be exterminated.

---

A Reader/LLM is licensed to a specific incumbent, so any transfer would need that incumbent's acceptance.

---

quote:

---

Do the makers of Rev really think a Reader is paid by the Church?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
WTF is James Mumford? Who pissed in his Cheerios?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I don't know - but he just happens to be the brother of Marcus Mumford (Mumford & Sons) whose father was a noted New Church leader back in the 80s.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by justlooking:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:

---

A Reader/LLM is licensed to a specific incumbent, so any transfer would need that incumbent's acceptance.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of a preacherman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
WTF is James Mumford? Who pissed in his Cheerios?

---

Well, whoever the F he his - I would like to thank him. The comments thread for his 'article' brought me back to SoF after a fairly long absence from lurking... and I have loved reading this thread.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by justlooking:
Most of all - what does he do for a living? Do the makers of Rev really think a Reader is paid by the Church?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:

quote:

---

Originally posted by justlooking:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:

---

A Reader/LLM is licensed to a specific incumbent, so any transfer would need that incumbent's acceptance.

---

Wrong. A Reader is licensed to a parish, a deanery and/or a diocese. To be licensed to a parish needs the acceptance of the PCC, which in practice often means the Churchwardens giving formal approval on behalf of the congregation. Formal approval from an incumbent is also usually needed. Most dioceses have a procedure for periodic re-licensing which for a parish Reader would need the formal endorsement of the incumbent and a Churchwarden.
I am looking at my licence. It explicitly names my incumbent (within the deanery, not the parish, interestingly). When our incumbent changed, I needed a new license.

(In London) when someone is proposed for reader training it needs the approval of the incumbent and the PCC. The latter is evidenced by the signature of the PCC secretary (not a Church Warden, unless they are the same) to say that the PCC passed a motion of support.

When a transfer is requested, the new incumbent has to sign to say that the PCC approves.

Relicensing requires a simple message (an email sufficed last year) indicates that the incumbent and PCC is willing to have a reader relicensed.

---

quote:

---

There are more than 10,000 active Readers in the Church of England. Most are licensed to a parish but some are chaplains in prisons, hospitals, hospices or schools, a few are in charge of parishes.

---

quote:

---

In practice many Readers get little support from anyone.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of a preacherman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
WTF is James Mumford? Who pissed in his Cheerios?

---

Well, whoever the F he his - I would like to thank him. The comments thread for his 'article' brought me back to SoF after a fairly long absence from lurking... and I have loved reading this thread.

I am so looking forward to the finale.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chorister:
One more day to go!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Son of a preacherman - welcome back. We did have a Clergymans Daughter here once, but she has changed her name since. You two would probably get on.

It is not unknown for a reader to work pretty much full time at a church. Not paid, but someone who is kept in some way - they have their own money, or an income from somewhere that leaves them free most of the week.

---

I have known a stipendiary reader. Reduction of priests in a group, priest and 'lay missioner' appointed, lay person appointed was a reader.

Still sad from the episode, but such a powerful ending.

CArys
 

---

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Well, sadly not quite the Resurrection I was hoping for, but a bitter-sweet 'resurrection' none-the-less.
 

---

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
....... thinking..... praying .....
 

---

Posted by Cartmel Veteran (# 7049) on :
 
Surprised to say this given I've loved all three series and defended the show many times...but that final episode did absolutely nothing at all for me.

I didn't laugh. I wasn't emotionally moved. And I got more fed up with Adam letting Colin being a bully.

Also I think Adam made the right choice to quit, but he was looking for the wrong jobs. There are places someone that caring can make a big difference and to more than his six bullying parishioners.
 

---

Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :
 
I think it's left it open as to what he does next. He seemed to be very close to getting that £60K consulting job (plus Blackberry!) but clearly didn't want it.

Then he says to God, 'you've got me back in a cassock again' (or words to that effect) ... 'at least for a bit.' I think 'a bit' could easily mean 20 years.

The voiceover just before it started suggested we were going to see Liam Neeson again - did I miss him? And - I looked away for an instant - on the first shot of the vicarage, was there a For Sale sign?
 

---

Posted by iamchristianhearmeroar (# 15483) on :
 
Marge, I'm confused. Is this a happy ending or a sad ending?

It's an ending, that's enough.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
It was an ending.

It was a resurrection. Of Adams faith, I think, not of the church. He will find something to go to, probably still as a priest, maybe not so tied to a parish.

And Alex must surely be earning quite a packet. They should be able to afford somewhere without him earning anything.
 

---

Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on :
 
In the end I found it a good ending (or at least the best we were likely to get).

In keeping with the sign and symbol from the previous episode there was plenty to spot.

Adam takes to his bed and cant be found, before Easter Sunday dawns. All his friends are lost without him, even (especially) Colin! Its noticeable he calls for 'Adam' and not 'Vicarage' in this episode - I think that's the first time.

Genuine development for Colin's character, where he shows Adam how let down he feels, and its a splendid performance in a character who its easy to play as a stereotype .

Its the women (Alex and Ellie) who decide to go to the church early in the morning on Easter Sunday , and wake up Adam.

The church (the tomb?) has to be opened , and by further analogy , Adam no longer needs it (just as Jesus no longer needs a tomb).

But I'm sure everyone here spotted all these.

I was hoping for something a bit more interesting for Nigel though - as I said before.

So the series ends I think. Adam looks likely to remain a Priest, but somewhere else.

Hopefully they don't try to transplant the series to another Parish as St Saviour's is as much a character as the regular cast. Best to end here while you're ahead.
 

---

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
OK, I'm getting there. Firstly, whatever that was I have never felt like that watching TV before.

If I allow myself to continue with the Passion Play scenario then the death, harrowing of Hell, residing in the Tomb and resurrection were all there.

I am a little uncomfortable (mostly because of the Ship) that the person of Christ resides so firmly in a Priest, this story must be true for all Christians but it is called "Rev." So I am just going to have to deal with that, we all have our vocations, our deaths, our resurrections.

Because we know "What Happened Next." It is taking me a while to come to terms with the new risen Adam, as it must have taken them (Christ's followers) by surprise too.

It is perfect that he was like a new-born, afraid and unsure. It is perfect that the last scene is a baptism (echoing the Communion at the end of the last series) and placing our Baptism above all else.

Adams lying in bed (the tomb) reciting the Beatitudes was unbearable, the re-opening f the Church (rolling the Stone away) was AWESOME and I just cried when he put his folded grave clothes (Alb NOT cassock fools) back on.

The Exsultet! Oh my, weeping now as I think of it.

So much more to say, but in terms of Grace, I have to say they hit the nail on the head, no pun intended.

I now think his wife is the Holy Spirit btw.

I am full of admiration for the whole crew, cast and writers. To think so many non-Christians were entered into such a mystery. Praise be to God.

He is RISEN indeed, Alleluia!
 

---

Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 
Does it make me really shallow if I say that I really exulted when he told Nigel to 'F*** off!', not once but twice?

I wish he'd managed to tell Colin that he (Colin) had also let Adam down, by spreading lies as fact and effectively making it impossible for Adam to stay in ministry there.

Two quotes I loved - 'I do humility very, very well. I don't know anyone who does humility better than me'.

And the girl in the shop, who's always sneering - 'You can mind the till for me, I've got to go and sign on'

I find Rev. quite painful to watch, and agree that they should *not* transplant it elsewhere!

Oh, and I didn't see a 'For Sale' sign.

Mrs. S, lost in admiration of Alex
 

---

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :
 
I found it almost unbearably moving.

All that Pyx_e said, plus: when Adam in his tomb/bed, reciting the beatitudes, and the other characters are praying (and how often do we see this on tv?) they expose their self-delusions, the stories they tell about themselves to protect themselves to God, they expose them to his light. I thought this bit was extraordinary. The harrowing of hell, indeed.

When Alex said to Adam, 'you are a priest', that was an intensely powerful moment (for me, anyway). And then as she helped him on with his alb.
 

---

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :
 
And saying 'As in Adam all die, but in Christ all shall be made alive' this morning had a new resonance.
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Dare I be a party-pooper?

I loved this and, like others, found it moving - but aren't we allowing ourselves to be too carried away by what was, after all, only a television programme?
 

---

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :
 
It's a hallmark of art (understood in a broad sense) that it allows a rich plurality of meanings in excess of the intentions of its makers, no?
 

---

Posted by Roseofsharon (# 9657) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Dare I be a party-pooper?

I loved this and, like others, found it moving - but aren't we allowing ourselves to be too carried away by what was, after all, only a television programme?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Dare I be a party-pooper?

I loved this and, like others, found it moving - but aren't we allowing ourselves to be too carried away by what was, after all, only a television programme?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Dare I be a party-pooper?

I loved this and, like others, found it moving - but aren't we allowing ourselves to be too carried away by what was, after all, only a television programme?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Dare I be a party-pooper?

I loved this and, like others, found it moving - but aren't we allowing ourselves to be too carried away by what was, after all, only a television programme?

---

I think this just indicates how poor the majority of television is these days. It was always supposed to educate, to inform and to entertain, and Rev. has done all this and more. And it isn't as if we were all petitioning the Church authorities to Save St. Saviour's, as people no doubt would if it were in East Enders.

After all, I'm sure the Lord Chamberlain would have said Shakespeare only wrote plays...

Having said all that, I stopped watching CSI Miami when I discovered myself caring about the characters (used to allow myself one hour/week of trash telly). I think I felt manipulated by that in a way I haven't found in Rev.

Mrs. S, comparing & contrasting her own parish
 

---

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Brilliant ending - an Easter glimmer - elusive as in Mark's gospel when it ends at 16:8

Liked the different characters praying - still maintaining that the were innocent - don't we all pray our illusions now and then?

Good to hear the Exultet sung in tune - it's my party piece but took a lot of learning originally - rarely do people manage that and good on the actor for learning it - though why in Latin?

I think that we DID learn more about Nigel - he was looking at a gay dating site but criticising the dress sense of those with photos - methinks internally homophobic = not able to accept himself.
 

---

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:

quote:

---

In practice many Readers get little support from anyone.

---

Apart from Beelzebub.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cartmel Veteran:
Surprised to say this given I've loved all three series and defended the show many times...but that final episode did absolutely nothing at all for me.

I didn't laugh. I wasn't emotionally moved. And I got more fed up with Adam letting Colin being a bully.

Also I think Adam made the right choice to quit, but he was looking for the wrong jobs. There are places someone that caring can make a big difference and to more than his six bullying parishioners.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I am a little uncomfortable (mostly because of the Ship) that the person of Christ resides so firmly in a Priest, this story must be true for all Christians

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dennis the Menace:
Any one know how many episodes in this current series? Up to six now I think.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leo
I think that we DID learn more about Nigel - he was looking at a gay dating site but criticising the dress sense of those with photos - methinks internally homophobic = not able to accept himself.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Only a television programme? Wow, snobbery lives and breathes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
Good to hear the Exultet sung in tune - it's my party piece but took a lot of learning originally - rarely do people manage that and good on the actor for learning it - though why in Latin?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:


But - oh, the light through the church doors when they broke in. One of the best bits of telly in a long, long time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
I presume that BT meant "Only a tv programme" in the same way as one could say "only a novel / film / etc". Not a criticism of the art form as such, more that it's "only" art, not aiming to be inspirational.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
I presume that BT meant "Only a tv programme" in the same way as one could say "only a novel / film / etc". Not a criticism of the art form as such, more that it's "only" art, not aiming to be inspirational.

---

Yes, that's the idea - although I also wanted to remind folk that, however profound it may have been, it was first and foremost conceived of as entertainment.

Mind you, so were Shakespeare's plays and Mozart's operas!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
I've just completed an online survey on 'Rev' for "Christian Surveys", having been invited to do so by email. No idea who they are. However, I did not check the "don't send me the results" box, so I might be able to post a link to the results here in due course.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by justlooking:
In an interregnum the Reader continues in ministry and when a new incumbent is appointed he/she is expected after six months to re-nominate the Reader to the bishop for the license to be updated.

---

Snd should the new incombet not want the Reader, s/he might move to another church BUT has to stay in the ciongregation for a year before attempting to get a newe license.

i used to think this was harsh but recent experience makes me think that this is a good idea.

So were the series of 'Rev' be resuscitated, Nigel would not pop up again with Adam.

For as in Adam all die.....
 

---

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
I really hope they don't go down the commercially tempting route of a 'Christmas Special'

Someone on twitter wrote that 'The church building couldn't be saved, but the people have been'.

And that's the message we've been left with. There is the germ of the church there, even though the physical building is no longer available. And they came together when it mattered, rather like the disciples all ready for Pentecost.
 

---

Posted by Rev per Minute (# 69) on :
 
Or the 'Upper Room', which was locked for fear of the authorities - or locked by the authorities? Perhaps there's a touch of prophetic ministry, the church being reborn without the church building. Forgiveness, a return to life, proclaiming the resurrection against the complaints and denials of the locals - a great ending. Not perfect, but nothing is (do I need to say, 'except God'?).
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Was it the ending you thought you spotted last week, Chorister?

A moving conclusion - if that's what it was! - and a salutary lesson (if any of them were watching) to folk in our neighbouring parish, facing imminent closure, insofar that we have been reminded that the Church is the people, not the building, however much loved it might be....

......and one would like to think of Rev. Adam continuing in priestly ministry somewhere, somehow - but please, as someone else has said, no Christmas Special!

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by justlooking (# 12079) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
Snd should the new incombet not want the Reader, s/he might move to another church BUT has to stay in the ciongregation for a year before attempting to get a newe license.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by beatmenace:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leo
I think that we DID learn more about Nigel - he was looking at a gay dating site but criticising the dress sense of those with photos - methinks internally homophobic = not able to accept himself.

---

That was kind of what I meant - although Nigel as a closeted gay man refusing to accept the obvious probably wasn't the most INTERESTING explanation for the way he ticks, but it probably is the easiest to do with the screen time available.

Closeted Gay Man seems quite similar to things the series has already done (to some extent) with the Archdeacon in series 2, who has to choose between love and promotion, and the Gay Wedding story.

It does explain, in part, why he transfers his own personal judgementalism on to others, and Adam in particular.

I will have to watch the scenes again when he is opposite the Archdeacon who Nigel presumably knows is an 'out' gay man, with this extra knowledge.

---

If you hadn't even considered that Nigel was closeted, just from the episode you mention, I'm struggling to see how it could have been made clearer. Possibly if he'd dressed up in a pink leotard and jumped up and down inside an actual closet, shouting "I'm not gay!" Possibly. The only possible room for doubt was whether it was a deliberate attempt to mislead the viewer into assuming something that wasn't actually true.

And I'm afraid I'm thoroughly sick of the desperate attempts to find exact parallels between Rev and the Easter story. Some of them are blindingly obvious, and the scriptwriters deserve to be beaten about the head with a sledgehammer until they understand the meaning of subtle. Some of the parallels just aren't there, they're things you want to see, and you're arguing over angels on a pinhead.

This is just cementing my view that this was a rather poor and ill-conceived conclusion. The series deserved (and promised) so much more than a crude, inspiration-free allegory that even C.S.Lewis would have balked at.
 

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Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
Art, meh.
 

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Posted by Karl Kroenen (# 16822) on :
 
At risk of over analysing, perhaps this series is more sinister than we think, with lots of subtle dark symbolism.

We all know how God removes a SMALLBONE from ADAM to create Woman (Gen 2 21 -25). Adam’s wife in Rev is of course, quite literally A.Smallbone.

The whole series is named after the final book of the New Testament, otherwise known as THE APOCALYPSE.

3 Series of six (excluding the Christmas special of series 2)? Uh oh – that makes 666.

 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Also with hidden references to Bunyan's "Pilgrim's Progress": St. Saviour-in-the-Marshes = the dreaded Slough of Despond!
 

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Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :
 

quote:

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Nigel remains licensed even though the church has closed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Was it the ending you thought you spotted last week, Chorister?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
I wondered whether the fire left burning in the barrel might lead to an accident - gaining sufficient money from insurance to renovate the building.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Panda
Better than the Diocesan Arsonist, surely...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:

quote:

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Nigel remains licensed even though the church has closed.

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In the Church of England Parishes don't close. So the parish of St Saviour's will presumably be merged with a neighbouring parish. In this kind of circumstance, I guess, it would be as if Nigel has a new incumbent - who, as has been said, can choose not to renew his licence in due course.

Perhaps to take this sub-thread in a different direction - much has been said about Adam as an example of a priest, good or otherwise. Do we consider Nigel to be a good advertisement for Reader Ministry, or not?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Panda:
Also, wasn't he turned down for ordained ministry in the last series - suggesting that all readers are actually frustrated clerics, who sabotage the current incumbent, believing they could run the parish far better than the current vicar, given the chance (I've met a few of these). Also not good.

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quote:

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originally posted by The great Gumby
Possibly if he'd dressed up in a pink leotard and jumped up and down inside an actual closet, shouting "I'm not gay!"

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quote:

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Originally posted by Panda:
Better than the Diocesan Arsonist, surely...

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quote:

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Originally posted by StevHep:
And the Archdeacon more like the centurion who stood by the Cross.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Oh yes you are.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
The archdeacon is Nicodemus, the closet believer.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pyx_e:
It's behind you.

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Panda:
Also, wasn't he turned down for ordained ministry in the last series - suggesting that all readers are actually frustrated clerics, who sabotage the current incumbent, believing they could run the parish far better than the current vicar, given the chance (I've met a few of these). Also not good.

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Reader ministry is entirely different from ordained ministry but many see getting licensed as some sort of consolation prize.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Spike:
It only occurred to me today that Mick didn't appear in any of the later episodes. Could this be because he was seen as too much of a comic character?

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I assumed it might have been because the actor playing him wasn't available to take part.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
How could Mick follow his dressing up to seduce the vicar act? Better left at that, I think.
 

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Posted by Miffy (# 1438) on :
 
Forgot about that!
 

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Posted by justlooking (# 12079) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:

quote:

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Nigel remains licensed even though the church has closed.

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In the Church of England Parishes don't close. So the parish of St Saviour's will presumably be merged with a neighbouring parish. In this kind of circumstance, I guess, it would be as if Nigel has a new incumbent - who, as has been said, can choose not to renew his licence in due course.

Perhaps to take this sub-thread in a different direction - much has been said about Adam as an example of a priest, good or otherwise. Do we consider Nigel to be a good advertisement for Reader Ministry, or not?

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
Yes - I usually wear ab and blue scarf at mass but surplice, scarf and hood for evensong.

But the legal garb for everything is the latter.

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