Source: (consider it)
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Thread: AS: Definitive List of First Shipmeets - 10th birthday retro feature
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Ancient Mariner
Sip the ship
# 4
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Posted
In putting together a history of SoF - to celebrate 10 years online (April 1st 2008) - we are compiling the definitive List of First Shipmeets.
Put simply, we need to know the exact month and year when the first shipmeet was held in each city/town.
Please post your information on this thread - and settle disputes with Christian charity.
[ 12. June 2008, 14:11: Message edited by: Campbellite ]
-------------------- Ship of Fools' first novel, Rattles & Rosettes, is the tale of two football (soccer) fans: 16-year-old Tom in 1914 and Dan in 2010. More at www.rattlesandrosettes.com
Posts: 2582 | From: St Helens (near Liverpool) UK | Registered: May 2001
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Ancient Mariner
Sip the ship
# 4
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Posted
I think the first Manchester shipmeet was at the Moon Under Water in Deansgate in December 1999. Can anyone advise?
-------------------- Ship of Fools' first novel, Rattles & Rosettes, is the tale of two football (soccer) fans: 16-year-old Tom in 1914 and Dan in 2010. More at www.rattlesandrosettes.com
Posts: 2582 | From: St Helens (near Liverpool) UK | Registered: May 2001
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
As far as I'm aware the first actual meeting between two people from the bulletin boards (who had not obviously met previously) was when I arranged to meet Anna the Purple Fish Woman at Birmingham New Street Station for a coffee in late December 1998.
-------------------- "He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
I think I can safely say Moree, NSW, December 2006! (OzO, FD, Clarence, Kuruman and Zappa present).
There been a few in odd places around OZ (not OzO) & NZ since I've been on board. There was also Byron Bay, July 2004. (Left at the Altar, Nutmeg, Rowen, Innocent Stranger, Arleigh and I were there).
I'm not sure if there's been an Auckland meet before January 2007: Dee, Meow, Riverfalls, Cod and I.
Similarly there was one in Wellington, (McChicken, Arabella Purity Winterbottom, Jemimah and I) and one in Hamilton, (Dee, Meow, me and possibly Eucharistica Fantastica) but I don't know if they were firsts, either. And Huia and Kuruman's mini-meet in Christchurch last year may have been a first, too!
All of which was intended to demonstrate that antipodean firsts may have been a little late in the piece! [ 14. March 2008, 16:38: Message edited by: Zappa ]
-------------------- shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
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aj
firewire technophobe
# 1383
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Posted
Jan or Feb 2002 - can't remember:
Cusanus and aj (hey - that's me!) met in Hobart, Australia for one of the early Australian Shipmeets.
-------------------- if there's no god, then who turns on the light when you open the fridge?
Posts: 2994 | From: ...on location | Registered: Sep 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
The Bristol and Exeter meets (and I think Sidmouth) were already well-established before I started going along. But I'm pretty sure I was at the first one in Abergavenny, Buxton, Chesterfield, Looe. Sorry - I don't have dates, but maybe by flagging them up here someone else who was at any or all of these who likes to keep lists of dates might help us out.
-------------------- Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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frin
Drinking coffee for Jesus
# 9
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Posted
I remember the Moon under the Water, with Simon and Steve being there. I would like this to be declared first, as I want in on a ship of fools first (how irritating that all those other couples got down the aisle faster!)
However, that may not be the first Manchester Meet, as July 1999 seems to have been an occassion when ship mates gathered in the northern city.
Whilst a Crewe shipmeet took place months earlier.
Yours in the spirit of research,
'frin
-------------------- "Even the crocodile looks after her young" - Lamentations 4, remembering Erin.
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Wairua
Shipmate
# 3912
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Zappa: Similarly there was one in Wellington, (McChicken, Arabella Purity Winterbottom, Jemimah and I) and one in Hamilton, (Dee, Meow, me and possibly Eucharistica Fantastica) but I don't know if they were firsts, either.
There was a Wellington meet in 2003 - it will test my memory to work out what month it was but it would have been before the end of July. [ 14. March 2008, 17:17: Message edited by: Wairua ]
Posts: 709 | From: aotearoa | Registered: Jan 2003
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welsh dragon
Shipmate
# 3249
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Posted
The launch event for the Ship of Fools website was apparently in St. Luke's church, Holloway, in 1998, close to St. Simeon's day, according to my lovely husband, who woz there.
The first carol-singing shipmeet in Brockenhurst village, Hampshire was held on 22nd December 2007 . [ 14. March 2008, 18:07: Message edited by: welsh dragon ]
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kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
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Posted
I think the first St Albans meet may have been in 2003. Shipmates included me, Schroedinger's Cat, chapelhead and Dave the bass (hope I've got the right Dave) amongst others.
-------------------- I came to Jesus and I found in him my star, my sun. And in that light of life I'll walk 'til travelling days are done
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
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Simon
Editor
# 1
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Posted
The record of all the early meets, including the launch event on St Simeon's Day 1998 and the Museum Tavern meet on 27 Feb 1999 (the first "proper" meet, I think) is still online...
Crew Meets of yore
Nice to see some familiar faces in there.
-------------------- Eternal memory
Posts: 3787 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001
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starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25
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Posted
The very first meet in Exeter was either at the very end of 2000 (Nov/Dec), or perhaps Jan 2001 and was with Me, Amanda and Sean, and took place in the Imperial in Exeter. I think the conversation revolved mostly around beer.
I look so very very young in the 2001 St Simeons meet pictures...
Posts: 6009 | From: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. | Registered: May 2001
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Auntie Doris
Screen Goddess
# 9433
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by kingsfold: I think the first St Albans meet may have been in 2003. Shipmates included me, Schroedinger's Cat, chapelhead and Dave the bass (hope I've got the right Dave) amongst others.
There's been a St Albans meet?
Auntie Doris x
-------------------- "And you don't get to pronounce that I am not a Christian. Nope. Not in your remit nor power." - iGeek in response to a gay-hater :)
The life and times of a Guernsey cow
Posts: 6019 | From: The Rock at the Centre of the Universe | Registered: May 2005
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Ye Olde Motherboarde
Ship's Mother and Singing Quilter
# 54
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Posted
I was thinking of the first time I met the gang - Simon, Viola, Maddie, Simon, Angel, DaveC in London in the Musuem Tavern. Ah, such good memories....... Then the one where Hookers Trick and JB met me in DC. First time I met my sweetie.
Maybe we ought to make a thread of the first ship marriages met: kind of like..... "How we got to have our Ship Marriage remembrances"
-------------------- In Memory of Miss Molly, TimC, Gambit, KenWritez, koheleth, Leetle Masha, JLG, Genevieve, Erin, RuthW2, deuce2, Sidi and TonyCoxon, unbeliever, Morlader, Ken :tear: 20 years but who’s counting?..................
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I forgot the Bath meet. How could I forget meeting 16 year-old Max for the first time?!
-------------------- Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Please will someone define "First meet", then I might be closer to being able to give a Sheffield date.
Really wondering if the "mini-meet" between Inanna, Claire and myself, way back around 2000 counts. There may have been even earlier ones. I remember it as very wet.
If not then you will have to fast forward to 2002 and 2003 then you had best ask Pheonix who was the organiser.
Jengie
-------------------- "To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Does Rosemary win the record for being the shipmate who has attended many different meets consistently for the longest?
Or is there another contender for that prize?
The first Cardiff meet I knew about was in the spring of 2007. Was there an earlier one?
-------------------- Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Ham'n'Eggs
Ship's Pig
# 629
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Chorister: But I'm pretty sure I was at the first one in ... Looe.
The Looe Shipmeet was in August 2002, and was attended by Traveller, Chorister, CJ, Ham'n'Eggs, Eggs Benedict, Poached Eggs and Scrambled Eggs. I think that I still have the photos somewhere.
This was the first ever Shipmeet in Cornwall.
-------------------- "...the heresies that men do leave / Are hated most of those they did deceive" - Will S
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Chorister: I forgot the Bath meet. How could I forget meeting 16 year-old Max for the first time?!
Would've had to have been Summer 2004 and I happened to organise my first shipmeet in Bath! (They are always known as Bathmeets)
We had a Churchcrawl, followed by drinks and a meal in Garfunkals if I remember rightly! I was too young to buy alcohol! My Future Godfather (Trisagion) gave me a lift home and planted those seeds which has made me the person that I am today (A Catholic Theology Student)
Max
-------------------- For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
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dolphy
Lady of Perpetual Responsiblity
# 862
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by starbelly: The very first meet in Exeter was either at the very end of 2000 ...I think the conversation revolved mostly around beer.
No surprise there then!
If we are allowed to include mini-meets, the very first Oxford mini-meet was in the summer of 2001.
-------------------- Looking forward to my rock moving closer again.
Posts: 15134 | From: my camper van | Registered: Jul 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Chorister: The first Cardiff meet I knew about was in the spring of 2007. Was there an earlier one?
I'm trying to remember Cardiff meets -- there might well have been an earlier one than Spring last year, but I can't remember now! (Talking of which we haven't had one for a while!)
Swansea meets were first in Wales -- I went on the second in June 2000 -- but then there was a hiatus after the girlie meet (which featured Sven's baptism)
There was a Newport meet when the Eisteddfod was there which was 2004 I believe.
I did a Cambridge meet in May 01, but I believe there had been one before that.
Trying to remember when the first Brum meet I did was, I think summer 2001, because it was not long before my first Greenbelt. I remember meeting Amos while I was wearing a silly hat on the station side of WHSmith at Birmingham New Street.
There was also the first St Sim's weekend in Derbyshire in July 2000, then Scarborough in 2001 and Betws y Coed in 2002.
Carys
-------------------- O Lord, you have searched me and know me You know when I sit and when I rise
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Carys: quote: Originally posted by Chorister: The first Cardiff meet I knew about was in the spring of 2007. Was there an earlier one?
I'm trying to remember Cardiff meets -- there might well have been an earlier one than Spring last year, but I can't remember now! (Talking of which we haven't had one for a while!)
Well I and my wife met Wood and Rosemary and Birdie one night in Cardiff, in late June of 2003 as far as I recall. Not sure whether that counts or not.
John
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Meanwhile in the northern colony...
There was a gathering (me, Ausgustine the Aleut, Henry Troup and That Wikkid Person) in a pub called the Arrow and Loon in Ottawa in the autumn of 2003. There was even a picture of the gathering yup somewhere on the SHip -- I suppose if those are still around, we could make the date more precise.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Well, Wodders and I met just a month after joining the Ship, here in gloriously warm India.
(To be fair, that visit was planned long before October 2006)
-------------------- Even more so than I was before
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
I believe the first shipmeet for Salem, Oregon was March/April 2005. In attendance were RooK, The Nurse, Kelly Alves, LadyA and Gort.
-------------------- --Formerly: Gort--
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Oh, yes! Kent, Washington in the Fall of 2005 (Sept?): MrSponge2U, Mousethief, Josephine, Bede's American Successor, The Pianist, Wm Duncan, Mrs. Duncan, and Gort.
-------------------- --Formerly: Gort--
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gort: Oh, yes! Kent, Washington in the Fall of 2005 (Sept?): MrSponge2U, Mousethief, Josephine, Bede's American Successor, The Pianist, Wm Duncan, Mrs. Duncan, and Gort.
And I think Littlest (my online name for our youngest offspring type being.) That was my first shipmeet.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by dolphy: If we are allowed to include mini-meets, the very first Oxford mini-meet was in the summer of 2001.
Yours took place after our definitive very first Oxmeet, though. I pipped you to it.
It was also in the summer of 2001 - may have been late spring. Motherboard will remember the date better than I do because she was doing her Tour of Europe that year. She, the Angel of the North, Debye Waller and daughter and I met under a tree by the river in Christ Church Meadows and split a bottle of sparkling wine, before going on to Alice's Tea Shop for a cream tea, where we all signed Motherboard's shirt. As one does.
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Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
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Posted
I think the first Washington shipmeet might have been when Moo, Motherboard, Presleyterian and one other whose real name I can remember but whose board name escapes me met me and my family when I was visiting my brother - I think it was in 2000. I still have the T shirt (a Washington Zoo one.)
-------------------- i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
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Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
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Posted
There was also the Girly Meet in Swansea, arranged by Chalky.
Motherboard, Gill H, Carys and Anna the Purple Fishwoman were there among others and we saw St David's Cathedral and Pembroke Castle, but I can't remember when it was.
-------------------- i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
There was also the Three A's Meet in Stratford upon Avon with you, Amos and me. When was that? I've a feeling it was 2002.
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Carys: There was also the first St Sim's weekend in Derbyshire in July 2000
There are some pics of that here.
I think that was my first meet. I'm pretty sure I hadn't met anyone there before then anyway.
The first Scotmeet was in Glasgow, I can even remember organising it, in a pub somewhere just south of George Square, but I can't remember the exact date (a bit after that, probably something like Sept 2000). AotN was there, and I think scz too. I know there'd been an earlier attempt to sort out a meet with someone called Anne who was in Dumfries at the time, but that didn't happen.
-------------------- Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
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Dormouse
Glis glis Ship's rodent
# 5954
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Posted
TreeBee and I had a Mini Meet in Milton Keynes sometime in 2004, I think. Followed by a Milton Keynes meet attended by TreeBee, Marvin, Kingsfold and ooh, someone else who I am mortified to have forgotten. I am sorry, Whoever you are. We met for lunch in a tapas bar, did something else in the afternoon (or maybe we went our separate ways) and then met in The Barge pub in the evening. However I have no idea of dates. Probably 2004 or 2005. Anyone help with dates?
As far as I know, one of these would count as the first Milton Keynes Meet. [ 15. March 2008, 08:35: Message edited by: Dormouse ]
-------------------- What are you doing for Lent? 40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk
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jugular
Voice of Treason
# 4174
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Posted
The first Sydney meet was in around May 2002. I was not then a shipmate, but well remember being met by nunc who was wearing a cape.
-------------------- We’ve got to act like a church that hasn’t already internalized the narrative of its own decline Ray Suarez
Posts: 2599 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2003
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I've just had a message from Nicodemia to say the Buxton shipmeet was 25 August, 2005. Does anyone have an earlier one on record, or was that the first?
-------------------- Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Arrietty: I think the first Washington shipmeet might have been when Moo, Motherboard, Presleyterian and one other whose real name I can remember but whose board name escapes me met me and my family when I was visiting my brother - I think it was in 2000. I still have the T shirt (a Washington Zoo one.)
The other person was Mary Beth. The meet was definitely in the summer of 2000; I think it was late July.
Moo
-------------------- Kerygmania host --------------------- See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
The first (and only, as far as I know) Writers' Meet was held in November 2004 at Waycross Retreat Center (run by ECUSA) in beautiful wooded Brown County, Indiana. www.waycrosscamp.org
The Retreat Lodge (one of several facilities on the property) was rustic with beautiful scenic views from all windows, deer coming up to the deck, hiking trails, and an intriguing "ghost town" deep within the woods. (It was really an old, abandoned grist mill, covered with lichen and leaves--the weather was misty and the whole scene very poetic).
We cooked our own meals after abandoning any pretext of planning. People showed up with whatever (including two people who provided a couple of cases of Pepsi and several bags of Halloween candy--Yum!!). We ended up with good meals, lots of coffee, and nice moments writing and then reading our work around a large dining room table. Another participant brought a dvd of old Warner Brothers cartoons.
Would love to do another Writers' Meet again.
sabine [ 15. March 2008, 13:43: Message edited by: sabine ]
-------------------- "Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I think, thanks to Jack the Lass' blog that the first Artist Meet was in Gloucester in around May/June 2003.
Jengie
-------------------- "To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
Great minds Jengie, I was just thinking of the Artists' Meet this afternoon - even though I joined the ship over 5 years ago, that was already too late I think for any of the many shipmeets I've been on to have been a "first", with the exception of the Artists' meet 16-18 May 2003 (I remember the date, it was the weekend before I started a new job on the 19th). I can't remember exactly where it was (you'd have to ask AnnieP who organised it) but it was definitely Gloucestershire, though not Gloucester as it was more countryside than that.
I've still got my two pictures from that weekend too One of which isn't actually too bad, and as a result of that weekend I still dig out my pastels every so often, having not drawn before then for about 20 years.
-------------------- "My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand) wiblog blipfoto blog
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
The first Ringers meet was in 2006.
I believe Lev and Dave (who was still Wibblethorpe in those days) used to organise meets in Sussex back in the early days. I went to a
-------------------- "May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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maleveque
Shipmate
# 132
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Moo: quote: Originally posted by Arrietty: I think the first Washington shipmeet might have been when Moo, Motherboard, Presleyterian and one other whose real name I can remember but whose board name escapes me met me and my family when I was visiting my brother - I think it was in 2000. I still have the T shirt (a Washington Zoo one.)
The other person was Mary Beth. The meet was definitely in the summer of 2000; I think it was late July.
Moo
And here I was thinking that the first DC meet was in late '01 or early '02. Chastmastr, his then-SO,me, Firstborn Son, both daughters,and some other people who I don't remember who they are met at the Royal Mile Pub in Wheaton, Maryland. Who else was there? Anne L.
Posts: 1496 | From: Washington, DC or thereabouts | Registered: May 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
We had a Chicago Meet the same summer as the Colorado Meet where AlanCresswell met Flausa. Was that 2003? AlanC and Welsh Dragon were traveling to the Colorado meet and arranged stopovers in Chicago. MrSponge2U and Troy both drove up for that -- about 300 and 350 miles respectively. IIRC sabine was going to join us but had a last-minute change in plans.
-------------------- Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Zappa: Similarly there was one in Wellington, (McChicken, Arabella Purity Winterbottom, Jemimah and I) but I don't know if they were firsts, either. And Huia and Kuruman's mini-meet in Christchurch last year may have been a first, too!
I met Arabella in Wellington before the larger group met up. We had a meal in a place that had been a funeral directors, but I can't remember the name.
Also I have had mini-meets (seperately) in Christchurch with AuntBeast, Shrinking Violet, LAtA and Christine (as she was then) when they were passing through,as well as Kuruman (more recently).
I thnk AuntBeast was the first, but I will need to check the date with her if she is still contactable.
Wow, until I wrote this I didn't realise I had met so many Shipmates (few of whom still post ).
Huia
-------------------- Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
Actually, the Wightmeet 2003 wasn't the first meet to take place the Island if we're counting mini-meets. Tigglet and Soggy Amphibian's Grand Tour was, I think, the previous year in the November and they came to the Island too. I am sure it preceded the Wightmeet because I can remember the ordeal of having to explain to my father about these two strangely-named young men who were sleeping in my lounge!
-------------------- Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mamacita: We had a Chicago Meet the same summer as the Colorado Meet where AlanCresswell met Flausa. Was that 2003? AlanC and Welsh Dragon were traveling to the Colorado meet and arranged stopovers in Chicago. MrSponge2U and Troy both drove up for that -- about 300 and 350 miles respectively.
ebeth and Mr also joined us for the brunch.
-------------------- Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
I *think* the first official Winchester meet was early 2003 when eyeliner made an appearance.... but it could have been earlier.
First official Poole meet could be as late as march 2007?!!?
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
Campbellite and I met in Roanoke, I believe it was in the summer of '05.
This meet included all shipmates living within a radius of fifty miles.
Moo
-------------------- Kerygmania host --------------------- See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
Simon and Motherboard met in Blacksburg in November, 1999. (I was not part of the ship then.) Motherboard had travelled all the way from Pittsburgh.
Moo
-------------------- Kerygmania host --------------------- See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Bronwyn
Shipmate
# 52
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by starbelly: The very first meet in Exeter was either at the very end of 2000 (Nov/Dec), or perhaps Jan 2001 and was with Me, Amanda and Sean, and took place in the Imperial in Exeter. I think the conversation revolved mostly around beer.
I look so very very young in the 2001 St Simeons meet pictures...
I was there by phone too. It MUST have been in Feb or March as Sean and I didn't meet on the net til feb 14 2001. I think I heavly encouraged a meeting. I seem to remember other things were discussed like marriage certificates.
We had a MILDURA meet in 2004 mid year I recall.
-------------------- Fragile X syndrome is part of our lives. Someone I love makes me proud who has this syndrome. I love you Miriam.
Posts: 1221 | From: Melbourne (Australia) | Registered: May 2001
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