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There is no greater hypocrisy than remaining silent about the sins of your own religion whilst indulging in the petty politics of attacking parties such as the BNP that have no history of organising or inciting violence. More people have been murdered by religious bigots than any other kind in history.The moral high ground that these Holy men pontificate from is built upon a graveyard hiding the historical crimes of their blood soaked religions.

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The BNP has been a political party only since 1982. The party has NEVER been involved in any political violence - unlike Sinn Fein and the I.R.A who take regular lunches with Tony Blair and have offices in the House of Commons and are to a considerable degree afforded protection by the catholic church.

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We are dedicated to the democratic political process and public accountability - whilst each of these religions are merely fascistic structures based on enslaving their adherents and ensuring their own increased power. They are nothing more than fascists in their religious robes and frocks!

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I am one of the speakers at the launch on 15 January representing a Christian viewpoint. The BNP has tried to rebrand itself as a viable opposition party. Its policies remain as extreme right wing and divisive as they ever have been. As far as asylum seekers are concerned ... imagine there is someone with a gun held to your head because, as a religious minority, you are no longer welcome in your village. You flee for the safety of your family. You come to this country and you are told that you have nothing to fear because "X" is a safe country. You are now in another country but extremely vulnerable still and subject to racial harrassment locally. Manchester has a proud tradition of independent thought and dissent. Historically it has stood by the poor and oppressed. Those of us who are working for racial harmony and justice hope to be numbered in that tradition. We are confident in the goodness and good sense of the people of this great city. We are standing up, being counted ... and we ain't going away.
Fr. Gregory Hallam, Levenshulme, Manchester
09/01/04 at 17:03

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The BNP are getting my vote next June. They speak out for the majority of white people in this country.
Dave, Manchester
08/01/04 at 21:36

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Originally posted by Fr. Gregory:


I think they are referring to me (among many).

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Originally posted by Nightlamp:
The BNP has been a political party only since 1982.

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Originally posted by Genie:
Her only response was to quote that passage where Jesus says he comes only to the lost sheep of Israel...

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Originally posted by Peppone:
Well, they start by claiming that the church is siloent on the issue of our past sins. That's not true. Then they contrast this supposed fascistic hypocrisy with their own umblemished record of peaceful community building, democratic engagement and full accountability, when in fact they are an organization that has consistently used street violence in the pursuit of political goals, are demonstrably anti-democratic, and have never told the truth about a) their fascist ideology and b) their contemptible record of law breaking.

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They've parroted what might, in the mouth of a real person, be at least some grounds for debate; but it's not criticism I'll accept from that pack of thugs.

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originally bleated and bullshitted by some fascists

whilst each of these religions are merely fascistic structures based on enslaving their adherents and ensuring their own increased power. They are nothing more than fascists in their religious robes and frocks!

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--------------------
Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
(I am so going to regret this...)

quote:

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Originally posted by Peppone:
they are an organization that has consistently used street violence in the pursuit of political goals, are demonstrably anti-democratic, and have never told the truth about a) their fascist ideology and b) their contemptible record of law breaking.

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Since we're in Purg, do you have a link to back up these claims?

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Kevin Scott (Gateshead – High Fell)
Was convicted in 1993 for throwing a glass at a black person. Writes articles for the fascist group, the International Third Position, and regularly posts on the National Front website.

Mark Collett (Leeds – Richmond Hill)
BNP Yorkshire organiser. Claims that Adolf Hitler is his hero and that he’d prefer to live in Nazi Germany rather than today’s Britain. Formerly in the National Front. Threatened a woman with sexual violence outside a council meeting in Halifax earlier this year.

Daniel Hannam (Hull – Orchard Park and Greenwood)
Hull BNP organiser. Was sent to prison in 2000 for producing and distributing racist and antisemitic leaflets. Distributed under the BNP banner, the leaflets called for all Jews to be expelled from Britain.

James Breslin (Bradford – Great Horton)
Another Bradford BNP activist with links to the White Nationalist Party. Was photographed selling nazi newspapers alongside Tony White. Currently in jail for distributing racist material to schoolchildren, in Pudsey last year.

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Peppone generously conceded

And you were right to call me on the "real person" remark. I withdraw it and apologize to any BNP member who may have read it and felt dehumanized.

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Originally posted by Papio:
If anyone from the BNP reads my remarks on this thread and feels I ought to apologise than tough shit. I haven't said you not a person, I said that you are the lowest of the f**king low.

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...misrepresentations about asylum seekers, refugees, racism and encouragement of anti-semitism and Islamophobia...

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Racism: "Racism" is when you ‘hate’ another ethnic group. We don't 'hate' black people, we don't 'hate' Asians, ...all we want to do is to preserve the ethnic and cultural identity of the British people...We are against mixed-raced relationships because we believe that all species and races of life on this planet are beautiful and must be preserved. When whites take partners from other ethnic groups, a white family line that stretches back into deep pre-history is destroyed.

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Asylum Seekers: The United Nations states that those forced to flee persecution to claim asylum should seek refuge in the first peaceful country they come to. On this basis, generally the internationally recognised one, we will not accept those seeking asylum apart from those fleeing the countries immediately surrounding Britain, such as Holland,Iceland, France, Norway, Germany, Belgium or Ireland.

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anti-Semitism and Islamophobia: The BNP takes no particular religious position...We are, however, opposed to the growth and increased militancy of the various Asiatic religions that have been brought to this country by mass immigration.

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More people have been murdered by religious bigots than any other kind in history.

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We are, however, opposed to the growth and increased militancy of the various Asiatic religions that have been brought to this country by mass immigration.

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
If your looking for mass murderers that Stalin was more successful than the church?

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Originally posted by Peppone:
Well, they start by claiming that the church is siloent on the issue of our past sins. That's not true. Then they contrast this supposed fascistic hypocrisy with their own umblemished record of peaceful community building, democratic engagement and full accountability, when in fact they are an organization that has consistently used street violence in the pursuit of political goals, are demonstrably anti-democratic, and have never told the truth about a) their fascist ideology and b) their contemptible record of law breaking.

They've parroted what might, in the mouth of a real person, be at least some grounds for debate; but it's not criticism I'll accept from that pack of thugs.

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Originally posted by Divine Outlaw-Dwarf:
He was. And Hitler does pretty well in the murder league as well. The phenomenon of a fascist party accusing other organisations of being historically complicit in mass murder is beyond irony.

Certainly if the BNP take the standard fash line, they think Britain should have made a deal with Hitler and not fought World War II. They have given ideological shelter and support to Holocaust deniers. Altogether very nasty. And dangerous.

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"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"I had so often sung 'Deutschland u:ber Alles' and shouted 'Heil' at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction."

"Certainly we don't have to discuss these matters with the Jews, the most modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord's image."

"The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation."

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Originally posted by nonpropheteer:
Do you have any links to support BNP's "consistant street violence" and "contempltable law breaking"?

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Well, start with the link I posted above. It details the BNP's involvement in street violence and the law breaking of its members over the years.

If you mean, can I prove that it is official BNP policy to encourage street violence and break the law, then I cannot. However, the fact that it is fielding dozens of candidates who have been convicted of offences ranging from simple affray to distributing racist literature to schoolchildren (yes, illegal in the UK under our draconian public order legislation ) confirms, for me at least, that they are a political organization which does not respect the law. I also believe that a reasonable observer may conclude that the BNP, while publicly denying it, regards street hooliganism as a campaigning tool, both as a method of suppressing opposition, and as a way of, as Mosley put it, "keeping the boys happy."

Then again, I'm biased. I'm an ideological anti-fascist. I see blackshirts under the bed every time I turn around.

--------------------
I looked at the wa's o' Glasgow Cathedral, where vandals and angels painted their names,
I was clutching at straws and wrote your initials, while parish officials were safe in their hames.

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Originally posted by Peppone:
And you were right to call me on the "real person" remark. I withdraw it and apologize to any BNP member who may have read it and felt dehumanized.

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The BNP has been a political party only since 1982. The party has NEVER been involved in any political violence - unlike Sinn Fein and the I.R.A who take regular lunches with Tony Blair and have offices in the House of Commons and are to a considerable degree afforded protection by the catholic church.

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Originally posted by nonpropheteer:
Hitler made it clear in Mein Kampf that he believed he was doing God's work. Whether he was crazy or not doesn't change the fact that his mass murdering was done out of religion.

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I'm not interested in what pro-BNP sites say, or what anti-BNP sites think. I want to know the "provable" truth not a bunch of crap from people who are just as bigoted [: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices] as those they claim are morally inferior...

How do I know that the accusations against the church are exhaggerations? How do I know the accusations against the BNP are not?

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Summing up for the defence, Mr Griffin reiterated that the magazine could not be construed as inciting racial hatred, and predicted that a multi-racial jury would find him not guilty. He was wrong. The jury returned a unanimous verdict of guilty. The judge imposed a nine-month prison sentence on Mr Griffin and a six-month sentence on Mr Ballard, both sentences being suspended for two years.

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Originally posted by JimT:
It's still early here, so I took a look using Google myself. Wood is right: it's easy as pie to dig up incriminating stuff on the BNP. Here's a bunch of BBC links and a thoughtful piece on the BNP's attempted makeover into a populist "segregation" party while not alienating its "supremacist" and neo-Nazi members.

Nick Griffin's conviction on inciting racial hatred tells it all for me. Issue 12 of The Rune had a cover with a white hangman’s noose accompanied by the words “What has a rope got to do with WHITE UNITY?” An editorial “called for the unification of all ‘white nationalist’ organisations into a single body with the purpose of achieving ‘final victory over those who wish to destroy us so that they can rule forever over a mass of mongrel slaves’.”

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Summing up for the defence, Mr Griffin reiterated that the magazine could not be construed as inciting racial hatred, and predicted that a multi-racial jury would find him not guilty. He was wrong. The jury returned a unanimous verdict of guilty. The judge imposed a nine-month prison sentence on Mr Griffin and a six-month sentence on Mr Ballard, both sentences being suspended for two years.

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That tells me all I need to know. Maybe the nasty, vicious, bigoted, closed-minded multi-racial mongrel slave jury was a little hard on poor, free-thinking, peaceful, intellectual, pure-white-with-untainted-bloodlines Mr. Griffin. Let’s grant him the freedom of speech to warn whites to avoid being turned into “mongrel slaves.” Clergy from any religion, regardless of the past history of the religion to which they belong, ought to be able to say that Griffin and his party are racist and no one should vote for them, because division and hatred are likely to result. The very fact that Griffin responded with a vicious attack on religion simply because they recommended voting against his party gives evidence that he is prone to hatred.

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Originally posted by Mousethief:
They say even a broken clock is right twice a day. Why should it be newsworthy that the BNP once in a while says something true? Unless one is seeking to advance their agenda, or advance them themselves, why would one point out that such as the BNP are right in one little case (if in fact they are)? Even the KKK will be likely right in suggesting what sheet-whitening products work best.

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Originally posted by nonpropheteer:
You are taking the actions of a few and saying anyone who is a member of that goup is behaving and believes in exactly the same way. Remember our discussion about Howard Dean? I said he's a democrat so he must be a socialist dirt bag (words to that effect) and you (at least I think it was you) provided me a link to some Dean info that changed my mind and broadened my perception of the DNC...

My point is, if judging an entire group by the actions of some members of that group is unacceptable in some cases, it is unacceptable in all cases. We can either use stereo-types, or not. I hate it when the only ones we are allowed to use are those that apply to white males.

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In the aftermath of the BNP's electoral success on May 1, the Bishop of Burnley, the Rt Rev John Goddard, expressed his dismay. "It is now seen as not impossible to vote for such a party," he said. "We have crossed a line, a line which is against everything that is best in our culture."

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Why is it that everyone in the country must either hate racists or be one themselves?

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Originally posted by nonpropheteer:

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Originally posted by JimT:
Nick Griffin's conviction on inciting racial hatred tells it all for me. Issue 12 of The Rune had a cover with a white hangman’s noose accompanied by the words “What has a rope got to do with WHITE UNITY?” An editorial “called for the unification of all ‘white nationalist’ organisations into a single body with the purpose of achieving ‘final victory over those who wish to destroy us so that they can rule forever over a mass of mongrel slaves’.”

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You are taking the actions of a few and saying anyone who is a member of that goup is behaving and believes in exactly the same way.

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Originally posted by ken:

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Why is it that everyone in the country must either hate racists or be one themselves?

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Because racism is an evil sin condemned by God and the Church. If you don't hate it, you condone it

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Wood:
Nick Griffin is the party chairman, not an isolated extremist mook on the street.

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Originally posted by nonpropheteer:

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Originally posted by ken:

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Why is it that everyone in the country must either hate racists or be one themselves?

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Because racism is an evil sin condemned by God and the Church. If you don't hate it, you condone it

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Link? Racism hasn't always been condemned by the church - was it okay back then?

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Originally posted by nonpropheteer:
re: The rope as a symbol of white unity.

The rope is a symbol taken from the Turner Diaries (made infamous by Tim McVeigh) and evokes a time when the white race will get tired of being trod upon by the government/society and will rise up and destroy it, forming a new, more "perfect" society.

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You see this as a bad thing, right?

--------------------
Narcissism.

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Originally posted by nonpropheteer:
There are two different types of people that join the clan (that I am aware of). The first is the racist, the one who hates. The second, which I prefer to think of as misguided rather than "racist" (the way y'all use the word), think that minorities should have equal rights, but that whites and minorities should remain seperate.

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Originally posted by nonpropheteer:
Link? Racism hasn't always been condemned by the church - was it okay back then?

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Originally posted by nonpropheteer:
re: The rope as a symbol of white unity.
The second, which I prefer to think of as misguided rather than "racist" (the way y'all use the word), think that minorities should have equal rights, but that whites and minorities should remain seperate.

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