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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: Coming out?
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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I’m not going to dress this up as “I have a friend who thinks he might be…”, it’s about me, and I’m confused.

I know that many people will have tried a little “youthful experimentation”, but how do you know where that stops and where finding your true nature starts?

God doesn’t provide us with labels that tell us how to think or feel, and perhaps that is why it is so hard to sort out what is real from what is just thinking “the grass is greener on the other side”. Maybe I should be able to talk about this with those nearest to me, but I’m sure we all know that they can be the hardest to talk to about the really important issues – the possibility of rejection is just too much.

So many people, not least there on the Ship, seem to know just what their orientation is, but it doesn’t seem that simple. I’m just hoping that here on the Ship there will be people who may not be inclined in the same way but who at least would help in exploring the issues. How do I know, how can I tell. Is there any way of knowing for certain?

As I said, I’m confused.

I think I may be an evangelical.

[ 18. June 2003, 23:43: Message edited by: Sarkycow ]

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

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Willyburger

Ship's barber
# 658

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The litmus test is whether or not MerseyMike despises you.

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Willy, Unix Bigot, Esq.
--
Why is it that every time I go out to buy bookshelves, I come home with more books?

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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by Willyburger:
The litmus test is whether or not MerseyMike despises you.

Should I ask him? [Confused]

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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When you're having an intimate moment with someone, do you have this overwhelming desire to lean over and whisper in their ear "are you saved?"
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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
When you're having an intimate moment with someone, do you have this overwhelming desire to lean over and whisper in their ear "are you saved?"

Is that the same as having an intimate moment and asking "are you safe"?

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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Chapelhed, are you born again? Have you had a definitive moment, when you just really met with the risen Lord, and just really knew that really he died for you? Did you then just really fall to your knees, and pray the Sinner's Prayer? (Hint: that's the one that starts "Dear Lord. I am a sinner...".)

Oh, and the hellhost within asks if you wouldn't prefer this to go to All Saints, where people can give you hugs and advice about what to do. they'll probably offer to pray for you as well. Here in Hell all we'll do is take the piss [Wink] And possibly flame you.

Viki, hellhost

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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by sarkycow:
Chapelhed, are you born again? Have you had a definitive moment, when you just really met with the risen Lord, and just really knew that really he died for you? Did you then just really fall to your knees, and pray the Sinner's Prayer? (Hint: that's the one that starts "Dear Lord. I am a sinner...".)

I think I score 3.5 out of 5. Is that a pass?

quote:
Originally posted by sarkycow:
Oh, and the hellhost within asks if you wouldn't prefer this to go to All Saints, where people can give you hugs and advice about what to do. they'll probably offer to pray for you as well. Here in Hell all we'll do is take the piss [Wink] And possibly flame you.

I thought about whether this was a Hell thread, All Saints or Heaven - wasn't sure but thought folks might want to get ansty, so Hell should be that starting point.

Still not sure.

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

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Joyeux

Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851

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Chapelhead - When in a divine service, do you ever have a long-suppressed urge to clap and/or raise your hands? Do you ever yearn to say "Amen!" after a pastor/priest/speaker makes a profound point? Are you looking ahead to the time when you can sing "Shout to the Lord," "Shine, Jesus, Shine," and others without attracting the offend glares of those around you?

And on a different note...
Not to detract from Chapelhead's dilemma, I am actually encouraged to ask for help on a similar matter... politics.

I'm not right-wing, I'm a moderate, and can often see both sides (or mulitple sides) of issues. (This could make duchess fire me from the Magic 8 ball Right thread...)

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Float?...Do science too

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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by Joyeux:
Chapelhead - When in a divine service, do you ever have a long-suppressed urge to clap and/or raise your hands? Do you ever yearn to say "Amen!" after a pastor/priest/speaker makes a profound point? Are you looking ahead to the time when you can sing "Shout to the Lord," "Shine, Jesus, Shine," and others without attracting the offend glares of those around you?

Not really, but I am usually awake - which puts me ahead of a number of the congregation. Perhaps it's something about the church I go to?

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

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Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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Chapelhead, for God’s sake man stay in the closet, put aside all ideas of justification and inerrancy. Do you want to become a social pariah? Do you want your friends and family to shun you, to speak of you in hushed tones? Go now, at once, and throw out of your cupboard all your gray polyester trousers, take down that copy of something by Stot that you put another cover on and hid on the top shelf.

Remember that you many temporary solace falling backwards in to the arms of another “evo” but will you be able to face yourself ? They may all encourage you but you know He won’t respect you in the morning.

P

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It is better to be Kind than right.

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Callan
Shipmate
# 525

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Dear Chapelhead,

A swift perusal of Issues in Human Sexuality suggests that, whilst the Church understands that evangelicalism is condemned by scripture and tradition, it is willing to accept the evophile in it's midst who cannot conscientiously accept the Church's teaching. Officially Evangelicals cannot be ordained but unofficially, I understand that some DDOs ignore the official line. I think part of the issue is whether you are in a stable relationship with the Church of England or whether you are a member of the militant group Reform.

I hope this helps. I understand that there is a strong ex-evangelical ministry in a number of liberal and Anglo-Catholic churches.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Go now, at once, and throw out of your cupboard all your gray polyester trousers,

[Embarrassed]

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

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hatless

Shipmate
# 3365

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Considering the possibility that you might, or then again might not, be something. Asking others and being open to their suggestions. Being prepared to share your embarrassment at your nether region clothing choices. These things are not Evangelical now, are they? Evangelicals do not permit undecided questions, do not entertain alarming possibilities, and do not wear gray polyester trousers shamefacedly, but assertively.

But you might be evangelical, of course. That's evangelical with a little 'e.' Evangelicals, firm, decided, confident. Evangelicals, who knows? (That last 'evangelical' had a small 'e' but you couldn't tell because it was at the start of a sentence.)

PS Aren't you an exBaptist, or something? It's hard to excape without a bit of evo sticking to you.

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My crazy theology in novel form

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Sean D
Cheery barman
# 2271

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Quick, gather round folks. I need candles, a bit of incense, maybe some icons, and a copy of JAT Robinson's Honest to God.

That's right: there's only one solution. Exorcism. If anyone knows Latin, get chanting.

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postpostevangelical
http://www.stmellitus.org/

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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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I got a bell if you want it...

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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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JimT

Ship'th Mythtic
# 142

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Look, let's be honest. We all have Evangelical urges. That's a scientific fact. The question is do you act on those urges? Are you a practicing Evangelical?

Please remember: we all love Evangelicals, even if we, well...I don't even want to finish that.

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Louise
Shipmate
# 30

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I just want you to know that I am so liberal that I think it might even be OK for evangelicals to have sex.

What's more I think they should be allowed to get married and raise children, although I know this is not a popular view. There's nothing wrong with two evangelicals having sex. Really. It isn't a perversion. I'm not squicked out. Not at all. They have uh... a perfect right to do that if they want. It's not disgusting. I think children should be taught about these kinds of things in sex education, um... in case, you know, they turn out to be evangelical, so um... they know what to do. Stuff like safe witnessing and that sort of thing.

So there. See? My credentials with this persecuted minority group are impeccable.

L.

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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.

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RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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Fuck the labels.
Anyone who focusses primarily on a label is usually missing the point.

Which, of course, leads me to suspect that most of you are missing the point.

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Benedictus
Shipmate
# 1215

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Louise: [Killing me]

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Resentment: Me drinking poison and expecting them to die

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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271

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Gosh, RooK, aren't we being just a little serious? Who spit in your cornflakes?

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No longer the Bishop of Durham
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If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin

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JimT

Ship'th Mythtic
# 142

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Fuck the labels...most of you are missing the point.

You are such a textbook cynic.
Posts: 2619 | From: Now On | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Don't do it, Chapelhead! I came out as an evangelical, oh, maybe 20 years ago, and I have been paying for it ever since. Fortunately God is merciful and healed me of my evangelicalism, and I am now married to a perfectly Orthodox wife. Some people think that you're born evangelical or not, or that it's something that can never change. Thanks be to God, this is not true! You too can emerge from the guilt and shame of evangelicalism into the clear light of historical Christianity!

Reader Alexis

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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quote:
Originally posted by JimT:
You are such a textbook cynic.

I didn't realize that cunningly nested innuendo was a particularly cynical trait. While there was definitely a lick of cynicism in my last post, I was also revelling in my abilities as a cunning linguist.
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JimT

Ship'th Mythtic
# 142

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"Lick"? "Cunning Ling..." Oh, I get it.
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KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I was also revelling in my abilities as a cunning linguist.

Well, I'm glad it was good for you. [Snigger]

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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction

My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com

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FCB

Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495

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quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
What's more I think they should be allowed to get married and raise children, although I know this is not a popular view.

Scientific studies have shown that children with evangelical parents are no more likely to grow up to be evangelicals than the rest of the population.

However, I still don't think they should be allowed in the boyscouts.

FCB

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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.

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Not

Ship's Quack
# 2166

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It's just a phase Chapelhead; you'll grow out of it soon enough. Try and find some other interests...like line dancing or stamp collecting. You aren't in much danger if you're just dabbling, but you don't want to get too involved - whatever you do don't agree to go away to any out of season Butlins camps or you will be lost forever...

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Was CJ; now Not

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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Aren't you an exBaptist, or something? It's hard to excape without a bit of evo sticking to you.

True - and I'm impressed that you remembered.

quote:
Originally posted by JimT:
Look, let's be honest. We all have Evangelical urges.

Are you trying to tell us something, JimT?

quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
I just want you to know that I am so liberal that I think it might even be OK for evangelicals to have sex.

Thank you.

quote:
Originally posted by CJ:
whatever you do don't agree to go away to any out of season Butlins camps or you will be lost forever.

Even if I don't "go all the way" and actually attend any of the meetings? [Frown]

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

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Ham'n'Eggs

Ship's Pig
# 629

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I have a confession to make.

Although resolved in my mind that I am not an evangelical, I recently attended an out-of-season Butlins camp.

My reasoning is that evangelicalism is for the kiddies, and I am happy for them to have a dose of it interspersed with their fix of Noddy's Toyland.

I am a fully functioning adult. I can pick'n'mix the good bits (social action, taking God seriously), and filter out the gunk.

And I didn't go to any of the main meetings. (Two days of Norwalk induced heaving had some bearing on this.)

What could possibly be wrong with this approach? [Confused]

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"...the heresies that men do leave / Are hated most of those they did deceive" - Will S


Posts: 3103 | From: Genghis Khan's sleep depot | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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H & E , go and look up "Denial" in the text books.

P

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It is better to be Kind than right.

Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ham'n'Eggs

Ship's Pig
# 629

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[Razz]

I deny that I am in denial.

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"...the heresies that men do leave / Are hated most of those they did deceive" - Will S


Posts: 3103 | From: Genghis Khan's sleep depot | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
hatless

Shipmate
# 3365

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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Aren't you an exBaptist, or something? It's hard to excape without a bit of evo sticking to you.

True - and I'm impressed that you remembered.

Thing is, I still am a Baptist. So how did you do it? Is there a secret hatch somewhere - I've searched the baptistry thoroughly, with and without water in it. Is there a number you have to call? Is there a group of people I can identify myself to, by means of a special handshake, perhaps, or little messages slipped into the hymn books?

It's all very well you toying with the idea of coming out as an Evangelical from a position of safety, having escaped to freedom. I can see that it has a sort of retro-theology appeal if you keep things playful. But I have to live amongst them, appear to be one of them, look as if I'm enjoying it all. How did you do it? Tell me Chapelhead, PLEEEASE!!!

Do you know what the worst bit is? It's the blueness. The carpet is blue, the curtains are blue, the walls are blue, even the hymn books are blue - the ones before were green so they bought blue covers for them. What colour is it where you are, Chapelhead? Do you want to go back to blue?

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My crazy theology in novel form

Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
'Justus'
Shipmate
# 2424

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It's simple really. If you still like Quiche you must be an evangelical
Posts: 295 | From: York | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
GeordieDownSouth
Shipmate
# 4100

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I'm afraid donuts are the new quiche.

Do you find it impossible to say the words "The Lord" without undue emphasis in any reading of the bible or prayer?

Posts: 689 | From: Birmingham | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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...... we just want to say, DEAR LORD, how very sorry we are for this thread ......

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It is better to be Kind than right.

Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194

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I like to think I am on open and accepting person. Why, some of my best friends are evangelicals! Er, that's a slight exageration... um... er.... I think my cleaning lady may be.....
Anyway, I am as open as possible, but I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one... Well, you know how it is.... Actually I don't HAVE a daughter, but still.....
walks off muttering inanities....

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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...

Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lots of Yay

Cookies enabled
# 2790

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This thread is giving me an identity crisis! I thought I was evangelical but:

1) As far as I know Merseymike doesn't despise me (although this could be because our paths haven't crossed)
2) I've never asked anyone if they're saved. In fact I don't think I ever use the word 'saved' unless in a sporting or cooking context (and not cooking in lakes of boiling sulfur either).
3) I've never prayed the sinners prayer
4) I don't clap, arm wave or shout amen in church.
5) Shine Jesus Shine [Projectile]
6) I don't spend considerable proportions of my time fretting about homosexuality, the ordination of women or those evil Catholics.
7) I own no garments made of grey polyester
8) My father was brought up RC and my mother was brought up in a fairly AC diocese.
9) I don't like quiche
10) LORD is not a form of punctuation in my prayers and is not emphasised.
11) My closest friends are Coptic Orthodox, RC and nominal buddhist.

So what am I??? [Confused]

Or are all those traits big E evangelical things? Could I, a resident of Sydney, possibly be a small e evangelical??

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Current status: idle
Tales of Variable Yayness
Photos of stuff. Including Pooka!

Posts: 2006 | From: the plasticine room | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ham'n'Eggs

Ship's Pig
# 629

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Whenever my Chinese biology teacher said the word "Gonads", it sounded exactly like "donuts", reducing many of my classmates to writhing helplessly on the floor. (Strangely, I remember little else from his tuition.)

Perhaps there is a lesson here that the Lord has for us?

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"...the heresies that men do leave / Are hated most of those they did deceive" - Will S


Posts: 3103 | From: Genghis Khan's sleep depot | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
chickpea
Apprentice
# 4554

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Chapelhead, I know how you feel. After years of heartache and soul-searching, I finally admitted to myself that I am an evangelical. However, that is not how the world sees me. Eager to embrace my identity, I joined the evangelical community, go to bible studies and have even raised my hands in worship. However, they all seem to think I'm a wooly liberal, whereas all my liberal friends struggle to talk to me now I have come out.

What am I?!?!?!

Posts: 8 | From: somewhere over the rainbow | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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LoYay - I think I score differently from you on 8 out of 11 on that list.

So I must not only be an Evangelical but a cliched Evangelical.

Perhaps we should open a chapel at Charing Cross called "Half Way to the Fundament".

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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This thread is killing me, all we need now is Don Milky to grace us with his tales of woe and my life will be complete.

P

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It is better to be Kind than right.

Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Richard P
Apprentice
# 4553

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Lo, I to was once an 'evangelical' I even attended what was known to be an evangelical bible college. Verily there was arm waving and claping during the 'empowering songs' and the gentle soothing rocking back and forth during the 'slow ones'at the devotional times each morning. Most of the speakers were 'sound' apart for one or two who were invited to give us pactice in tearing down the hellish armies of 'unsound doctrine'. At this bible college there was one man called 'Jim' who had infiltrated the ranks of evangelicalism and provided a way out for those willing to go down the rabbit hole. Since I entered this world of hightened evangelicalisim I had a feeling that something wasn't right, that there was something more than Stott, and theology based on the Bible speaks today series. One day I was contacted by 'Jims' assistant and told that 'Jim' wanted to see me, I thought could this be the answer I have been looking for?? What is the evangelical church? I sat down on a chair in his room and 'Jim ' told me how it has been his mission in life to look for the one, the one to lead others into the truth and now he hoped his search was over. He picked up a small pill box, opened it and emptied two pill into his hands. He told me that I had to make a choice, to take the blue pill, go back to the all night bible study of Mica Ch1 v 2-6, and forget all that had happened, or take the red pill and get an answer to my question. I took the red pill and the rest?? Well thats history... [Two face] [Paranoid]

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His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a tumble dryer.

Posts: 6 | From: South Wales | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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ChapelHead, there are other options...

I think of myself as bi-spiritual. I am generally quite demure, I enjoy quiteness and reflection - long walks with other Anglicans, that kind of thing, but just occasionally 'Shine Jesus Shine' will rouse me. I find I can appreciate evangelicals without actually fancying the lifestyle, if you catch my drift.

I think my life choice is Anglican, but theres a bit of evangelical buried inside me.

Go bi; it's the best way.

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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quote:
but theres a bit of evangelical buried inside me.

[Eek!] which bit and where?

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It is better to be Kind than right.

Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by IntellectByProxy:


I think of myself as bi-spiritual.
Go bi; it's the best way.

IBP, has a point.
Like certain CofE Bishops, my spirituality is a bit of a grey area.

And I must confess <intense racking Princess Diana/Bashir moment style sob> that there has always been more than one churchmanship in this faith-marriage.

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Royal Peculiar
Shipmate
# 3159

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How long have you felt this way, Chapelhead? And have you told your Mother?

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Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.

Oscar Wilde

Posts: 405 | From: Barking, London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15

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Look, let's be clear about this - no-one who is a practicing Evangelical is part of the Kingdom. Period. It's all very well being oh-so-liberal and PC, but we're talking about salvation issues here. As Paul said, fornicators, thieves, people who live in Surrey and Evangelicals are the sorts of people who simply aren't on God's radar.

We all know about 9/11 - that it was God's judgement on America for letting Tony Campolo happen. Frankly, if we let Evangelicals into our churches, we might as well let paedophiles and accountants in as well. This is just the thin end of the slippery slope that's paved with good intentions.

You people make me sick. You'll be suggesting married clergy next.

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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt

Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Janine

The Endless Simmer
# 3337

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I feel the urge to Come Forward and Confess to the Congregation.

Repressed memories come flooding back...

Me, lying upon my virginal 14-yr-old bed, feeling evangelical urges and begging God to please make His will plain to me, as I wasn't getting any help with them from my RC priest...

I begged, stretched across that bed, I pleaded for what I would later come to know as a "Damascus Road Experience", although my ignorant-of-Evangel-speak Catholic mind knew nothing of such terminology at the time...

The LORD soon thereafter sent me the young man who was to become my husband: Mike, a rampant evangelical, and a right-winger to boot. A well-muscled, virile, football-playing beast, who was to fulfill every lustful desire for Evangelical Intercourse I ever so much as dreamed of.

So now, 26 years later, I dwell joyously in the Tents of the Evangelical Camp, replete and satisfied and looking like the cat that swallowed the cream-covered canary. The Evangelical Lifestyle appears to be what I was made for.

Embrace your Inner Evangelist, I say! Be free!

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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *

Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
quote:
but theres a bit of evangelical buried inside me.

[Eek!] which bit and where?
I told you I had experimented with evangelicality, but That.Does.Not.Make.Me.Evangelical.

What I did in foolish moments of my youth does not shape me now. It still itches occasionally, but mostly I am over it. I was cured, praise the Lord (quietly)

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sean D
Cheery barman
# 2271

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Dyrig, [Killing me] ROFLMAO.

LoY - there is one final test, if you are prepared to take it. You seem a brave kinda chap to me. Head ye over to Duchess' magic 8 ball right thread and if she agrees with you, you are an evangelical and need to get in line after Chapelhead for exorcism.

If she disagrees with you, calls you names and whips your butt, you are free, and need to move out of Sydney [Snigger]

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postpostevangelical
http://www.stmellitus.org/

Posts: 2126 | From: North and South Kensington | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged



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