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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Dear American police
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I give up. I can no longer find any ways to support you in these cases.
I've tried before, you might remember. In one or two instances I argued that a particular high-profile case might not be an appropriate emblem for what police are doing to black Americans, because in those individual cases there was evidence that backed you up. Ferguson was one. Remember? There was some decent evidence that the guy might have gone for your gun.
But every time you're in the clear for one of these cases, another policeman pushes the boundary a little bit further. Let's shoot a kid with a toy gun the second we get out of the car? Okay, that seems to be okay so let's push it a bit further. Let's throw someone into a van and crack his spine? Ooh, tricky, there'll be a trial for that one.
We're getting things on video now. Sometimes multiple camera angles. We're getting people shot while restrained, down on the ground. We're getting cooperative people without criminal records shot just so we can bypass the arguments about whether the black guy somehow "deserved" it.
I just can't follow you down the path any longer. I can't support supposed professionals who exhibit total panic in any kind of confrontation. I can't support supposed professionals in a country where people are legally armed (and where suggestions keep arising that victims of mass shootings should have been armed) who freak out at the presence of a gun and seem unable to think about whether or not the gun is actually being used.
Too many of you lack the skills you're supposed to have, and the institutions of the legal system have been protecting you from the consequences of your failure. You've been enabled.
I don't want to keep enabling you. I'm out.
[ 07. July 2016, 23:19: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
My thoughts exactly only said better.
Tell a man to produce his registration and then shoot him for reaching in his pocket?
Pin a man down with two police on top of him and then shoot him at close range?
Did they have no training at all?
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Orfeo, your thoughts should appear in a box prominently displayed on the front page of every newspaper in the country.
I'd vote for a constitutional amendment disarming police.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Well said, Orfeo. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
It's about time.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Only now I have to rail against the murder of police officers. For fuck's sake.
THIS is someone's idea of a solution? A civil war?
[ 08. July 2016, 04:17: Message edited by: orfeo ]
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Watching TV news. So far, it seems that, of the nationwide protests, Dallas, TX is the only one that got violent. 11 cops shot, 4 of them killed. Snipers--possibly 2 of them--still on the loose. It's horrible that it happened. I don't know anything about the snipers. But, if they're African-American, they may have decided they'd had enough.
I do not support what they did, and I don't support what the cops in the recent killings did. But I don't think we're at civil war, yet. Please don't call that down on us.
I'm thinking/hoping this is more like the extensive unrest of the '60s and '70s. I hope so, because we got through that. May be wishful thinking.
We could be near a tipping point. If things go badly, much worse stuff could be set loose--guns, militias, hate groups, scared people, disturbed people who want to make a name for themselves, anyone who wants to settle an injustice or grudge, etc. Add in the presidential campaign, the clash of world views, a messed up Congress...
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Is there a way to tip in a better direction? I don't know.
ETA: a couple of people in custody, now--one suspect, and one person of interest.
[ 08. July 2016, 04:48: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
They but eat the fruit of the tree they planted.*
And this will fuel their fear and resistance to change; more deaths will occur.
*Don't be stupid, I am not saying the killings of the police have been justified.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
double post to say I did not know about the Dallas shootings when I posted, saw the reference in cliffdweller's x-post.
Doesn't make what I posted wrong, just that I might have written it differently.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Is there a way to tip in a better direction?
Yes. There needs to be a fundamental change in the way police treat people, especially people of colour.
They need to be held to the same level of accountability as civilians, actually a higher level, but the same would be a massive improvement.
The situation would not have occurred if time after time they did not treat people they are tasked to protect with disregard.
No plasters, the beast needs major surgery.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Al Eluia
Inquisitor
# 864
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Posted
It wouldn't surprise me if the shooters in Dallas are hoping to start a race war. But that's total speculation at this point.
This makes me sick on many levels. For one, I work for a police agency (in a civilian position) and I get tired of the assertion that all cops are bad, though I get the anger, and share it, when police shoot someone without justification. Like many people I grieve for the police who were shot in Dallas. For another, I think we still have a long way to go in this country on the racial justice front. Killings, in particular of black men, by police on the flimsiest of pretexts have to stop. I'm afraid the killings in Dallas are just going to intensify the backlash against groups like Black Lives Matter.
It would also help if police departments had meaningful community oversight of police practices, especially use of force, but in too many instances that is not the case.
[ 08. July 2016, 05:10: Message edited by: Al Eluia ]
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Consider helping out the Anglican Seminary in El Salvador with a book or two! https://www.amazon.es/registry/wishlist/YDAZNSAWWWBT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_ws_7IRSzbD16R9RQ
https://www.episcopalcafe.com/a-seminary-is-born-in-el-salvador/
Posts: 1157 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
They but eat the fruit of the tree they planted.*
And this will fuel their fear and resistance to change; more deaths will occur.
*Don't be stupid, I am not saying the killings of the police have been justified.
No, you're just saying that there's a collective "they" so that the cop who dies is just eating from the same fruit as every cop who made the other "they" hate "them".
This thread is about me saying that reform has to be collective. And I'm fine with some form of collective consequences as well. Death is not a collective consequence.
And if you didn't know about Dallas... well, what you're saying isn't any better if you had previous attacks on police in mind.
[ 08. July 2016, 06:31: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
lB--
Do you think your half-formed apology is sufficient? I don't.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
Neither should anyone, GK. lil B's post was pretty despicable in any context. But to defend it after hearing of the Dallas shootings is putting the saving of face over common decency.
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
My understanding is that sniping is difficult, is it likely the shooters are ex-military or ex-police themselves ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
My understanding is that sniping is difficult, is it likely the shooters are ex-military or ex-police themselves ?
It's even more difficult if you don't have a gun.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Looks like some people are looking for a civil war.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
BBC are also reporting they shot protestors.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
BBC are also reporting they shot protestors.
There's certainly a degree of confusion over the targeting at the moment. I've seen one witness report portraying it as police stepping in front of protesters to protect the protesters. On the other hand, some of the discussion about the suspect that is still holed up in a parking garage has suggested an intent to target law enforcement.
As is usual with these things, it'll take a while to be certain about what went on and the motives. Right this second I think they're still focusing on trying to ensure there are no more deaths. It's not a finished situation.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I fear that there may be further civil unrest. That streamed video footing was dreadful in what it revealed. So was the sniping.
[ 08. July 2016, 07:55: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
A fifth officer has died. Evidently, one civilian was shot; not sure of their condition. The cops have been negotiating (and exchanging fire) with one suspect for hours, and he said "this is the end", and that there are bombs all over downtown Dallas. I hope he's lying.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
I'm not sure what I have to apologise for.
The policemen murdered did not deserve to be murdered.
Their murderers are despicable and in no way justified. And they, the snipers, are responsible for their own actions.
It remains that the police, general, created the atmosphere in which this occurred.
Is this clear enough? Am I still a beast? If I am, I don't fucking care. I feel no less anger at the snipers than I do at the police who kill innocent/undeserving of death civilians. It is the same rage.
This is not an apology, it isn't meant to be in any way. It is a clarification.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It remains that the police, general, created the atmosphere in which this occurred.
Which is not what your previous statement conveyed. "Created the atmosphere" is not, in my view, equivalent to "eating the fruit of the tree they planted".
Not when "they" who planted and "they" who ate aren't automatically the same people. And it's not the "police, general" who are dead. It's police officers with names. And families. Who aren't the same individual police officers who "kill innocent/undeserving of death civilians"
It's interesting, really. You've simultaneously managed to do the same kind of "let's lump them all together into an amorphous mass" that we're constantly saying ought not happen to Muslims, and also a bit of the victim-blaming that we object to when people start debating whether raped women created their own misfortune.
But hey, it's all fine, right? It's COPS. Authority figures. Punching upwards in stereotypes and victim blaming is FINE. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ 08. July 2016, 11:17: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
I'm afraid the killings in Dallas are just going to intensify the backlash against groups like Black Lives Matter.
Ya think?
One thing is for certain this morning, nobody gives a shit about the dead pedophile, violent felon in Baton Rouge or the guy in MN who may or may not have been properly trained to concealed carry.
A measure of responsibility lies with the girlfriend who streamed what's-his-names death in a video designed to inflame and nothing else. There is nothing useful in it. The events leading to the shooting aren't recorded. What you have is a dying man, a clearly panicked cop, and a woman more concerned with videoing than attempting to help her boyfriend or attend to her 4 year old child, who can be heard attempting to comfort the mother!
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
BLM mentality on full display...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
It's always good to get lessons in responsibility from romanlion.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It's always good to get lessons in responsibility from romanlion.
No it isn't. Kill me now.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Ya think?
One thing is for certain this morning, nobody gives a shit about the dead pedophile, violent felon in Baton Rouge or the guy in MN who may or may not have been properly trained to concealed carry.
A measure of responsibility lies with the girlfriend who streamed what's-his-names death in a video designed to inflame and nothing else. There is nothing useful in it. The events leading to the shooting aren't recorded. What you have is a dying man, a clearly panicked cop, and a woman more concerned with videoing than attempting to help her boyfriend or attend to her 4 year old child, who can be heard attempting to comfort the mother!
BLM mentality on full display...
Romanlion, allow me to say this - fuck you. With whatever is handy. Your bigotry is showing.
BTW, ever been held at gunpoint by a cop? I have. I don't think doing anything except trying to not get shot was on that lady's mind. Trust me on this.
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For the non-mouthbreathers (warning: strong language to follow):
This. Is. Fucked. Up.
Philando Castile died all of 20 minutes from our house if traffic is heavy.
I spent part of last evening at a very emotional demonstration outside the Governor's mansion. While there were folks who were very upset (and have a damned good reason to be), the crowd was peaceful, diverse, and united. I pray it stays that way. This shit has fucking well got to stop. That could just as easily be one of my friends, my co-workers, or my beloved niece. This. Shit. Has. Got. To. Stop.
I don't care if you're black, white, Asian, Hispanic, or anyone else. I don't care if you're a liberal Democrat or a conservative Republican (or whatever you support politically speaking). Christian, Muslim, Jew, Ba'hai, Buhddist, whatever you believe, wherever you're from - we have got to stop this. Enough is enough. When did our police become an occupying army? When did "Protect and Serve" become an empty slogan? And how do we fix it?
Before someone says it - I KNOW not all police are the problem. There comes a time, however, when not acting to stop injustice becomes actively participating in its commission. That time has come.
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As regards Dallas - I'm saddened. But I'm not shocked. People are just plain fed up.
I'm crying for the country, the state, and the area I love.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I’m expecting this to turn out to something far more complicated. I am the only one suspecting that the perpetrators of this attack are likely going to turn out to be white?
The Dallas Police Chief just gave a press conference stating that there was only one perpetrator and he wanted to kill police officers and white people.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I’m expecting this to turn out to something far more complicated. I am the only one suspecting that the perpetrators of this attack are likely going to turn out to be white?
Well, I was wondering about that, as I've not seen anything yet which says they were black, and sure as eggs is eggs, that's usually the first "detail" which news reports on this sort of thing in the US mention. However, a bit early to say yet.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
It was written into our country's founding documents that black folks aren't fully human. And we're still struggling with the consequences of that. Slavery was replaced with Jim Crow. Jim Crow was replaced with redlinig, the school-to-prison pipeline, and the war on drugs (which was just a loosely disguised war on blacks).
It can't shock any human being that injustice on this scale erupts into violence from time to time. It would be shocking if that never happened.
My heart breaks for the black community, and for the community of police officers and their families. They didn't create this system. They're all victims of it.
Whether any individual officer is culpable for any individual killing doesn't really matter. The killing of black people by cops and "good guys with guns" (and the killings of cops by people who see them as an unjust occupying force) will continue until we, as a nation, as a culture, come to our senses and repent. Like the people of Ninevah, we need to fast in sackcloth and ashes, and perhaps God will have mercy on us.
But as long as white people call the cops in a panic to report a black man buying a toy gun in Walmart, or a black child playing with a toy gun in a park ...
as long as a black teen walking through a white neighborhood draws the unfriendly attention of the neighborhood watch ...
as long as we tell black people that if they'd just do what the police say they wouldn't get shot, when that is manifestly not true ...
as long as our retirement plans grow from the profits of private prisons and prison transport companies ...
as long as the AI designed by white men identifies black men as gorillas ...
as long as white teachers and principals think it's okay for police to handle the childish misbehavior by black children ...
The wages of sin is death.
To regard another human being as less than an icon of Christ is a sin akin to blasphemy. Christ took on human nature in the Incarnation. He shares our human nature in very much the same way that he shares the divine nature with the Father and the Spirit. That means that when he told us, "whatever you do to the least of these, you do to me," that's analogous to "when you see me, you have seen the Father who sent me."
May God have mercy on our nation, and on each of us.
We're living that truth.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Re Dallas police shootings, still waiting for the NRA response.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Thank you for this, Josephine!
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Re Dallas police shootings, still waiting for the NRA response.
"If the people in the street had been armed this would not have happened"
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
A whole load of bullshit
Just go back under whichever slime covered rock you've been cowering under.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
Amen, Josephine.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
Josephine -
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
…a woman more concerned with videoing than attempting to help her boyfriend or attend to her 4 year old child, who can be heard attempting to comfort the mother!
And how do you suppose she was supposed to attempt to help her boyfriend or comfort her child in the face of repeated instructions from the armed officer who had just shot her boyfriend to "keep your hands where they are"?
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
So much of all this has been exacerbated by guns. Texas loves their guns, the NRA loves Texas, and now it's in Texas that we are seeing an example of a bad guy with a gun and about a hundred "good guys" with guns, well trained in gun use, unable to bring him down. Good positioning will always win over numbers when it domes to guns. Probably all those officers died with guns in their hands.
Maybe now a few more people will see that the recent mass shootings in public would not necessarily been stopped if everyone had been armed. Maybe men will see that having a concealed weapon makes you in more danger, not less, and guns in the home are 20 times more likely to result in a family member's death than "protection."
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I haven't seen the video, but I have heard part of it as the woman narrates what happened.
I think, given the history of police approaches to black people, videoing was only sensible. It waas collecting evidence, not doing some selfie rubbish for social media, for heaven's sake.
And, after the description of the harm done by the shots, the other thing which shocked me was her repeated use of 'sir'. I know Americans use it more than we do, but this sounded to me only a breath away from 'boss', that she had to emphasise that she was their inferior, had to appease the dominant person. And I realise that when she, as stated above, had to work to make sure she stayed alive (and in possession of her video), use of as many 'sirs' as she could muster was essential. It says something about the relative status of police and black people that is totally wrong.
I know that some people are incredibly rude to our police (I'm not sure how many of the elite are as rude as they are portrayed in TV drama, of course), but I also know that our police can be very polite, even when they have some reasonable doubts about what one is up to. The 'sirs' and 'madams' tend to flow in the other way, while we use terms like 'officer' to them. (Though I don't know how our police speak to the black drivers they stop, including the Archbishop of York, back when he was only a bishop.)
But the poor guys who thought they were just enabling a peaceful demo, and their families. While the perpetrators of the black deaths don't get hit.
I heard someone on the radio claiming that the American police do not shoot more black people than whites, but the black people are shot at a greater rate than white people. He said it twice. I didn't understand it either time.
[ 08. July 2016, 15:00: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I heard someone on the radio claiming that the American police do not shoot more black people than whites, but the black people are shot at a greater rate than white people. He said it twice. I didn't understand it either time.
This could mean one of two things.
1. Say for purposes of demonstration that 80% of the population is white and 20% is black. Say that cops shoot 100 people a year, but 70 of them are white and 30 are black. They shoot more white people, but the ratio of blacks to whites shot is greater than the ratio of blacks to whites in the population.
2. Given the same national demographic, suppose they interact with 80 white people and 20 black people every day. Of those, they shoot the white person 10% of the time, but the black person 25% of the time. Then they are shooting more white people than black (8 to 5), but the rate at which they shoot black people is clearly higher.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
There are considerably more white people than black people, but the likelihood is the same? So, they're targeted (much) more frequently.
[ETA: Crossposted with the Ship's Thieving Rodent]
[ 08. July 2016, 15:14: Message edited by: Wesley J ]
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
Just heard that "the suspect" has been blown up & killed, naturally, by a robot toting an explosive device. That's the way to handle naughty people.. blow em up. Just like they (& we) do it in the mid.East.
If they could send in a bomb on the bot, WHY couldn't they send in a pacifying gas of some kind to immobilize the guy?
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
Posts: 3622 | From: The Keystone State | Registered: May 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It remains that the police, general, created the atmosphere in which this occurred.
Which is not what your previous statement conveyed. "Created the atmosphere" is not, in my view, equivalent to "eating the fruit of the tree they planted".
Granted, not the clearest thing I have written but it does not contradict what I wrote after.
It is not blaming British people who died from Luftwaffe bombing to say Britain helped foster the conditions in which WWII occurred.
Nor is it blaming those police who died to say that the police in general have done the same.
In general, not in total. There is a difference.
I'm curious, though. Are you calling me a liar here?
Or just nitpricking my wording?
Another question. What do you mean by reform needs to be "collective"?
My first impression is not favourable, but I would rather know more before I castigate you for ignorance.
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
[qb] I'm afraid the killings in Dallas are just going to intensify the backlash against groups like Black Lives Matter.
Ya think?
Someone needs to because you, obviously, don't.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I think, given the history of police approaches to black people, videoing was only sensible. It waas collecting evidence, not doing some selfie rubbish for social media, for heaven's sake.
And, after the description of the harm done by the shots, the other thing which shocked me was her repeated use of 'sir'. I know Americans use it more than we do, but this sounded to me only a breath away from 'boss', that she had to emphasise that she was their inferior, had to appease the dominant person. And I realise that when she, as stated above, had to work to make sure she stayed alive (and in possession of her video), use of as many 'sirs' as she could muster was essential. It says something about the relative status of police and black people that is totally wrong.
1. When you're pulled over by the police, "yes, sir," and "no, ma'am" are what you do. Even I was taught that one. Never, ever give the person with the gun and the power any excuse to abuse either. Ever.
2. They were pulled over for a broken taillight. Seriously. Broken taillight. Can't make that up. The classic Jim Crow driving while black ticket. It's the stuff of "good people live here, you best be moving along if you know what's good for ya, don't want trouble now," a shorthand for all sorts of tolerated abuse of the law. That it actually happened is a kind of very sick joke.
3. So when you get pulled over for the sick joke of traffic stops, OF COURSE you film. Of course you record. Even had nobody been shot, there likely would have been a complaint. You want evidence. You want witnesses. And what they witnessed...
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
Just heard that "the suspect" has been blown up & killed, naturally, by a robot toting an explosive device. That's the way to handle naughty people.. blow em up. Just like they (& we) do it in the mid.East.
If they could send in a bomb on the bot, WHY couldn't they send in a pacifying gas of some kind to immobilize the guy?
Because the stuff that knocks you out instantaneously only exists on the telly and you really don't want a guy with an automatic rifle emptying his mag whilst you wait for the effects of RL pacifying gas to kick in.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Can we thank God - and I mean it - for the fact that no suicide bombings by 'the oppressed' (whoever, real and imagined, they ever are) have occurred in the US yet, with regard to all this?
Heaven forbid! I hope and pray that the Christian legacy at least in the black community is alive enough and vivid and valid, such as to prevent this from happening. I shudder at the thought.
I wonder what others think?
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
Good enough, Callan. Thank you. I listen to too many Old Time Radio detective and crime shows.
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
Posts: 3622 | From: The Keystone State | Registered: May 2006
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
2. They were pulled over for a broken taillight. Seriously. Broken taillight. Can't make that up. The classic Jim Crow driving while black ticket. It's the stuff of "good people live here, you best be moving along if you know what's good for ya, don't want trouble now," a shorthand for all sorts of tolerated abuse of the law. That it actually happened is a kind of very sick joke.
I don't know. My (white) son has been pulled over at different times for broken taillight, broken windshield wiper, and loud muffler.
I've been pulled over for "circling the block too many times," in the city and for driving too slow on the empty streets of a residential neighborhood (I have a bit of a phobia about hitting a child, I crawl through such areas.)
I don't find anything odd in pulling over someone with a broken tail light. It's standard to address the officer as sir and it's standard for the officer to ask the driver to produce his license and registration. What's not standard is shooting him when he reaches for them.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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