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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Clocks
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Net Spinster
Shipmate
# 16058
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Posted
It is fairly obvious that humans in higher latitudes have to migrate in the winter season. Perhaps every village, town, city should have a sister village, town, city in a more hospitable clime. The population of Glasgow could move to its sister city Havana.
I did check where the equivalent location in the southern hemisphere (at least in latitude) would be, but, I doubt Tierra del Fuego would appeal.
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spinner of webs
Posts: 1093 | From: San Francisco Bay area | Registered: Dec 2010
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
It's freaking freezing! You want something closer to the equator, not an equal latitude length away!
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Global warming will fix that.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Net Spinster
Shipmate
# 16058
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
It's freaking freezing! You want something closer to the equator, not an equal latitude length away!
I was thinking summer to summer. But 55 South is freezing everywhere even though plenty of sunlight in the summer (Glasgow should thank the Gulf Stream). While checking on sister/twin cities I get a feeling that some places overdo it. I mean I thought my town was overdoing it with 6 but Glasgow has 8 (and Havana has apparently 28 [including Mobile, Alabama]).
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spinner of webs
Posts: 1093 | From: San Francisco Bay area | Registered: Dec 2010
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Just checked - 55 south passes through the very southern tip of Sth America, and then some minor islets. A maritime latitude.
Glasgow is lucky to have the Gulf Stream to keep it as warm as it is - even with that, the climate's pretty awful.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Glasgow is lucky to have the Gulf Stream to keep it as warm as it is - even with that, the climate's pretty awful.
Well, thank you for your kind assessment of the climate here. We have summers which rarely get to stupid hot temperatures. We have winters that rarely get stupidly cold. We have mountains with cascading waterfalls and lochs, and snow in the winter. We have some storms, but rarely anything that causes damage. We don't have to worry about water shortages or wondering if it's ethically acceptable to water the lawn to keep it green.
You should come and visit. There are some good pubs where there is a very special climate reserved just for pompous asses who want to declare how awful the place is. You might be fortunate enough not to be greeted with a Glasgow kiss.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Glasgow is lucky to have the Gulf Stream to keep it as warm as it is - even with that, the climate's pretty awful.
Glasgow (a.k.a The Dear Green Place) has rain, lots and lots of rain, but it makes everything green and lush! Swings and roundabouts.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
Posted by Alan Cresswell:-
You might be fortunate enough not to be greeted with a Glasgow kiss.
Which is?
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
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Posted
Head butt.
[ 31. October 2016, 09:17: Message edited by: kingsfold ]
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
That's when they're being affectionate.
Have visited. Twice. You'd think I'd have learned the first time.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Glasgow kiss = headbutt.
There is no equivalent using an east-coast Scottish place name, on account of us east-coasters being altogether a more civilised species. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Cross posted with everybody. Come to Aberdeenshire on your next visit GeeD; the rain falls softly and the countryside is green and fertile.
[ 31. October 2016, 10:14: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
No, no. I think he should go to Glasgow. He can displayed in the stocks outside of the Tolbooth steeple, with a print out of his earlier posts hung around his neck.
He'll be fine.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Back to the subject of clocks; schools here used to have a shorter day in winter than summer. That wouldn't work today, as most parents would need extra childcare if schools closed earlier.
The clocks changing suits me; the problem with dark mornings is that cars and buses are going to work / schools on roads that are both dark and icy; whereas by the time they return home it may be dark but it is less likely to be icy.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Think of the poor sods at the National Trust, running around moving all those stone circles round an hour.
And you think you've got problems.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I think you must mean English Heritage: the National Trust folk will be busy adjusting the sundials at all their stately houses.
And, of course, they have to do that at 2am which creates its own difficulties ...
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
And, of course, they have to do that at 2am which creates its own difficulties ...
The problem with the DST change is this abrupt one hour transition twice a year.
Clearly the real solution is for days in the spring to be a minute shorter than average, and for days in the autumn to be a minute longer.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Net Spinster
Shipmate
# 16058
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Posted
I must admit the last time I was in Scotland (Stirling), it was the middle of winter and I caught the flu. It did have a white Christmas even if I wasn't in much condition to enjoy it. The days were too short though. At least we aren't like Uranus with its axial tilt.
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spinner of webs
Posts: 1093 | From: San Francisco Bay area | Registered: Dec 2010
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
Head butt.
A tautology. To butt means to hit with the horns or the head. On the other hand, you wouldn't want to say in current parlance that a Glasgow kiss is a butt, I suppose. Could make a bad situation worse.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
Head butt.
A tautology. To butt means to hit with the horns or the head.
No, it is not. "Butt" also means "a casket for wine or beer," as well as "the buttocks" as well as "the discarded end of a cigar or cigarette." Maybe more.
Specifying "head butt" lets you know which of these four (or more) is meant.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
No, no. I think he should go to Glasgow. He can displayed in the stocks outside of the Tolbooth steeple, with a print out of his earlier posts hung around his neck.
He'll be fine.
Not going back a 3rd time, sorry. First visit there was when I was but 14, on my first trip to Europe. My parents wanted to travel the West Highland line, and in steam days, that realistically meant an overnight stay in Glasgow. Mid-July you'd expect to be high summer, but 12 degrees, wet and miserable. A God forsaken part of the world, looking mid-depression rather than 1961. Then more recently, Madame and I stayed there on our way to take the Jacobite. Again July, wet and even colder.
Another post to hang around my neck.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
Head butt.
A tautology. To butt means to hit with the horns or the head.
No, it is not. "Butt" also means "a casket for wine or beer," as well as "the buttocks" as well as "the discarded end of a cigar or cigarette." Maybe more.
Specifying "head butt" lets you know which of these four (or more) is meant.
Also in joinery, a butt joint is where two pieces of wood are butted together, rather than cut to form some other kind of joint, or overlapped.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
]Not going back a 3rd time, sorry. First visit there was when I was but 14, on my first trip to Europe. My parents wanted to travel the West Highland line, and in steam days, that realistically meant an overnight stay in Glasgow. Mid-July you'd expect to be high summer, but 12 degrees, wet and miserable. A God forsaken part of the world, looking mid-depression rather than 1961. Then more recently, Madame and I stayed there on our way to take the Jacobite. Again July, wet and even colder.
Another post to hang around my neck.
So, you're basically clueless and afraid of a bit of weather?
At least, that's your tag for the next H&A day sorted out.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Can I object to the inclusion of "basically"?
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
You can basically object to basically whatever you want. But, basically, we basically don't have to listen to you being basically pompous.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Basically I basically agree - basically.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Just being clueless is OK by me.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
French photographer Raymond Depardon did a series of photos of Glasgow in the late 70s early 80s. I have the coffee table book version, but you can judge for yourselves here, basically.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
I scrolled through the lot. Strikes me as true as far as it goes, but also a very partial portrait of a city.
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Glasgow's like much of the UK. It rains a lot, but that's the price we pay for not having weather that tries to kill us with any regularity. It's the price we pay for not having to put up with days on end of temperatures above 30C or below -10C.
I'd call that a bargain.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
French photographer Raymond Depardon did a series of photos of Glasgow in the late 70s early 80s. I have the coffee table book version, but you can judge for yourselves here, basically.
<swoon> I'm sure the city's changed since then, though?
I was in Glasgow once, just overnight, mostly in the dark. But I could tell I liked it. I really want to get back there and spend some time there.
Oh yeah, DST...
I hadn't thought much about most of Indiana being in the Eastern time zone. That makes it much less odd that Detroit is. I'd always heard that Henry Ford had something to do with that (wanting to be on the same time zone as the NYSE), but that's probably apocryphal. But it is always appropriate to bring up his name in Hell.
I'm looking forward to the clock change, for the extra hour of sleep. Then we can do away with it. I'm a night owl, though; I like the darkness. Plus electricity kinda makes it more of a moot point. Although I wonder - does either way (moving the clocks or not) end up with us consuming more energy?
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
We spent a weekend in Glasgow - loved it.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
My last trip to Glasgow, in September, was to attend an event at the excellent Glasgow Women's Library on the theme of C18th Women and Education. This included a lunchtime concert of C18th music by students from the Glasgow Conservatoire.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
Although I wonder - does either way (moving the clocks or not) end up with us consuming more energy?
This study indicates that changes to either BST all year (no clock change) or to align our clocks to CET (to BST in winter, double BST in summer) would reduce domestic energy consumption (we'd use less energy at home) but increase non-domestic energy consumption (businesses would use more energy) with an overall increase in energy use. The study doesn't appear to have considered GMT all year - but given that we consume more energy in winter when we are currently using GMT my guess would be that it would be a very small difference.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The study doesn't appear to have considered GMT all year
I surely can't be the only one here to be old enough to remember when this was trialled in the UK? Orange armbands for the walk to school proliferated as I recall.
[ 02. November 2016, 09:33: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
It was in the 1970s: and it wasn't GMT all year but BST all year - the clocks didn't go back.
There was widespread moaning from many about the dark mornings: this was not abated when figures collated by RoSPA showed that there were fewer RTAs involving child pedestrians by having people cope with the dark walk or cycle to work/school when they were more alert first-thing in the morning, rather than at the end of the day.
The potential benefits of having the chance of some daylight at the end of the day are huge. In particular, it will make outdoor sport and exercise more feasible and attractive, which surely should be seen as a priority given rocketing rates of obesity.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
For one I find it very hard to get up when it's still dark; I'm in deep sleep at that time and often sleep through alarms. It was like a breath of fresh air waking up in the light again this week.
I'm not convinced the extra light at the end of the day is much use for sports and recreation - it's still dark by the time you're back from work anyway. I'd be very surprised if a single inch were lost from a waistline anywhere simply by it only getting dark a bit before getting home from work instead of long before.
The only argument for year round BST that I have any truck with is the RTC one, although I personally think the best way of reducing RTCs is to address the cause - dangerous drives - and to take people's bloody licences off them when they show they don't deserve it, e.g. when they drive on the phone, when they pass cyclists with a fag paper clearance, where they drive at 30 on residential streets even though there are children around, because they're stupid enough to think that they're not doing anything wrong if they're within the speed limit. Because so many people are that stupid, 20 limits in built up areas might resolve that too.
[ 02. November 2016, 10:25: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Originally posted by L'organist:
quote:
There was widespread moaning from many about the dark mornings: this was not abated when figures collated by RoSPA showed that there were fewer RTAs involving child pedestrians by having people cope with the dark walk or cycle to work/school when they were more alert first-thing in the morning, rather than at the end of the day.
There was a decrease in fatalities in England and the very south of Scotland, but an increase in fatalities in the majority of Scotland.
Of course, we could simply shift everything so that schools and businesses start at 9.30 in winter in Scotland, and finish correspondingly later.
The problem IMO isn't so much the dark mornings, but the fact that the coldest and iciest point in the day is at sunrise, when the earth starts to warm up. If the clocks don't go back, then all travel to school happens when the roads are at their iciest and least safe, and pavements are at their slippiest.
I don't know if this has been solved since my kids left school, but we had mornings when the school busses ran late / didn't run at all because their diesel froze. I'm assuming this is a solvable problem, but it was annoying when it happened. Again, not putting the clocks back would just add to the frozen diesel problem.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
we had mornings when the school busses ran late / didn't run at all because their diesel froze. I'm assuming this is a solvable problem
Why, yes. Very solvable.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
That is pretty much the scenario I envisaged when the council messaged parents that the school bus diesel was still defrosting. Although there were rumours that hot water bottles, strategically placed, were involved too. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ 02. November 2016, 12:12: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
I can remember some years ago being on holiday in Austria and the party's coaches' engines having to be kept running overnight so that the fuel heaters were kept operative as the outside temperatures were so extremely low (down to -25 ºC) that even winter grade diesel was getting too thick to use.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
That is pretty much the scenario I envisaged when the council messaged parents that the school bus diesel was still defrosting. Although there were rumours that hot water bottles, strategically placed, were involved too.
Why not one of these? Unheard of in central Arizona, but I've noticed places to plug them in in places like Alaska.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The potential benefits of having the chance of some daylight at the end of the day are huge. In particular, it will make outdoor sport and exercise more feasible and attractive, which surely should be seen as a priority given rocketing rates of obesity.
One of the arguments for why we don't turn the clocks ahead in Arizona is just the opposite. During the summer (i.e., late spring through early fall) it's too hot for much outdoor activity when the sun is out. Tennis courts, softball fields, etc., have artificial lights so they can be used when things cool off a bit.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
I don't know if this has been solved since my kids left school, but we had mornings when the school busses ran late / didn't run at all because their diesel froze. I'm assuming this is a solvable problem, but it was annoying when it happened.
One wonderful morning, I managed to miss the whole of double French because the diesel had gelled in the cold. It wasn't at all annoying - the other kids were very envious of us "bus" types ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
I am so happy the clocks are going back an hour because I never could figure out how to change my car clock since we went into day light saving time last spring. So every time I looked at the car clock I had to add an hour. So for the next 5 or 6 months the thing will be right.
The bad part is the dog. She gets totally confused. Her meal time, walk time and such is now screwed up and she knows it, and will be a pain to live with for at least two weeks until she adjusts. The Blue Jay that I feed each morning at 7 is also going to be messed up and I am sure to hear from him as well, as he wait in the tree just outside my bedroom window
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Graven Image quote:
The bad part is the dog. She gets totally confused. Her meal time, walk time and such is now screwed up...
It is not the dog's meal times which are causing the confusion: it is you because you are sticking to a human clock, rather than carrying on to feed, water and walk at roughly the same time after dawn.
We humans have, by-and-large, lost the ability to live our lives according to the natural clock of daylight: sharing our lives with animals who haven't is bound to cause friction. Feed your animal when they want the food if at all possible and you'll both be happier.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
... Mid-July you'd expect to be high summer, but 12 degrees ...
12 degrees is high summer. ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
I have to confess to not minding about the clock changes at all*. When I lived in Orkney, it was just part of life's rich tapestry that once the clocks went back, you'd be coming home from school/work in the dark - and in its way, it made it easier to start feeling festive (sorry about that ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) ).
Anyway, it was more than compensated for by the almost complete lack of darkness for a few weeks in the summer.
* I prefer the one where you get an extra hour's sleep, but I'm really OK with the spring one as well.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I surely can't be the only one here to be old enough to remember when this was trialled in the UK? Orange armbands for the walk to school proliferated as I recall.
No you're not - I remember them too.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
As Pigwidgeon pointed out, we don't change the clocks in Arizona. So when I travel to California (PST) in the summer, I don't have to reset my watch from what it was in Phoenix (MST). In the winter, however, California is an hour behind us.
I really don't miss the time change -- don't even think about it -- although when I lived in New York I did enjoy the extra hour in the fall but always hated losing it again in the spring.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Grrr re changing the time on my cell. (Not a smart phone.) The setting is buried deep in the menu tree, with an unobvious title. Despite offering ways to change date and time *formats*, it wouldn't let me get to the time field it displayed! I finally noticed "DST" at the bottom of the screen, thought it might be "Daylight Savings Time", and selected it. DST disappeared without any message, and didn't change the time. I finally tried turning it off and on, and got a message that the time had been updated, as it turned out to be.
What a lot to go through to change the time by one hour!
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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