quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
[...] What are Trump and others actually so afraid of? [...] I struggle to get in the mindset.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wesley J:
Oh, and: Time to read 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' again, isn't it...

---

It's become a bestseller again here in the States. Can't imagine why.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Various:

--Ditto the first part of Ariston's recent post, and much of the rest of it.

--Re 1984: Hopefully, things won't turn out like Starhawk's The Fifth Sacred Thing, or The Handmaid's Tale. (Note: I've only read Starhawk's book, but heard a lot about the others.)


--Re what they (Trump et al) are scared of:
Not being able to get wildly richer. They make money from the things that are currently causing/worsening climate change. Afraid of not being in power. Trump probably sees himself as the "strong man" type of leader, given his admiration for Putin and historical examples.

I confess my somewhat rusty fundamentalist end-time feelers are a bit activated, and wondering if someone is trying to kick-start the Book of Revelation. Some people identify Gog and Magog as Russia and China...Not saying it's true, just that the thought occurred.

Does anyone happen to know if Dr. Norman Vincent Peale (whose church little Donald attended) believed in end-times prophecies? I can try to verify that later. I'd always thought of him in terms of his "power of positive thinking". But, during the campaign, there was a clip where he was fiery and nasty.
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
We don't need the Revelation to St.John to tell us that the climate change deniers are going to get us all killed if the North Koreans don't do it first.
 

---

Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
I took George Orwell's 1984 down from the bookshelf this weekend but it is too prescient and chilling to read right now.

This, especially:

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.”
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wesley J:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
[...] What are Trump and others actually so afraid of? [...] I struggle to get in the mindset.

---

Now that is one excellent observation! What is the fear that all this is based on? Thanks for this.

---

I suspect, from some recent stuff I have heard (which may or may not be true), it is because he has investments in oil and gas companies. So he wants them to have a free reign, and not be bothered by pesky "you are destroying the world and going to kill us all" people.

Clearly he doesn't care about the next generation. Another reason I feel really sorry for his son.
 

---

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
This whole "America first" thing is going to have wider impacts on the UN agencies and other countries. Quite what May is going to come away with except a white piece of paper to wave as she gets off the plane, I have no idea.

If you haven't seen it this Bad Lipreading video of the inauguration might cheer you up a bit.
 

---

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Or this one from the Dutch: America first... the Netherlands second

We laugh that we may not weep.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Plans are forming for a March for Science. (Hello Giggles)
 

---

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Well, you could try and again, better, and remember that there's a preview post button from which you can check the operability of your links...

---

I had a phone call I had to deal with during that post that stopped me seeing it at once, and when I did see it, I found the links worked, despite the oddity with the display. But I went through the process correctly, as far as I could see. All of them were done the same way.
 

---

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Elsewhere, someone has seized on the sales of "1984" as to do with Orwell's attack on the liberal elites and political correctness being recognised by the Trumpistas.

This is an otherwise intelligent person with a background in proper laboratory based science.


 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
While we're sharing references in literature that remind us of these interesting present times, I shared W H Auden's 'Epitaph of a Tyrant' on facebook a few days ago, as something that kept going through my head, as I was watching the inauguration.

Here's the full text but the lines that kept banging about my brain-case were these:

When he laughed, respectable Senators burst with laughter,
And when he cried the little children died in the streets.

I can almost believe that Trump would not be too worried if these words could literally be applied to his term in office.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
{Tangent}

Penny--

Tried to PM this to you, but your mailbox is full.

I know the problem with the first link. There's a space and a % in it, IIRC, and the UBB software can't handle those.

Go to http://www.tinyurl.com . Fill in the blanks, and it will give you an alias URL. Either it will assign it, or you can give it whatever name you like. I usually do the latter, and make it clear that it's related to the topic. E.g., "WikiAboutUBB".

I didn't see a problem in the 2nd link, but tinyurl should take care of that, too.

Good luck! Oh, and the first couple of times you use it, paste the new URL in on the UBB thread in Styx *first*, so you can see what it looks like.
 

---

Posted by Hiro's Leap (# 12470) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny S:
Elsewhere, someone has seized on the sales of "1984" as to do with Orwell's attack on the liberal elites and political correctness being recognised by the Trumpistas.

This is an otherwise intelligent person with a background in proper laboratory based science.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny S:
Elsewhere, someone has seized on the sales of "1984" as to do with Orwell's attack on the liberal elites and political correctness being recognised by the Trumpistas.

This is an otherwise intelligent person with a background in proper laboratory based science.

---

They might not be wrong. Conservatives love Orwell - sure, he was a hard-line socialist, but he called out his own team for cooing over totalitarian Communist regimes, and he made himself pretty unpopular for it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:
So the theory is that Trump supporters are now all rushing to read a 70-year-old book by a British anti-fascist author? Makes perfect sense, except for three things: the foreigner, the anti-fascism, and the reading.

---

quote:

---

At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is ‘not done’ to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was ‘not done’ to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing, either in the popular press or in the highbrow periodicals.
At this moment what is demanded by the prevailing orthodoxy is an uncritical admiration of Soviet Russia. Everyone knows this, nearly everyone acts on it. Any serious criticism of the Soviet régime, any disclosure of facts which the Soviet government would prefer to keep hidden, is next door to unprintable.
[...]
The servility with which the greater part of the English intelligentsia have swallowed and repeated Russian propaganda from 1941 onwards would be quite astounding if it were not that they have behaved similarly on several earlier occasions.
[..]
Stalin is sacrosanct and certain aspects of his policy must not be seriously discussed.
[...]
You could, indeed, publish anti-Russian books, but to do so was to make sure of being ignored or misrepresented by nearly me whole of the highbrow press. Both publicly and privately you were warned that it was ‘not done’. What you said might possibly be true, but it was ‘inopportune’

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:
Makes perfect sense, except for three things: the foreigner, the anti-fascism, and the reading.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Climacus:


Did George W do similar things?

Perhaps at a lesser level, but I seem to recall [could be wrong], he took a stick to certain agencies.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:
So the theory is that Trump supporters are now all rushing to read a 70-year-old book by a British anti-fascist author? Makes perfect sense, except for three things: the foreigner, the anti-fascism, and the reading.

---

I've come across loads of conservative posters who reference 1984. It isn't anti-fascist, it's anti-totalitarian, and many on the right identify the left-wing as authoritarians with an inglorious history of supporting totalitarian regimes.

Have you read the original preface to Animal Farm? Orwell's criticisms of the left precisely mirror the right's at the moment. For instance...

quote:

---

At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is ‘not done’ to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was ‘not done’ to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing, either in the popular press or in the highbrow periodicals.
At this moment what is demanded by the prevailing orthodoxy is an uncritical admiration of Soviet Russia. Everyone knows this, nearly everyone acts on it. Any serious criticism of the Soviet régime, any disclosure of facts which the Soviet government would prefer to keep hidden, is next door to unprintable.
[...]
The servility with which the greater part of the English intelligentsia have swallowed and repeated Russian propaganda from 1941 onwards would be quite astounding if it were not that they have behaved similarly on several earlier occasions.
[..]
Stalin is sacrosanct and certain aspects of his policy must not be seriously discussed.
[...]
You could, indeed, publish anti-Russian books, but to do so was to make sure of being ignored or misrepresented by nearly me whole of the highbrow press. Both publicly and privately you were warned that it was ‘not done’. What you said might possibly be true, but it was ‘inopportune’

---

Replace 'not done' with 'problematic' and this looks very much like the right's complaints about political correctness. You might not agree, but it's not a stretch to see why they like Orwell.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Yeah, but I doubt me an that be particular to the Left. It's always more obvious where it's our opinions that are frowned upon, so naturally those on the Right will see it in the Left and "PC"

---

Hey Karl,

I'm not trying to get into a debate about whether the right's justified or not, just pointing out reasons why they like Orwell.

To be fair, Penny S and Dave W are probably right: a sudden surge in sales at this point is more likely to be from Democrats. But Penny's friend(?) claiming that conservatives are buying the book IME isn't as insane as it might sound.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I know this is Hell, but I wasn't trying to start an argument either. I was observing an interesting phenomenon.

Most of my lefty friends think that the BBC is biased towards the Tories. The Daily Heil on the other hand complains it's full of lefties and is biased towards the Left generally.

I conclude from this it's probably pretty balanced and unbiased in reality

Point is we more easily see when we think we're being silenced. Or even interpret mere disagreement as censure. I've had people tell me they "aren't allowed" to say what they think, but what they mean is that if they say racist things, people point out that those things are racist.

I suspect Orwell's target was subtly different - people knowing (or suspecting) what Stalin's USSR was getting like, but being unwilling to admit it, and getting defensive if anyone else did, as it threatened the self-deception.

[ 26. January 2017, 15:51: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 

---

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by irish_lord99:
Also, it's going to be interesting to hear all of these conservatives explain the explosion of the national debt in four years.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I know this is Hell, but I wasn't trying to start an argument either. I was observing an interesting phenomenon.

Most of my lefty friends think that the BBC is biased towards the Tories. The Daily Heil on the other hand complains it's full of lefties and is biased towards the Left generally.

I conclude from this it's probably pretty balanced and unbiased in reality

---

quote:

---

Point is we more easily see when we think we're being silenced. Or even interpret mere disagreement as censure. I've had people tell me they "aren't allowed" to say what they think, but what they mean is that if they say racist things, people point out that those things are racist.

---

quote:

---

I suspect Orwell's target was subtly different - people knowing (or suspecting) what Stalin's USSR was getting like, but being unwilling to admit it, and getting defensive if anyone else did, as it threatened the self-deception.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamat:
Another side to it

---

quote:

---

Obama wants to force Christian churches and schools to accept the most radical and most recent version of gender ideology

---

quote:

---

Can you understand how terrified mothers and fathers are at the prospect that those in power want to actively prevent them from passing their beliefs on to their own children?

---

quote:

---

Christian bakers are under attack. Christian photographers. Christian pastors. Real people are losing real businesses that they had labored for years to build.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:

---

Obama wants to force Christian churches and schools to accept the most radical and most recent version of gender ideology

---

then they so lack the education and appreciation of the separation of church and state that I'd be frankly surprised if they could find their arse with both hands.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamat:
Another side to it

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamat:
Another side to it

---

Being forced into treating people with equality - poor soulz

 

---

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I'm sorry. I didn't realise that "school" meant on one hand "public school run by Christian charity with federal funds" and "place where we can trample on the Church/State divide" on the other.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I'm sorry. I didn't realise that "school" meant on one hand "public school run by Christian charity with federal funds" and "place where we can trample on the Church/State divide" on the other.

---

The point was that the acceptance of a small federal subsidy for a lunch programme in a different school in the diocese was sufficient to contaminate the funding for all schools in the diocese and make them subject to title IX.

It's not entirely obvious to me that that would be true, or that there should be any church/state divide trampling going on if the government provides lunches for poor kids in private schools.

If the government handed each poor child a packed lunch as he left his home in the morning, you wouldn't be complaining that it violated the church/state divide if some of those lunches were consumed in private church schools. But achieving the same result in a more efficient manner by handing out the food in schools is a violation. I don't think that needs to be true.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:

So either you're a wholly private school, or you're not. There's no halfway house, and that's how the law's being interpreted.

---

Let's suppose a government provided free immunizations to children as a public health measure. An efficient way to do that would be to send vaccines to places where lots of children are assembled, such as schools.

If a government provides vaccines to private school pupils, does that stop the school from being private? I'd argue that of course it doesn't. You, it seems, would insist that the private school pony up for its own vaccines.
 

---

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
The conservative poster I referred to is only a friend in the sense that I shoulld view everyone as such. I would trust him on anything scientific without ethical aspects.

Meanwhile, I am following a recommendation from the presenter on LBC (a phone in radio station) and downloading Sinclair Lewis' book "It Can't Happen Here" from the 30s, because it now has.
 

---

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
No, because the government isn't giving money to the school so they can buy their own vaccines? And on the off-chance not vaccinate the trans or gay kids?

I don't make the rules. I don't even get to say whether or not I think the rules are stupid. I just get to say "this is what the rules say, and that's not in dispute".

If American Christians want Trump wants to ride roughshod over the separation of church and state, then the unforeseen circumstances will be both tragic and hilarious in turn.
 

---

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :
 
I'm with LC on this one. We are talking about humanitarian action for vulnerable children here, and it should be made available to them regardless of the context in which they are being schooled. I think that Obama's administration was being heavy-handed, and there were advocates of this policy who were prepared to use the availability of funding to bring schools into line with their New, Enlightened Thinking, despite following rules that would have been perfectly acceptable just a few years earlier. Besides, the discussion on gender-identity practices relating to transgender persons is far from over.

However, this is all small fry compared with the challenges we are facing now.
 

---

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Obama was being heavy-handed? No comment on the officially-sanctioned discrimination against trans kids in school?


 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Democrat President = reduction in national debt (or, much slower increase)...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Obama was being heavy-handed? No comment on the officially-sanctioned discrimination against trans kids in school?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Democrat President = reduction in national debt (or, much slower increase)...

---

During Bill Clinton's time in office, the US national debt was paid off.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Democrat President = reduction in national debt (or, much slower increase)...

---

During Bill Clinton's time in office, the US national debt was paid off.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Obama was being heavy-handed? No comment on the officially-sanctioned discrimination against trans kids in school?

---

If a school had decided to let transsexual children use whatever toilet they felt like just 5 - 10 years ago, it may well have faced prosecution. Suddenly, if they don't change their policy to suit the whims of government social welfare departments, they are somehow morally abhorrent.

Just because someone feels like they are of different gender than they physically are, doesn't necessarily make them that in the perception of society around them, and their views shouldn't the only ones that matter.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:
Makes perfect sense, except for three things: the foreigner, the anti-fascism, and the reading.

---

You've forgotten something important. There are always alternatives

Who knows where Orwell was born? All the birth records could have been faked, and he was American. Believing all the evidence about where someone was born ... that's just not the way right thinking people do things.

Animal Farm was "clearly anti-Communist", therefore Orwell was an anti-Communist author. So, that's OK then.

Animal Farm was an animated movie. Someone could produce a picture story version of 1984 for the American public.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If we're running a sweepstake, I'm putting my money down for a bit in internal repression first.

It'll either be Chicago (I think that's right, unless I'm confusing it with Detroit) with its high murder rate, or the oil pipeline protesters. Marshal law imposed, paramilitary law enforcement, curfews, ID laws, stuff like that.

Who knows, he may even go after people's guns, but it'll be okay because it'll be red, brown and black people's guns.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Probably. With an inadvertent tweet, a heedless trade war (which he started today, with Mexico), or some other idiocy that could have been avoided by a child of ten. Pray, now, that it doesn't involve nukes. You don't want the entire globe to be drawn into our disasters.

---

Wednesday night's "Nightline", on ABC, had an interview with him. Good interview. IMHO, the reporter showed great restraint in the way he handled T. He asked important questions, but he didn't needle him.

Anyway, when they were walking through the White House, the reporter asked if there was anything about the job that was keeping him up at night. The nuclear codes? "No," Trump said, I know I'd do the right thing." (close to being a quote) But he's worried about terrorism.

I'm not sure I want to know what he thinks would be the right thing to do about using nukes...

 

---

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:
Oh for fucks sake. I'm quite confident Trump has not inspired his followers to read a book.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Yes they fucking should be. That's the whole problem there - religious bigots thinking they know best and should be able to impose their views.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If we're running a sweepstake, I'm putting my money down for a bit in internal repression first.

It'll either be Chicago (I think that's right, unless I'm confusing it with Detroit) with its high murder rate, or the oil pipeline protesters. Marshal law imposed, paramilitary law enforcement, curfews, ID laws, stuff like that.

Who knows, he may even go after people's guns, but it'll be okay because it'll be red, brown and black people's guns.

---

I'm guessing that you mean martial law. Hell of a difference.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Probably. With an inadvertent tweet, a heedless trade war (which he started today, with Mexico), or some other idiocy that could have been avoided by a child of ten. Pray, now, that it doesn't involve nukes. You don't want the entire globe to be drawn into our disasters.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Yes they fucking should be. That's the whole problem there - religious bigots thinking they know best and should be able to impose their views.

---

Fine. But bigotry can work both ways, that's always good to remember.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Just now in the POST I see that Dishonest Don is calling for the internet to be shut down. Terrorists, you know.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I don't make the rules. I don't even get to say whether or not I think the rules are stupid. I just get to say "this is what the rules say, and that's not in dispute".

If American Christians want Trump wants to ride roughshod over the separation of church and state, then the unforeseen circumstances will be both tragic and hilarious in turn.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
it's not harming anyone

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:


I'm not saying that people swapping genders is wrong or shouldn't be allowed, but I am saying that when considering who should have access to gender-specific areas such as toilets there needs to be a way to distinguish people who have genuinely and permanently changed from those who are merely claiming to have done so in order to gain access. Simply relying on what the person says cannot possibly do that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Simply relying on what the person says cannot possibly do that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
it's not harming anyone

---

Well, that's the question isn't it? Women-only areas (mostly, but not exclusively, toilets) exist to protect women. ISTM that that can only be achieved if there is actually an independent definition of "man" and "woman" (which would include independent confirmation that someone has changed from one to the other if appropriate), otherwise any man who wanted to get in could do so simply by claiming to identify as female.

I'm not saying that people swapping genders is wrong or shouldn't be allowed, but I am saying that when considering who should have access to gender-specific areas such as toilets there needs to be a way to distinguish people who have genuinely and permanently changed from those who are merely claiming to have done so in order to gain access. Simply relying on what the person says cannot possibly do that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:


I'm not saying that people swapping genders is wrong or shouldn't be allowed, but I am saying that when considering who should have access to gender-specific areas such as toilets there needs to be a way to distinguish people who have genuinely and permanently changed from those who are merely claiming to have done so in order to gain access. Simply relying on what the person says cannot possibly do that.

---

On that particular point I suggest we look at countries like Sweden and the Netherlands where unisex toilets are far more common. They are entirely private so they on the gender of the user, reversing the usual practice.

Maybe this practice could be the way to proceed in areas where people may be vulnerable and uncomfortable.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
On that particular point I suggest we look at countries like Sweden and the Netherlands where unisex toilets are far more common. They are entirely private so they on the gender of the user, reversing the usual practice.

Maybe this practice could be the way to proceed in areas where people may be vulnerable and uncomfortable.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny S:
Shut down the internet? Who will then read his great thoughts?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I'm sure someone will have pointed out by now that

(a) America doesn't own the internet
(b) It's impossible
(c) See (a)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
On that particular point I suggest we look at countries like Sweden and the Netherlands where unisex toilets are far more common.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The whole point of the internet is that it's a distributed network. Yes, there are bottlenecks, but if you honestly believe that Trump can shut down the global internet (USA, yes - China? Hell no) I have a bridge you might be interested in.

---

quote:

---

ISPs aren't even required to register their presence in the US. The US gave up their stake in ICANN in 2014. There's even such a thing as satellite internet now.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Facts are facts.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The whole point of the internet is that it's a distributed network. Yes, there are bottlenecks, but if you honestly believe that Trump can shut down the global internet (USA, yes - China? Hell no) I have a bridge you might be interested in.

---

Facts are facts. ICANN is located in the USA and, until recently, was stewarded by the US government.

If one was able to disable ICANN's functions, one might not be able to disable the whole internet but would make it incredibly difficult to find anything.

Yes, the infrastructure could be rebuilt, I'm not saying it is irreversible. But it isn't impossible for a US president to have an enormous impact on the way that the internet works.

quote:

---

ISPs aren't even required to register their presence in the US. The US gave up their stake in ICANN in 2014. There's even such a thing as satellite internet now.

---

Nope, it was in October 2016. There are 14 keyholders at ICANN of which 7 have to be present several times a year to sign the root of the entire internet.

In the USA.

---

quote:

---

Disabling the internet in a foreign country would involve actual attacks on the actual infrastructure, either physically or electronically, requiring concerted effort and expenditure, and would most likely be taken as an act of war by the recipient.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
... any man who wanted to get in could do so simply by claiming to identify as female. .... distinguish people who have genuinely and permanently changed from those who are merely claiming to have done so in order to gain access. ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
On that particular point I suggest we look at countries like Sweden and the Netherlands where unisex toilets are far more common.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
It was mentioned to me that Barney Rubble has not aged well. What do you think of the hands?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
But what comes out of his lips are (as Scripture suggests) very equivalent to what comes out of his other orifices.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:
Oh for fucks sake. I'm quite confident Trump has not inspired his followers to read a book.

---

All I know is that sales of 1984 have increased. That doesn't mean the people buying it will actually read it. It can join the small selection of books his followers have on their book shelf, unread, that they say they know what it says and how it supports their political views. Like The Bible.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Just how bleak is it?

---

 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 


I take it that means it's unremittingly bleak? If so, it stays on my "Uh, no, just no" list.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:


I take it that means it's unremittingly bleak? If so, it stays on my "Uh, no, just no" list.

---

I would call it serious dystopian bleakness, and I didn't find Foucault's Pendulum particularly bad.
 

---

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :
 
As far as I'm concerned, Trump can Foucault-ff.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
SC--Thanks!

Wes--
 

---

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :
 
If you want to get into the mindset, I wouldn't start with 1984 (which being good literature is always worth reading anyway). Start with Ayn Rand, probably "Atlas Shrugged".

Actually, scrub that. Don't read Ayn Rand. It's boring. Read some summary of her Objectivism by somebody else who has had to plough through the original. North American conservatism will lie gridded out before you.

The question of the modes of dereliction of the opposition to conservatism (cf. Orwell) is an interesting one too, but separate. Probably merits a separate mass hand-wringing, though I suspect covered elsewhere in part already.
 

---

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Extreme vetting

Syrian refugees stopped. Citizens from several countries banned for 90 days.

Any news on what the replacement inscription on the Statue of Liberty will read?

[I'm not having a go at Americans btw; DT still has some way before he reaches the depths of our immigration system...]

---

It has been said that some US universities are advising staff from affected countries (who are legally in the US with appropriate visas) not to leave as they may not be allowed back in.

I've also heard it said (although with less solid verification) that there are some who have already left - for example to go to a conference - who have been prevented from returning to their families.
 

---

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I heard on the radio that Google has advised staff currently abroad to return at once.

If true, they've just moved off my don't use list.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
It's on BBC news (so it must be true...):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38781420

What will the mad tyrant do next, I wonder?



IJ
 

---

Posted by Hiro's Leap (# 12470) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Just how bleak is it?

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
If you want to get into the mindset, I wouldn't start with 1984 (which being good literature is always worth reading anyway). Start with Ayn Rand, probably "Atlas Shrugged".

Actually, scrub that. Don't read Ayn Rand. It's boring. Read some summary of her Objectivism by somebody else who has had to plough through the original. North American conservatism will lie gridded out before you.

---

quote:

---

Hamaseh Tayari, a UK resident who holds an Iranian passport, has been on holiday in Costa Rica with her boyfriend for the last week. She was due to fly back to Glasgow, where she works as a vet, this morning but was denied entry onto the flight because her flight went via New York and she would need a transit visa, which was revoked....

“I am destroyed. I did not know that I could cry for so long. It feels like the beginning of the end. How this is possible? I am really afraid about what is going on.”

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Since Mr Trump and Mrs May are now BFFs perhaps she needs to get him to let UK residents through.

Except, she won't because she's doing all she can to pander to the racists who don't want people like that, foreigners with their strange names and letters after their name, in the UK either.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I have read Atlas Shrugged. Don't bother. It is very long and boring.

The US hasn't been the "Land of the Free" since some of the restrictions after 9/11. Trump is not the leader of the Free World - he is the dictator in a large and nuclear equipped country.

Interesting question form the Purg thread - could Trump get a second term? Or are his supporters as appalled by him as his opponents?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:


Interesting question form the Purg thread - could Trump get a second term? Or are his supporters as appalled by him as his opponents?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:


Interesting question form the Purg thread - could Trump get a second term? Or are his supporters as appalled by him as his opponents?

---

Dick Cheney. Dick. Cheney.

---

Hmm. Positively surprised. But that was December 2015. The wonderful thing about the sudden election of a pariah is many people's ability to rethink their reality and bring it into line with the new perceptions at the centre of power. So if D.C. were to renew his statement this week, I would be much heartened.

More frighteningly though, it shows that the far right wing of G.W.'s administration is considerably to the left of DT.
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
You might wish to read the thread in Hell with Dick Cheney's name on it.
 

---

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :
 
Thanks, Ruth. Have in the meantime.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
There's a crumb of comfort in the thought that if, before long, Pussygrabber brings about WW3, we'll all be in it together:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs&nohtml5=False

IJ
 

---

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
On the same theme, WWIII is almost upon us by popular demand
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Tom Lehrer's retired now, of course (and nearly 90 years old), but, from his Wikipedia entry:

'Despite their topical subjects and references, the popularity of these songs has endured; Lehrer quoted a friend's explanation: "Always predict the worst and you'll be hailed as a prophet."'

IJ
 

---

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :
 
Silly strategy - there'd be nobody left to congratulate you. It's better to preach that it will all work out after all in the face of certain doom.
 

---

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
Blessed are the strong, for they will tread the weak underfoot
Blessed are the rich, for they will become richer
Blessed are the perverts, for they will sexually assault
Blessed are those who close borders, for they will create terror which they will exploit for their benefit
Blessed are the bombs, for they will kill the innocent
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Blessed are those who have kin in power, for they shall make out like bandits.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Blessed are the MILLION-PLUS in the UK who have signed a Petition to Prevent Pussygrabber Polluting our fair land by His Presence!

We are going to need an awful lot of Pink Pussy Hats - Brenda, start knitting.....

IJ
 

---

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I've signed. And how very dare he lay down the rules for how he is entertained? I want to play the sovereign's private golf course! I don't want any talk about climate change!

Cue HRH: "I am so sorry, Mr President, but the weather has been so wet this year that the course is unplayable, and according to our Meteorological Office, is unlikely to be usable for the foreseeable future."

[ 30. January 2017, 13:21: Message edited by: Penny S ]
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Is there a handy link to the petition? I thought I'd get one from a Certain Source, but no.

IJ
 

---

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
Just search on petition parliament and up will come the "popular" ones running at the moment.

Latest figure is 1.25 million !
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Thanks! All done - the figure is 1,300,000+ now - and I've emailed my MP.

IJ
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Ditto!
 

---

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 
An outright ban would be difficult to impose. It would be much better to insist on the 4 month quarantine period for 'at risk' domestic animals arriving from countries with rabies.
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
No sane nation wants him to visit. In fact that is the US's only hope, to send him on an extended tour and get him out of our hair.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
So he is just over a week into office. He has had mass protests worldwide, challenges to his dictats internally, a huge petition against him, and worldwide approbation for pretty much everything he has done.

I have to say that very few people can manage to have such a phenomenal negative reaction in such a short time, even given where he was starting from.

And I missed the fact that there are people looking into his impeachment already.

What a vile, worthless, obnoxious, dangerous piece of shit he is. And he STILL thinks it is all going well, which has to be an indication of his delusion or derangement.
 

---

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
What's needed is a Mexican (or some other convenient national who either does it on their own or as brainwashed to do it by trumpettes) to burn the Reichstag or whatever building trump rules out of. Which would then allow a tidy little invasion. You just know he wants to bomb someone. Impeachment would be nicely deflected by a war.
 

---

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :
 
And what does he focus on re: protests? The tears of Churck Schumer which he insists are phony.



sabine
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And I missed the fact that there are people looking into his impeachment already.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabine:
And what does he focus on re: protests? The tears of Churck Schumer which he insists are phony.



sabine

---

quote:

---

On Holocaust Memorial Day, the White House issued a statement that did not mention Jews or antisemitism – but this was no oversight by the new administration

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wesley J:
Not sure if this belongs here or on the Purg thread: the Grauniad says that

quote:

---

On Holocaust Memorial Day, the White House issued a statement that did not mention Jews or antisemitism – but this was no oversight by the new administration

---

This is a 'Comment is Free' opinion piece, here, but still.

I find this unbelievably horrible, although not surprising. What else is there in store for us? Everything's being turned on its head. Good grief!

Any thoughts?

---

I mean, what do you expect if you've just installed Joseph Goebb..., er, Steve Bannon as your chief strategist? It's the perfect sequel to 9/11. After the disaster-film-turned-reality, we now have the evil dictator making the power of the US of A his own. The White House looks like a chimpanzee tea party at the moment, but there is no reason for complacency. By trying to control or cow the media, they want to set the political agenda. They might try to provoke popular protests and counter-protests as a smokescreen for other legal action. And I am sure that they are prepared to twist the arms of as many congressmen behind their backs as possible in order to gain political support for some very dark legislation. But of course, I might be totally overestimating DT's team, and his presidency will come to a grinding halt in a cloud of dust. At least if the Brexiteers are any gauge in terms of collective IQ, we can be of good cheer that this is what will happen.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
They used the attack on a Mosque in Quebec by a lone gunman loonie white dude to justify the Islamic ban.

Incompetence and willfully hearing only what they want to.
 

---

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
So he is just over a week into office. He has had mass protests worldwide, challenges to his dictats internally, a huge petition against him, and worldwide approbation for pretty much everything he has done.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
What's needed is a Mexican (or some other convenient national who either does it on their own or as brainwashed to do it by trumpettes) to burn the Reichstag or whatever building trump rules out of. Which would then allow a tidy little invasion. You just know he wants to bomb someone. Impeachment would be nicely deflected by a war.

---

quote:

---

“I’m a Leninist,” Steve Bannon told a writer for The Daily Beast, in late 2013. “Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal, too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.”

---

Great. An anarchist.

 

---

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MaryLouise:
Watching for the legal pushback here on the Breitbart influence. Posted on Twitter just now: an obscure law requires Senate confirmation for a White House aide like Bannon to serve on NSC.

50 U.S. Code § 3021 - National Security Council


They may not be able to put the brakes on Bannon & Trump but perhaps slow things down a little?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Great. An anarchist.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Some anarchists, I think, simply. want to destroy everything--and *that's* what Bannon sounds like to me.

Kind of like the masked, black-dressed anarchists who often show up to peaceful protests and wreck them, but worse.

---

The masked, black-dressed, bomb-carriers are more accurately referred to by nihilists, especially by the other kind of anarchist, who tend to wear sandals and veganism.
 

---

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :
 
What worries me is that Bannon is now on the National Security Council. That is maybe the real news behind the smokescreen. Now imagine he starts to use the muscle of the US to stoke rightwing trouble in Europe. There are several European Countries that are vulnerable, and it could easily destabilise the continent. Left to him, he may even enlist the support of Putin to do his part. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but since they say "when America sneezes, Europe gets a cold", what happens to Europe now that the US has gone down with the flu?
 

---

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
I found some media coverage of Bannon's appointment.

Granted, it is the Guardian, but

The reports into how the immigration EO was implemented make for enlightening reading, too.
 

---

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
Impeachment? Don't get ahead of yourself. Trump hasn't yet outlived his usefulness for substantial factions in the GOP. He's still got some mileage there before they need to offload him. And the other frightening thing about him is that he will take every measure he can to squelch opposition.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
Impeachment? Don't get ahead of yourself. Trump hasn't yet outlived his usefulness for substantial factions in the GOP. He's still got some mileage there before they need to offload him. And the other frightening thing about him is that he will take every measure he can to squelch opposition.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
They used the attack on a Mosque in Quebec by a lone gunman loonie white dude to justify the Islamic ban.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
Impeachment? Don't get ahead of yourself. Trump hasn't yet outlived his usefulness for substantial factions in the GOP. He's still got some mileage there before they need to offload him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
So he is just over a week into office. He has had mass protests worldwide, challenges to his dictats internally, a huge petition against him, and worldwide approbation for pretty much everything he has done.

---

"Approbation" means "approval or praise." I think you mean "opprobrium."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Would it be evil of us to have an impeachment pool, rather like the celebrity death pool thread?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:
Wouldn't the trouble with impeachment be that you'd be landed with the vice-president, who's allegedly even worse than Trump?*

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Trump is very ill, however you want to categorize it. Pence, while nasty, seems to be relatively sane--so it *might* be possible to work with him, box him in, etc.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
Impeachment? Don't get ahead of yourself. Trump hasn't yet outlived his usefulness for substantial factions in the GOP. He's still got some mileage there before they need to offload him. And the other frightening thing about him is that he will take every measure he can to squelch opposition.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Trump is very ill, however you want to categorize it. Pence, while nasty, seems to be relatively sane--so it *might* be possible to work with him, box him in, etc.

---

No. Pence is worse. He has God on his side. And as St Bob of Dylan said, with God on your side you neither need ask questions nor count the dead.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If Trump is chucked out, Pence might learn a lesson that he needs to act more responsibly.

But what I have heard suggests he is pretty bad. So there might have to be a second impeachment. Which should throw the country into a constitutional crisis, not least if the electoral process has produced a pairing that is so non-viable.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If Trump is chucked out, Pence might learn a lesson that he needs to act more responsibly.

But what I have heard suggests he is pretty bad. So there might have to be a second impeachment. Which should throw the country into a constitutional crisis, not least if the electoral process has produced a pairing that is so non-viable.

---

We got rid of Agnew and Nixon without a constitutional crisis. We can do it again.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Meh. I think Trump thinks he IS God. He certainly demands worship. AND obedience.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
With the greatest of respect, let's call this what it is. The man is a terrorist, plain and simple.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If Trump is chucked out, Pence might learn a lesson that he needs to act more responsibly.

But what I have heard suggests he is pretty bad. So there might have to be a second impeachment. Which should throw the country into a constitutional crisis, not least if the electoral process has produced a pairing that is so non-viable.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I don't want to sound at all like I'm supporting Trumps ridiculous anti-refugee policy, but can someone explain why Australia isn't the bad guy in the current spat?

Australia set up offshore immigration centres and Australia appears to be trying to farm out those poor people to other countries. Why should the USA bail them out? Hasn't Australia got enough space for refugees?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I don't want to sound at all like I'm supporting Trumps ridiculous anti-refugee policy, but can someone explain why Australia is the bad guy in the current spat?

Australia set up offshore immigration centres and Australia appears to be trying to farm out those poor people to other countries. Why should the USA bail them out? Hasn't Australia got enough space for refugees?

---

quote:

---

Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more, I noticed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Can you hijack a plane? Or do the potential refugees have to make one out of balsa wood and string?

---

quote:

---

"I hope and trust all will come out right in the end, but the immediate future looks dark and troubled. I cannot shut my eyes to the ugly facts before me."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
One of these ugly fact is the extraordinary ugliness of Trump's behaviour. The latest illustration was at the National Prayer Breakfast. Unbelievably crass, completely inappropriate, egotistical, embarrassing. He simply cannot be hearing what he is saying.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Further on military topics:

"Military Convoy Flying Trump Flag Belonged to SEAL Unit." (ABC News)

It seems a military convoy in Kentucky decided it would be a good idea to fly a Trump flag from the lead vehicle. Don't know if that flag was already a thing, or if they made it themselves.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
He is going to bomb Iran. Not an if, but a when.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
The Iraq 03 military intervention was an experiment to win the hearts and minds of the general population, it failed and won't be repeated.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:


One of these ugly fact is the extraordinary ugliness of Trump's behaviour. The latest illustration was at the National Prayer Breakfast. Unbelievably crass, completely inappropriate, egotistical, embarrassing. He simply cannot be hearing what he is saying.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabine:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:


One of these ugly fact is the extraordinary ugliness of Trump's behaviour. The latest illustration was at the National Prayer Breakfast. Unbelievably crass, completely inappropriate, egotistical, embarrassing. He simply cannot be hearing what he is saying.

---

How many religious leaders have taken him to task for this? I know he created an awkward reaction at the Prayer Breakfast, but why the seeming silence on the part of religious leaders?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
I find the remarks at the prayer breakfast more deserving of ridicule than outrage.

---

Indeed, he's a sad, pathetic person for whom all situations seem to be a context to brag about himself and vow to take down [insert whatever pops into his head].

At the same time, I'd like to see some religious leaders (Pope Francis excepted, he's already spoken on immigration) step up and offer a counter message . . .

. . .like, for instance, the gospel--not the America First gospel or the "we can hate as religious liberty" gospel or the "only white men with money can make the rules" gospel, but you know. . .

. . .the gospel where love is the foundation of the two great commandments and the Good Samaritan didn't pass by the stranger at the side of the road, and the Sermon on the Mount actually matters.

Call me naive (someone on this thread probably will, it's hell ) but I'm still waiting for religious leaders to grab the mic, speak prophetically, and then drop it.

Or maybe it's happening and I'm just waiting for something like that to get as much coverage as Trump's craziness.

sabine
 

---

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
As far as I can tell, Franklin Graham, probably the best known and most widely respected ConEvo US preacher loves the Trump.

Who else is left? And surely, if any speak out against Trump's policies, they're not part of the fold anyway.
 

---

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :
 
Rev. William Barber of the Moral Mondays movement has spoken out (he was in my city just recently) but doesn't get much press.

sabine
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
The head of the Baptist church (I forget his name) has spoken out. Disappointingly, my own rector confined his sermon last Sunday solely to the scripture lesson.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
As far as I can tell, Franklin Graham, probably the best known and most widely respected ConEvo US preacher loves the Trump.

Who else is left? And surely, if any speak out against Trump's policies, they're not part of the fold anyway.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I would have listed Bell, Claibourne, Wallis, Held Evans, Bolz-Weber, Campolo and Jimmy Carter as influential US voices in the public sphere. But they're all - most of the time - people I already agree with, and not really conservatives.

Have any ConEvo leaders stepped up to the plate, or have they all drank the KoolAid?

eta: Rick Warren? Has he said anything?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I would have listed Bell, Claibourne, Wallis, Held Evans, Bolz-Weber, Campolo and Jimmy Carter as influential US voices in the public sphere. But they're all - most of the time - people I already agree with, and not really conservatives.

Have any ConEvo leaders stepped up to the plate, or have they all drank the KoolAid?

eta: Rick Warren? Has he said anything?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabine:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:


One of these ugly fact is the extraordinary ugliness of Trump's behaviour. The latest illustration was at the National Prayer Breakfast. Unbelievably crass, completely inappropriate, egotistical, embarrassing. He simply cannot be hearing what he is saying.

---

How many religious leaders have taken him to task for this? I know he created an awkward reaction at the Prayer Breakfast, but why the seeming silence on the part of religious leaders?

---

Of all of the things that the Trump administration has done in the past two weeks that deserve a response from religious leaders, this one ranks pretty low.

... But I find the remarks at the prayer breakfast more deserving of ridicule than outrage.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The head of the Baptist church (I forget his name) has spoken out. Disappointingly, my own rector confined his sermon last Sunday solely to the scripture lesson.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Franklin Graham is respected? Never before his trumpig support and absolutely not after.I can guarantee that his bible has no religious content in it, no, none at all.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:
Has anyone mentioned the Bowling Green Massacre? There's definitely a Gish Gallop of immense proportions going on. The Republican faithful will dutifully believe whatever they are spoon fed, because only the liberal media are calling the Trumpistas on their heinous fabrications. Inventing a non-existent massacre to justify discrimination against Muslims is jaw-droppingly evil, and I wonder if it isn't time for the oh-so-open-minded to begin to see the parallels with Nazi Germany.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Various:

--Ditto the first part of Ariston's recent post, and much of the rest of it.

--Re 1984: Hopefully, things won't turn out like Starhawk's The Fifth Sacred Thing, or The Handmaid's Tale. (Note: I've only read Starhawk's book, but heard a lot about the others.)


...

---

The Handmaid's Tale is an excellent book, not just an excellent feminist book. It is well worth a read, and the film is well worth a look.
 

---

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
I saw on the National (CBC nightly national TV news) seemingly normal people talking about giving trump a chance, and their agreement with his policies and ideas. I could only ask such people questions. About how they became so fearful.

Because fear has to underlie hatred. Unless it is simply evil. Which this Franklin Graham animal is with calculated statements such as "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion." (no link required, just search for 'very evil and wicked religion' and this hatred-filled degenerate evil man's name).

This is precisely the sort of disgusting behaviour that we have to call out for what it is, underscored for Canadians by the shootings this week in a mosque in Quebec by a homegrown racist terrorist.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
cliffdweller--

ROTFL re the fund. Perfect! Thx for sharing that.

So I wonder when Kellyanne Conway will decide she's had enough, and quit? She's in wayyy over her head. I hope she's got some money and some place she can hide out, because she will be hounded.
 

---

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Naw, she'll land a job on FOX News, home of the alternative facts. No prob.
 

---

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Because fear has to underlie hatred.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:
Has anyone mentioned the Bowling Green Massacre? There's definitely a Gish Gallop of immense proportions going on.

---

This article could be instructive. I see no reason to doubt what the author says.
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I think some of the Trump team could have new jobs writing fiction. They are incredibly good at making things up and being totally convincing about them.
 

---

Posted by Rocinante (# 18541) on :
 
Trump himself is quite clearly suffering from some form of mental ill-health, and therefore has some excuse for the constant stream of phantasmagorical bullshit that pours from his strangely-tinted visage.

The people around Trump, though, are just evil, pure and simple.
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
I understand that there are t-shirts declaring "Je suis Bowling Green."

 

---

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
Whenever I hear 'Bowling Green' I get an earworm of Sidney Poitier singing the song from The Defiant Ones.
 

---

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by mousethief:
Has anyone mentioned the Bowling Green Massacre? There's definitely a Gish Gallop of immense proportions going on.

---

This article could be instructive. I see no reason to doubt what the author says.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabine:
Here is the 'historical marker" for the Bowling Green massacre

sabine

---

 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
An important distinction is now clarified - judge: agrees with Trump. So-called judge (i.e. Not a valid one): disagrees with Trump.
 

---

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
An important distinction is now clarified - judge: agrees with Trump. So-called judge (i.e. Not a valid one): disagrees with Trump.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
An important distinction is now clarified - judge: agrees with Trump. So-called judge (i.e. Not a valid one): disagrees with Trump.

---

disagrees with Trump:
unemployed judge.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
Seriously? Do we HAVE to trawl through anything and everything for explanations and justifications of why Trump acts like an arsehole?

Maybe he's just, you know, a horrible person?

This is nothing more than junk science.

---

I am sort of with you in this. there is a lot of "Is Trump mentally ill" stuff, and it is near offensive. He may have health problems and issues. But he is responsible for his action, his actions are vile, and the evidence is that he is just an obnoxious and despicable person. He has no excuses.
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
My wife and I joined a small anti-Trump demonstration in our town yesterday. Perhaps 150 came along. All right, I'm sure that Trump won't have noticed - but (and I say this as a person who rarely joins in such actions) it felt necessary to do and say somethingh, even if only to salve our consciences.

An account was placed on our local paper's website, and what's amazing is the amount of vitriol that has unleashed (and on a moderated site, too - this isn't Facebook). Comments such as "a rag tag bunch of losers who think they can change the policy of a country 3000 miles away", "dumb liberals", "jumping on the bandwagon" and "deluded individuals who leach of the public purse" (?) are just the start, allied to a generalised comment that we never protest about hings in Britain, which simply isn't true.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Nasty, but don't fret too much about it, BT. At least you did something - and that sort of vitriol is ejaculated by the same fuckwits over anything that rattles their cage. Pity they don't go out and get a life.



IJ
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
Seriously? Do we HAVE to trawl through anything and everything for explanations and justifications of why Trump acts like an arsehole?

Maybe he's just, you know, a horrible person?

This is nothing more than junk science.

---

I am sort of with you in this. there is a lot of "Is Trump mentally ill" stuff, and it is near offensive. He may have health problems and issues. But he is responsible for his action, his actions are vile, and the evidence is that he is just an obnoxious and despicable person. He has no excuses.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Nasty, but don't fret too much about it, BT.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
My wife and I joined a small anti-Trump demonstration in our town yesterday. Perhaps 150 came along. All right, I'm sure that Trump won't have noticed - but (and I say this as a person who rarely joins in such actions) it felt necessary to do and say somethingh, even if only to salve our consciences.

---

This is just one of many posts here on the Ship that make me so grateful to all of you who don't live in the U.S. (England, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and elsewhere), but who are supportive of us who are in the States, and who don't assume all Americans are in favor of the PG in the White House. Thank you.


(If that's too mushy for Hell, tough.)
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
This is just one of many posts here on the Ship that make me so grateful to all of you who don't live in the U.S. (England, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and elsewhere), but who are supportive of us who are in the States, and who don't assume all Americans are in favor of the PG in the White House. Thank you.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Gosh, Hell has become polite!

(Although I echo the sentiments).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Gosh, Hell has become polite!

(Although I echo the sentiments).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Much as I dislike all that, it seems far more appropriate!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I think there is a temptation here to shout and scream about "Bloody Americans" and suchlike. It is always worth a moment to remember that there are many in the US who are as anti-Trump, as appalled by it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
Seriously? Do we HAVE to trawl through anything and everything for explanations and justifications of why Trump acts like an arsehole?

Maybe he's just, you know, a horrible person?

---

quote:

---

This is nothing more than junk science.

---

quote:

---

Said 'You're Fired' to Attorney Gen. Sally Yates! Hurrah! Am top POTUS Nigey sent me thumbs up Rest of UK being a bit of a bitch actually

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
[...] What shits me is the attempt to medicalise it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Maybe you haven't seen his debates with Hillary. He was very clearly unhinged. There've been many other things, since then, that make it clear that *something* is wrong. I'm not sure that he's capable of behaving much differently than he does.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
...the lovable personality of a wet fart...

---

quote:

---

Thwart him often enough, he'll either give up or break the constitution

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by orfeo:
Seriously? Do we HAVE to trawl through anything and everything for explanations and justifications of why Trump acts like an arsehole?

Maybe he's just, you know, a horrible person?

---

quote:

---

This is nothing more than junk science.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by irish_lord99:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
...the lovable personality of a wet fart...

---

You're quite generous here... wet farts are funny in retrospect.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It is pseudo-science, since you can't diagnose someone at a distance, although I suppose it's fair enough to use it as an insult, like calling somebody mad.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:

quote:

---

Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It is pseudo-science, since you can't diagnose someone at a distance, although I suppose it's fair enough to use it as an insult, like calling somebody mad.

---

There's a long and interesting history of such from Wikipedia listing, particularly re famous people. Apparently 4000 or so are available since 1910.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I've been reading some biographies of Sylvia Plath and they vary between respectful (she had certain issues), and half-baked nonsense (she was a schizophrenic). Generally, this is done with the dead, since they can't sue.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Trump's problem appears to be that no one ever told him 'no'. That will, inevitably, produce pathologies and aberrant behaviours, but at its root cause is simply he's always got what he wanted, and could use his cheque book to get out of trouble.

Now, he can't. His first resort is going to be bullying and sacking, but his second will be to surround himself with people who'll never tell him no.

Thwart him often enough, he'll either give up or break the constitution, depending on how badly he wants it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
People have seen Melissa McCarthy's turn on Saturday Night Live, yes? A bravura performance in the role of the miserable Sean Spicer, press secretary to Li'l Donny. Spicer was so foolish as to comment, complaining that the skit was 'mean.'

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jane R:
It's a government project, so it will be thrown together at the last minute after everyone else has done theirs. Boris Johnson has pencilled in the date for shooting it. They're still arguing over which department should be responsible for writing the script - at the moment it's a three-way fight between the FO, the Department for Brexit and the Department for International Trade, but insiders have not yet ruled out the possibility of the creation of a Ministry for Truth.

---

quote:

---

Amusing, however none of them are government sponsored. They are all late-night shows doing parody.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Pete--

I'm surprised he's not sending her to Russia. After all, she used to be able to see it from her old house.

What might happen if Canada refused her credentials? How often is that done?

Thx.

---

I believe it can be done, but it rarely happens. The Gee acts on the advice of the Government and I doubt that JT's government want to upset US before the NAFTA talks. Unless the government grew a set of moral standards. And even in 2016, that is highly unlikely.
 

---

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
Now this is satire I can get behind!
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Wonderful - and so true.....



IJ
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
You have to think of this as Canada taking one for its southern neighbor. We've been trying to get rid of her for years.
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
You have to think of this as Canada taking one for its southern neighbor. We've been trying to get rid of her for years.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
You have to think of this as Canada taking one for its southern neighbor. We've been trying to get rid of her for years.

---

But couldn't we send her to a country we don't particularly like?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
trump lies again, says media covers up terrorist attacks.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jane R:
lilbuddha:

quote:

---

Amusing, however none of them are government sponsored. They are all late-night shows doing parody.

---

Yes, I knew that. My point being that *our* government is the only one that actually might do something like that for real. You might have got a hint from the comment about the Ministry of Truth...

---

Will it have a fish-slapping dance? Please please please please?
 

---

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
The Ministry of Truth works on the motto "Ignorance is Strength". Don't confuse it with the Ministry of Silly Walks - that's what they want you to do, along with believing 2+2=5.
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
The great political cartoonist Oliphant has been retired for some years now, but current events have drawn him back to his pen. So there's a silver lining to the heavy clouds around us.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 


Scary stuff - because believable...

IJ
 

---

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The great political cartoonist Oliphant has been retired for some years now, but current events have drawn him back to his pen. So there's a silver lining to the heavy clouds around us.

---

I found the previous page more illuminating - some of the less-well-publicised ones are actually quite far-reaching.
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
A general summary of the catastrphes of the last few days. I think this conclusively proves that Li'l Donny is hand in hand with Putin. Otherwise the Russians would, like Kim Jong Un, already have moved to take advantage of our disarray.
 

---

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
America and 45 have shown some sense at last: Sarah Palin will not be Ambassador to Canada.

That being said, I hope 45 will be "In like Flynn"
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
For St. Valentine's Day one of your classic romantic quizzes: Which White House staffer is your Muse? Deliciously mean.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Re Brenda Clough's "catastrophes" link.

The levels of incompetence are breathtaking. But I suppose that's good on one level. It's getting in the way of at least some of the bad things the administration wants to do because it thinks they are good. It would be quite good if they stayed incompetent, rather than learned how to be more effective.

The world is a complicated place. And the most powerful country in the world is being led by a man impatient with detail and suffering from some kind of chronic attention deficit disorder. That would be OK if his staff knew how to control his dangerous excesses. But clearly they don't.

[ 15. February 2017, 08:54: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

---

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Perhaps the incompetance is deliberate - a careful strategy to be seen doing what Trump dictates, but to make sure none of the stupid ideas actually manage to happen.
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
You are not the first to think this. This should be a free click. The PGinC administration as the plot of Moby Dick. The happier scenario is one in which the captain "periodically shows up on deck to shake his fist at the moon and order a summary flogging, but for the most part he stays in his cabin emitting strange barks while competent mates and petty officers sail the NSC."
 

---

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
An opinion piece with a little hope attached.

By some oddball called Simon Jenkins
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boogie:
An opinion piece with a little hope attached.

By some oddball called Simon Jenkins

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boogie:
An opinion piece with a little hope attached.

By some oddball called Simon Jenkins

---

But not our Simon Jenkins.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I have been following the Trump Press Conference on twitter, and the general opinion is he has done himself no favours.

Anyone watch it? And thoughts? I really couldn't face it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I have been following the Trump Press Conference on twitter, and the general opinion is he has done himself no favours.

Anyone watch it? And thoughts? I really couldn't face it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:

We've generally been told "don't judge him; you're being partisan; you're spoilsports; he's a great businessman, so obviously his brain is working; he can't possibly be that bad; you're sore losers; he won the election, so don't try to stop him from being inaugurated; if he does something impeachable, get rid of him then; oh, it's all just political rhetoric, he doesn't mean it and he'll never do it; he's just playing to his base".

---

quote:

---

In Purg, it's gotten to the point where it seems non-American Shipmates mostly just want to talk to each other.

---

quote:

---

And if American Shipmates had acted the same way about someone else's country, we would've had our heads handed to us in a pond war to end all pond wars.

---

I don't think this is completely accurate.
Trump isn't your problem, he is all of ours. Brexit will affect America as well as Europe. Politics from any major world player affects the rest and is subject to discussion. Yes, there are pond issues sometimes, but that gets quashed fairly quickly, IMO.


Not saying I am correct and you are not, but that I see it differently.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
lilBuddha--

Thanks for the careful way you worded that. Not going to respond at this point. I need to kick back and relax.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
The question was specifically about the news conference.

Here is a UK media view.

This persuasive new evidence of insanity in the US President is not just a US problem. Whether or not it is a confirmation of earlier judgment s because of his behaviour as a candidate.

I agree with the comments of the US Senator as reported in that article. At the very least, the man is in urgent need of a therapist.
 

---

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
He said himself that he enjoyed it.

I think he craves attention - and the more he gets the more his craving grows.

What he says to get that attention is entirely secondary, he gives it little thought (and cares even less)

All we can think now is 'how much longer can this charade go on'??
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I don’t think he’s clinically insane. That’s offensive to the genuinely mentally ill.

I do think he’s utterly incompetent, deluded and out of his depth. And above all, that press conference leaves no doubt in my mind that he was in cahoots with the Russians before the election. I am mainly wondering how long it will take for him to get found out.
 

---

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
lilbuddha:

quote:

---

Trump isn't your problem, he is all of ours. Brexit will affect America as well as Europe. Politics from any major world player affects the rest and is subject to discussion.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I don’t think he’s clinically insane. That’s offensive to the genuinely mentally ill.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarasa:
I agree Jane R about what is happening in the UK and am rather in despair as to how to stop it (my MP appears to have gone AWOL on the topic). Back to Trump, I watched the (edited) news conference on the BBC Ten O'Clock news. The theme , well at least the theme the BBC were going with, was the 'trust me, everything you hear is fake news' one. If I was a Trump supporter I guess I'd buy into that. What is it going to take for his fan base to realise that not every newspaper and TV company in the Country is in a conspiracy against him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boogie:

I went on his Facebook page - his supporters are ardent, completely with him and repeating everything he says.

What this says about them I don't know. Do they see the same man I see? This press conference wasn't hidden, it was out there for all to see his bullying, erratic ways. How can they possibly think he says any of it in good faith?

I get more perplexed by the day. Some of his supporters are intelligent, ordinary people - yes?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Anyone sending a little card for the ides of Trump? I am looking for one with a picture of the Eiffel Tower and the Parisian statue of Liberty (same as the one in New York but smaller). I am going to write "Dear Mr President, we want our statue back. -France".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
I was able to watch most of the press conference as I was at home for lunch. It was jaw-dropping - one of the most bizarre spectacles of public life I have ever witnessed. It was how I imagine a Mussolini press conference.

---

quote:

---

Step #1: Someone must explain to Trump that the campaign is over. That this is not a "reality" TV exercise. This is for real. People will not be fired - they will die.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Well, I am doing my part. I have been knitting pussyhats like the wind. And because this weekend is notably springlike and clement in the region, and yet there are no protest marches scheduled (that I know of), I am going to give the president a pussyhat. It is carefully and safely enclosed in a zip-loc bag, so the security people may feel calm about it.
The note enclosed (handwritten with a Sharpie) says: Dear Mr. President, I know you are sad because everyone else had a pussyhat and you did not. So I made you one. If you wear it you will feel better. Sincerely.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jane R:

I understand there is some debate over whether he's genuinely mentally ill or just an arsehole: see here , the relevant quote being "Trump causes severe distress rather than experiencing it and has been richly rewarded... for his grandiosity, self-absorption and lack of empathy."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

We are too quick, sometimes, to assign to mental health problems things that can easily be explained by the fact that people are shit.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HCH:
Re: the comment about Mussolini. It remains to be seen whether Trump will make the trains run on time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

We are too quick, sometimes, to assign to mental health problems things that can easily be explained by the fact that people are shit.

---

Maybe. He certainly fits a part of the narcissistic personality disorder pattern. And I thought I spotted some deterioration in that bizarre news conference.

But I agree in general that not all failings can be attributed to mental illness.

---

quote:

---

I am in hopes a pussyhat would help. (I once wrote a short story, in which knitting did.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
From his Twitter: "...media are the enemy of the American people." Enemy of the people? This is happening more quickly than I had anticipated.

---

quote:

---

As the scandal surrounding his campaign's ties to Russia grows, Trump wants the public to think it's all the doing of the dishonest media. But journalists are not letting up, and the vast majority of Americans are not going to fall for Trump's tactics for very long. Even on the generally-supportive Fox News channel, the brave Shepard Smith called him out. "It's absolutely crazy," Smith said. "He keeps repeating ridiculous throwaway lines that are not true at all and sort of avoiding this issue of Russia as if we're some kind of fools for asking the question."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarasa:
The whole 'the media is lying' thing is worringing. Would Trump have any powers to curtail the freedom of the press in the way Erdogan has done in Turkey, or would that final be a step too far?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:

Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.

---

Examples are helpful. Can you produce one from the UK papers where a story critical of Trump was "full of hype, spin and fake news"? One will do.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boogie:
I don't think Trump knows the difference between news and opinion.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.

---

Examples are helpful. Can you produce one from the UK papers where a story critical of Trump was "full of hype, spin and fake news"? One will do.

---

I wasn't referring specifically to Trump, but to news in general. Look no further than the Daily Express and Daily Mail for a compilation of untruths and misrepresentations so outlandish that I feel that the Brothers Grimm would make a more reliable source of factual information.
So what I meant was that this is one of the very few things I could agree with Trump in principle, but look at it from a near-opposite political angle.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
Again: I wasn't referring specifically to Trump, but to the news in general.

Of course I don't think he's criticising the UK press; I am. What I am saying is that much of the British press is extremely shoddy and if they don't run fake news, then at least something pretty close to it (in fact, I referred to the D. Express and D. Mail which are both pretty pro-Trump, btw). It is exactly this kind of media behaviour that makes it possible for Trump and his ilk to attack the media and make the attack stick, namely because he is at least partly right.

---

quote:

---

Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
All this banging on fake news is overblown hyperbole IMO. If there ever comes a time when individual US journalists, relentlessly dissing DT, start mysteriously disappearing then my alarm bells will be ringing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
Thing is, we in the UK are well used to fake news.
Peace in our time? WMD's deployed in 45 minutes? A shallow, short-lived economic 'dip' in 08?... to name but a few.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I'm sure there are similar examples of fake news in US media over as long a period.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
Dave, please read me in context. I didn't stop there:

Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.

I am not talking about Trump criticising the media pertaining only to Trump, I'm talking about Trump's general criticism of the media that it is full of hype, spin and fake news.

---

quote:

---

And that is as true for the British media as it is for the American. (Having at last found something I to some extent agree on with the bastard, I've kind of got to make a thing of it!)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
And that is as true for the British media as it is for the American. (Having at last found something I to some extent agree on with the bastard, I've kind of got to make a thing of it!)

---

No, there's really no obligation for you to follow him into the pool of idiocy in which he splashes about. This is entirely your choice.

---

Ok. I'll break it down into chicken-nugget sized morsels for you without conjunctions:

1. Trump notes that a lot of media produce fake news.
2. I agree with this finding.
3. It is amazing that I agree with him on anything at all.
4. I remark that parts of the British press have been producing fake-news for years.
5. I do not agree with Trump on which media or on which particular news.
6. I mention The Daily Express and The Daily Mail as examples.
7. The Daily Express and The Daily Mail are very-pro Trump.
8. Trump has probably never heard of these newspapers.

Further clarifications:
a. I do not think the media is the enemy of the people.
b. Trump expresses popular half-truths to seduce people.
b. I do not think that Trump is sane.
c. I am not (I think ) following him into a pool of idiocy for agreeing with him on one single thing.
d. Even broken clocks show the right time twice a day.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Interesting example of fake news.

From the Master of fake news.
 

---

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
I wonder how much fake news would fail to be reported if Trump had a good night sleep rather than send a barrage of tweets at two in the morning.
 

---

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
if Trump had a good night sleep

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Interesting example of fake news.

From the Master of fake news.

---

Looks like he confused Sweden with Sehwan in Pakistan..

Easily done
 

---

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :
 
Thanks, Boogs. - Oh.dear.God!
 

---

Posted by Dave W. (# 8765) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
And that is as true for the British media as it is for the American. (Having at last found something I to some extent agree on with the bastard, I've kind of got to make a thing of it!)

---

No, there's really no obligation for you to follow him into the pool of idiocy in which he splashes about. This is entirely your choice.

---

Ok. I'll break it down into chicken-nugget sized morsels for you without conjunctions:

1. Trump notes that a lot of media produce fake news.

---

quote:

---

2. I agree with this finding.
3. It is amazing that I agree with him on anything at all.

---

quote:

---

c. I am not (I think ) following him into a pool of idiocy for agreeing with him on one single thing.

---

quote:

---

d. Even broken clocks show the right time twice a day.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Interesting example of fake news.

From the Master of fake news.

---

Here's the story of what really happened in Sweden Friday night. (The moose story is particularly heart-wrenching.)
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
The moose story is worth passing on to CNN.
 

---

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
re Trump making a gnomic reference to an 'event' in Sweden, I like the comment from Carl Bildt (PM of Sweden in the early 1990s), which was Vad har han rökt? (What has he been smoking?)
 

---

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
Here is a letter I sent to Senator McCain this morning:

quote:

---

Dear Senator McCain:

I am writing to let you know that I support you completely in your effort to expose the usurper whom the Electoral College has seen fit to install in the White House. I cannot call him the President; he is certainly not my President.

I have not always been in agreement with you on some of your positions, but you are spot on in this instance. Your office was also of great help to my father when his application for veterans' benefits became stalled.

We are fortunate to have a senior statesman such as yourself representing our interests. Please persevere! Perhaps you can persuade enough of your colleagues to make the time short until we once again have someone occupying the White House who is worthy of the honor.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Thank you for your ad hominem observations. In my mind he is a usurper and he is not my President. McCain is free to think as he wishes. Now let's get on with the thread, shall we?

---

Ad hominem would mean I am attacking you, not the issue. And I am not doing that. If you are writing to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out. If you are wishing to have an effect, then you need to understand the rules of perception.
And what you wrote will most likely be perceived as I suggest.
There is one sure way to avoid comments you don't like on what you post, btw.
 

---

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
Am I the only one in the room to be eerily reminded by the Florida rally of some charismatic conferences I've been in?
 

---

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
And that is as true for the British media as it is for the American. (Having at last found something I to some extent agree on with the bastard, I've kind of got to make a thing of it!)

---

No, there's really no obligation for you to follow him into the pool of idiocy in which he splashes about. This is entirely your choice.

---

Ok. I'll break it down into chicken-nugget sized morsels for you without conjunctions:

1. Trump notes that a lot of media produce fake news.

---

This is a very stupid mischaracterization of what Trump is doing. You have already failed at the first hurdle.

quote:

---

2. I agree with this finding.
3. It is amazing that I agree with him on anything at all.

---

Possibly not so amazing. You are, after all, someone who somehow thinks the behavior of the Daily Mail and Daily Express is what "makes it possible for Trump and his ilk to attack the media" when neither Trump nor his audience gives the slightest fuck about the UK press.

quote:

---

c. I am not (I think ) following him into a pool of idiocy for agreeing with him on one single thing.

---

You don't even understand what you think you're agreeing with. Possibly you're still wandering around trying to find the pool of idiocy.

quote:

---

d. Even broken clocks show the right time twice a day.

---

This quaint saying isn't meant to be something you should aspire to as a life goal.

---

Whattt??? I haven't the foggiest idea what you're on about. Either you're incapable of linear thought or you're winding me up.
 

---

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
The two options are not incompatible.
 

---

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by L'organist:
re Trump making a gnomic reference to an 'event' in Sweden, I like the comment from Carl Bildt (PM of Sweden in the early 1990s), which was Vad har han rökt? (What has he been smoking?)

---

I'm a Swedish-American who likes to keep in touch with the homeland. I know exactly what happened, and it's terrifying.

Friday, February 17 was the Swedish nameday for all those named Alexandra. Let this be a lesson to us all.

sabine
 

---

Posted by Dave W. (# 8765) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:
Whattt??? I haven't the foggiest idea what you're on about. Either you're incapable of linear thought or you're winding me up.

---

• Your characterization of what Trump says and does is fundamentally mistaken. Trump does not "note that a lot of media produce fake news"; he points to true reports in (e.g.) the New York Times and calls them fake news, while he himself casually spreads easily disproved falsehoods. He is essentially a bullshitter.
• That you "agree with this finding" is laughable. Bullshitters don't note things or make findings; it's not like he's contributing to critical discourse on the state of the media.
• Blaming the Daily Mail and Daily Express for Trump's behavior just compounds the stupidity of your position. It doesn't matter how inane, fatuous, and misleading they may be - none of what they say makes any difference to either Trump specifically or American politics generally. They have no salience here. Their behavior, however reprehensible, can hardly be blamed for his.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:
I'm not sure how I can make it any simpler for you:

---

quote:

---

[*]Your characterization of what Trump says and does is fundamentally mistaken. Trump does not "note that a lot of media produce fake news"; he points to true reports in (e.g.) the New York Times and calls them fake news, while he himself casually spreads easily disproved falsehoods. He is essentially a bullshitter.

---

In fact he does, but what he more usually does is point to true news and call it fake. However, he only gets any traction because the first statement is true.

quote:

---

[*]That you "agree with this finding" is laughable. Bullshitters don't note things or make findings; it's not like he's contributing to critical discourse on the state of the media.

---

I agree with the general finding, and I actually don't think you disagree with it either.

quote:

---

[*]Blaming the Daily Mail and Daily Express for Trump's behavior just compounds the stupidity of your position. It doesn't matter how inane, fatuous, and misleading they may be - none of what they say makes any difference to either Trump specifically or American politics generally. They have no salience here. Their behavior, however reprehensible, can hardly be blamed for his.

---

And this is where you go totally off the rails. I did not blame Trump's behaviour on these newspapers. Trump is Trump and will do what he does as soon as he has an audience. But they have helped create the conditions in which people like Trump become credible spokespersons in the minds of some people.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Has it occurred to anybody that perhaps Trump and his people are immigrants from a different timeline, and in their universe there actually were attacks? It could explain the surreal stuf they say.
 

---

Posted by Dave W. (# 8765) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by molopata:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave W.:
I'm not sure how I can make it any simpler for you:

---

Well I can give you credit for a least coming with a set of statements that can be understood this time.

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

[*]Your characterization of what Trump says and does is fundamentally mistaken. Trump does not "note that a lot of media produce fake news"; he points to true reports in (e.g.) the New York Times and calls them fake news, while he himself casually spreads easily disproved falsehoods. He is essentially a bullshitter.

---

In fact he does, but what he more usually does is point to true news and call it fake. However, he only gets any traction because the first statement is true.

quote:

---

[*]That you "agree with this finding" is laughable. Bullshitters don't note things or make findings; it's not like he's contributing to critical discourse on the state of the media.

---

I agree with the general finding, and I actually don't think you disagree with it either.

quote:

---

[*]Blaming the Daily Mail and Daily Express for Trump's behavior just compounds the stupidity of your position. It doesn't matter how inane, fatuous, and misleading they may be - none of what they say makes any difference to either Trump specifically or American politics generally. They have no salience here. Their behavior, however reprehensible, can hardly be blamed for his.

---

And this is where you go totally off the rails. I did not blame Trump's behaviour on these newspapers. Trump is Trump and will do what he does as soon as he has an audience. But they have helped create the conditions in which people like Trump become credible spokespersons in the minds of some people.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Has it occurred to anybody that perhaps Trump and his people are immigrants from a different timeline, and in their universe there actually were attacks? It could explain the surreal stuf they say.

---

Do you mean like the evil alternate universe of Star Trek? Was the trump from this replaced with the evil maniacal one? That is among the sanest things said so far to explain this whole crazy mess.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
That's precisely what I was thinking of!
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I was thinking of the alternate realities in The Hitch-hiker's Guide To the Galaxy except it lacks the humour.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boogie:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Interesting example of fake news.

From the Master of fake news.

---

Looks like he confused Sweden with Sehwan in Pakistan..

Easily done

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabine:

quote:

---

Originally posted by L'organist:
re Trump making a gnomic reference to an 'event' in Sweden, I like the comment from Carl Bildt (PM of Sweden in the early 1990s), which was Vad har han rökt? (What has he been smoking?)

---

I'm a Swedish-American who likes to keep in touch with the homeland. I know exactly what happened, and it's terrifying.

Friday, February 17 was the Swedish nameday for all those named Alexandra. Let this be a lesson to us all.

---

...which was the name of the last czarina of Russia. The Russians, again!

 

---

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
. Obama described Trump as having "severe learning disabilities". If that's true, T might well have problems reading, or making sense of what he hears. And I've long wondered if he has some hearing difficulties.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Has it occurred to anybody that perhaps Trump and his people are immigrants from a different timeline, and in their universe there actually were attacks? It could explain the surreal stuf they say.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
And I've long wondered if he has some hearing difficulties.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
Boogie--

Apologies if I caused any offense. I don't have a problem with a president with learning disabilities, provided they're aware of them and have ways of coping. Rewriting, as you said; an assistant; text-to-voice software, so they don't have to read; hearing aids, etc.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:

And if he has both severe mental illness and severe learning disabilities (and possibly side-effects from a medication that's known for them), to the point where he can't function in a job that has serious consequences...

---

Or maybe he's just an arsehole. Occam's razor and all that.
 

---

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
It is denigratory to persons with mental illness, to call the PGinC mentally ill. And the Arsehole Defamation League will be in touch with you! Anal sphincters perform a useful societal function! To use them to describe Lyin' Donald is an insult.
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
Also, since the PG is an American (I'm sorry to say), he is an asshole, not an arsehole.


 

---

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
"There's a hole in my donkey, dear Liza, dear Liza".
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
My pussyhat has made it to America without being confiscated by the authorities (the customs declaration said “bonnet en laine” (woolly hat). This is fortunate because my SiL has just given herself a rather disastrous home hair cut which she can now cover up with sassy protest .
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Are you certain that Pussygrabber is an American?



Has anyone seen his birth certificate? He looks rather....er...... foreign, going by his colour. Mexican, perhaps? Certainly a Bad Hombre...



IJ
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Are you certain that Pussygrabber is an American?



Has anyone seen his birth certificate? He looks rather....er...... foreign, going by his colour. Mexican, perhaps? Certainly a Bad Hombre...



IJ

---

Maybe Mars?
 

---

Posted by Stephen (# 40) on :
 
Now, Pidwidgeon, we all know that he's a Slitheen

We need the imminent return of the Tardis with Dr.Who, Captain Jack Harkness, Sarah Jane Smith and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister.........

Perhaps also Mickey Smith and Martha Jones just for good measure
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stephen:
and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stephen:
Now, Pidwidgeon, we all know that he's a Slitheen

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stephen:
and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister..

---

We know who she is.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stephen:
Now, Pidwidgeon, we all know that he's a Slitheen

We need the imminent return of the Tardis with Dr.Who, Captain Jack Harkness, Sarah Jane Smith and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister.........

Perhaps also Mickey Smith and Martha Jones just for good measure

---

Most of my Whovian knowledge is up through Peter Davison. I saw some Colin Baker and Patrick what's-his-name. Then nothing available for years, then a few eps of David Tennant, then none available again.

Anyway, I'll add to your list: Tegan, Nyssa, Adric, the brigadier, both Romanas, Lela, and dear Binro (not a companion, but a wonderful character from the "Key To Time" story line").

And, of course, K-9.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stephen:
and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister..

---

We know who she is.

---

Not everyone is dedicated to Dr. Who.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rocinante:
Who could he sue, and in what court?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Why the f**k anyone, whether brown, Muslim, or anything else, would actually want to go to America at the moment (except, perhaps, for pressing family reasons) beats me.

Apologies to all the millions upon millions of decent, non-racist, welcoming Americans whom I know exist....one day, perhaps soon, your country will be free again....

IJ

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doc Tor:

It only takes a few incidents like this to say to brown people of whatever nationality, "Don't bother coming to the US. You might get in. You might not. Going to take that risk? Thought not."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Why the f**k anyone, whether brown, Muslim, or anything else, would actually want to go to America at the moment (except, perhaps, for pressing family reasons) beats me.

Apologies to all the millions upon millions of decent, non-racist, welcoming Americans whom I know exist....one day, perhaps soon, your country will be free again....

IJ

---

And indeed why the f**k anyone would want to come to this poxy little island is beyond me. If I had a clear way out to somewhere better- Germany, Benelux or Scandinavia for choice, but pretty much anywhere in western (EU) Europe would do- I'd go like a shot. (In fact, so ghastly is this country at present that we can use this as a rule of thumb when looking at migrants and asylum seekers. They are either (i) coming from somewhere so bloody awful that even this place looks good, which suggests they are truly desperate & should be viewed with some sympathy; or (ii) the kind of people who actually like the look of this place, in itself, in which case they are precisely not the sort of people we want any more of.)
 

---

Posted by Stephen (# 40) on :
 
Apologies to Golden Key and Pidwidgeon and others - I should have realised that not everyone grew up on Dr.Who like I did!

Albertus - yes. It might be worth noting though that the rise of far-right sentiment is not restricted to the USA or UK........Unfortunately.
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
It probably isn't worth the effort to mention even more examples of Comrade Trump's blatant hypocrisy, but this report from that well-known liberal bastion, Forbes, makes me grind my teeth in frustration.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
The BBC reports Pussygrabber's latest infamy (well, news to me, at any rate):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39047883

Are there no depths to which this orange slug will not stoop in order to make already challenging lives that much more difficult? The infantile dictator is now busily pulling the wings off flies...

IJ
 

---

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
The privacy of girls trumps that of transgender people. And he's flipflopped on it, giving in to Republican pressure.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
The kind of privacy the Pussygrabber gave those girls in the changing rooms...??

Bastard.

May he rot in the lowest and slimiest Malbolge of Hell, with his privy members changing from one gender to another all the time.

IJ
 

---

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
May he grab and find male members. May he grab and find vagina dentata.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 


Not sure why I'm getting so uptight about transgender issues. It's not a subject with which I am at all familiar, and as far as I know, I'm not acquainted with anyone who is transgender.

It just seems to me that Pussygrabber is bent (no pun intended) on pooping on just about everyone who really could do with not being pooped on more than they are already.

Quite a contrast to his predecessor in office, no?

IJ
 

---

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny S:
The privacy of girls trumps that of transgender people.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny S:
The privacy of girls trumps that of transgender people.

---

In the US, almost all women's (and girls') restrooms have individual stalls with locking doors. The few that don't (usually in parks or campgrounds) were undoubtedly designed by men, and in my experience, most women avoid using them if at all possible (I'd rather use a dodgy ports-potty). If you're worried about girls' privacy, the easiest/cheapest/least intrusive solution is simply to legislate that all women's restrooms (as well as men's I suppose-- I'll let the guys decide if they want urinals to be "use at your own risk") have locking stall doors.

Problem solved.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Suppose a person who was listed as female on her birth certificate has transgendered to male. He's now a full-grown, macho, muscular man. Would Trump want him in the same restroom as his granddaughters, just because his birth certificate says 'female'?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It isn't about reason or logic. It is using fear-mongering to pander to their base.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cliffdweller:
In the US, almost all women's (and girls') restrooms have individual stalls with locking doors. The few that don't (usually in parks or campgrounds) were undoubtedly designed by men, and in my experience, most women avoid using them if at all possible (I'd rather use a dodgy ports-potty). If you're worried about girls' privacy, the easiest/cheapest/least intrusive solution is simply to legislate that all women's restrooms (as well as men's I suppose-- I'll let the guys decide if they want urinals to be "use at your own risk") have locking stall doors.

Problem solved.

---

Sorry - US public 'bathrooms' (in which you don't bath), 'restrooms' (in which you only rest for a very short while, if at all) or toilets have always been a mystery to me. Are you saying that men's cubicle doors don't lock? And sometimes women's don't either? Are there doors or cubicles at all, or just rows of loos without any privacy?

Would that be the case for places like restaurants or supermarkets or shopping centres or petrol stations, or schools?

This European perhaps doesn't grasp the full extent of the story. It sounds right hellish in itself, and 'Roman very public loos' to me. Thanks for elucidating!
 

---

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wesley J:
Are you saying that men's cubicle doors don't lock? And sometimes women's don't either? Are there doors or cubicles at all, or just rows of loos without any privacy?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wesley J:
Are you saying that men's cubicle doors don't lock? And sometimes women's don't either? Are there doors or cubicles at all, or just rows of loos without any privacy?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
The only place I've seen doorless stalls in public women's rooms in the U.S. is on Waikiki Beach many years ago (don't know if they still have them). I assume the doors were removed because of illegal activity, but using one while wearing a one-piece swimsuit is horrid.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boogie:
don't bother with urinals, they are not needed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boogie:
don't bother with urinals, they are not needed.

---

They are much more efficient. By installing urinals, you can take several times the amount of piss per square foot.

(You get a factor of about two for efficiency in terms of approaching the urinal vs entering a stall and closing the door. You get another factor of 2-3 in required floorspace for a stall vs a urinal.)

For low-traffic facilities, you don't care. For high-traffic areas, you very much do.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Decision made by men, I assume.*
Those I encountered were mostly in the desert South-west at remote, low visitor tourist sites so one is spared that level of indignity at least.

*Before anybody gets their budgy-smugglers in a twist, I mean out of ignorance not necessarily misogyny.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
{Slight tangent. Possibly NSFW.}

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Decision made by men, I assume.*
Those I encountered were mostly in the desert South-west at remote, low visitor tourist sites so one is spared that level of indignity at least.

*Before anybody gets their budgy-smugglers in a twist, I mean out of ignorance not necessarily misogyny.

---

On that topic, some ...misguided... man
came up with a way for women to, uh, seal our plumbing together on a monthly basis. (Let the reader understand.) NSFW for words, and possibly for a video that I can't start.

---

What the serious fuck?! He should be given some penis glue so he doesn't wet himself.

ETA: The vid is not directly related to the text. It is about body positivity, so there is a link, but it is not about the subject of the article.

[ 24. February 2017, 03:20: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
lB--

Thanks, re video.

I'm guessing he got disgusted by the trash usually produced, and decided to Take Steps.

 

---

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
On that topic, some ...misguided... man
came up with a way for women to, uh, seal our plumbing together on a monthly basis.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
You'll pry urinals from my cold, dead hands. . . . I've pissed against the wall. . . . Didn't bother me in the least.

---

Well, as long as we don't have to pry them from another part of your anatomy.

There's something to be said for the fine old trough-style urinal. As the linked-to article says: "Brothers are made at the trough."
 

---

Posted by Liopleurodon (# 4836) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny S:
The privacy of girls trumps that of transgender people. And he's flipflopped on it, giving in to Republican pressure.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabine:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny S:
The privacy of girls trumps that of transgender people.

---

In the US, almost all women's (and girls') restrooms have individual stalls with locking doors. The few that don't (usually in parks or campgrounds) were undoubtedly designed by men, and in my experience, most women avoid using them if at all possible (I'd rather use a dodgy ports-potty). If you're worried about girls' privacy, the easiest/cheapest/least intrusive solution is simply to legislate that all women's restrooms (as well as men's I suppose-- I'll let the guys decide if they want urinals to be "use at your own risk") have locking stall doors.

Problem solved.

---

Well, this is certainly one of the few times when conservatives and the alt right care about the rights or feelings of women in an issue.

sabine

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

I just hope that Pussygrabber and his minions become incontinent, and have to go around smelling of piss because they are banned from loos.

---

They can always use the penis glue mentioned above.


 

---

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabine:
cliffdweller, I was being sarcastic, and I agree with your response to my quip.

sabine

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I just hope that Pussygrabber and his minions become incontinent

---

Become?
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
White House bars New York Times, CNN, other news outlets from briefing.

It just gets unbelievably worse and worse every day -- and he gets away with it!

 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Given the chaos of his press conference last week, they are not missing anything significant.

I think what it means is that they are no longer proper press conferences. They are baby-hands talking to his friends.

But yes, it is disgraceful. Another example of Trump refusing to be a President. I just wonder how long his aides will put up with his stupidity, before they stop protecting him, and let him be eaten.
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I just wonder how long his aides will put up with his stupidity, before they stop protecting him, and let him be eaten.

---

I don't know that they will -- revolution will have to come from outside their group.

Trump's minions are acting like schoolyard bullies. They're getting away with all this garbage because they can -- they've got the Big Bully on their side, so they can taunt the rest of us.
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
And like most schoolyard bullies, they don't have a whole lot of brain power: Two men got the Conservative Political Action Conference to wave Russian flags with Trump’s name on them.


 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Is Outrage!



I wonder if Pussygrabber and his minions even know where Russia is.

Or Sweden, for that matter.

IJ
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Is Outrage!



I wonder if Pussygrabber and his minions even know where Russia is.

Or Sweden, for that matter.

IJ

---

Sarah Palin can tell him where Russia is -- she can see it from her backyard.


(Yes, I know that was actually Saturday Night Live, but...)
 

---

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
And like most schoolyard bullies, they don't have a whole lot of brain power: Two men got the Conservative Political Action Conference to wave Russian flags with Trump’s name on them.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
The only place I've seen doorless stalls in public women's rooms in the U.S. is on Waikiki Beach many years ago (don't know if they still have them). I assume the doors were removed because of illegal activity, but using one while wearing a one-piece swimsuit is horrid.

---

Decision made by men, I assume.
Those I encountered were mostly in the desert South-west at remote, low visitor tourist sites so one is spared that level of indignity at least.

---

quote:

---

Trump told the country’s biggest annual gathering of conservative activists that he would crush the Islamic State, deport criminals, crack down on welfare, overhaul healthcare and put miners back to work.

---

We seem to have a war on welfare here, while they want to give large businesses, some of whom pay little or no tax, tax cuts. But stuff the poor...stuff those struggling due to circumstances outside their control...stuff those mentally or physically ill...

Bloody politicians should have to live on benefits for a month and see how they go.
 

---

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
That is often the case in airports as well. It's for the convenience not only of handicapped persons, but of persons towing rolling suitcases.

---

It's good for hygiene, too. A lot of people zip it up and then leave without washing their hands. I hate having to touch outside doors in those places.
 

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Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
The trump* quotes painted on the bodies in this link are NSFW, and not safe for any civilized human being. Disgusting. The bodies on which they are painted are fine as far as I am concerned.

Re shaking trump's* hand. No. Don't do it.


*trump. gets a lower case t. low class, lower case.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I Know This Is A Christian Website, but this sounds like a Good Idea (if only for letting off steam.....):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39090334



IJ
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I have a writer friend who runs a New Agey shop in Gloucestershire. I have urged her to set up an online service; there are plenty of Americans who would pay good money for a working from a bona fide witch.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
All right, this is funny, but I'm not sure if the link will act -- it should take you to an image on Facebook. It is a nice chart of crystals and what they can do for you in the current political climate. My favorite: "Lapis lazuli. Get a big one and drop it on a racist's head. Great for warding off negative energy."
 

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Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :
 
I live close to a botanica. I could get a candle for "The Seven African Powers." Pretty sure they could withstand extreme vetting.

sabine
 

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Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
I hate having to touch outside doors in those places.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:

quote:

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Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
I hate having to touch outside doors in those places.

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That's why God created elbows.

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So long as the doors open out. And don't have knob-shaped doorknobs.
 

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Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :
 
But, alas and alack, a knob as PGiC.

Heaven help us.
 

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Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I Know This Is A Christian Website, but this sounds like a Good Idea (if only for letting off steam.....):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39090334



IJ

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Bloody politicians should have to live on benefits for a month and see how they go.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jane R:

A month isn't long enough. Six months. Even that isn't really long enough to give them a real taste of what people on benefits have to go through, because the politician will have lots of rich friends to scrounge meals off, all his/her work-related travel paid for, plenty of clothes and shoes to wear, insurance policies up to date, new or nearly new kitchen appliances...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jane R:
Ian Climacus:

quote:

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Bloody politicians should have to live on benefits for a month and see how they go.

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A month isn't long enough. Six months. Even that isn't really long enough to give them a real taste of what people on benefits have to go through, because the politician will have lots of rich friends to scrounge meals off, all his/her work-related travel paid for, plenty of clothes and shoes to wear, insurance policies up to date, new or nearly new kitchen appliances...

Bet they wouldn't be expected to pay the bedroom tax either.

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This is the basis of Iain Duncan Smith's claim to understand unemployment and poverty isn't it ?

He trots out the tales of a month or so on the dole, neglecting to mention that at the time he was living rent free in a house on his father in laws estate.

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quote:

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Don't forget "Show us your taxes".

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Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:

My recommendation to begin the impeachment proceedings as quickly as due process allows, was, I thought, a particularly helpful one. It's nice to be able to help a struggling leader when he asks.

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Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Somehow our e-mail address got on to a White House mailing list ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Riv:
Hated his remarks to the fallen Navy SEAL's widow. Sheesh.

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Originally posted by The Riv:
He can't not embellish, and it's still odd to hear. Maybe he'll get out of campaign mode soon.

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Oh, and the POST humor columnist discusses Lyin' Donald's speech last night. The money quote: "Yup, Donald Trump spoke to Congress, and he did not bite a live bat in half." Everyone in DC is delighted.

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Good call.

Meanwhile, this could/should have been your president:

Bernie Sanders takes the wrecking ball to DT's "speech" and says what Trump should have said.

...and he does it in 15 minutes. Eloquent. Measured. Coherent. Compelling.
 

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Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by molopata:

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Oh, and the POST humor columnist discusses Lyin' Donald's speech last night. The money quote: "Yup, Donald Trump spoke to Congress, and he did not bite a live bat in half." Everyone in DC is delighted.

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Good call.

Meanwhile, this could/should have been your president:

Bernie Sanders takes the wrecking ball to DT's "speech" and says what Trump should have said.

...and he does it in 15 minutes. Eloquent. Measured. Coherent. Compelling.

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Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump are in police custody at YVR airport this evening, after alleged ties to a fascist dictator surfaced during routine questioning.

The two sons of a former American billionaire, had flown to the pacific northwest for the unveiling of the new Trump tower in Downtown Vancouver.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Matt Black:
(c) North Korea

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quote:

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Originally posted by balaam:

quote:

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Originally posted by Matt Black:
(c) North Korea

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I wonder who Kim Il-trump will ban next.

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Originally posted by The Riv:
.... I just can't even.

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Apparently on teh intrawebz, reactions were neatly divided between those who have a direct connection to the armed forces and those who don't. I'm proud to say despite not being military or sentimental about the military, I was APPALLLED. He actually said, "They lost Ryan." I heard someone try to spin that as Drumpf saying the SEALS felt they lost one of their own, not Drumpf ducking responsibility. Even if that was what he meant (in between blaming Obama and the generals), there's no excuse for such poor phrasing in his most important speech to date.

And if The Riv and I agree, we must both be right.
 

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Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
T was wrong to say/do what he did. However, a small bit of good may have come of it: the soldier's wife looked like it was a much-needed catharsis, based on the changes in her face during the applause.
 

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Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is a good (and free) of the Russian shenanigans to date.

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OK!! Ben Carson....I can't! Immigrants ? In the bottom of SLAVE SHIPS??!! MUTHAFUKKA PLEASE!!!#dickheadedtom

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Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
This video link is a short piece from 08 Mar 2017 CBC "The National". It asks if trump believes his untruths and documents some of them. It also asks about the media not labelling untruths.

I was greatly struck with the discussion of trumpy's speech to the USA Congress which was characterised as positive, "a game changer", "presidential" and other such silliness. The National focusses on several of these, the one I recall is that trump said there were 94 million Americans unemployed, which is sort of true, but only if you include retired people, full time students and several groups which have no intent to work at all. If only those who are truely unemployed and looking for work are included, the number is 9.5 million.

They also played video, with dates, of trumpy sometimes say "don't know Putin, never talked to him", which are interspersed with him saying "I have a relationship with Putin". What is true one day is false the next.

Can anyone tell us how it is that this man doesn't get completely skewered for his falsehoods? I just don't get it.

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Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Then the problem is why enough Americans don't think the truth is an issue. Not being an American and not being immersed in the culture, it boggles.

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Any other suggestions are welcome.

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I can tell you that Americans are fully aware, about 60 percent of the population at least, and we are trying to do something about it. We cannot however just throw the rascal out. Not yet.

Since November I myself have:
knitted a dozen pussyhats, will knit more
called at the offices of both my Senator and congressman to express my concerns
mailed, emailed and phoned representatives
joined both Planned Parenthood and the ACLU
joined action groups on line
marched in Washington DC on January 21
plan to march on April 15 and April 22
looked into running for office (not on, in my navy-blue district)
am actually running for vestry (next best thing)

Any other suggestions are welcome.

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
The new Health Care Bill has gotten Congressional Budget OFfice analysis and it's pretty horrible. The one consolation is that it takes health care coverage away most heavily from parts of the population who voted for Trump.

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
It does many bad things. But the Trump fans complaining that it's Obama's fault is going to stop when they die without medical coverage.

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If they're dead, they won't be in a position to complain about anything, surely?
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I am the only one who felt very excited when faced with the headline “Trump’s tax return leaked” and was then cruelly disappointed after clicking through to the actual article?

I have some sympathy for the view that he leaked it himself. It’s the recent ones someone needs to leak. Taken that he is quite possibly the most shameless human being on the planet, what could possibly be so embarrassing that even he doesn’t want anyone to see them?
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I would bet anything that it is not merely embarrassing. Why would the PussyGrabber care about mere embarrassment? He has no shame anyway; he has done far worse things and you can view it on videotape. I cannot imagine what would shame him, and I have a good imagination.
No. There is criminal evidence in there, probably fraud or tax evasion. He -cannot- let those returns out. For our part we may hope that this is the tiny rift in the lute that will, by and by, make the blatting and sputtering mute.
 

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Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
Has anyone checked his microwave? Perhaps they can find his more recent returns there.

Better yet, maybe he has one of these spying on him.


 

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Posted by romanlion (# 10325) on :
 
So let me see if I understand this correctly...

Madbrows big scoop was that Trump paid most of 40 million dollars in federal income tax in a single year?

And as cover for their idiocy the suggestion is floated that Trump himself leaked the returns? A tacit admission that they may have been completely trolled?

That is a rare level of genius right there...
 

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Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :
 
It would appear that the tax return that has been unearthed is the only one in recent years that he has paid anything at all - as well as being the one with the largest income. That second part is probably what embarrasses Trump, and the real reason why he's been so coy with his returns.
 

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Hah! He's just a millionaire. Peasant.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by RooK:
It would appear that the tax return that has been unearthed is the only one in recent years that he has paid anything at all - as well as being the one with the largest income. That second part is probably what embarrasses Trump, and the real reason why he's been so coy with his returns.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JonahMan:

quote:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
It does many bad things. But the Trump fans complaining that it's Obama's fault is going to stop when they die without medical coverage.

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If they're dead, they won't be in a position to complain about anything, surely?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I wonder if they aren't just made-up sheets to sucker in stupid reporters.

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quote:

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:
But what was interesting in the program was the argument Maddow made for why it was important to see those more recent returns. . . . I found, as always, her investigative reporting and argumentation quite sound.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:

quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I wonder if they aren't just made-up sheets to sucker in stupid reporters.

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quote:

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:
But what was interesting in the program was the argument Maddow made for why it was important to see those more recent returns. . . . I found, as always, her investigative reporting and argumentation quite sound.

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Rachel Maddow is probably the most intelligent and thoughtful broacast magazine moderator on cable today. Her stories always seem to be carefully researched, fact-checked and written. She is far from being a "stupid reporter" who can be "suckered in."

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I had been reading about things. I read in – I think it was January 20th, a New York Times article where they were talking about wiretapping. There was an article, I think they used that exact term. I read other things. I watched your friend Bret Baier the day previous, where he was talking about certain, very complex sets of things happening, and wiretapping. I said “Wait a minute, there’s a lot of wiretapping being talked about.” I have been seeing a lot of things.

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quote:

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James Bond: Are these pictures live?

M: Unlike the American government, we prefer not to get our bad news from CNN.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Penny S:
And I followed a link from there to find that some guy called Mulvaney reckons it's compassionate to cut funding for Meals on Wheels.

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