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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: May I please rip off your gonads?
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
[Host edit - the first article is an extremely difficult read, with graphic recounting of child abuse. If that's not something you want to read, or read at work, you've all been warned. DT]
I have no words to express my anger at snivelling fucktards who have shattered lives, shattered the remnant of gospel credibility of the church I once loved, made us and worse our Christ the spittoon of human consciousness.
Add to that the in depth report and no depths of hell suffice. In OZ we all knew it was coming but seeing the callousness of the perpetrators and the duplicity of their cover-all-up-at-all-costs colleagues - not to mention the sheer fucking dumbness of one or two who eventually saw the light (see the latter link, on pages 11-12, in which the man who later becomes Primate of Australia does not altogether object, as a young man, to noting that one of his friends is being taken off to bed by a rapist) and ...
... and what? I have no words. I feel sick, depressed, angry, vengeful ... and impotent. I missed the lure of some of these predators by a whisker. Others were far less fortunate.
I am angry beyond words. May their gonads be shoved so far up their sphincters that their cingulate and orbitofrontal cortexes implode in a cesspit of faecal plasma. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
[ 17. May 2017, 11:15: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Hard to read. Terrible abuse, terrible that people knew but did nothing.
Of course, if you're a victim of abuse, you might not want to read these things - but those of us who can, should.
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arse
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Errr... yeah, ok - you didn't know. But then you clearly did know because you sent the abuser away to a retreat to think about it.
What is wrong with you people?
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arse
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
.
words fail. Worse than the abuse is the knowing sending of an (even if at that stage only alleged) abuser to deliver the eulogy at the funeral of the mother of the reported victim. FFS.
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arse
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Well, that was a tough read. I'd like to say nothing surprises me any more, but...
I'm also going to tack on a reader advisory to Zappa's OP. I think that wise.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Just appalling, and from people such as Ian Shevill whom we - outside the diocese - had respected. The damage done to these boys is immeasurable.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
To add to the cognitive dissonance and the sheer evil of the cynical perpetrators, it is a table full of these. ... to so trivialize the living hell of the victims is satanic to the max (them, not you)
Oh right. That just adds to the whole banality of evil of the episode.
Clearly these people thought they could do this stuff and nobody was ever going to be able to stop them. How awful.
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arse
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Just appalling, and from people such as Ian Shevill whom we - outside the diocese - had respected. The damage done to these boys is immeasurable.
I read that link in total this morning and was sickened and revolted and anything else like that. I did not want to read it , not even a small amount but kept telling myself that there are those who live everyday with that having been done to them. The least I could do was read through the report.
Yes Shevill had respect by those who had no knowledge of it. And the on going repercussions continue with the resignation of the last bishop who could no longer cope withe the results of his cleaning up the diocese.
[ 16. May 2017, 08:33: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
The commission report is pretty sickening; a tissue of bishops "misremembering" if people had told them about abuse, "telling off" of abusers (I mean, wtf?), even promoting the abusers.
In the 1990s.
Really. Someone gives you reason to believe that a priest has been having sex with an underage boy and you just give him a slap and tell him not to do it again?
Seriously: what the actual? What planet were you living on?
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arse
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Words fail. Zappa's suggestion for them seems apt.
I was up near Newcastle when the Royal Commission was in session [? correct term?] up there last year and would see a parade of men, often broken, giving testimony on the news each night. So terribly sad for them -- and for those who killed themselves due to these horrific actions.
As multipara often said here, "Jesus wept".
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Missed the Hostly warning - only read the headlines.
![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
There aren't enough millstones.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
I made the mistake of opening this link in a public place. Had to hold back tears. This is awful. I am so angry at these child rapists, and the fact that those like Peter Rushton and Hatley Gray were never punished for their horrific crimes. It is a cliche, but I have just no words. So fucking heartbreaking.
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
At least George Parker's grey head did not go down to the grave in peace.
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
Missed the Hostly warning - only read the headlines.
There aren't enough millstones.
Huia
Apologies. I've now moved the host edit to the start of the OP, not the end. Hopefully people will catch it.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Am not going to check out the links, but I get the drift.
A couple of things that might useful for both victims/survivors and those who want to help them:
--The book "Survivor Prayers", by Rev. Catherine Foote, regarding survivors of childhood sexual abuse. About pain; being angry with God; coping; and reframing your relationship with God--IF that's something you want to do. Also has a section on abuse by clergy. CF is a survivor herself, and a cool lady. I met her, a long time ago.
--Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests They've been a leader in dealing with clergy abuse in the US. I don't know if they have branches in other countries; but they could probably point you toward some. And there's all sorts of info on their site.
--To abusers: Please get help--right away! You're not responsible for being sick, *but* you are responsible for getting help. Even if the people around you aren't taking your illness seriously.
--To people who are closing their eyes; knowingly turning away; or (especially) clergy and administrators who enable, cover up, move abusers around, refuse to call the police, and tell kids and others to keep quiet:
Get your heads out of your asses, and get your heads and hearts on straight! The abusers are sick. What's your excuse?
--To the enabling clergy and administrators: Millstone. Neck. Repent. Tell the truth. Report the truth to the police and child welfare. Now. No excuses.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
to so trivialize the living hell of the victims is satanic to the max (them, not you)
I believe that in a real and true sense, such people worshipped Molech.
They 'put their sons and daughters to the flame', literally engaging in child sacrifice to protect themselves and the power they served.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
I could only manage to read s short way, nausea, rage a
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
--To abusers: Please get help--right away! You're not responsible for being sick, *but* you are responsible for getting help. Even if the people around you aren't taking your illness seriously.
The abusers here deserve every medieval torture ever devised or imagined. They deserve no help, no rehabilitation, only pain, more pain with respites long enough they do not become inured to the pain.
quote:
--To people who are closing their eyes; knowingly turning away; or (especially) clergy and administrators who enable, cover up, move abusers around, refuse to call the police, and tell kids and others to keep quiet:
They deserve the same.
Disagree if you wish, I'm not coming back to this thread. Shouldn't have read the fucking links Off to a dark corner for a while
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
About the only good thing about this story is that most of the abusers are dead and most of the senior clergy involved are apparently senile.
I still can't quite get over how messed up the whole thing was - not just that people were doing this stuff, but that the church structure seemed to reward them for doing it.
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arse
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I didn't mean to read the links, but I have, the first one.
Words fail.
But I have a query in my mind. How is it that these creatures found each other, back in the days before the internet? Were they all the result of initiation by preceding predators, and formed gangs that way?
And how can it be stopped from happening in the future?
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
What an awful bloody mess, sadly not unique to Oz.
I know this is Hell, but for the survivors.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
I haven't read the links. From what others are saying it may well remove the last remaining shred of commitment I have for the institution that is the church.
Hypocrisy doesn't even get anywhere near close where this kind of abomination is concerned.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I still can't quite get over how messed up the whole thing was - not just that people were doing this stuff, but that the church structure seemed to reward them for doing it.
And the 'pillars of the community' who are actively advocating for the abusers to this day.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Let us never suggest that such deliberate evil acts by persons who planned them, carried them out, covered them, manipulated others, and all the rest, are a result of any form of mental health or other disorder.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
I haven't read the links. From what others are saying it may well remove the last remaining shred of commitment I have for the institution that is the church.
Hypocrisy doesn't even get anywhere near close where this kind of abomination is concerned.
Exactly. And for that I feel so fucking sad.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
But I have a query in my mind. How is it that these creatures found each other, back in the days before the internet? Were they all the result of initiation by preceding predators, and formed gangs that way?
Interesting questions... I wonder that too... How do you know who to go up to and say, "Are you like me?"
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And how can it be stopped from happening in the future?
What makes me is it probably can't. Whenever you have sick indviduals with power complexes there is a risk the innocent suffer. I suppose only processes can be put in place to try and stop it as well as making kids informed of proper an improper behaviour [perhaps well before we might think of them as sexual beings]. But I'd love to be proven wrong.
[ 16. May 2017, 22:17: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
Well said, Golden Key, as so often in the past. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Such action is the only hope.
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Thanks, DK. That's all I can see to fix it.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
lilBuddha (just in case you glance at the thread)--
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I could only manage to read s short way, nausea, rage a
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
--To abusers: Please get help--right away! You're not responsible for being sick, *but* you are responsible for getting help. Even if the people around you aren't taking your illness seriously.
The abusers here deserve every medieval torture ever devised or imagined. They deserve no help, no rehabilitation, only pain, more pain with respites long enough they do not become inured to the pain.
quote:
--To people who are closing their eyes; knowingly turning away; or (especially) clergy and administrators who enable, cover up, move abusers around, refuse to call the police, and tell kids and others to keep quiet:
They deserve the same.
Disagree if you wish, I'm not coming back to this thread. Shouldn't have read the fucking links Off to a dark corner for a while
Just to be clear:
I have similar rage. I'm not saying that anybody should forgive anyone. In fact, *trying* to forgive can be damaging, unless the person who was hurt deeply feels that they've got to find some way to let go, a little bit, for *their own* good. NOT that they have to make nice with the offender. And DEFINITELY NOT that the person hurt puts themself and/or their kids in danger.
OTOH, IME and observation, rage can be toxic if that's basically where you (gen.) live and imagine for long periods of time. It can drown you.
It's taken me many years and lots of hard work to get to where I am now. **For me** (not saying anyone else should do it), it's involved therapy; spiritual exploration; facing some really nasty theology about God, and why things happen, and who's responsible, and who gets punished, and would eternal punishment make anything better; agreeing with universalism (everyone saved and healed and Home); a lot of reading, and thinking, and making mistakes, and trying to figure things out; and hashing out how (for me) it can make some sense.
It might be called "GK's Unified Field Theory"; or "GK's Answer To Life, The Universe, And Everything", abbreviated as "GK's 42". (Not being flip about abuse; but just a little bit flip about my self and process. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif) )
IME, "forgiveness" is most likely to happen after a lot of work to get some perspective on the offender; feeling a tiny bit freer, because of that; and taking a new, tiny step in my life--because the person isn't holding me back as much.
IME and AIUI, people can absolutely be monsters in other people's lives--but they are still human. (I still struggle with that.) So if everyone is to be saved and made whole, that includes monster-humans, too.
Plus some sexual abusers can and do get well, with help. Others can, with help, get a little bit better. There isn't yet a treatment that will fix everyone. But it needs to be found.
If I believe in anything, in the sense of choosing where to stand, it's that everyone and everything has to ultimately be healed, and safe, and well, and Home.
Not in a "There, there, what you did doesn't matter" sense. But hard work and healing.
FWIW. YMMV.
[ 17. May 2017, 09:41: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Well, that was a tough read. I'd like to say nothing surprises me any more, but...
I'm also going to tack on a reader advisory to Zappa's OP. I think that wise.
Took the liberty of making the reader advisory more eye catching.
seems inadequate, but it's the best I have.
Tubbs
[ 17. May 2017, 11:21: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
But I have a query in my mind. How is it that these creatures found each other, back in the days before the internet?
I assume in a time when such things weren't taken seriously (on which note see the articles), they would hint at such things until they found someone else who responded accordingly.
quote:
Were they all the result of initiation by preceding predators, and formed gangs that way?
I'd be careful with this line of reasoning; I believe the current thinking is that the idea that 'the abused then go on to become abusers' is marginal at best as a cause.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I would be careful - but there was evidence that some of the perpetrators had been abused themselves, so I was using what was in the published material. I would never go in the other direction. And it would be one way of forming a group. Dropping hints would have to be very carefully done, though. And have the expectation of a response at times.
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Were they all the result of initiation by preceding predators, and formed gangs that way?
I'd be careful with this line of reasoning; I believe the current thinking is that the idea that 'the abused then go on to become abusers' is marginal at best as a cause.
What can't, in any way be excused, is that for decades, if not centuries, the pleas of the young have been dismissed by those in authority. Even when they know that abuse has taken place, they do no than send them on holiday or move them on.
Then again, is it possible that "covering up" has become so much part of the fabric of churches? If it has, then churches have probably served whatever purpose they ever had.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Dropping hints would have to be very carefully done, though. And have the expectation of a response at times.
I was going on the article - where it appeared that those prominent in the community who supported the priests minimized the impacts by adopting euphemistic descriptions, which I assumed could also function as a kind of hint you dropped.
Besides, in an era where such things were excused as 'locker room talk' they presumably weren't that careful.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Then again, is it possible that "covering up" has become so much part of the fabric of churches? If it has, then churches have probably served whatever purpose they ever had.
I suspect the church became a 'Power' (in the Walter Wink sense) that they served above all things - literally going so far as to sacrifice the lives of other human beings in order to preserve it and the particular community for which it was foundational.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
I suspect the church became a 'Power' (in the Walter Wink sense) that they served above all things - literally going so far as to sacrifice the lives of other human beings in order to preserve it and the particular community for which it was foundational.
I'm not sure the church so much became a power as was so enameled with those with power within the structure that they were more-or-less untouchable and unaccountable.
I find it very hard to believe that this stuff was going on in public and that everyone knew about it. I could be wrong, but it reads to me that there were men in powerful positions who everyone else had to kowtow to, and beneath them a bunch of abusers who (for whatever reason) had their ear and their protection. And it wasn't just within the church either, these men were supported by other powerful people at the edge or outside the church.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I find it very hard to believe that this stuff was going on in public and that everyone knew about it.
I don't think 'everybody' knew about it in the sense you mean, but certainly a lot of people did, look at the examples in that article; one of the people in power effectively operated as a lawyer to the church and was in the position to know the scale of the problem, who then down-played it via euphemisms, some of the other choir-boys knew, presumably more parents would have raised concerns with their priests and so on.
The same pattern is seen elsewhere; there was a case in America where it was clear that some parents (specifically mothers because of the context in which the allegations eventually came out) in the church concerned knew something was off and went out of their way to keep their children out of harms way, while exercising less than due diligence over children who were perhaps more vulnerable.
In each case, it was known by the PTB, it was an open secret among certain circles in the church concerned, who were either kept cowed by the examples of other people who had attempted to report such things and been destroyed, or were keeping silent for complex reasons of their own. In some cases it it seemed to amount to almost wilful ignorance.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
When I first moved to Melbourne, as a very innocent young man in 1982, I heard rumours that there were paedophile networks operating in the churches and police. I simply couldn't believe it - priests were caring and compassionate human beings, and the police where tough individuals not given to hurting children. And so my myopia stayed for years, many years, until I interviewed a victim/survivor of abuse a decade and a half later. But even that I saw as an exception to the rule (and there were some peculiarities about the case, not least that it was heterosexual hebephilia, rather than homosexual paedo/hebephilia), until the screams grew louder, and the Royal Commissions were called ... ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
And there is no end to the tendrils of this. How safe those in power must have felt when the rings of the abusers included police, the judiciary, the teachers and the priests. How much they must have enjoyed poor parents working their tails off to afford private education in the mistaken belief it would better the lives of their children - the very children that were preyed upon mercilessly by these sadistic bastards.
Now stories are coming out about similar circles of abuse and sextortion within government circles. May all things hidden be revealed. It's a great prayer. And a dangerous one. Because then the evil exposed and the victims of it need to be appropriately dealt with. I hope the world is changed because of it.
Sadly it makes many women immediately suspicious of ANY male who loves working with kids. Sick, sad world.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
I may have dismissed a thread but what is the Australian reaction to the charges against Cardinal Pell? I haven't seen much discussion but it seems to have moved past the point where outraged denial is sufficient defense.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
The charges against Pell are awful. My hope in that regard is that he returns to face them. Down under, there is a name for the practice of claiming to be too ill to return home and face the music - Christopher Skasing it, named for the corrupt tycoon eho made a fortune in the eighties and then buggered off to Majorca, claiming his illness made it impossible to risk air travel home. His infamy lived in legend, and the idea that some kind of covert operation should be organised to get him back even spawned a film.
Pell has already tried that defence, so he has form.
Returning to the horrific story this thread is about, it seems now that the Diocese of Perth is to be held liable for Archbishop Roger Herft's very substantial legal fees. Which seems a further injustice, given this very sad and awful story took place in another Diocese entirely.
[ 04. July 2017, 03:30: Message edited by: Dark Knight ]
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
from the linked story; quote:
Cardinal Pell will return to Australia, as soon as possible, to clear his name following advice and approval by his doctors who will also advise on his travel arrangements,” the statement said, adding, “He said he is looking forward to his day in court and will defend the charges vigorously.
I suspect there's no comfortable place in Rome for him now.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re Cardinal Pell:
--Today, NPR interviewed Fr. Thomas Doyle:
"Cardinal To Defend Himself Against Sexual Abuse Charges In Australia" (NPR--audio and transcript; both short)
Fr. Doyle is an expert witness on abuse, and writes for National Catholic Reporter.
--Yesterday, NPR interviewed survivor and activist Marie Collins, who just quit the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors. Pell was one of the topics.
"In Fighting Abuse By Members Of Catholic Church Clergy, Victim Sees Resistance To Change" (NPR--audio and transcript; both short).
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
from the linked story; quote:
Cardinal Pell will return to Australia, as soon as possible, to clear his name following advice and approval by his doctors who will also advise on his travel arrangements,” the statement said, adding, “He said he is looking forward to his day in court and will defend the charges vigorously.
I suspect there's no comfortable place in Rome for him now.
Yes, thank you, I know what he said. It will make it seem that much more sincere if he then cannot travel on doctor's orders. Because he wanted to so very much ...
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I may have dismissed a thread but what is the Australian reaction to the charges against Cardinal Pell? I haven't seen much discussion but it seems to have moved past the point where outraged denial is sufficient defense.
Some news sites have him hung, drawn and quartered already. Most people I've spoken to are saddened that it's reached this stage, but have reserved judgment.
Like everyone else, I have no idea what the evidence is like nor what the charges are. My memory is that there were civil proceedings against him 15 or so years ago, in which the Plaintiff sought damages for sexual assault. They were dismissed as Pell had an ironclad alibi.
I am not sure of criminal procedures in Victoria, where he is charged. In NSW, he could make an application to be tried by a judge alone, ie without a jury.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
This thread is one of the reasons I have given up on the Catholic Church. I grew tired of opening the news every morning, dreading that I would once again have to defend the indefensible. That I would have to put up with a Pope who is all talk and no action who, more and more, is sinking into the clutches of a Vatican which lives in an alternate world. Not to mention a local diocese ridden with the same issues in miniature, sunk in bigotry and fear of what they do not understand, both the religious and the laity.
I was deeply hurt when I made that decision, but as time goes on, it feels like a weight lifted off my shoulders.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Sorry to hear it, Uncle Pete, but at least the weight, as you say, has been somewhat lifted. I don't suppose you're the only erstwhile RC who feels the same.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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