|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Shit Britain
|
fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
|
Posted
I posted this link on the 'Shake It All About' Brexit thread in Purg. When I read it at first, I was lost for words. Now that I think I can find words, I guess this is the best place for them.
It's all very well to say that 'Oh, it's only a thinking paper' etc, but even the idea of a government department thinking it causes me heartburn. This is an invisible yellow star, a firm that wont hire blacks, a way of not having to deal with the dirty foreigner who can't speak english in an accent I recognise, an institutionally backed and government approved xenophobia enshrined in law through the means of taxation law. It is the overthrowing of equality laws in relation to employment and I daren't but think how this could so easily be twisted to bring back sectarian workplaces in Northern Ireland.
Time and again the pro-Brexit brigade keep insisting that Brexit was never about race and nationality; it was never about xenophobia and racism. My ass it wasn't. Time and again, leaked proposals and policy papers expose it for what it really is. Who sat around a table and thought it was a great idea to have a policy that would entrench xenophobia and actually financially reward it? Total and utter fuckwits, that's who. Trump has nothing on this. My God; it makes him look almost sensible. It was Great Britain and it moved to Little Britain, but now it is most certainly and unavoidably, Shit Britain.
--------------------
'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
|
Posted
I was really hoping this was about lack of provision of public lavatories.
--------------------
I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
It actually puts racism at the heart of government policy. And there are Brexit people who will say that they want this, even if it fucks up the economy, which it will, and even if various companies are protesting about it, which they are. I'm not sure how we got to this madness, I suppose racism has been a kind of subterranean political force, but now it's in the heart of Downing St.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
It's really not a difficult equation to calculate.
The more prosperous and successful a country/region is, the more people will move towards it. The corollary is that the only way to make a country/region less attractive is to make it a shit place to live and work.
And that seems to be now government policy, forgetting that some of us are, through family and economic ties, stuck here. If they make it shit for non-Brits, they make it shit for Brits too.
Terrific.
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
It's not even logical. Fallon says that the British public voted to leave the EU. OK, but that is not the same thing as stopping freedom of movement, or restricting foreigners coming here to work.
What is bizarre is that currently, unemployment is very low, yet immigration is supposed to take away jobs? Eh? Is this illiterate, or is my name Nelly the Nun?
Well, it is illiterate in economic terms, but the govt has to be seen to be fulfilling its quota of racist nonsense.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
What is worrying is that it might be a vote winner.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Whilst it is a little more blatant than expected, some of us are less surprised than others.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
What is worrying is that it might be a vote winner.
which is why Labour is very soft peddling comment on this - AIUI from Labour activist friends in the northwest there's a concern that *their* loonies might kick off if they come out opposing it too much.
I might join the Greens. Being a Scrutonite I agree with them on pretty well every word of their manifesto except Trident, the monarchy and foxhunting. Other than that, sign me up.
[ 07. September 2017, 13:52: Message edited by: betjemaniac ]
--------------------
And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
|
Posted
As time goes by, I realise that I feel less and less attached to the country I was born and grew up in. Brexit was kind an ugly paradigm shift for me – it was the first time I sincerely felt that my country was a bit rubbish. Subsequent events have been reinforcing that feeling.
Roll on French nationality. (I haven’t applied yet, but only because I’m waiting until I become eligible on grounds of marriage – less paperwork.) Not that the land of the frog is perfect either, but at the minute I am finding it much less embarrassing than Blighty.
This is not an opinion I ever expected to hear myself expressing.
--------------------
Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
What is bizarre is that currently, unemployment is very low
Yes, it's almost halved since the Tories took over in 2010, and is lower now than it was before the credit crunch and associated recession. In fact, it's the lowest it's ever been in my entire lifetime.
Perhaps the Tories deserve some credit for that?
--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
|
Posted
My brother, sister, and I are all entitled to citizenship of the Irish Republic (our maternal grandfather was a Dubliner).
We really must get the paperwork sorted, though there are important gaps in the information needed by the R of I.... ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Meanwhile, my sister, who has lived in France for over 30 years, is applying for French citizenship as well. As la vie en rouge says, Frogland is not perfect, but Ukland is getting embarrassing.
Shamrockland is not perfect, either, but at least it's staying part of Europe, rather than floating off, and isolating the Continent.
IJ
--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
The UK is a bloody awful country now. I can't understand why anyone who had any reasonable alternative would want to live here. Unfortunately I don't think I've much chance of a job in e.g. France, Germany, the Netherlands or Denmark but if I had I'd do all I could to take it. Even actually found myself the other day saying 'those who are lucky enough to be Belgian'- which I never thought I would!
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
|
Posted
Yes, the Tories certainly do deserve some credit for continuing to allow zero-hours contracts, cutting back on benefits for working families (such that the number of people relying on food banks is higher than it has ever been) and making it so difficult to claim benefits that many people just don't bother (and therefore never show up on the unemployment figures). Well done, folks.
What I don't understand is why they want to stop the flow of unskilled labour if it's keeping the minimum wage down. Has somebody at the Conservative Party HQ noticed that it doesn't?
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
I might join the Greens. Being a Scrutonite I agree with them on pretty well every word of their manifesto except Trident, the monarchy and foxhunting. Other than that, sign me up.
Yes, in my Green Party days I used to explain my membership by saying that as there wasn't, for some reason, a specifically high church monarchist conservative agrarian party in the UK, the Greens were the next best thing. Don't mind the foxhunting thing and think Trident replacement is sucking money and capacity from the rest of the defence budget, so if they'd only get behind the monarchy and the House of Lords, and drop the votes at 16 rubbish i might be tempted back.
[ 07. September 2017, 16:39: Message edited by: Albertus ]
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
What is bizarre is that currently, unemployment is very low
Yes, it's almost halved since the Tories took over in 2010, and is lower now than it was before the credit crunch and associated recession. In fact, it's the lowest it's ever been in my entire lifetime.
Who is to say we are not headed for full employment?
If, in the future, there should be a greater number of jobs than we have people willing or trained to do them, then hire suitable applicants from other countries. No more sink estates riddled with social problems and full of folks stranded on the scrap heap of unemployability, (the very places where much of the Brexit vote came from).
And just disturb the echo here, I for one am happy to live in Country whereby anyone dissatisfied with the outcome of a democratically conducted, one person one vote, Referendum is free to leave it at any time.
--------------------
Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
I for one am happy to live in Country whereby anyone dissatisfied with the outcome of a democratically conducted, one person one vote, Referendum is free to leave it at any time.
If only there were 27 other countries we could move to without needing to meet citizenship or employment restrictions.
Oh, wait... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
What is worrying is that it might be a vote winner.
which is why Labour is very soft peddling comment on this - AIUI from Labour activist friends in the northwest there's a concern that *their* loonies might kick off if they come out opposing it too much.
I might join the Greens. Being a Scrutonite I agree with them on pretty well every word of their manifesto except Trident, the monarchy and foxhunting. Other than that, sign me up.
I am at a loss to understand why anyone would object to a rejection of a threat to commit genocide, unelected and unaccountable power, and ripping animals apart for fun. These policies are the reason I'd be a green if it wasn't that our FPTP system made it a waste of a vote.
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
The UK is a bloody awful country now. I can't understand why anyone who had any reasonable alternative would want to live here.
Our beer
Our countryside
Our climate
Three reasons I don't think I could live anywhere else
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
The thing is, I love my country. I want to stay here, because I think it is the best coutnry in the world. Looking at it long-term.
But at the moment, the government and "leadership" of this country is a shitpile. Incompetant, self-serving, lying and stupid. And many other things.
But I want ot "Take my country back" from the crooks, and return it to being a loving, accepting tolerant place. Not the xenophobic fuck-fest we are in current.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
The UK is a bloody awful country now. I can't understand why anyone who had any reasonable alternative would want to live here.
Our beer
Our countryside
Our climate
Three reasons I don't think I could live anywhere else
Beer I grant you.
Countryside maybe.
Anyone who lives in Derbyshire and says the climate keeps them here is just weird.
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
The UK is a bloody awful country now.
I can't say I've noticed any significant change, to be honest. Certainly not enough to say that the country has become bloody awful in any way it wasn't before.
--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
Apart from Brex-shit, it's the same country. We're just reverting to older forms of shittiness. We'll have workhouses soon enough, and healthcare and decent education limited to those who deserve it (ie: have the money to pay for it). Yay for the people who voted to flush us all down the toilet.
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
|
Posted
Significant recent changes - almost daily suicides on London Transport¹, across the system, far more people sleeping on the streets² and people begging* on the tube a daily occurrence ³.
¹ My commute home is affected about once every couple of weeks by "a person on the track", and I travel only a limited section of the system in a short window of time, I hear far more announcements about disruptions on other lines and other times on the lines.
² I can't remember the streets being this thick with rough sleepers for many years nor can never remember so many women sleeping rough and I have lived in London on and off for forty years
³ There was a very well spoken man tonight dressed in what had been a smart suit and coat before they'd been slept in for a while tonight.
*No I don't give to beggars on the tube, but I try to volunteer for Crisis
--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
|
Posted
I don't think this country is shit at all.
Shit things happen.
But that doesn't make the country itself shit.
It's far from shit.
Some people have a shitty time here though.
Try and make a difference. Get involved. Don't just on your arses and whinge about things in Hell.
I'm still a Lib Dem and still pro-EU and still up for building Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land alongside like-minded folk among Labour and the Greens and even moderate Tories - those that still have hearts ...
They do exist. I meet them locally.
All is not lost. All is not shit.
Resist the shit. Unite. Do something.
End of sermon.
--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
The UK is a bloody awful country now. I can't understand why anyone who had any reasonable alternative would want to live here.
And I think that's why many people voted for Brexit. They were unhappy with the current level of 'shittiness. And many of them wouldn't be clever, young, rich or brave enough to go and live somewhere else. (Although, of course, everywhere is 'shit' for someone....)
I don't think the govt will really have the energy or inclination to encourage more British people to take on low-paid jobs. It won't provide more money for training people to fill the many jobs at various levels where there's a currently a shortage.
Since I don't expect any great change of culture ahead the govt will just have to find other means to get people from overseas to fill these positions. Special work permits, etc. Life will go on. But otherwise, the issues that make many people in our society feel anxious, depressed or disconnected will still be there.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
|
Posted
This starting to make sense. The referendum vote was 37% of the electorate voting 'yes' (I know it was 52% of the votes cast), and in no way was that a mandate for a government with any conscience or sense of statesmanship. However, it was all that a bunch of right wing rodents needed to support their revolting agenda, and here we are.
--------------------
Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
|
Posted
By that logic it's better not to vote, because no one can then tell you that your vote was irrelevant, or misused.
I've always enjoyed voting, but perhaps it is pretty well pointless. You end up with 'Shit Britain' regardless!
[ 08. September 2017, 00:56: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
The UK is a bloody awful country now. I can't understand why anyone who had any reasonable alternative would want to live here.
Our beer
Our countryside
Our climate
Three reasons I don't think I could live anywhere else
Beer I grant you.
Countryside maybe.
Anyone who lives in Derbyshire and says the climate keeps them here is just weird.
Maybe? maybe? Have you ever been to the Lake District man? It's where God takes his holidays. As regards climate, I can't recall the last time the weather tried to drown me, freeze me to death, cook me alive or blow my house down. Seems to have the edge on most of the rest of the world there.
And I didn't even get onto cheese and Sausages, wot we also do better than everyone else.
[ 08. September 2017, 05:32: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
A good idea, let's not get onto cheese.
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
The two thirds we import isn't the stuff I'd miss.
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Apart from Brex-shit, it's the same country. We're just reverting to older forms of shittiness. We'll have workhouses soon enough, and healthcare and decent education limited to those who deserve it (ie: have the money to pay for it). Yay for the people who voted to flush us all down the toilet.
Exactly. Poxy country with no sense left of the proper public sphere or collective endeavour, poisoned by liberalisms of left and right. Wales, where I live, is a bit better than England, being still social democratic insofar as it's allowed to be.
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
|
Posted
If we're heading towards a Greek-style economic collapse (which I'm not hoping for, but which seems like a distinct possibility) and a hard turn towards fascism, I'm not leaving.
We can look at all this shit and think that this is a reason for leaving. Or we can look at it and think that this is what we were born for.
That said, I suspect the most likely scenario is one where there is a gradual slide into mediocrity whereby the poorer get poorer and society gets more divided and it becomes increasingly difficult to do much about it - whilst the country as a whole someone manages to muddle through the whole Brexit mess.
--------------------
arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Exactly. Poxy country with no sense left of the proper public sphere or collective endeavour, poisoned by liberalisms of left and right. Wales, where I live, is a bit better than England, being still social democratic insofar as it's allowed to be.
Lead, follow or fuck off out of it then.
I'm tired of people complaining, it's a lifestyle here in the valleys and very few actually bother to do anything about anything because they're too busy moaning about how everything was better when the landscape was covered with mines and ironworks (and people often died before they were 50).
--------------------
arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
The UK is a bloody awful country now.
I can't say I've noticed any significant change, to be honest. Certainly not enough to say that the country has become bloody awful in any way it wasn't before.
I remember the seventies and the eighties. Really, it was much the same then except that many more people were in regular, skilled and semi-skilled jobs. That work has gone, replaced by low-paid jobs many of which have no security and some of which are seasonal.
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
|
Posted
Frankly, I'm less worried by the neo-Nazi's they found in the armed forces and more worried about the ones in the Houses of Parliament and the Home Office who are making policy.
Every time I speak to anyone who came to the UK in good faith, I just want to apologise ... This is totally shameful
Tubbs
--------------------
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
The uncertainty bugs me. There is talk that the Ultras want heavy deregulation, low taxes, reduced social services, and so on.
I wonder if we will get to vote on this, or will it be introduced via Henry VIII type diktat?
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Exactly. Poxy country with no sense left of the proper public sphere or collective endeavour, poisoned by liberalisms of left and right. Wales, where I live, is a bit better than England, being still social democratic insofar as it's allowed to be.
Sounds a lot like your definition of "Shit Britain" boils down to "not enough people agree with my political opinions".
--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Exactly. Poxy country with no sense left of the proper public sphere or collective endeavour, poisoned by liberalisms of left and right. Wales, where I live, is a bit better than England, being still social democratic insofar as it's allowed to be.
Sounds a lot like your definition of "Shit Britain" boils down to "not enough people agree with my political opinions".
I think it's more a case of "too many people are dicks".
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Sounds a lot like your definition of "Shit Britain" boils down to "not enough people agree with my political opinions".
I think it's more a case of "too many people are dicks".
Either way, it's not like it's something that's changed recently.
--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I think it's more a case of "too many people are dicks".
Either way, it's not like it's something that's changed recently.
That's where we disagree. I (and plenty of other people) think it has. More overt racism, more insularity, more false patriotism, more rentism and exploitation.
The dicks, once in retreat, are now much more confident about being dicks in public. And that's what makes Britain a shittier place to be.
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
I think it has been going on for a long time. There are all sorts of elements to it, including the pillaging of the state, and corruption of all the hard work on effective and honest government done over the last 160 years, by both Labour and Consrevative governments in the name of marketisation and new managerialism.
But above all, what shocked me about the whole Brexit thing, though perhaps I should have seen it already, was the way that it exposed the almost (with a few honourable exceptions) complete breakdown of confidence and backbone and leadership among our political class- the cheap opportunism of the referendum in the first place, and the enormous constitutional damage done by the widespread acceptance by politicians of most parties that that was that, the voice of the people had spoken, and Parliament had to abandon its critical faculties and go with it. And that this should be done by a so-called Conservative government, which should have learned at its collective mother's knee Burke's words about the duty of a representative to exercise his or her own judgement on behalf of his/her constituents rather than blindly follow their wishes, beggars belief.
Turning our back on Europe is bad enough, but I could live with that. But the wholesale abdication of its responsibilities by our political leadership after 23 June 2016 is what finally convinced me that we are finished as a nation.
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
But the wholesale abdication of its responsibilities by our political leadership after 23 June 2016 is what finally convinced me that we are finished as a nation.
And yet to many others, the fact that a government has not only asked the people what they want (which would have been remarkable enough in itself) but actually done what the people said is a breath of fresh air.
--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
It would have been a breath of fresh air if a) they had asked an intelligent question such that the answer meant something, and b) if they hadn't relied on lies and disinformation to scare the public into believing that immigration is a problem etc.
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
The trouble is, the government appears to be doing all kinds of things which were not voted for. For example, the anti-immigration stance. Was that on the ballot paper? I don't recollect that.
They are also operating in a kind of covert way. The are hints and nods, and leaks to selected journalists, before there is another denial.
I suppose the Tories have to preserve their own party - that comes first.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
But the wholesale abdication of its responsibilities by our political leadership after 23 June 2016 is what finally convinced me that we are finished as a nation.
And yet to many others, the fact that a government has not only asked the people what they want (which would have been remarkable enough in itself) but actually done what the people said is a breath of fresh air.
I saw the interviews with people who voted for Brexit and then were shocked and sorry that Leave won, and I wondered: If the political class had taken the people more seriously all along, perhaps some of the folks who voted Leave but apparently didn't really want the UK to exit the EU would have thought their vote would really matter and would have voted the other way. My view is of course colored by US experience with a political class that is itself quite disconnected from the struggles and cares of most Americans.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
I don't think it means we are finished. It is a low point, and the Tory party look out of their depth, and it is like government by smoke and mirrors. However, countries often bounce back from pretty abject states.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Exactly. Poxy country with no sense left of the proper public sphere or collective endeavour, poisoned by liberalisms of left and right. Wales, where I live, is a bit better than England, being still social democratic insofar as it's allowed to be.
Lead, follow or fuck off out of it then.
I'm tired of people complaining, it's a lifestyle here in the valleys and very few actually bother to do anything about anything because they're too busy moaning about how everything was better when the landscape was covered with mines and ironworks (and people often died before they were 50).
I grew up in the South Wales Valleys, and yes, this observation of mr cheesy's rings true.
Sadly, the Valleys voted Brexit, despite virtually every improvement / major piece of infrastructure being funded from Europe. Ok, we paid our money into the EU, but since when would a Westminster government invest in South Wales unless it really, really, really had to?
Howbeit, for all the whining that's going on this thread I see little by way of constructive recommendations.
We can moan and complain until we're blue in the face. How about trying to make a difference in some way? However small?
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
