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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Do I have a Divisional Officer to hear my complaint?
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RdrEmCofE
Shipmate
# 17511
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Posted
If a shipmate feels hard done by by an administrator is there an official channel through which advocacy can be obtained?
As an ex Chief Petty Officer RN I was used to having a Divisional Officer to whom I could take my case if I had perhaps suffered an unjust decision from a commissioned officer.
Is there a similar system aboard this Ship of Fools or would it just be foolhardy to ask?
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Love covers many sins. 1 Pet.4:8. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not holding their sins against them; 2 Cor.5:19
Posts: 255 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jan 2013
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
The Styx is the place where shipmates can dispute host rulings, with admins having the final say.
If you have something to complain about, this is the place to do so.
I suggest you read the 10 Commandments and relevant Guidelines before jumping in with both feet, though.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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RdrEmCofE
Shipmate
# 17511
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Posted
I just wonder what the procedure is. In the RN one had to put in a request to see one's Divisional Officer who would hear your case and decide if it needed to go forward for review by senior officers.
What happens here?
Bellyaching about things in the Sytx forum seems to be a bit mutinous to me, as well as being pretty ineffective. About as much notice is probably taken by authority of ratings dripping with each other in The Styx, dhobeying their dirty washing, as politicians take any notice of comedy satire like Spitting Image or The Mash Report.
[ 16. February 2018, 10:19: Message edited by: RdrEmCofE ]
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Love covers many sins. 1 Pet.4:8. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not holding their sins against them; 2 Cor.5:19
Posts: 255 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jan 2013
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
The Styx is the place where shipmates can dispute host rulings, with admins having the final say.
If you have something to complain about, this is the place to do so.
I suggest you read the 10 Commandments and relevant Guidelines before jumping in with both feet, though.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
RdrEmCofE
With the best will in the world I think there is a heap of differences between Her Majesty's ships (be they afloat or Stone Frigates) and an on-line forum like this.
My only experience of HM Forces is as a RAF Brat but the clearest impression I ever received was that orders are to be carried out immediately and without question (unless otherwise stated). I don't think anyone here has ever been ordered to do anything, although we are sometimes asked to desist.
The worst that can happen is that one might be bowler-hatted, but even that's unlikely.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RdrEmCofE:
If a shipmate feels hard done by by an administrator is there an official channel through which advocacy can be obtained?
As an ex Chief Petty Officer RN I was used to having a Divisional Officer to whom I could take my case if I had perhaps suffered an unjust decision from a commissioned officer.
Is there a similar system aboard this Ship of Fools or would it just be foolhardy to ask?
Hi, friendly SoF Admin here to answer your query.
The Styx (i.e. this board) is the place where complaints about Host/Admin rulings can be made. We don't provide you with an advocate, lawyer, counsellor or anything - we just let you make your case.
The intention is for it to be a co-operative process rather than a confrontational one. It's certainly not analogous to a trial or disciplinary hearing.
quote:
Originally posted by RdrEmCofE:
I just wonder what the procedure is. In the RN one had to put in a request to see one's Divisional Officer who would hear your case and decide if it needed to go forward for review by senior officers.
What happens here?
Far less bureaucracy, for a start. You just raise your issue on this board and the Admins ("senior officers", as you put it) will review it. One of the "privileges" of our position is that we review all cases and queries, however big or small.
quote:
Bellyaching about things in the Sytx forum seems to be a bit mutinous to me,
It's not mutinous, because that's what the Styx is for.
quote:
as well as being pretty ineffective. About as much notice is probably taken by authority of ratings dripping with each other in The Styx, dhobeying their dirty washing, as politicians take any notice of comedy satire like Spitting Image or The Mash Report.
As I'm sure every other long-standing Shipmate would tell you, that is not the case at all. We do take notice of all issues raised in the Styx, and we always provide an answer. Granted, it's not always the answer the thread starter wanted, but that's a different thing.
So please do feel free to raise your issue on this thread, or on a new one if you prefer. We'll deal with it.
Marvin
Admin
[ 16. February 2018, 10:46: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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RdrEmCofE
Shipmate
# 17511
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Posted
quote:
As I'm sure every other long-standing Shipmate would tell you, that is not the case at all. We do take notice of all issues raised in the Styx, and we always provide an answer. Granted, it's not always the answer the thread starter wanted, but that's a different thing.
That sounds encouraging. No more could be expected.
quote:
So please do feel free to raise your issue on this thread, or on a new one if you prefer. We'll deal with it.
I am waiting to see if a recently temporarily suspended thread is eventually re-activated, before airing a complaint if it isn't. I feel it right to allow the Administrator to follow the procedure he has deemed necessary and simply trust, for the time being, that a just decision will be the eventual outcome.
[ 16. February 2018, 11:29: Message edited by: RdrEmCofE ]
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Love covers many sins. 1 Pet.4:8. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not holding their sins against them; 2 Cor.5:19
Posts: 255 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jan 2013
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Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
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Posted
Apropos of nothing specific, I’d like to express my sincere gratitude for the work done by the H&As on this Styx board, and in particular the extraordinarily consistent patience and clemency manifest here.
You’re very good people.
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این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RdrEmCofE:
Bellyaching about things in the Sytx forum seems to be a bit mutinous to me, as well as being pretty ineffective.
As Marvin said, it's not mutinous because that's what we ask people to do if they have an issue with any official ruling. Taking it up on the thread where it was raised is problematic because it then makes the thread one of "was it right that I got told off?" rather than discussing whatever the thread was supposed to be about. So, bring all and any questions of whether you feel that you have been unfairly criticised here to the Styx. And, you don't need to wait for the original thread to be reopened, since the discussion about the ruling is going to happen here and only here.
As for effectiveness, I would add that we find it very effective. The hosts called you in public on something you said in public, and it's only reasonable that the discussion of that also happens in public. This has the effect of
a) giving the hosts a chance to explain their reasoning (generally host rulings are short because they don't want to disrupt discussion more than necessary - and, anyone who wants more information about why the call was made can always ask in the Styx),
b) giving whoever was told off the chance to explain why they didn't think they were doing anything wrong,
c) by doing all that in public there is less scope for accusations of bias, and everyone else can chip in with why they think the hosts are wrong (or otherwise), so that
d) this becomes a community discussion, with the community having a chance to comment freely, leading to
e) often an agreement and understanding without the admins having to wade in with a ruling. We like that, not because we're lazy and it saves us work (it doesn't really, because we still think about the issues raised and that's far more work than typing a post) but because it means that the community is working. And, finally
f) Styx threads become a record of past questions that can serve as a useful guide to others (not just those directly involved in a particular query) to what does and does not improve the quality of discussion on our boards.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
In case it is needed soon, ITTWACW stands for I Thought This Was A Christian Website.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
And there is a process, if you feel you need it. You can take a complain to Simon, the captain.
Personally, your chances of getting Simon to overrule the hosts is slightly lower than a redshirt surving to the end of an episode, but it is up to you.
If you don't like Simons ruling, you can go away. It is his ship. It is not the navy, it is not a democracy, it is a commercial (ha!) website.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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RdrEmCofE
Shipmate
# 17511
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Posted
Expressing my gratitude and thanks to you all. 3 minutes was indeed a prompt response. It remains to be seen whether other shipmates will consider my most recent epistle in the thread in question, worth ploughing doggedly through. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
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Love covers many sins. 1 Pet.4:8. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not holding their sins against them; 2 Cor.5:19
Posts: 255 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jan 2013
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If you don't like Simons ruling, you can go away. It is his ship. It is not the navy, it is not a democracy, it is a commercial (ha!) website.
I'm not sure of the legalities, but ISTM this is more a private website. Not only is there no commercial gain, that is not the intention.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
quote:
as well as being pretty ineffective.
As I'm sure every other long-standing Shipmate would tell you, that is not the case at all.
For the sake of pedantry and full disclosure, there are some seasoned Shipmates who are (sometimes / frequently / persistently) not fully satisfied with the efficacy or impartiality of the Styx. These instances are also available for public review and comment, to help anyone ascertain to their own satisfaction the degree to which the Crew attempt to be open, honest, and occasionally even fair regarding all issues raised.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
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Posted
Apropos of nothing specific, I’d like to express my sincere gratitude for the work done by the H&As on this Styx board, and in particular the extraordinarily consistent patience and clemency manifest here.
You’re very good people.
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این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If you don't like Simons ruling, you can go away. It is his ship. It is not the navy, it is not a democracy, it is a commercial (ha!) website.
I'm not sure of the legalities, but ISTM this is more a private website. Not only is there no commercial gain, that is not the intention.
We mean the same thing - it is not a money making site, but it is open to the public.
And yes, the hosts, admins, techy people, everyone who makes this place function rock. They are not always right - IMO - but they are always fair, they are always sensible and consistent. That is -kin hard to do.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
quote:
as well as being pretty ineffective.
As I'm sure every other long-standing Shipmate would tell you, that is not the case at all.
For the sake of pedantry and full disclosure, there are some seasoned Shipmates who are (sometimes / frequently / persistently) not fully satisfied with the efficacy or impartiality of the Styx. These instances are also available for public review and comment, to help anyone ascertain to their own satisfaction the degree to which the Crew attempt to be open, honest, and occasionally even fair regarding all issues raised.
All that is nice, but impossible to expect in a practical sense. Is it generally true that the crew attempts that standard? I think so. However, the practical realities of running a site such as this will result in failures to adhere to that. One could argue that bias is fair due to those realities, I suppose.
The largest factor in dissatisfaction with rulings is a disconnect between what the complaintent wants v what is fair.
However, stating that the intention is always fair is inaccurate and unrealistic.
I do think the balance is more towards fair and open than otherwise.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
No Host or Admin deliberately stirs up trouble. IME there are two types of Styx thread. The first type contains threads about whether the Hosts have applied the guidelines correctly. The second type contains threads which question the continuing fairness of the guidelines. Threads in this second category have led to some major changes e.g to the Dead Horse guide lines. Threads in the first category normally boil down to differences of opinion about the guideline boundaries e.g. is that statement a criticism of post (legitimate) or a criticism of person (C3 offence). Good people can differ honestly about individual cases, even after explanation and discussion.
Speaking as someone who has Hosted for almost a decade now, I've always found Styx threads illuminating. The general discovery is that what seems obvious to me doesn't always appear that way to other people!
[ 16. February 2018, 18:16: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
No Host or Admin deliberately stirs up trouble. IME there are two types of Styx thread. The first type contains threads about whether the Hosts have applied the guidelines correctly.
Other than adding 'and fairly' to the end of the third sentence, I would agree with your post. I do not think it contradicts mine, however.
Also, the context of my post is larger than just the Styx.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
I would like to offer up my thanks to the H&As as well. It's a tough job, and although no process is perfect, this process seems to me open and fair.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
No Host or Admin deliberately stirs up trouble.
I really don't think that's fair to RooK. It may be true, but it rather tells against the image he has taken such great pains to perfect.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
No Host or Admin deliberately stirs up trouble.
I really don't think that's fair to RooK. It may be true, but it rather tells against the image he has taken such great pains to perfect.
Don’t listen to the meanies, Rook. You are truly mean and vicious!
Who is the evil one? You are, you are!
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Promoted HellHosts, like RooK and Marvin, are a special breed. But I don't think they stirred up trouble. Their verbal assaults were always corrective. Even if they didn't leave a lot of skin on your back.
But I'd be careful if I were you. The My Little Pony avatar lies in wait for the provocative.
[ 16. February 2018, 21:01: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RdrEmCofE:
It remains to be seen whether other shipmates will consider my most recent epistle in the thread in question, worth ploughing doggedly through.
The answer to that appears to be a resounding "no".
These are discussion boards, not blogs. Long posts may be interesting to read, but they're difficult to respond to. Even more so when they're delivered in a proclamatory style. Long, detailed posts tend to shut down discussion rather than enable it. If you were talking to friends over a few beers in the pub, you would consider it a very strange discussion if everyone sat and listened to someone talk for 10 minutes.
My advice, cut out the epistles and post things that are easier to engage with. Keep posts reasonably short. Don't respond to multiple points in a single post. State your position as clearly and concisely as possible, you don't need to labour the point too much - you don't need to provide all the supporting material (of course, provide more information if asked). Leave an opportunity for others to comment and question.
You've started this thread to question how we do things here. Take the opportunity to learn from those of us who have been here a while, we've learnt (often the hard way) what does and doesn't make for good discussion.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RdrEmCofE:
Expressing my gratitude and thanks to you all. 3 minutes was indeed a prompt response. It remains to be seen whether other shipmates will consider my most recent epistle in the thread in question, worth ploughing doggedly through.
I didn’t. I can find no end of sermons online if that’s what I’m looking for. I come here for interesting discussions (plus fun in the Circus, plus support in All Saints etc etc)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Promoted HellHosts, like RooK and Marvin, are a special breed. But I don't think they stirred up trouble. Their verbal assaults were always corrective. Even if they didn't leave a lot of skin on your back.
I wish RdrEmCofE could have ‘met’ Erin. She was a master at specialised, informative and corrective verbal thwacks.
[ 17. February 2018, 13:38: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by RdrEmCofE:
Expressing my gratitude and thanks to you all. 3 minutes was indeed a prompt response. It remains to be seen whether other shipmates will consider my most recent epistle in the thread in question, worth ploughing doggedly through.
I didn’t. I can find no end of sermons online if that’s what I’m looking for.
I saw how long it was and didn’t even try reading it. The underlying theme of all these massive posts seems to be “you clearly don’t understand, but if I explain it in enough detail, you will and you’ll admit I’m right.” That’s not discussion. That’s lecturing.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Exactly. Far too prolix.
OTOH, a good subject for discussion ...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The My Little Pony avatar lies in wait for the provocative.
Or the willing.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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RdrEmCofE
Shipmate
# 17511
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Posted
Referring to the thread closure in Re-Baptism:
I'm back in the sin bin again it seems for complying with the commandment to quote scripture in full rather than just giving the chapter and verse. (keeping one commandment apparently infringes another it seems).
I could have answered each and every point in separate posts I suppose but that would probably have infringed some other commandment as well.
What is one supposed to do when dealing with multiple ripostes in a single reply?
Answering in short trite sound bites, with no supporting scripture is not debate, its more like arguing the toss.
Scripture, (according to scripture), is "useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," yet I am told that, by using it for those express purposes, "I am imposing a particular view on others."
I don't think I'm "imposing" anything of the sort. I am simply declaring what scripture actually states, (in an educational kind of way), with reference to the objections to the long established practice of paedo-baptism raised by another in the course of debate, about the subjects of covenants and baptism.
I am accused of posting " Preachy postings ".
Perhaps, if I did not justify my views, by citing the scriptures that cause me to hold those views, I would be considered less "preachy' and simply unjustifiably opinionated. I can't see how that would be preferable though, since the other debater supposedly bases his own argument upon his understanding of scripture also. Except in his case it is mostly what is NOT in scripture that supposedly reinforces his position on the subject, so he obviously has no need to quote his sources in full, since by his own admission, they simply don't exist.
Now, if my fellow debater would care to marshal his arguments one point at a time, rather than come at me with a Gish Gallop of multiple objections in a single post, I will endeavour to answer them, each in turn, and support my position by appealing to the scriptures, (and not just snippets of verses or supposed 'proofs' by what is not to be found in The New Testament).
Long posts will then be unnecessary and the debate can then proceed civilly and in an orderly manner, as is fitting among fellow disciples of Christ.
The Covenant and its Central Sacrament, Baptism are advanced doctrine. We are not dealing here with a milk snack meal for infants from a left or right teat. We are talking about the Meat of the Gospel and a supper in the Kingdom of God. 1 Cor.3:2, Heb.5:12-13, Luke 14:23-24.
I would much appreciate it if the overly long posts could be left in place so as not to disrupt the debate completely.
I shall restrict my replies in future to cover only one or two points per post as I am fully in agreement with the unwieldy appearance of very long replies. Walls of text are unsightly and I hope will be no longer necessary in answer to multiple ripostes in a single post.
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Love covers many sins. 1 Pet.4:8. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not holding their sins against them; 2 Cor.5:19
Posts: 255 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jan 2013
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
It is called effective communication.
Which means long enough to make your point without being too long for the given audience. In this medium, that is typically shorter than the novellas you have posted.
Many people here manage complex discussions without lengthy dissertation.
It isn't rocket surgery.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Maybe look and read how other people post. Most of us have fairly good brains and can formulate arguments that other people can follow - but most of us recognise that being long-winded, posting in capitals and generally acting like one is broadcasting rather than engaging is not how we discuss things in Purgatory.
The Bible passages thing is hard to understand for new people, but generally speaking the culture of Purgatory is to nod towards Bible passages rather than attempt to dissect them. This is largely because, I think, we recognise that there are sincerely held alternative views - and asserting that one is correct because of X y and z Bible passages is often boring, not to mention self-defeating if other people don't accept the first principles of your view of the Bible anyway.
Also we have a whole other board where one can have that kind of detailed discussion.
(X-post)
[ 17. February 2018, 16:13: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I think this gets to the heart of it:
quote:
Originally posted by RdrEmCofE:
Perhaps, if I did not justify my views, by citing the scriptures that cause me to hold those views, I would be considered less "preachy' and simply unjustifiably opinionated. I can't see how that would be preferable though, since the other debater supposedly bases his own argument upon his understanding of scripture also. Except in his case it is mostly what is NOT in scripture that supposedly reinforces his position on the subject, so he obviously has no need to quote his sources in full, since by his own admission, they simply don't exist.
For one thing, you're simply trying to carry the argument on here by stealth. That is not what the Styx is for, as has been patiently explained to you.
If you can't take the time or effort to fit into the culture here - and this has nothing to do with your views, theological or otherwise - then don't expect to get a hearing.
For another, the Ship, as has also been pointed out to you several times, is a place for discussion. There's no problem with you holding strong views and defending them robustly, but if all you can do is trash other people's - as you have done above - and post walls of text, you are not discussing.
What's not coming across here is any sort of respect for your environment or the people you're interacting with.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
Clarity is proportional to thought given beforehand
Brevity requires clarity of thought
Number of persons who read the whole post is proportional to clarity and brevity
Number of people who agree with you is irrelevant as long as you have followed these dictates
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RdrEmCofE:
I'm back in the sin bin again it seems for complying with the commandment to quote scripture in full rather than just giving the chapter and verse. (keeping one commandment apparently infringes another it seems).
I don't recall an instruction to quote Scripture in full. It would be an odd instruction to give here. If you can tell us when and where a host gave such an instruction that it would help.
Remember, most people here would likely know what the words of the Bible are, or can very easily look them up. In Kerygmania, where we discuss specific passages of Scripture, we ask people to help others by giving a link to an online Bible for passages people want to discuss, the link helps those who want to double check their memory of the verses.
Generally speaking, citing Scripture doesn't add to a discussion. We all know what the words are. What we want to know is what you think those words mean, because your interpretation is something we can discuss.
quote:
I could have answered each and every point in separate posts I suppose but that would probably have infringed some other commandment as well.
What is one supposed to do when dealing with multiple ripostes in a single reply?
The answer is simple, keep the structure of posts simple. If you're replying to lots of people put each reply in a separate post (unless they're so closely related that it's simpler to answer several people at the same time). It makes it much easier for someone to find your reply to them if it's in a separate post. Make life as easy for others to follow your argument as possible.
quote:
Answering in short trite sound bites, with no supporting scripture is not debate, its more like arguing the toss.
No one is asking for trite sound bites. But, there's a lot of space between a sound bite and an essay. Aim for somewhere in between. Plus, of course, support would be more than citing Scripture - use Scripture as appropriate, but just citing Scripture is not supportive of an argument, we need to know how you interpret it (which may be different from how others interpret it).
quote:
I shall restrict my replies in future to cover only one or two points per post as I am fully in agreement with the unwieldy appearance of very long replies. Walls of text are unsightly and I hope will be no longer necessary in answer to multiple ripostes in a single post.
That sound like a good place to start.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
RdrEmCofE said -
quote:
Long posts will then be unnecessary and the debate can then proceed civilly and in an orderly manner, as is fitting among fellow disciples of Christ.
IITWACW again.
Just to point out that by no means everyone here is a ‘fellow disciple of Christ’.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Indeed, and quite a few of us also have Real Lives, and not a great deal of time to read lectures.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I wish RdrEmCofE could have ‘met’ Erin. She was a master at specialised, informative and corrective verbal thwacks.
May she rest in peace and rise in resplendently sharp-fanged glory.
[ 17. February 2018, 19:15: Message edited by: Rossweisse ]
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RdrEmCofE
...to quote scripture in full rather than just giving the chapter and verse.
You can provide a link to the text at one of the online Bible sites. My favorite site is Oremus Bible Browser.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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RdrEmCofE
Shipmate
# 17511
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Posted
Thanks Moo.
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Love covers many sins. 1 Pet.4:8. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not holding their sins against them; 2 Cor.5:19
Posts: 255 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jan 2013
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
I did read the post in question - more than once, as it was unusually long - and was just formulating some comments in response when the thread closed. Just to let you know that not everyone abandoned the post after the first paragraph!
Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008
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RdrEmCofE
Shipmate
# 17511
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Posted
Thanks Aravis.
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Love covers many sins. 1 Pet.4:8. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not holding their sins against them; 2 Cor.5:19
Posts: 255 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jan 2013
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Aravis
You can always continue dialogue by PM. Purg Guideline 6 is in the interests of the many.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
re: verbosity
When I first began posting on a discussion board that covers a different field from SoF's, I often used most posts as a format for "thinking out" my positions. As a result they were long and often convoluted.
An administrator gave me two very useful pieces of advice.
1) think it out before you write
2) don't wear out your readers with a "wall of words"
Practicing this was actually difficult for me. But in time it sunk in.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
Posts: 547 | From: here | Registered: Sep 2012
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
On the other hand, "thinking out" posts are often the most interesting and lead to the best discussions. They do benefit from careful thought in crafting, and of course some detail can be left to follow-up posts as the discussion progresses.
Though I find the vast majority of my personal posts are "thinking out" positions to a greater of lesser extent. And, I tend to read everyone else as though they're also thinking out their position - which makes posts that appear to be a proclamation of settled position much harder to discuss, if the post doesn't include any implicit questions what do we get to try to answer?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
I agree, Alan, that a carefully crafted thinking-out post can enhance discussion. Your own posts on the Brexit thread were excellent examples of that. They developed out of a clearly expressed commitment that served as a platform from which to enquire, expand, and explore.
My own thinking out writing typically meandered on and on with many subordinate clauses, and either/of and "on the other hand" statements.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
Posts: 547 | From: here | Registered: Sep 2012
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Sigh. We all can't be Alan Cresswell. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Promoted HellHosts, like RooK and Marvin, are a special breed. But I don't think they stirred up trouble. Their verbal assaults were always corrective. Even if they didn't leave a lot of skin on your back.
I wish RdrEmCofE could have ‘met’ Erin. She was a master at specialised, informative and corrective verbal thwacks.
Well, plenty of posts in Oblivion and Limbo still have her posts/toothmarks.
![[Smile]](smile.gif) ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
What's not coming across here is any sort of respect for your environment or the people you're interacting with.
Old adage from Internet communities:
Know the culture, and respect the "gods".
Basically, pay attention to what's going on, and learn from it. Learn about the people and structure of the community. The rules and etiquette may not be what you're used to--just as if you moved to a new place or another country.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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