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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Your suggestions for debate threads
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Simon
Editor
# 1
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Posted
Thanks for the discussion so far, everyone. There are now 45 jokes posted here, and more are to follow. I think this is a good point to pull together some of the themes we're encountering and start a few threads where we can debate them. The suffering of Christ and the stereotyping of priests might be two such themes/threads... but what themes would you like to see opened up for debate here?
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Eternal memory
Posts: 3787 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
What about: who can certain tell jokes / who can we tell them too?
I mean things like: can I (as a non-Jew) tell that joke about praying to win the Lottery? How do we feel telling non-Christian friends religious jokes?
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Celibacy and a perceived anti-Catholic bias in some forms of religious jokes. You don't get half as many jokes about the Archbishop of Canterbury as you do about the Pope. Priests in religious jokes tend to be equated with Catholic paedophiles and celibates often seem to be the target of jokes. Have you had any jokes about Orthodox clergy or other denominations or practices specific to them?
I'm finding some of the obviously Catholic ones hard to take. It might be easier from another perspective where I was less personally involved. But I'm curious to get an idea of roughly what proportion of what you've received is overtly about Catholic clergy or practices as opposed to any other denomination. There is a lot of stereotyping in humour - there always has been since the stock characters of Greek and Roman comedy - it would be interesting to see what other denominations could come up with.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Two common themes in jokes appear to involve the Virgin Mary
and nuns
Or perhaps they could both be included in a general theme about the treatment of women in religious jokes
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
How about a general discussion, on where the boundaries are.
Where does something become too sacred to laugh at, or beyond the bounds of making fun of? Can something ever be too sacred? Why?
Sarkycow
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
I should like to see some discussion of religious humour in a more general sense - not only in relation to what is offensive or could be so perceived. I'm aware of the goals of the project, but should enjoy seeing what Ship mates find appealing in religious or church-related humour.
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
Posts: 6740 | From: Library or pub | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
What actually is blasphemy? What constitutes it, do we recognize it as a valid concept any more?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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themanwiththegingerhair
Apprentice
# 9691
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Posted
Many of the jokes I have seen in other non-religious guises. The only thing that makes them religious is that the person involved is a priest etc.
What jokes genuinely rely on the religious context?
Posts: 28 | From: Birmingham | Registered: Jul 2005
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inquisitiveunbeliever
Apprentice
# 9803
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Posted
One thing that isn't really being discussed so much is the original intention of all this - to talk about offence, religious hatred, censorship etc.
One thing I have noticed is that the jokes rarely attack religion - they are either 'inside' jokes for christians (perhaps of a particular denomination) or just generally offensive (ie all the paedophile ones).
One thing they definitely don't do is to 'incite religious hatred'. They might make religious people hate the teller (if they were very touchy) but they wouldn't make other listeners hate Christians. Perhaps a possible exception is the ongoing stereotype about Catholic priests and children, which could cause violence and prejudice on the part of impressionable people.
I'd like to know whether people think this new act will have any effect on humour (personally, I don't think it has any such intention) and indeed whether it ought to. I'm also interested by what was said about the Bible itself being an incitement to hatred against 'idolaters' - how far can people go with the idea of righteousness and damnation before it just turns into hatred and prejudice?
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"It is a misfortune of mine and a fate by which I am plagued that I cannot steal away from history and use my time more profitably." Pius II
Posts: 2 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jul 2005
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
The importance of context.
Telling a joke verbally in a situation where you have a sense of the people hearing it and their mood and hang-ups is much different than randomly posting a text version on a web-site.
As I pointed out here: responses to jokes are going to be heavily influenced by both their emotional investment in particular religious/church beliefs and allegiances, combined with the recipient's ability to not take the joke personally.
I personally simply can't take a text-medium joke as offensive - it has no context. I have no idea who said it, what beliefs/personality/motive are behind it. Whether I find it funny or not seems to be extremely dependent upon my mood at the time I read it. Which again says nothing about the joke and everything about (my personal at that moment) context.
[ 17. July 2005, 21:43: Message edited by: jlg ]
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Anie
Apprentice
# 9728
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Posted
How about opening a debate on the controversy surrounding Paul's conversion. Some say he was blackmailed into professing followership of Jesus' faith. On charges os Adultry!. Could this be true?
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Ripeness is all,let us share in love before dawn.
Posts: 3 | From: Lagos | Registered: Jul 2005
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
Do you have to be proud to take offence? The self-important are the most easily offended. The genuinely humble, and the truly self-confident are perhaps the hardest to offend.
After the scandal of the cross, is there such a thing as offence towards God or Jesus?
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Marquis
Apprentice
# 9750
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Posted
I am finding it very interesting that there are only certain denominations that appear to be offered some sort of "offense Protection". Jokes that are anti-catholic or anti-jewish get sprited rebuttal from just about all of us, but jokes that are anti C of E (for example) appear to get glossed over. Perhaps it is due to a lack of response from the C of E (for example)members, perhaps it stems from the fact that everyone just assumes that the C of E (for example) folks will just grin and bear it. Whatever it is, I find it very interesting.
And yes, I am C of E (as an example)! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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"I believe that the words Favour", "Owe", and "Big" were used....."
Posts: 28 | From: NYC | Registered: Jul 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
This is doubtless flameworthy, but somebody (not me, ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) I can't remember who) said that they believed Jews and RCs got a "pass" on this because of a prevailing cultural idea, "Poor dears, they can't help it." But run-of-the-mill Protestants are fair game because they have supposedly "chosen" to believe what they believe, and can be mercilessly mocked.
I don't know whether this theory is more offensive to the Jews/RCs or to the Protestants. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Long-Johns Silver
Apprentice
# 1763
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Posted
I understand the need to close the list in order to select a top ten, but what about having a forum for the 'latecomers' - one's people have just remembered & for folks like me who've been busy then on holiday. Whilst these jokes can't be in the top ten it would be a shame if some goodies could not be shared because they were too late.
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"Smile", they said "it could be worse".
So I did...
And it was.
Posts: 49 | From: "The Church" - Church Inn that is :-) | Registered: Nov 2001
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Equestrian Bob
Apprentice
# 9505
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Posted
I.'m not sure if this is the right thread for this but am I the only person who find the Comedian Ricky Gervais offensive and unfunny in the extreme.
THE OFFICE was the most smutty filth I have ever seen on the telly and a major turn off. I seemed to miss the bit where the so called Evangelical or Liberal Christian Leader attacked this muck. Did it ever happen.
Right I am going to say it Rick Gervais - you are not funny, you are smutty and you are vastly overpaid for someone with dubious talent. Mind you he probably does nto think I'm particularly funny either.
There that's got it off me chest - for now any way
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equestrian Bob
Posts: 44 | From: North London | Registered: May 2005
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Procrastinus
Ship's Fortean
# 9915
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Equestrian Bob:
am I the only person who find the Comedian Ricky Gervais offensive and unfunny in the extreme.
THE OFFICE was the most smutty filth I have ever seen on the telly and a major turn off.
I don't really like Gervais, particularly in interviews, but The Office the most smutty filfth you've ever seen on the telly ?!? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Do you not watch much television ? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Also, don't remember any religious content - offensive or otherwise - were you thinking of any particular joke or plotline ?
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Dare to be wise; begin.
Posts: 198 | From: Imaginary Future | Registered: Aug 2005
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Papio
Ship's baboon
# 4201
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Equestrian Bob:
THE OFFICE was the most smutty filth I have ever seen on the telly and a major turn off.
Just out of curiosity, do you have Channel 5?
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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page
Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Equestrian Bob:
THE OFFICE was the most smutty filth I have ever seen on the telly and a major turn off.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
I actually think you could get a decent sermon out of the final episode. But the 'most smutty filth', get a grip, perlease.
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insert amusing sig. here
Posts: 8705 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Brendan
Apprentice
# 10223
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Posted
All this discussion about what is or is not funny is interesting, but let's get to the real issue: what jokes, if any, should be against the law?
Here are some criteria:
Any law must pass the Python test (those films are philosophy by other means, aside from their comic qualities), the Nietzsche test (I can imagine some Christians finding his work offensive, too bad we're not taking him off the curriculum), the critique-of-power test (sniggering at crowns and croziers is part of the stuggle for freedom) and the but-you-don't-have-to-watch-it test (so we censor billboards and TV trailers but not theatre or books, and push in a liberal direction re. post-watershed TV).
I'm struggling to think how a new law could pass these tests AND at the same time extend current UK legislation, let alone achieve the stated aims of this bill.
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Brendan
Posts: 1 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2005
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