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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: As anthems go...
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georgiaboy
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# 11294
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Posted
I'd put Finzi's 'Lo the Full Final Sacrifice' right up there with it.
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You can't retire from a calling.
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Can we try to get some amount of discussion going here? Otherwise this worthy topic is in danger of turning into a list thread, which as we know, is an abomination unto the Lord.
Thank you.
Mamacita, Eccles Host
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
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CorgiGreta
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# 443
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Posted
I've never heard "Blest Pair of Sirens" sung in church or anywhere else for that matter. That may negatively reflect more upon me than upon the music.
In any case, since my parish is on a very busy street we don't appreciate sirens.
Having thus engaged in discussion, I hope I can open up the thread to further discussion by mentioning my choices:
"If ye love me" - Tallis
"Lead me, Lord" - S.S. Wesley
[ 21. May 2012, 00:15: Message edited by: CorgiGreta ]
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
And what is it about these anthems that you all like? Come on, people, it's not that difficult a question.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
I would say that I like the two I have listed because they are simultaneously simple and profound, somewhat dark and yet deeply comforting. I don't dislike more spirited, complex, and triumphant anthems, and they definitely belong in some festivals, but for an ordinary Sunday I prefer more quiet, prayerful, contemplative anthems.
While there are many others (I won't list them)that fit my bill, the two I favor seem to be somewhat less frequently sung in my experience, and that makes my hearing them somewhat special.
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
I would agree with much of that, CorgiGreta. I find the Tallis transporting, in the contemplative way you mentioned, and that is what nourishes me most while preparing myself inwardly for the eucharist.
And I probably sound like a philistine for saying that, while I find the harmonies in "Blest Pair of Sirens," quite lush, the text is just too precious for my taste. It struck me as fine for a state occasion like a royal wedding (which is the only way I know it) and when you have a superb choir that can fill a cathedral.
Perhaps my experience with anthems is limited because my church choir is pretty small and, sad to say, mediocre.
[ 21. May 2012, 02:09: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
And I probably sound like a philistine for saying that, while I find the harmonies in "Blest Pair of Sirens," quite lush, the text is just too precious for my taste. It struck me as fine for a state occasion like a royal wedding (which is the only way I know it) and when you have a superb choir that can fill a cathedral.
Blest Pair is one of those multi-minute anthems that's about perfect for Evensong "in quires and places where they sing." Another good barnbuster is Wesley's "Ascribe Unto the Lord." And of course there's "Blessed be the God and Father." These sorts of anthems are wonderful but get way too long for a typical Holy Eucharist. I don't know for sure, but I would imagine many of these were in fact conceived as Evensong anthems.
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
Judging from the link you provided, Mamacita, it seems that we are far from alone in our feelings about the Tallis.
I am so pleased to see that it has been viewed by hundreds of thousands of people on YouTube. Popularity isn't everything, but when it comes to something as supposedly rarefied as liturgical music, I think that those are amazing numbers.
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
Wow! "If ye love me" by The Cambridge Singers has alone had over 210,000 views.
I loved this comment: "is it normal to forget to breathe while listening to this?"
[ 21. May 2012, 04:30: Message edited by: CorgiGreta ]
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Edgeman
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# 12867
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Posted
I'm convinced that Stnford's "For Lo, I Raise Up" is the most amazing example of setting a text to music the fits it. The way it starts off so quick and almost aggressively, but then turns so meditative for the solo "I will stand upon my watch".
If you want something with lush harmonies and a (Mostly) good text, certainly you can't go wrong with Gardiner's 'Evening Hymn'. Saccharine, drippingly sweet music at it's best, and you can't go wrong with the traditional office hymn texts.
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Devils Advocate
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# 16484
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Posted
Parry Wesley Stanford all good though what about Elgar? He wrote some very nice Anthems ( Look down O Queen) Personally I rather like Parry's "I was Glad" and Mendelssohn's "Hear my Prayer" though the latter is rather long.
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"Oh I have wrought much evil with my spells"
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mettabhavana
Apprentice
# 16217
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Posted
IME 'Lead me, Lord' (S S Wesley) is superb when sung with a meditative intention, crisp intonation and SLOW enough. Otherwise it easily becomes sugary and/or 'plinky-plonky'.
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And are we yet alive?
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Judging from the link you provided, Mamacita, it seems that we are far from alone in our feelings about the Tallis.
Indeed not. It's one of my favorites too. We were rehearsing it in a very cold church one winter night, and when we got to "And I will give you another comforter" an elderly gent in the choir muttered, "I could sure use another comforter!"
Another of my favorites is Randall Thompson's Alleluia. I love how it builds to a climax, which in my mind is the soul reaching heaven. And once we get there, there's only one thing to be said: "Alleluia!"
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
I concur with Amanda on the Thompson Alleluia (oversung as it undoubtedly is).
I would also put on my list Harold Friedell's "Draw Us In the Spirit's Tether;" Gibbons' "O Clap Your Hands;" and Paul Manz' "E'en So Lord Jesus, Quickly Come."
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
To avoid Mamacita's wrath, I hasten to add what I like about the selected anthems.
Friedell's anthem has an amazing soaring melody that reduces me to tears, as well as a vibrant text. Gibbons' "O Clap" is just a whole lot of fun to sing. The Manz is a staple of the Advent liturgy and probably one of the most "sung" of American anthems. It also represents the Lutheran anthem tradition, which is very strong but perhaps less well represented in non-Lutheran churches.
I confess to little liking mid-Victorian English anthems (hence my non-inclusion of Wesley or Goss), though I adore Stanford and Parry. And John Ireland -- I forgot to add to my list his "Greater Love Hath No Man," which is beautifully written and again, much fun to sing.
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Maurice Greene's Thou visitest the earth.
I got to know it from hearing it at cathedral evensong. It's very C18 character sets it apart from the average anthem.
It has a lovely lilting melody that fits the words.
It has bundles of charm of a very English and C18 nature.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
Jumping back in to say that Finzi's 'Lo the Full Final Sacrifice' weds a strong Eucharistic theology to a vision of heaven expressed in superb poetry, and just the most gawjus organ accompaniment. It's worth every bit of the work it takes to learn, rehearse and perform.
BTW, we sang Wesley's 'Blessed be the God…' at the offertory yesterday, and it was just about the right length to cover the offertory action and censing. And IIRC it was first sung on Easter Day in Hereford Cathedral at the Eucharist, though what Wesley did for the final section is a bit of a puzzle, since he had only trebles and a single bass. (Or so it is reported.)
'Lead me, Lord' is just the final wisp of a very long anthem, and sounds quite different in its original context. But I like it by itself, also.
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You can't retire from a calling.
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Vaticanchic
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# 13869
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Posted
I don't think I've come across Blessed Pair of Sirens recently
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
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Vaticanchic
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# 13869
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Posted
Managed to avoid Gibbons' O Clap as well
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
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Saviour Tortoise
Shipmate
# 4660
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Posted
I love Blest Pair of Sirens (Best Pair of Nylons, as 'tis known in many choir circles). Majestic meoldies, glorious harmonies, and definitely a "big evensong" piece.
I would add to the list Herbert Howells' "Behold, O God our defender". Much more of a 'miniature', but that wonderful, broad, rhapsodic writing gets me every time. (And I'm lucky enough to have a choir good enough to sing it well, so I get to conduct it every so often as well! Whereas I've never had a 'go' at Blest Pair.)
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Baptised not Lobotomised
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Bax
Shipmate
# 16572
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Posted
As we seem to be discussing this prom the choirs point of view, then Harris "Faire is the heaven" must get a mention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwvBaZJHGRk
Wonderful words, lush harmonies and, once you know it well enough, an absolute joy to sing. The problem I always find being that I love it so much I start "welling up" while singing it, if you know what I mean! (The part just before the end when the 1st motif returns always gets me!)
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bax:
As we seem to be discussing this prom the choirs point of view, then Harris "Faire is the heaven" must get a mention.
Yes. It's the transcendence of the ultraglorious modulation at "...which attend on God's own Person..." - it's like we've arrived in the Divine Throne Room. Gets me every time, even if I've already been gotten by the delicious crunch of the chord on "glorious" closer to the beginning ("Whence they do still behold the glorious face..."]. OK, I've welled up just thinking about it. On to the video.
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
[ 23. May 2012, 16:31: Message edited by: Oblatus ]
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
I may be the only one who doesn't like Blest Pair of Sirens, then, which I think of as an overblown,bombastic choral warhorse. My (secular) choir seems to do it every few years -- this year I'm sitting it out. I do though really rate Parry's 'Song's of Farewell' (esp his setting of John Donne's 'From the Round Earth's Imagined Corners') but that's not an anthem.
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
I forgot Herbert Howells' "Like as the Hart" -- bluesy, slinky melody, another choir favorite, strong text. Never go wrong with Herbert.
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Fidei Defensor
Shipmate
# 17105
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Posted
It's a complete oratorio, not an anthem (although I bet that a goodly number of choirs will sing God so loved the World the Sunday after next), but I'm reminded of Sir Thomas Beecham's answer when someone asked him what he thought of Stainer's Crucifixion.
"Long overdue".
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Das ist gewisslich wahr!
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Wow! "If ye love me" by The Cambridge Singers has alone had over 210,000 views.
I loved this comment: "is it normal to forget to breathe while listening to this?"
It is beautiful. But I admit I had to stifle a giggle at first, seeing that the video uses footage from the "Night on Bald Mountain" segment from Disney's Fantasia.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Forgive the double post, but I want to add something, and that is my appreciation for the contributions to this thread. I am gradually making my way through the selections (thanks to those who have provided links). I find the comments to be especially helpful and just wanted to recognize the effort that you have made to offer these.
Many thanks.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Thanks Boss.
By the way, do British choirs ever sing anthems by American composers? Amanda and I named three relatively famous anthems from the USA (Thompson's Alleluia, Friedell's In the Spirit's Tether and Manz' E'en So Lord Quickly Come). Have any of you sung, or heard, these or other American anthems? Just askin'.
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Morlader
Shipmate
# 16040
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fidei Defensor:
It's a complete oratorio, not an anthem (although I bet that a goodly number of choirs will sing God so loved the World the Sunday after next), but I'm reminded of Sir Thomas Beecham's answer when someone asked him what he thought of Stainer's Crucifixion.
"Long overdue".
I heard it as "A very good idea".
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.. to utmost west.
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I adore Purcell's Rejoice in the Lord Alway, otherwise known as The Bell Anthem. I love the introduction which sounds like bells, the alternating of leading parts and the magnificent and joyful ending. Just a delicious and inspiring sound!
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Bax
Shipmate
# 16572
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
Thanks Boss.
By the way, do British choirs ever sing anthems by American composers? Amanda and I named three relatively famous anthems from the USA (Thompson's Alleluia, Friedell's In the Spirit's Tether and Manz' E'en So Lord Quickly Come). Have any of you sung, or heard, these or other American anthems? Just askin'.
I have sung (and love) the Manz E'en so Lord Jesus; never heard of any other the others you mentioned.
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Bax
Shipmate
# 16572
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Posted
This is a little off topic (in as much that this is a canticle setting, rather than an anthem) but in terms of music that I adore Howells Gloucester Service has a very special place in my heart (in the "I want to listen to this music as I lay dying" category...)
This is a reasonable account of the Magnificat thereof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpvbeC5JaHA
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Pre-cambrian
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# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
By the way, do British choirs ever sing anthems by American composers? Amanda and I named three relatively famous anthems from the USA (Thompson's Alleluia, Friedell's In the Spirit's Tether and Manz' E'en So Lord Quickly Come). Have any of you sung, or heard, these or other American anthems? Just askin'.
We've sung the Friedell and Manz but not the Thompson. I can't bring to mind how the Manz goes, but I quite like the Friedell except for the coda which I think is a really weak bit of writing.
We have done other pieces by American composers (e.g. Eric Whitacre, Mack Wilberg), maybe because our Director of Music was previouly at a US cathedral, but it's a small proportion of the whole.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
Thanks Boss.
By the way, do British choirs ever sing anthems by American composers? Amanda and I named three relatively famous anthems from the USA (Thompson's Alleluia, Friedell's In the Spirit's Tether and Manz' E'en So Lord Quickly Come). Have any of you sung, or heard, these or other American anthems? Just askin'.
Lots of Lauridsen. Appears to be lots of American music in Oxford/Cambridge chapels from my recent perusal of music lists - I guess with Organ Scholars now being well and truly of the Youtube generation, previously unbeknownst music is easier for choirs to stumble across.
A few of my faves at the moment are anything unaccompanied by Pierre Villette (get the Holst Singers disc), and Javier Busto's Ave Maria.
Ahhhh... Busto.
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
I forgot Herbert Howells' "Like as the Hart" -- bluesy, slinky melody, another choir favorite, strong text. Never go wrong with Herbert.
As I recall, the basses blast out a low E on the line "When shall I see the face of God".
I once sang under a choir director who was convinced that Howells felt that every English choirboy should know how to count, and that he saw it as his divine mission to teach them to do so.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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sonata3
Shipmate
# 13653
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Posted
Two that I think merit attention, both musically and as a sensitive setting of a significant text:
Kenneth Leighton's "Solus ad victimam" ("Alone to sacrifice, thou goest, Lord"), which I did in my church music days as often as I could get away with - the climax is hair-raising, and itmakes the perfect Palm Sunday anthem.
"Like as The Hart" by Howells, noted more than once previously on this thread, is one of a set of four anthems -- two probably still out of print. But "O Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem" (from Ps. 122) is just as beautiful as "Like As..."
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"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Our head chorister this month has voted for 'Zadok the Priest'. I've always wondered about this one, whether it really has much to do with modern church life. But when I read her explanation, it makes perfect sense: 'I think that the uplifting message of this anthem can teach us all to have a bit of a party and rejoice!' Fitting words for the Jubilee weekend, indeed.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
By the way, do British choirs ever sing anthems by American composers? Amanda and I named three relatively famous anthems from the USA (Thompson's Alleluia, Friedell's In the Spirit's Tether and Manz' E'en So Lord Quickly Come). Have any of you sung, or heard, these or other American anthems? Just askin'.
We've sung the Friedell and Manz but not the Thompson. I can't bring to mind how the Manz goes, but I quite like the Friedell except for the coda which I think is a really weak bit of writing.
I want the Friedell at my funeral, but yes, the coda is weak. I think he is trying to capture the contrast of the simple and the grand in Eucharist, and it falls a little flat. He did a nice setting of "Humbly I Adore Thee" that we whip out from time to time. Standard bit where the original hymn tune goes from part to part, and a rather easy summer choir selection.
The Thompson is pretty much required high school repertoire in the States. One of our staff Bass sang at Tanglewood while he was in school, and told us that the anthem was originally written for the Tanglewood Music Festival. Apparently Thompson didn't get it written until a few hours before its premier, and the choir barely had any time to rehearse it before the concert. In subsequent years, it has become traditional for the festival choir to rehearse it only once a few minutes before the first concert of the season, and then to perform it on stage.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
So far most people have selected anthems in English, so I'll refrain from mentioning my favourites in Latin and cast a vote for Purcell's "Thou knowest, Lord, the secrets of our hearts". Like the Tallis "If ye love me" which several people have mentioned, it's a simple, beautiful setting where the words are clearly audible and enhanced, rather than obscured, by the music.
Is it coincidence that hardly any Latin anthems are mentioned? Are most people not familiar with them, or is it more that the words are inaccessible?
I learnt a lot of the anthems I know in a college chapel choir. The chapel committee had passed a resolution that anything sung in another language had to have a translation provided for the congregation, so we did know what all the words meant; in retrospect I'm very grateful for this, as my Latin is a bit patchy.
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
When the word "anthem" is used, I usually think of choral pieces in English. I tend to think of works in Latin as motets, though maybe that's just me.
Byrd's "Ave Verum Corpus," old chestnut that it is, is still a favorite. Many of the selections from the Eton choirbook, especially Cornysh's astonishing "Salve Regina," are fantastic as well.
In English, I love Bairstow's "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence," which is great fun to sing as well as hear.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
In English, I love Bairstow's "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence," which is great fun to sing as well as hear.
I had the pleasure of singing that one in York Minster. The big pauses after the final "Alleluias" bring on twice as many goosebumps when you can hear the sound go all the way down the nave and back.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
By the way, do British choirs ever sing anthems by American composers? Amanda and I named three relatively famous anthems from the USA (Thompson's Alleluia, Friedell's In the Spirit's Tether and Manz' E'en So Lord Quickly Come). Have any of you sung, or heard, these or other American anthems? Just askin'.
We've sung the Friedell and Manz but not the Thompson. I can't bring to mind how the Manz goes, but I quite like the Friedell except for the coda which I think is a really weak bit of writing.
I want the Friedell at my funeral, but yes, the coda is weak. I think he is trying to capture the contrast of the simple and the grand in Eucharist, and it falls a little flat.
...
But as for the Friedell, those closing moments can be quite glorious if you have a brave tenor who can milk the resolution of that last suspension in a quasi-operatic manner. Although a priest sitting in choir once turned to me and said 'show biz' when we had achieved it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Some of Friedell's other anthems are of the bigger variety, more like Stanford or Wesley in scope. There's one for Palm Sunday which I particularly like, but can't find the reference at the moment.
BTW, for choral drama it is hard to beat 'Let This Mind Be in You' a setting of the complete Palm Sunday epistle (in the TEC lectionary) by Mrs. H.H.A. Beach. Requires a competent and brave bass soloist and a soprano soloist who can soar up to IIRC B-flat in alt, and a choir that can sustain a long and intense unaccompanied middle section, but other than that it's not hard to pull off ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) Very dramatic and the dying cadences at the end ('to the glory of God the Father')might have been stolen from Turandot, with which it is roughly contemporary.
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You can't retire from a calling.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
We've sung Morten Lauridsen's 'Lux Aeterna', which is very atmospheric and beautiful.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
My own favourites include, Parry's 'My soul, there is a country'. Finzi's 'God is gone up....' (and 'My Spirit sang all day' though it's not religious, I think?).
Finzi is very much, imo, a singer's composer. His works are so satisfying to sing. Beautiful lines working very fluidly with the words. Herbert Howells has a similar feel. There's a kind of naturalness about how the music travels with the words even though the sound is 'modern'.
Parry, seems to have these incredible 'inside-out' harmonies - kind of like music in 3D. Another great joy to sing.
Mendhelssohn's 'He that shall endure to the end' is an excellent compact anthem for a choir of any size. Quite perfectly written, with a sweet and calm resolution that just makes you want to go 'aaaahhhh!'
I love the oldies, too. Weelkes's 'Hosanna to the Son of David' is a solid belter to make the ears rings. And as mentioned above Byrd's 'Ave Verum' is a real gem.
Byrd and Gibbons I have particular fondness for. Jakob Handl (not sure about the spelling) I have some very good memories of, though can't just recall my favourites off hand without checking. Been so long since I sang any of this stuff!
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I love the oldies, too. Weelkes's 'Hosanna to the Son of David' is a solid belter to make the ears rings.
Our choirmaster likes to say that it sounds like what the entry into Jerusalem must have sounded like: loud, chaotic, tense, and a little ominous.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I love the oldies, too. Weelkes's 'Hosanna to the Son of David' is a solid belter to make the ears rings.
Our choirmaster likes to say that it sounds like what the entry into Jerusalem must have sounded like: loud, chaotic, tense, and a little ominous.
Yeah - that's it! It's not a 'safe' Hosanna', not pretty and divine. 'Ominous' is perfect!
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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