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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Spring Harvest 2012 (and similar things)
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Calleva Atrebatum
Shipmate
# 14058
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Posted
I was there. And was, I think, a little underwhelmed* by the whole experience (can I say something like this in Purg? That doesn't count as Hellish, does it?!)
I don't want to start a winge about how they largely ignored Holy Week and Easter Sunday (well, actually I do, but we'll pretend I don't).
What I'm really interested in is what your thoughts are on these big Christian festivals - as a young con evo I loved Soul Survivor, but couldn't imagine liking it now. So, are they a force for good in the church, a decadance, an irrelevance? And are there Roman Catholic/Anglocathlic and liberal equivalents... I mean, I've heard of Greenbelt, that's a fairly liberal one, isn't it? But I've never been. Or do traditional open Catholic Anglicans or liberal Roman Catholics prefer going on retreat to this sort of thing?
*except the bit where a certain Bishop there said he was on Ship. That bit was excellent.
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Offence is taken, it is not given.
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chris stiles
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# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Calleva Atrebatum:
What I'm really interested in is what your thoughts are on these big Christian festivals - as a young con evo I loved Soul Survivor, but couldn't imagine liking it now. So, are they a force for good in the church, a decadance, an irrelevance?
I have been to all the ones you mention - though went to Soul Survivor when they were fairly small.
They can be both a good and bad thing. These days they tend to be slightly more sectarian - but I suspect that's as much to do with general rising affluence in some of the non-conformist groups as much as anything else. Greenbelt made a couple of mis-steps during the 90s and that played a part in various church groups setting up their own 'youth' orientated festivals (Soul Survivor etc).
They are rather like eating out, a good experience occasionally, but a bad/unhealthy thing if you start to insist on it.
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Calleva Atrebatum
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# 14058
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
They are rather like eating out, a good experience occasionally, but a bad/unhealthy thing if you start to insist on it.
Wow, such a diplomatic and sensitive response. Was hoping for some controversy.... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
My wife likes to drag me to these events, and wanted to try Salt & Light's Transform next. I'm always akward at these big, loud, largely evangelical conferences, so I made the OP to test the waters to see if there was something similar 'out there', but broadly in the reformed/open Catholic tradition.
But, maybe I should just try Greenbelt or suggest we go on retreat.
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Offence is taken, it is not given.
Posts: 159 | From: Kent | Registered: Aug 2008
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
I haven't been to Greenbelt in years, keep meaning to go back. A few friends are regulars, and I get the impression that at heart it's similar to when I went in the 80s/90s - primarily a music and arts festival, with an underpinning Christian ethos. So very much festival vs. conference. It's a world apart from Spring Harvest, certainly.
I went to Spring Harvest last year, for the first time in many, many years. It was ... interesting. I found it really helpful, but primarily because I got to spend a (short) week away living with a small number of good friends, talking and sharing about Life in the round. I found the sung worship a bit awkward at times; bearing in mind I used to go largely for that, and that playing in contemporary worship bands is something I do a lot, that was a bit of a disconnect. The one thing that really surprised me was the morning teaching sessions, where the chap doing the studies said things from main stage that I would never, ever have expected to hear at SH - it actually gave me a real lift, and counter-balanced the intro monkey who clearly still equated worship with singing a 4-chord song, preferably in G.
I'm a non-con-evo with eclectic tendencies. I reckon in future I'll find my way back to Greenbelt, maybe try a guided retreat, and try to persuade Mrs Snags to take the odd holiday with friends, rather than escape on our own.
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
I've not been to Spring Harvest since 1982, which was the year I also started to attend the Dales (or Wales) Bible Weeks. I stuck with those for a bit, but they soon became very 'in-house' a 'holy convocation' for people who thought too highly of their contribution to the overall scheme of things.
I've not been to a major convention or knees-up since the mid-90s, I don't think ... although I did go to hear Billy Bragg at Greenbelt one year and spent the evening there.
I can't say I miss them.
New Wine seems to have eclipsed Spring Harvest as the charismatic Anglican shindig of choice - and our vicar here seems to want to drag as many people to it each year as he can ... even though some still favour Spring Harvest.
On the 'Higher' side of things, there are retreats and pilgrimages rather than the big ra-ra-ra festivals. There also seem to be specialist conventions of one form or another. I know that the Antiochian Orthodox Deanery here (the 'Angliochians') have an annual Deanery conference at Swanwick - I know, I've attended a day of it.
At the risk of sounding patronising, I'd say that things like Spring Harvest and the now largely defunct restorationist Bible Weeks were fine for when I was 'getting started' as an enthusiastic young charismatic evangelical ... but you'd have to drag me kicking and screaming to one of them now.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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Ramarius
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# 16551
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Posted
For something a bit more eclectic, try this.
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chris stiles
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# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ramarius:
For something a bit more eclectic, try this.
Except that the first two speakers are ones who make the rounds of all the other christian festivals.
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Ramarius
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# 16551
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Ramarius:
For something a bit more eclectic, try this.
Except that the first two speakers are ones who make the rounds of all the other christian festivals.
.....so.....?
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Masha
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# 10098
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Posted
Out of interest Ramarius, why do you say 'eclectic'?
I've had a look and it all looks pretty 'one note' to me. In fact it looks very similar to New Wine with younger leadership.
Am I missing something?!
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chris stiles
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# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ramarius:
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Ramarius:
For something a bit more eclectic, try this.
Except that the first two speakers are ones who make the rounds of all the other christian festivals.
.....so.....?
See above, how eclectic can it be?
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Ramarius
Shipmate
# 16551
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Masha:
Out of interest Ramarius, why do you say 'eclectic'?
I've had a look and it all looks pretty 'one note' to me. In fact it looks very similar to New Wine with younger leadership.
Am I missing something?!
...only if you don't go Masha ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
No - you and Chris are right - New Wine light would have been a better description.
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Masha
Shipmate
# 10098
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Posted
Cheers Ramarius - I doubt I'll be booking in though!
I know lots of people who go to these things. My parish go to New Wine every year, I even went with them a couple of times but found it not to my liking. It seemed to really inspire some of the other people though so fair enough.
My main worry is that people then start cherishing hopes of their parish church looking like NW, or like one of the churches of the 'big leaders'.
This is not possible without their budget but also I wonder if it isn't a weird idea of what local church should be like.
I worry that it all becomes about 'the show' and the cranked up atmosphere - but that's not what real life is like. And it shouldn't be. In local churches we are living life as best we can, with each other and the resources we can pool. I think that's a pretty amazing thing to be trying to do in today's world.
I think it's the 'our church doesn't look like X church and I think it should' that I disagree with. Especially coming from the vicar. We are in a totally different context. We should embrace that not pretend to be something we're not.
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tomsk
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# 15370
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Posted
Calleva said 'My wife likes to drag me to these events, and wanted to try Salt & Light's Transform next.'
Rev's Colin went to Transform Jesus, which is a cross between this and Spring Harvest.
I was at Spring Harvest the same week as you. I think it's good to go with a group. I liked being immersed for a few days. It's the third time I've been. Each time I really felt like I'd been on a journey and taken something away from it.
It also works for Mrs Tomsk and I as there are good groups for mini and micro-tomsk to go in, and rides etc to entertain them (although micro-tomsk cried all the way around a plane ride).
It's quite possible to feel disengaged from these big jamborees though, and if it's not something that floats your boat anyway this is more likely.
One evening in the main celebration had a time of waiting for the Holy Spirit, which quite a lot of people didn't get along with, although many did (Mike Pilavachi preached). Gamaliel would've loved it
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
My background doesn't include these big contemporary evangelical festivals, but I have been to My former minister practically swears by Greenbelt, and he took a group of us down there a couple of years ago.
Greenbelt sees itself as an inclusive, non-judgemental event. There was lots going on, and I enjoyed it. I appreciated the fact that I was able to choose what to do and what to miss. (Churchy events tend not to include much choice.) I chose well, and found that everything I did was interesting to me. It has a rather intellectual bent. Some accuse it of being rather 'white and middle class', which it is.
I can't speak for the more evangelical festivals, but I imagine that they serve as motivational get-togethers. I wouldn't say that Greenbelt was motivational as such. I think our minister used to go to kind of zone out and reflect rather than to psych himself up. He certainly didn't feel any obligation to apply Greenbelt styles of worship or activity to everyday church life.
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Ramarius
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# 16551
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Masha:
Cheers Ramarius - I doubt I'll be booking in though!
I know lots of people who go to these things. My parish go to New Wine every year, I even went with them a couple of times but found it not to my liking. It seemed to really inspire some of the other people though so fair enough.
My main worry is that people then start cherishing hopes of their parish church looking like NW, or like one of the churches of the 'big leaders'.
This is not possible without their budget but also I wonder if it isn't a weird idea of what local church should be like.
I worry that it all becomes about 'the show' and the cranked up atmosphere - but that's not what real life is like. And it shouldn't be. In local churches we are living life as best we can, with each other and the resources we can pool. I think that's a pretty amazing thing to be trying to do in today's world.
I think it's the 'our church doesn't look like X church and I think it should' that I disagree with. Especially coming from the vicar. We are in a totally different context. We should embrace that not pretend to be something we're not.
Part of what I like about Grapevine is that they involve a lot of local speakers who make the point that 'this isn't local church - it's a celebration' but also illustrate how you can take the good teaching (and experince) of something like Grapevine and contextualise it locally. Having said that, all the risks you highlight certainly need thinking through, preferably (if you go as a church) before you go.
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Ramarius
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# 16551
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Posted
@Masha - forgot to say to your "In local churches we are living life as best we can, with each other and the resources we can pool. I think that's a pretty amazing thing to be trying to do in today's world."
Yes, absolutely - whilst seeing what other resources we can tap into we should certainly celebrate the dedication and energy that goes into the witness of local congregations week by week.
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I've not been to Spring Harvest since 1982 ..
Ah, so you heard Tony Campolo's famous swear. Did it change your life? (Did me a lot of good, that year. I was vomiting the wider excesses of conevo-ism out of my system and a large slice of passionate social justice ministry hit the spot).
Mind you, I think SH was a lot more rebellious in those far off days at Pontins Prestatyn. Seems very respectable now - or the last time we went.
Soul Survivor was never respectable. You just had to inspect the showers to work that out.
[ 14. April 2012, 09:54: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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TonyinOxford
Apprentice
# 12657
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Posted
There's also a lot on offer from various Christian communities. I've been going to Iona for about 16 years -- all kinds of alternative and thoughtful, involving worship, and either time to roam about on the Isle or to engage with think/talk groups, depending on the kind of week you choose. The idea of 'building community' by working, cooking, eating, playing ... drinking, even ... with Christians from all kinds of traditions is another way to practice the Gospel. We went with a parish group a couple of years ago and met a group of adults and quite disabled youngsters from the North West who were working on becoming part of L'Arche community. It was a really amazing experience, if a bit scary to start with.
I've never been there but there's the Othona Community in Dorset and in Bradwell on Sea, with a more inter- or multi-faith perspective. Or if you want to stay closer to evo roots there's Lee Abbey too -- but also outside my experience.
(Ramarius' suggestion looks a bit bloke-heavy to me!! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) )
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Tony
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Festivals? I would rather stick pins in my eyes.
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
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Jolly Jape
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# 3296
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Masha
My main worry is that people then start cherishing hopes of their parish church looking like NW, or like one of the churches of the 'big leaders'.
This is not possible without their budget but also I wonder if it isn't a weird idea of what local church should be like.
In fairness, the churches of the "big leaders" probably did not set out intentionally to become what they later became. It's just something that happened to them in the process of living out the insights which they received. The big profile and the big budgets, for better or for worse, came following on.
Personally, I've been to Spring Harvest twice, and my impression of it was pretty negative. It's mega-expensive, so the less wealthy are pretty well excluded, and I found the tenor to be somewhat moralistic. Coming to it after the Wimber conferences, it seemed much less about Christ and much more about cultural evangelicalism. But things may have changed in the last 15 years.
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
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chris stiles
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# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ramarius:
Part of what I like about Grapevine is that they involve a lot of local speakers who make the point that 'this isn't local church - it's a celebration'
But that's partly because it's actually a fairly regional festival with the majority of participants from a regional church network (Groundlevel/New Life).
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
In fairness, the churches of the "big leaders" probably did not set out intentionally to become what they later became. It's just something that happened to them in the process of living out the insights which they received.
Or some kind of post-facto explanation of survivor bias ..
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greenhouse
Shipmate
# 4027
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Calleva Atrebatum:
I was there. And was, I think, a little underwhelmed* by the whole experience (can I say something like this in Purg? That doesn't count as Hellish, does it?!)
I don't want to start a winge about how they largely ignored Holy Week and Easter Sunday (well, actually I do, but we'll pretend I don't).
What I'm really interested in is what your thoughts are on these big Christian festivals - as a young con evo I loved Soul Survivor, but couldn't imagine liking it now. So, are they a force for good in the church, a decadance, an irrelevance? And are there Roman Catholic/Anglocathlic and liberal equivalents... I mean, I've heard of Greenbelt, that's a fairly liberal one, isn't it? But I've never been. Or do traditional open Catholic Anglicans or liberal Roman Catholics prefer going on retreat to this sort of thing?
*except the bit where a certain Bishop there said he was on Ship. That bit was excellent.
I was there the same week as you I guess - Minehead week 2. I've been going to Spring Harvest on and off for around 15 years now, along with occasional trips to Greenbelt and taking groups to Soul Survivor.
Plus points of SH for me:
- The opportunity to gather in a big group of Christians. We come from a small church, to worship in a big setting once a year is enjoyable.
- No pressure. As part of a local church there's rarely a Sunday we're not involved somehow. SH gives us chance to worship, to spend time with God and not doing the Sunday school/creche/whatever.
- Good teaching. You get to hear excellent speakers and well prepared Bible teaching, a higher standard than you would get in a local church.
- A holiday environment. It's not just 'God-stuff', as people who actively like Butlins the location is a plus for us
- Childcare. We have a young child, SH provide childcare so we can have
- Moderate evangelical focus, with a slight Charismatic leaning. Which is pretty much where we are. It avoids dogmatism and is probably in the 'open evangelical' field.
Negative:
- Very middle class.
- Too much selling of their own products
- Could still do with a much broader outlook.
Obviously we see more positives than negatives, else we wouldn't keep going!
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
@Barnabas ... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Yes, I was there and I remember Compolo's famous 'swear'.
Did it change my life? Not one jot.
I was pretty new to evangelicalism at the time and so was encouraged by Compolo's input. There was a more radical social 'edge' to Spring Harvest at that time and I fondly imagined that this would catch on within the UK con-evo and charismatic evo scene as a whole.
As things turned out, this element all but disappeared in favour of zoning-out charismatic revivalism and the fond imaginings of the restorationists ...
Mercifully, it didn't disappear entirely and I still see some echoes of it around in some circles. But nowhere near enough.
I'm sure these festivals and so on have their place, but as I'm fond of saying, and as I have probably said before on these Boards:
'It doesn't matter how great or whoopy a time you had at the Festival or convention, you've still got to get up for work on a Monday morning, you've still got to wash your socks, and, once you've been to the lavatory, you've still got to wipe your arse.'
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I got a laugh out of Chorister a few threads ago, Gamaliel, by recalling one of my favourite quotes from a Spring Harvest preacher. Not quite on the "wipe your arse" level, but heading that way.
From Steve Gaukroger
"Folks in your church will recognise the glaze in your eyes and the somewhat strange spiritual floatiness, and will hope you will return to normal soon. You may explain that "we've been to the mountaintop". No you haven't. Get real! You've been to Butlins."
Mind you, arse-wiping used to be no joke while you were actually at Soul Survivor. Unless you were wise enough to bring your own paper - or save yourself for the nearest Tescos. (Preens at this point).
Pilavaci used to observe that after 3 days at Soul Survivor, the average attender smelled, at best, like a damp dog. Normally a one liner in his prophetic talk about Abba (those who have ears to hear will know what I'm talking about.)
[ 14. April 2012, 13:33: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I was pretty new to evangelicalism at the time and so was encouraged by Compolo's input. There was a more radical social 'edge' to Spring Harvest at that time and I fondly imagined that this would catch on within the UK con-evo and charismatic evo scene as a whole.
I suspect that this is partly because the people interested in such things got their own events/festivals.
Which in a way is the way with Christian festivals - they've become more common, more affordable but also more homogeneous. In so far as that is the case, they tend to immerse people deeper in their own particular christian-circles, as opposed to exposing them to other circles.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
I should edit my above post:
'My background doesn't include these big contemporary evangelical festivals, but I have been to Greenbelt. My former minister practically swears by Greenbelt, and he took a group of us down there a couple of years ago.'
Chris styles, can you explain how a more affordable event becomes more homogenous? Surely, it should attract a wider range of people if it's a bit cheaper? Shouldn't these events now be less dominated by a middle class ethos, perhaps be more ethnically mixed, and if they're more common, presumably they should attract more people from different denominations?
Or is the problem that ecumenicalism and greater popularity often water down diversity and distinctiveness sooner or later?
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Ramarius
Shipmate
# 16551
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Ramarius:
Part of what I like about Grapevine is that they involve a lot of local speakers who make the point that 'this isn't local church - it's a celebration'
But that's partly because it's actually a fairly regional festival with the majority of participants from a regional church network (Groundlevel/New Life).
But that's my point - this is a deliberate choice by the organisers. Grapevine could fill its teaching and seminar slots with international 'celebrity' speakers if it wanted to. Makes a deliberate choice to mix up some international friendships with local church people.
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Well, good for Grapevine ... it still looks pretty homogeneised to me though ... the 'usual suspects' as the key-note speakers.
I think that's the issue I have with a lot of these conventions. You know pretty much what you're going to get. After only one or two years of attending the restorationist Bible Weeks it became pretty apparent what you were going to get at them from there on in.
I expect I'd be able to predict with some degree of accuracy what the main emphases are likely to be at the next New Wine or the next Let's-Have-A-Charismatic-Knees-Up festival of whatever provenance.
Adrian Plass nailed it with his Let God Break Forth With Songs of Harvest Triumph or whatever-it-was, an accurate amalgam of every Christian festival that existed in the UK at the time.
If I really thought I'd be hearing something, new, distinctive and genuinely 'prophetic' then I might get myself along to one of these things. The fact is, I know I won't ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
@SvitlanaV2 - I think the point that Chris Stiles is making is that these events are intended to reinforce pre-existing attitudes and stances.
At one point the restorationist Bible Weeks, to give an example I'm familiar with, acting as something of a shop-window, a show-case if you like, to lure visiting church groups and individuals 'into relationship' - which was the code for getting them to submit to the authority of your particular 'apostle'.
After a while, they changed tack, mainly because some of the groups and individuals recruited to the cause that way proved troublesome and wouldn't comply.
So, lo and behold, they became a 'holy convocation' for those already committed to the vision, as it were. And as such they ended up becoming very narrow in scope and very much the same-old/same-old without realising that was what was happening ... lots of ra-ra-ra and revivalistic promises that never materialised.
NFIs Stoneleigh Bible Weeks did seem to buck this trend for a while - I never went but they did become pretty large-scale events. It wouldn't be for me to say whether or not they'd served their purpose and needed to be folded up or whether they, too, ran out of steam in the end ...
Looking back, in the early 1980s these kind of events often created a disatisfaction with the status quo back at people's more 'conventional' parish churches or non-conformist chapels ... leading, in many cases, to defections to the newer and ostensibly more exciting independent charismatic networks or else experiments in starting again from scratch.
Now, though, they appear to have become linked to various 'power-houses' such as the New Wine ambit and seek to link people into networks and so-on alongside their existing affiliations.
I can certainly see a role for them - even though I'm pretty sure I'd know what to expect from the bulk of them and wouldn't expect them to be offering anything I've not before.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Chris styles, can you explain how a more affordable event becomes more homogenous? Surely, it should attract a wider range of people if it's a bit cheaper?
The two issues are somewhat separated - conferences of this sort have become more affordable to organise so more church groups are tempted to start their own rather than lending their energies to some existing effort which leads to them become more homogeneous. They have also become somewhat more affordable for attendees which can only be a good thing though they are still a stretch for many people who aren't 'middle income' or are in the lower brackets of it.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Chris stiles and Gamaliel
Thanks for that. Very interesting. I don't think any of these events would be promoted in a typical Methodist circuit, and many of the laity wouldn't even have heard of them.
Some of the ex-evangelicals or recovering charismatics here ought to give Greenbelt a try. I think it would be right up your street!
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
Lots of our family have been to Soul Survivor, Greenbelt, Spring Harvest, New Wine, and have enjoyed them all, not experienced any being awful. Some are more expensive, some are camping, some are a whole week etc. That is some of the reasons to choose one of them.
And this time I manged to delete it and get the spelling correct!
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
Two friends of mine are at Spring Harvest.This is their first visit. They invited me to go with them, and I agreed.
I then had second thoughts and pulled out.
I have attended about 8 Spring Harvests, with Youth Groups, but although the kida enjoyed it, I never found it particularly challenging or helpful.
I thought my rather cynical attitude might be a bit of a downer for my friends. I am looking forward to hearing their reaction. They are leaders in a middle of the road Anglican Church, and this is their first ever teaching event/conference/thingy.
Now Greenbelt- that is a different story. I love Greenbelt. It is so eclectic, and a real challenge. Such a huge mix of people. Both as speakers and attending.
The only let down is the Sunday Service. In trying to cater for such a mix of people, they seem to lose any real sense of God or Communion. It might work if they went for something more conventional, and involving.
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Still missing the gator
Posts: 2542 | From: LaLa Land | Registered: Apr 2006
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
Which just shows, Daisymay, that it all depends on where you're coming from.
'One man's fish is another man's poisson.'
I would have hated Greenbelt at one time, but I'm sure I'd enjoy it now. Equally, I'd have probably have loved New Wine at one time but I'm sure I'd hate it now.
Spring Harvest? I could probably take or leave that.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
NFIs Stoneleigh Bible Weeks did seem to buck this trend for a while - I never went but they did become pretty large-scale events. It wouldn't be for me to say whether or not they'd served their purpose and needed to be folded up or whether they, too, ran out of steam in the end ...
I was beginning to think nobody would mention them!
After several teenage years of almost going to Greenbelt in the late 70s, finally went to the very first Ichthus Revival Camp in 1992 and then did Stoneleigh every year from 1993 to its final year in 2001, working in the site office in the final year.
Stoneleigh was a central part of our family's annual trip to the UK during the years when our kids were growing up. As the years went by we also dragged a fair chunk of our church along.
Regular readers will be aware of my current conviction that NFI and restorationism are a complete chimera, but as a family we all have fond memories of the Bible Weeks. It was encouraging (coming from a country with so few protestants) to see so many together in one place at a well-organised event (including big children's meetings) and fun to go camping as a church and have a lot more time to have fellowship together than back home.
It was so far removed both culturally and geographically from our local scene that I don't think there was much danger of it creating unrealistic expectations of day-to-day church and christian life.
I was in the leaders' meeting at which, as far as I can tell, it was decided, ostensibly via prophecy, to halt Stoneleigh and shift to the Brighton conference leaders' format. My reading of the situation is that NF was getting a sense that it had overstayed its welcome at the NAC (the decision came just as permission to use the site in 2002 had been pretty much wrested from the management) and it also wanted to concentrate its focus on leadership.
The change from something that could appeal to whole families to a leadership conference with a youth conference bolted onto the side (essentially meaning that young people away from their family environment were exposed only to church leaders as a model for their future) was something I had misgivings about, and the move coincided with the beginning of the end for me and NFI. I was first overwhelmed by a sense of dissociation sitting on Brighton beach in 2003 when I should have been in one of those meetings.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Saul the Apostle
Shipmate
# 13808
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Posted
I have done a few of them and hold a view that in their time they could be useful.
At one time we went to a charismatic church which was linked to some sort of outfit or other (was it Gerald Coates?) and they had a conference in North Wales in April (this was the early 1990s), called ''Breaking The Mould'' - due to the bitter weather and poor chalet construction it was quickly renamed or nicknamed: ''Braving The Cold''.
This one....
http://www.one-event.org.uk/speakers.html
More of the same old same old really. Don't you think?
I remember Jeff Lucas before he was ''big'' on the evangelical celeb circuit. He attended, as a guest speaker an old youth centre where the church I then attended met, in a small South Coast town. He could tell a good story - he was , as all humourists are, an astute observer of the human condition.
I also quite liked his style when he was at Spring Harvest some years later and was getting proud and felt he was a somebody; he pricked his own bubble as the penny sank in that he was quite a well known speaker, but then reflected he was ''famous at Butlins'' for a day or two.
The self deprecation was welcome and genuinely expressed as a lot of these shindigs go big on the speaker and personality. He seemed able to see beyond that razzle dazzle.
Sadly ''ONE 2012'' seems dull and predictable once you get behind the contemporary presentation. The speaker line up are the ''usual suspects'' to an extent.
It sort of seems to be another charismatic - evangelical shbang - but I may be wrong!
Saul the Apostle
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"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."
Posts: 1772 | From: unsure | Registered: Jun 2008
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Ramarius
Shipmate
# 16551
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Posted
Only did Spring Harvest once. It was the first Bible week the church I was in at the time ever went to. Some asked, in a slightly concerned way, "Is it intense?" We reassure her it was probably quite easy going on the whole.
"No no" she said "Is it in tents(!)." I hate camping.....
Posts: 950 | From: Virtually anywhere | Registered: Jul 2011
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Is it just me? But I tend to think that these things, for all the value that they undoubtedly bring, have a realistic shelf-life of three to five years at best.
They're masterpieces of organisation to a great extent, but once you delve beneath the surface of the razzle-dazzle the gloss begins to dissipate. There's a pressure on the speakers to 'entertain' or to bring the whizz-bang-crash-bang-wallop 'word' ... there're a bit like Party-political conferences in that respect. Remember Kinnock embarrassing himself at the Labour Party conference where he promised 'revival' as it were?
They can be good 'family times' and fellowship times and so on but there ain't really an awful lot of depth to the preaching and the presentation.
I can think of a family here who became involved with our local evangelical/mildly charismatic Anglican parish after years in MOR Anglicanism. They went to New Wine at the vicar's invitation and were blown away by it the first year. Their son was said to have had an 'experience' of some kind ... but this soon wore off in the cold light of day.
They went the second year and started to think, 'Hang on ... some of this stuff seems to be happening on cue ...'
They went a third time and thought, 'Nah, this isn't for us anymore, we've heard and seen it all before ...'
They're in their 40s/early 50s so it probably took them a shorter time to get to the bottom of it all than people in their teens and 20s. It took me a lot longer to realise that it wasn't long before you touched bottom if you dived into the pond expecting it to be deep ...
I would contend that all these Bible Weeks and conventions had effectively said everything they had to say within the first five years of their commencing operations - and from that point on they simply tend to recycle and repackage ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I would contend that all these Bible Weeks and conventions had effectively said everything they had to say within the first five years of their commencing operations - and from that point on they simply tend to recycle and repackage ...
and this tendency increases as they become ever more homogeneous. The direction is set once, and the push is always for more of the same, or the same as last year - turned up to 11.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Ramarius
Shipmate
# 16551
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Posted
If you're interested in exploring opportunities for world mission, you could check out Go2012 .
Posts: 950 | From: Virtually anywhere | Registered: Jul 2011
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Gosh, this has really grown since my wife and I were members of WEC International in the late 70s/early 80s. Then it was a one-day event on Easter Monday.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I would contend that all these Bible Weeks and conventions had effectively said everything they had to say within the first five years of their commencing operations - and from that point on they simply tend to recycle and repackage ...
and this tendency increases as they become ever more homogeneous. The direction is set once, and the push is always for more of the same, or the same as last year - turned up to 11.
Maybe the idea is to attract a good proportion of new people each time, not the same people going to the same event, for 20 years in a row?
(Having said that, we expect people to attend church week after week without expectation of receiving an original message each time....)
I wouldn't want to attend the same Christian festival every single year, but I suppose it's a question of what one's trying to achieve by attending. Some people will be going for some time out rather than for originality or novelty.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
We have just got back from Spring Harvest, so this thread interests me.
My expectations this year were pretty low to be honest. This was not because of the standard of teaching but because I have 2 small children and didn't think I would get to anything. And I didn't. We attended all age worship twice a day and watched the main meeting on tv in our apartment once or twice.
It was brilliant. All age worship was done well (which suprised me to be honest). The kids loved it. We had a great holiday in a lovely environment.
I think the event is in some ways broader than it used to be, with more choice of evening celebrations (inc one liturgy based one) and a variety of seminars. Maybe it's a compliment to my current church that I didn't go feeling like I needed to learn how to solve all the worlds problems in 5 days!
The bookshop and exhibition seemed less broad than in previous years which was a shame but overall I was impressed.
It feels very different to Soul Survivor and New Wine - less of a charismatic emphasis and broader base. More expensive, but they do provide bursaries for those who struggle, and considering the butlins facilities are available it isn't hugely overpriced.
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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Saul the Apostle
Shipmate
# 13808
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Posted
Gamaliel said: quote:
They're masterpieces of organisation to a great extent, but once you delve beneath the surface of the razzle-dazzle the gloss begins to dissipate. There's a pressure on the speakers to 'entertain' or to bring the whizz-bang-crash-bang-wallop 'word' ... there're a bit like Party-political conferences in that respect. Remember Kinnock embarrassing himself at the Labour Party conference where he promised 'revival' as it were?
Yes, and maybe they are the 'Party Conferences' of the faith community? I don't attend any these days, I have been to Spring H. a few times.
The other one I am involved with currently, is a one day thing, I just volunteer for the the day and do a stewarding or similar role. So if you see Saul the apostle walking around do say ''Hi'' !
This is the ''Big Church Day Out'', this is held in a lovely country pile near Steyning West Sussex and I've volunteered there for 3 of it's last 4 years. So it's a new kid on the block really, the geezer organising it is Tim Jupp late of Delerious the Christian rock band.
I think it's a nice day out for faith communities and they get folk from all over turning up. One thing is it's good to see some of the London churches coming down and enjoying themselves and it's seems an eclectic mix of all sorts really. More large on the bands / music I'd say.
http://www.bigchurchdayout.com/
This is at Wiston House owned by the Goring family. Now to be fair this is more , what I'd describe as a celebration event, and it's a right old knees up, with all sorts going on. Nice atmosphere.
It's not really a teaching event like say Spring Harvest. So in one sense you couldn't compare it to New Wine or S.H. - IMHO.
Saul the Apostle
[ 15. April 2012, 16:09: Message edited by: Saul the Apostle ]
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"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."
Posts: 1772 | From: unsure | Registered: Jun 2008
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greenhouse
Shipmate
# 4027
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I would contend that all these Bible Weeks and conventions had effectively said everything they had to say within the first five years of their commencing operations - and from that point on they simply tend to recycle and repackage ...
You seem to be assuming that the conventions only exist to 'say' a particular message. I don't see that this is the case; they generally have a much broader purpose. True they may each have their own style, but thats entirely understandable.
Posts: 94 | From: North West | Registered: Jan 2003
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Masha
Shipmate
# 10098
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Posted
quote:
Posted by greenhouse: You seem to be assuming that the conventions only exist to 'say' a particular message. I don't see that this is the case; they generally have a much broader purpose. True they may each have their own style, but thats entirely understandable.
I'm going to ask the obvious.
What do you see as their broader purpose greenhouse?
Posts: 308 | Registered: Aug 2005
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greenhouse
Shipmate
# 4027
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Posted
To quote from Spring Harvests own strapline "Spring Harvest exists to create opportunities for you to encounter God, be changed by that encounter and go out and change the world."
This is more than passing on a particular message - in fact, I'm not sure what their 'message' would be. This year I heard a variety of speakers with a variety of viewpoints on a variety of topics. I accept that it's all coming from an evangelical viewpoint, but it doesn't pretend to be anything else.
Posts: 94 | From: North West | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Ok, fair points, Greenhouse, but I still contend that it doesn't take very long to get to the 'bottom' of these events. They will only take you so far.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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