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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: All Souls' Day
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Graven Image
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# 8755
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Posted
Does any church have a service for All Soul's Day? It seems to me that in my area that All Soul's is now lumped into All Saint's and celebrated as one.
[offered up the title apostrophe error for the souls in purgatory]
[ 29. October 2012, 23:41: Message edited by: seasick ]
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Oblatus
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# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Graven Image:
Does any church have a service for All Soul's Day? It seems to me that in my area that All Soul's is now lumped into All Saint's and celebrated as one.
Definitely separate here. Solemn Requiem Friday evening (on All Souls' Day). Unbleached candles, catafalque, black vestments, reduced incense, no blessing of the water at the offertory...the usual alterations. Reading of the names of the departed submitted by parishioners.
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
Thankfully, we do. They are, after all, for different things.
All Saints' is to celebrate the whole company of heaven, which is more populated than the Kalendar would have us assume.
All Souls', on the other hand, is for us to pray for our dearly beloved departed whom, we hope, will one day join the whole company of heaven.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Definitely separate here. Solemn Requiem Friday evening (on All Souls' Day). Unbleached candles, catafalque, black vestments, reduced incense, no blessing of the water at the offertory...the usual alterations. Reading of the names of the departed submitted by parishioners.
How very trad. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) We wear black and pray, by name, for those for whom we've been asked to pray but, otherwise, the ceremonial is the same.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Ceremoniar
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# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Graven Image:
Does any church have a service for All Soul's Day? It seems to me that in my area that All Soul's is now lumped into All Saint's and celebrated as one.
Definitely separate here. Solemn Requiem Friday evening (on All Souls' Day). Unbleached candles, catafalque, black vestments, reduced incense, no blessing of the water at the offertory...the usual alterations. Reading of the names of the departed submitted by parishioners.
Same here. Both priests celebrate three Masses each on that day, in accordance with the missal.
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Forthview
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# 12376
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Posted
The three Masses on All Souls' day have virtually died out (no pun intended).
The custom of each priest celebrating three Masses on All Souls'day was a special 'privilege' for Spanish priests since medieval times,but extended to the Universal Church during or just after World War I.
Again the three Masses were very poular during my childhood in Scotland but it was a custom which was virtually unknown in Austria.
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Liturgylover
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# 15711
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Graven Image:
Does any church have a service for All Soul's Day? It seems to me that in my area that All Soul's is now lumped into All Saint's and celebrated as one.
[offered up the title apostrophe error for the souls in purgatory]
I have never heard of them being lumped together in one service as you describe, but there seems to be considerable variance here on which days they are celebrated on. Most seem to observe each feast on its proper day, while others transfer to the Sunday (with All Souls in the evening) and even to the Monday!
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Angloid
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# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Thankfully, we do. They are, after all, for different things.
All Saints' is to celebrate the whole company of heaven, which is more populated than the Kalendar would have us assume.
All Souls', on the other hand, is for us to pray for our dearly beloved departed whom, we hope, will one day join the whole company of heaven.
Thurible
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
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Angloid
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# 159
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Posted
[Sorry about the above: clicked the wrong button!]
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Thankfully, we do. They are, after all, for different things.
All Saints' is to celebrate the whole company of heaven, which is more populated than the Kalendar would have us assume.
All Souls', on the other hand, is for us to pray for our dearly beloved departed whom, we hope, will one day join the whole company of heaven.
Thurible
If I may inject a Purgatorial tangent (in more ways than one). Perhaps it's just my woolly Anglicanism, but I would prefer to say they are two aspects of the same thing. Maybe there are saints in heaven who have attained perfection and so do not need our prayers; I'm sure there are many departed souls who need a hell of a lot of spiritual boosting to get them to heaven. But we are not really in a position to say who is in which category, and I'm sure that the vast majority of the departed are praying for us as, or probably more, fervently than we are for them.
So All Saints should be much more than an honours parade of the great and the good... it should be a time for celebrating the glory of God in the lives of those we have known as well as in the billions of unknown and insignificant people who nevertheless were and are children of God. All Souls is a more sombre reflection of their, and our, need for judgement, and a celebration of God's mercy. Both have their place, but we can't usurp God's role of separating the sheep from the goats.
[ 30. October 2012, 15:02: Message edited by: Angloid ]
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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Ceremoniar
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# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
The three Masses on All Souls' day have virtually died out (no pun intended).
The custom of each priest celebrating three Masses on All Souls'day was a special 'privilege' for Spanish priests since medieval times,but extended to the Universal Church during or just after World War I.
Again the three Masses were very poular during my childhood in Scotland but it was a custom which was virtually unknown in Austria.
Sorry, but you are incorrect. The custom originated in the late middle ages, and the three Masses were included in the 1570 missal. It appears in my 1839 altar missal.
I also don't know why you would say the custom is dying. In the three dioceses in which I have lived, it is commonplace, both in the OF and EF.
[ 30. October 2012, 15:05: Message edited by: Ceremoniar ]
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venbede
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# 16669
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Posted
I find they are quite different things. I've noticed in some All Souls services that they are meant to be only remembering people who were nice to us.
The departed I really need to pray for are those who were bastards, like my prep school headmaster.
I can remember hearing he was dead and immediately saying matter of factly I would like to dance on his grave.
I'm not well enough to get to mass that day this year, but I usually find it an immensely healing experience. It is practicing going to funerals and coming to terms with death in a safe environment.
All Saints never inspires me - it's a bit so-whatish. I try to remember it is the fifth glorious mystery of the rosary. Of course it is the whole company of heaven and not just officially recognised individuals (who have their own day anyway).
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Forthview
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# 12376
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Posted
Sorry about that.I should have perhaps said 'here in Scotland'
I accept what you have to say about the three Masses.My oldest English language Missal only goes back to the 1920s.A French Missal from 1917 mentions the three Masses of All Souls'day.But my oldest German Missal from 1923 says that in 1915 Pope Benedict XV allowed each priest to say Mass three times on All Souls'day - a privilege which had been accorded to Spanish priests at the beginning of the 16th century.
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
All Saints' Day - 730pm Mass (with hymns and incense) celebrating the Church Triumphant. Best white vestments. I don't expect we'll get more than 10 in the congo, as a number of those who would normally attend are away (it's half-term week).
All Souls' Day - 930am Franciscan Morning Prayer
Saturday 3rd - 930am All Souls' Mass (with hymns and incense) - names of parishioners, families, friends etc. read out and prayed for. Black chasuble (I expect).
We are transferring All Souls to our usual Saturday morning slot, coz we know we'll get a congregation.......
Ian J.
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Arethosemyfeet
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# 17047
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Posted
No such luck out here, I doubt we'll hear mention of All Saints, never mind All Souls. At the last church I spent a lot of time in, it was the custom to invite the families of those who had had a funeral in church in the last year, and for their names and any others submitted to be read out.
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Emendator Liturgia
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# 17245
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Posted
Originally posted by venbede:
The departed I really need to pray for are those who were bastards, like my prep school headmaster.
I can remember hearing he was dead and immediately saying matter of factly I would like to dance on his grave.
I sure hope the departed had not chosen to be buried at sea!
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Snackristan
Apprentice
# 14051
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Posted
I keep them as separate commemorations. I've got 1st and 2nd Vespers and Matins on the 31st/1st, Requiem mass for all souls' day on the 2nd, and All Saints' Sunday. That seems to be common for prayer book catholics in the Episcopal Church.
-snacky
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Olaf
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# 11804
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Posted
We (ELCA mainline Lutherans in the US, brethren to TEC) lump them together. We don't even have Nov. 2 listed as anything special on our calendar.
Strangely enough, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, America's largest conservative Lutheran body, does have "Commemoration of All Faithful Departed" on Nov. 2, even though doctrinally, few LCMS people would tend to acknowledge saints at all, let alone do anything that might come close to praying for the departed. A little too close to popish purgatorial talk and all...
Of the two denoms, it is the ELCA who says such things as "Rest eternal, grant them, Lord" in the funeral liturgy, and yet the ELCA doesn't have anything special for Nov. 2.
Apparently we had a Catholic-minded person on the funeral liturgy committee, and not on the calendar committee; and the LCMS had vice versa. It happens.
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Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
# 12744
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Posted
All Saints is our patronal, so was (as is common in these parts) marked on Sunday just gone. When I was away, unfortunately, so I missed the jazz setting of the mass.
All souls will be marked on the eve with Mass. Mozart's Requiem and, in this case, I am going.
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
Every year on the Eve or the Day, with a full sung Requiem setting (Faure, de Victoria, Rutter ...), clouds of incense, and names submitted by the parish/worshippers being read out from the altar. It's one of our best-attended services. Some are, no doubt, interested in a free concert (last year's flyer didn't make any mention of its being an actual church service, I noted ...), but others are definitely there to reflect.
Last year we had black vestments and a catafalque, making us, no doubt, the envy of the Ship's Tat Queens.
We do All Saints both on the day at a midday Low Mass and on Sunday.
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
We're observing All Saints on Sunday, and for a variety of reasons shall observe All Souls as a vigil mass tomorrow evening. Rather than read out a list, the names of those being remembered are in a book which will be placed on the altar. We also go forward to place flowers on the altar - just simple flowers, cut from the garden, not fancy arrangements.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Ceremoniar
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# 13596
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Posted
I must admit to being somewhat taken aback to read that some shacks are actually celebrating All Souls on the evening of All Saints. All Souls, not being a solemnity/first class feast, do not have a vigil. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
Alas, sometimes correct liturgical observance needs to give way to practicalities. If you have an already established weekday/night service close to the right day, it makes some sense to utilise it (thereby edifying the faithful who might not attend on the correct day, IYSWIM). Not a perfect solution, but it ain't a perfect world.
I am told that, in the last days of our not-at-all-lamented previous priest, the congregation at the All Saints Day Sung Mass consisted of Father, his wife, our Devoted Old Gentleman (every parish should have one), and the sacristan.......mind you, the congregation at Mass on the following Sunday wasn't much larger......
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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PD
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# 12436
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Posted
We had Low Mass this morning for All Saints and in theory there will be a sung Mass this evening, but at the side altar as the high altar has already been changed for tomorrow. Absolution of the Dead will close Mass tomorrow, but the Mass itself is a Low Mass.
PD
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Anglican_Brat
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# 12349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
I must admit to being somewhat taken aback to read that some shacks are actually celebrating All Souls on the evening of All Saints. All Souls, not being a solemnity/first class feast, do not have a vigil.
Well you can think of the liturgical rationale. Shall we celebrate the Church triumphant before the Church in suffering? Or shall we celebrate the suffering first and the joy afterwards, knowing that those in the Church suffering will eventually join the Church triumphant?
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
We have a very low-key remembrance service for the departed (loved ones rather than All Saints). It's not entirely within the usual tradition of the Church of Ireland folk here, but we'll get a little crowd out wanting to light a candle for their loved ones, or at least putting their names onto a list to be remembered aloud during the service.
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PD
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# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
I must admit to being somewhat taken aback to read that some shacks are actually celebrating All Souls on the evening of All Saints. All Souls, not being a solemnity/first class feast, do not have a vigil.
This week actually came out right without a lot of help from me.
Sunday was Sts Simon and Jude. Trinity 21 got bumped to Wednesday as the American BCP has not Vigil of All Saints. All Saints was therefore an extra, as will be the Commemoration of the Faithful Departed tomorrow. The numbers attending on All Saints and All Souls, when they do not fall on Sunday or Wednesday, are not great, but the former is 'of obligation' in our diocese and the other is sort of popular with a 'certain clientelle.'
PD
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
I must admit to being somewhat taken aback to read that some shacks are actually celebrating All Souls on the evening of All Saints. All Souls, not being a solemnity/first class feast, do not have a vigil.
We had our service last night, the evening on All Saints (not of All Saints) as moving and supportive as always. Numbers down on previous years, but as it was the third service for the day, that is not surprising. It was far better for the pastoral care of the parish that what happened, happened.
(BTW, I did not suggest that it was a vigil, but as a vigil. And Emli did not say that the Presentation was not observed here, but that Candlemas, as that, was not - and explained.)
[ 02. November 2012, 08:22: Message edited by: Gee D ]
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Devils Advocate
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# 16484
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Posted
We will be having a Sung Requiem Mass at 7-30 this evening
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"Oh I have wrought much evil with my spells"
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
Well, five of us gathered for the Holy Sacrifice at 8 this morning. Disappointing turnout but nice service. (Masses also at 10 and 12.30.)
Black vestments, unbleached candles, modern ceremonial (eastward facing). CW Prayer A (trad language) with propers borrowed from the Missal.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Ceremoniar
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# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
Well you can think of the liturgical rationale. Shall we celebrate the Church triumphant before the Church in suffering? Or shall we celebrate the suffering first and the joy afterwards, knowing that those in the Church suffering will eventually join the Church triumphant?
I think that we should celebrate them in the order that the Church has for over a millenium, regardless of one's own preferences or rationales.
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
BTW, I did not suggest that it was a vigil, but as a vigil.
I am not sure what the difference is there. My point was that All Souls does not have a vigil, and All Saints has Evening Prayer I and II, which would preclude anticipating something that is not even a feast.
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
And Emli did not say that the Presentation was not observed here, but that Candlemas, as that, was not - and explained.
Again, not sure what this means. Perhaps you mean that there is no provision for the proper liturgy of the day, i.e., the blessing and procession of candles in your BCP? This is not in the American BCP, either, but it is in Lesser Feasts and Fasts or similar. Perhaps it is in some other resource there?
I generally have heard the terms Candlemas and Presentation used interchangeably, both as names for the day (such as Nativity and Christmas). This is how Forescue and Ritual Notes both use it. It was in that context that I was surprised to read of no Candlemas on the kalendar. I apologize if I missed anything that would have clarified this.
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georgiaboy
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# 11294
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Posted
Here at our lil traddy shack in the Low Country:
All Saints Day: 8 am Low Mass; 630 pm High Mass (not very well attended) sol procession w/ 'For All the Saints' choir sang Bainton's 'And I Saw a New Heaven'
All Souls Day: 8 am Low Mass; noon Low Mass, both with black vestments and longish list of the departed to be remembered (first names only, and this being the American South we had Muffy, Bobo, and other endearments - no Bubba this year, though.
Celebrant today wore a VERY pre-Vat2 black fiddleback chaz. Wonder where he got that?
Sunday will the 'in the Octave of All Saints' per the TEC Prayer Book rubrics, but we'll use the alternate set of readings. One of the hymns during communion is to be 'I Sing a Song of the Saints of God' - we just can't seem to bury that one - I've threatened to do the accompanying motions!
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Sorry, I did not mean to confuse anyone, but "as a vigil" or "like a vigil" have the same meaning for me, denoting a simile.
No blessing of candles in APBA unless it's really tucked away somewhere, but Emli's better on that than I am. What's important for me is that the Infant Jesus is taken to the Temple, Simeon sees Him, recognises Him as the Messiah, and through his faith is saved. Then this salvation is balanced by that of the Good Thief.
[ 03. November 2012, 01:19: Message edited by: Gee D ]
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
Since Lutherans do not accept the concept of purgatory and would argue all believers are in God's company now, All Souls has virtually disappeared in our lectionary. Most Lutheran congregations will be celebrating All Saints on Sunday, since Sunday is still in the Octave of the Feast. Our pastor will be also discussing Simon and Jude. While we will light candles for the departed the emphasis will be on how they helped cultivate the faith of the rest of us.
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Since Lutherans do not accept the concept of purgatory and would argue all believers are in God's company now, All Souls has virtually disappeared in our lectionary. Most Lutheran congregations will be celebrating All Saints on Sunday, since Sunday is still in the Octave of the Feast. Our pastor will be also discussing Simon and Jude. While we will light candles for the departed the emphasis will be on how they helped cultivate the faith of the rest of us.
I'm glad you're so clear about the relationship between the feast of All Souls and a doctrine of purgatory. (Note that I say a doctrine of purgatory...) I'm astonished by the number of people in the Church of England who happily celebrate All Souls but who would be horrified at any suggestion of a doctrine of purgatory.
I've always wondered exactly what they think they're doing...
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Utrecht Catholic
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# 14285
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Posted
AS an Old-Catholic and like many Anglicans, I do not believe in the doctrine of the purgatory.
But I strongly believe in the prayers for the departed and my church observes the Liturgical Celebration of All Souls,again just like many Anglicans.
The Eastern-Orhodox church prays for the departed ,but rejects the Purgatory.
Instead of the Purgatory I believe in the Cleansing of the Souls.Purgatory is not the right term.
Many Anglican churches observe All Souls by having sung Requiems e.g.: St.Paul's cathedral and Westminster Abbey.
Mozart's Requiem Mass was sung at St.Paul's yesterday,with the use of incense and the prayers for the departed.
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Robert Kennedy
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Utrecht Catholic:
Instead of the Purgatory I believe in the Cleansing of the Souls.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Is it just the word "Purgatory" you do not like?
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
I remember a dear Jesuit scholar in my first year at theological college explaining to us, most of whom were not catholic, his understanding of purgatory. No matter how "saved" or otherwise you are, if you drop a brick on your toe you are likely not to be, at that moment, in the most magnificent state of grace. If at that moment you coincidentally or causitively die, what next?
Purgatory is the journey from that to bliss.
I also remember reading a sanctimonious fundamentalist writing in a book about the Teneriffe air disaster (well land disaster really, but let's not be picky). As one of the planes emerged from the mist a pilot screamed (and at this point my memory lets me down) "oh shit" or "Jesus Christ".* Either way he was not in the most beatific state of Christ consciousness. According to the author this was proof of his eternal damnation. I prefer to see it as a fine argument for purgatory.
Purgatory is the journey from that to bliss.
Though I am a universalist. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
*Google is my friend: the words appear to have been "Goddamn, that son-of-a-bitch is coming straight at us!"
[ 03. November 2012, 10:37: Message edited by: Zappa ]
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Maybe the soul can be cleansed in Heaven.
I remember a novel by Andrew Greeley where a character had a near death experience and saw his parents in Heaven. They had been Catholics but as mean as junk yard dogs in life. As he saw them, they were happier but somewhat confused by their environment. They weren't quite getting Heaven. The visitor was assured that in time, with God's love, they would indeed recover from earthly life and enjoy the fullness of Heaven.
Not a truly proper RC answer, but an answer nonetheless.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Utrecht Catholic:
AS an Old-Catholic and like many Anglicans, I do not believe in the doctrine of the purgatory.
But I strongly believe in the prayers for the departed and my church observes the Liturgical Celebration of All Souls,again just like many Anglicans.
The Eastern-Orhodox church prays for the departed ,but rejects the Purgatory.
Instead of the Purgatory I believe in the Cleansing of the Souls.Purgatory is not the right term.
I couldn't agree more! (This is magnificently illustrated in Newman's Dream of Gerontius.)
My bewilderment is with the number of Anglicans who essentially believe "oh, (s)he's in Heaven with Jesus now", but will still do an All Souls celebration.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
My bewilderment is with the number of Anglicans who essentially believe "oh, (s)he's in Heaven with Jesus now", but will still do an All Souls celebration.
I think at that point we slip into comfort speech rather than theological exactitude. It's slightly better than 'he she is now the brightest star looking down at us'. To be honest as a priest I would let that slide too: comfort surely outweighs theological precision? At least for a while after bereavement.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Noon low Mass at my parish for All Souls yesterday. All by candlelight since the power was out. One had to strain a little to hear the priest and the priest had to hold a candle in one hand to read the Missal. Rather beautiful really.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Mass schedule was as usual for yesterday on campus. They were busier than usual, but that's always the case on home football weekends. Our community celebration has been transferred to Monday, as we always have too many guests on a football weekend to be able to do something like that. All the area CSCs gather for Mass together and then we go in procession to our community cemetery. It's one of more moving celebrations each year, especially as I've been around a bit longer now and know more of the names on those graves.
A lot of our parishes will do an Evening Mass on All Soul's Day with nice music and some specific moment of praying for the any dead person whose name gets sent in.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
10 of us this morning for our transferred All Souls' Day Mass - some absentees due to sickness or holiday). Eastward-facing Common Worship Mass with propers from the Roman Missal. Black chasuble, three hymns, and incense at the usual places.
IMHO we have observed All Saints/All Souls as best we could, even though the turnout for both services was a little lower than usual. We also had (last Sunday afternoon) a non-eucharistic Memorial Service, arranged by two local funeral directors for families with whom they have dealt over the past year. We had upwards of 150 people at that service, which seems (as in past years) to have been well-received. We ourselves were responsible for the liturgy, which was basically a Commemoration of the Departed, taken from The Promise of his Glory.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Antiphon
Shipmate
# 14779
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Posted
At the mass for All Souls Day in my local RC church the priest wore white vestments rather then violet in order to better symbolise the resurrection of the dead and also used an Easter preface for the eucharistic prayer rather than a preface for the dead.
What do other contributors think of this? I have an open mind myself at the moment.
Posts: 235 | From: Nowhere in Particular | Registered: May 2009
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
I think it misses the point. Was this an RC parish?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
There's been a lot of that kind of thing over the years. I think it's mostly nonsense. The Mass for the Dead in the Roman Rite has always been a balance of mourning, commending the dead to the mercy of God and of hope. From the adoption of coloured vestments in the liturgy, in the Roman Rite these Masses have been celebrated either in Black or in Violet. The revised rite for Christian Funerals permits white - although it is at least arguable that this permission was granted not to accommodate western squeamishness but the cultural conditions of parts of the world where white is the colour of mourning. I'm afraid that I have never been to a White Mass for the Dead where the tone has anything of the mourning, any sense of the need for divine mercy or any hope: nothing other than a flat assurance that the dead are already in heaven. You could call that assurance (I was brought up in Methodism) but in Catholic life that has more usually been seen as presumption. Whatever it is, it seems to me to be a wholly regrettable manifestation of the hermeneutic of rupture.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
no blessing of the water at the offertory
Oh dear. Will the chalice be contaminated or something?
The water is still blessed, if you consider 'O God, who in wonder and honour...' a blessing, but the sign of the cross is not made.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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