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Originally posted by Indifferently:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

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Originally posted by Indifferently:
There is no such thing as "ADHD" and no objective evidence that it exists at all.

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Tell that to the NHS not to mention countless medical professionals.

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These are the same leftists whose view of 'harm reduction' has resulted in the worst drugs epidemic in western Europe. Most people who trust the NHS tend not to have had the misfortune of actually using it.

We live in an extremely undisciplined society. I have little wonder that children whose "parents" let them play video games and run roughshod will behave like savages, even in church. They are victims of our evil culture.

If anyone has seen objective evidence that there exists "ADHD" I'd love to see it. As it stands, it is just a faith belief, like "dyslexia".

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Originally posted by orfeo:
First time I've ever heard someone suggest dyslexia doesn't exist.

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

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Originally posted by orfeo:
First time I've ever heard someone suggest dyslexia doesn't exist.

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Ironically, at one time some lefty types questioned it - pointing out that middle class kids got a dyslexia diagnosis whilst working class kids got told they couldn't read. But (a) that isn't so much the case any more, and (b) I very much doubt that's where Indifferently was coming from.

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First time I've ever heard someone suggest dyslexia doesn't exist.

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:

Also, I find it very strange that Indifferently attends what I know to be an FiF church in light of his anti-Catholic prejudice? Just weird. Coventry's full of conservative evangelical Anglican churches.

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
As a person who needs antidepressants to function, I am so very grateful for my leftist NHS.

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Also, I find it very strange that Indifferently attends what I know to be an FiF church in light of his anti-Catholic prejudice? Just weird. Coventry's full of conservative evangelical Anglican churches.

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Boy, that's some awesome PR for FiF, Indifferently.

Of course every Christian constituency, including mine, has its twats.

Jade ... I, too, am puzzled by Anglo-Catholics who show such dislike for the ROMAN Catholic Church. If I were feeling mean, I'd say that those Anglo-Catholics who take pot-shots at Roman Catholics are wanting to have their cake and eat it. They can get the full benefit of belief in the Real Presence and the apostolic priesthood etc. without the inconvenience of having to actually toe the official RC party line.

If I were feeling mean.

(I really don't think that of Anglo-Catholics in general! She said, in un-Hellish mode.)

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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien

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Originally posted by seasick:
I don't think he is Anglo-Catholic.

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Originally posted by Porridge:
Every single one of my ADHD clients do seem to have had what might be "disordered" parenting."

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Originally posted by Josephine:

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Originally posted by Porridge:
Every single one of my ADHD clients do seem to have had what might be "disordered" parenting."

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Back when I studied psychology at my university, we learned about a study that had been done, as follows:

Mom and a child were kept in a waiting room for a rather prolonged period of time. Child was bouncing off the walls, engaging in a variety of inappropriate behaviors. Mother had a great deal of difficulty managing child. Mother appeared frustrated, disheveled, ineffective. Some of the moms yelled, or spanked, or other things to keep their kid under control. All of this was videotaped.

Later, after several weeks of treatment, mom and child were again kept in waiting room and videotaped. Mom's parenting strategies were appropriate and effective. Child's behavior was developmentally appropriate.

The two sets of videos were shown to psychiatry students (and maybe professionals, too), to get their impressions. What they didn't realize was that they weren't evaluating a study. THey were the subjects of the study.

Every single one of them thought that the mother was mentally ill, and had been in treatment.

In fact, the child had severe ADHD.

The child's behavior affects the mother's behavior. The mother's behavior affects the professional's interpretation of the mother.

But if you're a mom, you know: Whatever the child's problem is, it's all your fault.

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lilBuddha: If Indifferently had made the case for ADHD being over diagnosed, I would concur. To say it does not exist is idiocy.

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:
If Indifferently had made the case for ADHD being over diagnosed, I would concur. To say it does not exist is idiocy. Did not know we had any Scientologists on board.

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:

Everything in its place.

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
(For instance, the authors of Last Child in the Woods point to data that suggests symptoms of ADD are greatly reduces when you take kids who suffer form it into a rural, woodland setting for extended periods of time. This does not say ADD does not exist, but it sure as hell implies that a traditional classroom aggravates the hell out of the symptoms.)

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

But them my neph has ADD, and you can see the bafflement and panic in his eyes when he is confronted with certain stuff. It's mild enough for him to get by with behavior modification techniques, but the little warning bell definitely goes off.

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Originally posted by Porridge:

And people wonder, given the work I do and the stuff I hear, why I choose to remain childless.

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Originally posted by Ariston:

Yet my mind avoids focusing. Not just has trouble—it finds ways to distract me, to slide away from whatever it is I should be doing. This is a problem if you're a philosophy grad student and what you're reading is insanely hard, but your brain can only take about five minutes of it before crying out for something else, anything else. I spent a lot of time staring into space during math tests, simply because ten minutes in, my brain just shut down—couldn't take it any more. That much petty detail, all those concrete/sequential operations, it found ways to save me from further mental stress without me even realizing it. So I ended up eyes focused on the wall, pencil on the desk, thirty minutes later, tests handed in, no clue anything was wrong.

And, of course, facing parental discipline when the grades came back.

So really, Indifferently, what should you make of this? A precocious child from a good, loving, and stimulating household with brilliant parents who did the very best any parents really could (which still left me with some kinda nasty issues, but that's everyone) still has a fucked up head that needs a good therapist and strong meds (neither of which I can really afford, much less find a way to obtain, but, again, another rant) in order to be...well, if not normal, at least less dysfunctional.

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
(And your PM box is full)

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Originally posted by Ariston:
But. I have ADD, distractive subtype. Also pretty damn nasty depression. Sometimes, it's really nasty. I wasn't diagnosed with either until I was in grad school and...was thinking about things that shouldn't be thought about. I might also have social anxiety disorder, but that could just be a combination of depression and general shyness.
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This is a problem if you're a philosophy grad student

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Originally posted by MSHB:
We acknowledge physical differences - we don't say that Danny De Vito obviously just didn't try hard enough to grow, and so falls well inside the shortest 1% of adult males. So why do we have trouble admitting that brains vary and some brains fall outside the 95% that are close to average(*)? I don't think my brain is anywhere near average, and my body certainly isn't.

Just because all brains are hidden inside skulls (invisible) doesn't mean they are all the same, any more than the bodies that have brains are all the same.

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The problem is Ritalin levels out both actually ADD sufferers and poorly behaved children. And, in both cases, the parents need not put in as much effort.
Drugs should not be the way out, unless they are needed. In which case they should not be excluded.
Everything in its place.

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:
To pick nits, no drug works the same on everyone, even within a certain disorder or condition.
Singling out Ritalin was perhaps not the best example. The reality remains that medicating behaviour problems does occur. Ascribing behaviour to the disorder de jour instead of poor parenting* is more common than should be.


*Or admitting that "precious darling" is just a little shit. Or both.

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Originally posted by mousethief:
Attributing a child's behavior to poor parenting is a cop-out. It's generally applied by people without kids, or people who have stepford kids.

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Originally posted by QLib:

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Originally posted by mousethief:
Attributing a child's behavior to poor parenting is a cop-out. It's generally applied by people without kids, or people who have stepford kids.

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Not always. In fact, at the extreme end of the spectrum it's more often the case than not. If your parents are substance abusers with a chaotic lifestyle, if your dad is a psychopath who knocks your mum about regularly, if you're the family scapegoat, if your parents are themselves little more than needy children, if your mum is a prostitute who doesn't mind it when clients make you watch, if your parents lock you in a cupboard when you play up, or beat the shit out of you occasionally for no particularly reason, or kill your puppy because you've been naughty, then the chances are your behaviour is going to end up pretty screwed.

In fact, if you're dealing with a kid who regularly goes apeshit for no apparent reason, it would be criminally irresponsible not to raise with social services the idea that there might - just possibly - be some weird shit going on in their home.

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Originally posted by QLib:
In fact, if you're dealing with a kid who regularly goes apeshit for no apparent reason, it would be criminally irresponsible not to raise with social services the idea that there might - just possibly - be some weird shit going on in their home.

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if you're a mom, you know: Whatever the child's problem is, it's all your fault.

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