|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Rite I or 1928ish TEC Anglo-Catholic Parishes
|
Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
|
Posted
Can my fellow shippies help me identify TEC Anglo-Catholic parishes that either use 1979 Rite I or an accepted form of 1928 (e.g. '28/'79 hybrid with Anglo-Catholic accretions) as the basis for their principal Eucharist on Sundays and Holy Days?
I ask because some persons assert that Rite I inevitably turns into Rite II, so that use of the 1979 BCP generally be an evil thing, leading Anglo-Catholics down the road to ruin. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) ![[Confused]](confused.gif) ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Rite I (with Anglo-Catholic accretions) Anglo-Catholic TEC parishes that immediately come to my mind include Church of the Advent, Boston; Ascension & St Agnes, Washington DC; Grace and St Peter's, Baltimore (I can't clearly recall, but the last of these struck me as rather 1928ish the only time I was there, about 5 years ago). St Clement's, Philadelphia is an example of a place that doesn't use enough of the BCP liturgy to really qualify, even when the Anglican canon from the American edition of the English Missal is being used. However, my old American Missal cum 1979 modifications parish of St Timothy's, Fort Worth would qualify (that was many years ago now, and the parish has largely fallen apart in the intervening years due to many factors, most recently defections to the Ordinariate).
So what other TEC Anglo-Catholic parishes have a principal mass based largely on the Rite I order in 1979?
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
|
Posted
It was my impression that the folks who put together the Anglican Service Book (Church of the Good Shepherd, Rosemont PN) had done so specifically in order to consistently use Rite I for all services while following the 1979 BCP. So maybe anyone using that book could be added to your list?
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
|
Posted
Of the two Anglo-Catholic parishes in the Diocese of El Camino Real one of the them, St John's Chapel in Monterrey, uses the 1928 prayer book.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jon in the Nati
Shipmate
# 15849
|
Posted
St John's in Newport, RI uses the 28BCP and is AC in orientation; same for St John's in Detroit (very Anglo-Catholic).
I know it is beside the point, but every bit as interesting to me is St. John's Savannah, GA, which is a 28BCP parish of a low-church orientation (maybe the only one of its type left in TEC). Their principal Sunday service is still Matins.
--------------------
Homer: Aww, this isn't about Jesus, is it?
Lovejoy: All things are about Jesus, Homer. Except this.
Posts: 773 | From: Region formerly known as the Biretta Belt | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
St. Mary's (moderately AC) and St. Paul's (very AC, but also quite a small parish), both in Staten Island, New York.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
|
Posted
Church of the Holy Communion, Charleston, SC, uses the Anglican Service Book, which is as noted above, a trad language version of the TEC BCP (with some additions, to be sure).
This is used for both Sunday masses, and for the daily mass.
The minor propers are sung from The English Gradual, as updated from various sources for the 3-year lectionary, but recast, when necessary, in trad language.
Music of the mass ranges from the (most Sundays) Willan from the hymnal to various modern choral settings, with occasional forays into Haydn, Mozart & Schubert.
--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
|
Posted
Last time I was there, St John's Norristown, PA used Rite I for the high mass and '28 for the low mass. As mentioned The Good Shepherd Rosemont does in the context of the ASB.
Certainly St Paul's K Street in DC uses Rite I for all their masses AFAIR. I think The Advent in Baltimore does as well.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
Of the two Anglo-Catholic parishes in the Diocese of El Camino Real one of the them, St John's Chapel in Monterrey, uses the 1928 prayer book.
El Camino Real is one of the four dioceses that seceded from the Episcopal Church, so I don't think I'd count those parishes unless one or both were amongst those that chose to remain in TEC.
In addition to the ones other Shippies have mentioned, I myself forgot to mention one of the two major Chicago A-C shacks that I believe uses Rite I -- Ascention, I think it is? I always get the two parishes mixed up.
Oh yes, and I would include parishes using the Anglican Service Book in the list, since that is BCP-based.
[ 04. February 2013, 18:02: Message edited by: Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras ]
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
|
Posted
You are thinking about the diocese of San Joaquin which is in a different part of the state.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
You are thinking about the diocese of San Joaquin which is in a different part of the state.
Oh, sorry. You are quite right.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Planeta Plicata
Shipmate
# 17543
|
Posted
I'm assuming the other Anglo-Catholic parish in the Diocese of El Camino Real is St Luke's Los Gatos, right? Do they use Rite II?
Posts: 53 | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
|
Posted
Correct. I have never been there on a day they offered mass and their website is devoid of the terms Rite1 and 2. By reading between the lines of what they do say I believe they offer both, with Rite 1 being the early morning offering.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arpeggi
Apprentice
# 17487
|
Posted
I think S. Ignatius of Antioch on the Upper West Side of Manhattan meets your criteria. They are Rite I with minor propers and Tridentine form.Though their service leaflet makes it seem that they use Rite II forms for a couple of prayers.
Posts: 7 | From: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Dec 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
|
Posted
Good to know that about St Ignatius, Manhaatan. Always wanted to go there when in NYC but it is rather far uptown and we seldom venture north of Midtown. Being traddie language guys we usually just go to the high but not quite A-C St Thomas Fifth Ave or else on some occasions do SMV Times Sq or the more MOTR Ascension on 5th Ave Downtown, despite both being Rite II. We don't care forResurrection, upper Midtown East.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
St. Thomas the Apostle, Hollywood, uses Rite I during Lent, Advent, Holy Week, and for major holy days.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
In addition to the ones other Shippies have mentioned, I myself forgot to mention one of the two major Chicago A-C shacks that I believe uses Rite I -- Ascention, I think it is? I always get the two parishes mixed up.
Ascension uses Rite 2 for the principal Mass, but will use the Rite 1 Gloria (and Creed, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei). They use Rite 2 most of the time, except for the 8am, which is Rite 1.
Atonement is probably the other one you're thinking of. They use Rite 2 as well.
Chicago's Anglo-Catholicism is very much a Novus Ordo Catholicism. It's almost as if they were so genuinely concerned about the "Catholicism" part of Anglo-Catholicism that they had no choice but to change to the "new" order since Rome had done so!
[ 04. February 2013, 22:55: Message edited by: Olaf ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
I think The Advent in Baltimore does as well.
Correct. And it doesn't look like the interim rector is going to fiddle with that.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
St. Thomas the Apostle, Hollywood, uses Rite I during Lent, Advent, Holy Week, and for major holy days.
I find the practice of assigning Rite I to penitential seasons and using Rite II for Ordinary Time a typically MOTR peculiarity and rather yucky and inconsistent for Anglo-Catholics.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Ascension uses Rite 2 for the principal Mass, but will use the Rite 1 Gloria (and Creed, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei). They use Rite 2 most of the time, except for the 8am, which is Rite 1.
Yep, and the monthly Evensong and Benediction uses Rite I (which I attended yesterday). The Sung Mass at 9 on Sundays is similarly Rite II with the Rite I Ordinary; weekday Masses are all Rite II throughout. I find I have to sneak a peek at the celebrant's book when I'm serving at a Wednesday evening Mass, as singing the Rite I texts on Sunday is messing up my memory of the Rite II ones. Creator or maker? Things seen and unseen or visible and invisible?
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
|
Posted
Doesn't Ascension have ad orientem celebration for the high masses, or am I misinformed about that?
IME ad orientem tends to be coupled with Rite I, whilst Rite II goes along with v.p. The only exception I can think of this was during the 1970s-80s at Mount Calvary, Baltimore (now in the Ordinariate), where Rite I with Anglo-Catholic accretions was in use, at which time the rector had a free-standing stone altar installed on the pavement for westward facing celebration. Photos I have seen in more recent years indicate that this free-standing altar table was subsequently removed and that celebration reverted to the Victorian era, wedding cake style high altar, which the former rector had described to me as, "one of those Victorian altars that never really worked." Why it didn't "work" I'm unsure, although the altar steps looked rather narrow and the degree of ascent a bit steep (sacred ministers and servers losing their footing comes to mind).
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Planeta Plicata:
I'm assuming the other Anglo-Catholic parish in the Diocese of El Camino Real is St Luke's Los Gatos, right? Do they use Rite II?
St Luke's in the Hills? That's an REC parish these days.
ETA : Oh, never mind--I see there is a St Luke's in Los Gatos *and* a St Luke's Chapel in Los Gatos Hills. Confusing, that!
[ 05. February 2013, 16:55: Message edited by: Fr Weber ]
--------------------
"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
Of the two Anglo-Catholic parishes in the Diocese of El Camino Real one of the them, St John's Chapel in Monterrey, uses the 1928 prayer book.
A friend of mine used to be rector at St John's. He was more "high & dry" than A-C, an appellation he would have rejected! I wonder if the parish has come up the candle since then?
--------------------
"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
|
Posted
Good question. My only knowledge about this particular group was based on their website and a couple of other pieces of info I picked up elsewhere.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
|
Posted
St. Nicholas of Myra, Encino, in the Diocese of Los Angeles, is Rite I all the time. The Priest-in-Charge, Fr. Michael Cooper SCP, has definitely raised the candle in this parish.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Doesn't Ascension have ad orientem celebration for the high masses, or am I misinformed about that?
Yes, it's ad orientem at the high altar for the Sunday 8 a.m. Low Mass and for all Solemn Masses, whether on Sunday or a holy day. For the Sunday 9 a.m. Sung Mass and all other Low Masses, there's a freestanding altar that is rolled over from the side of the sanctuary. Looks good with its throw-over Laudian frontal. Looks good when it's not being used, too...looks like a side altar for private Masses (but isn't used for that).
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Doesn't Ascension have ad orientem celebration for the high masses, or am I misinformed about that?
Yes, it's ad orientem at the high altar for the Sunday 8 a.m. Low Mass and for all Solemn Masses, whether on Sunday or a holy day. For the Sunday 9 a.m. Sung Mass and all other Low Masses, there's a freestanding altar that is rolled over from the side of the sanctuary. Looks good with its throw-over Laudian frontal. Looks good when it's not being used, too...looks like a side altar for private Masses (but isn't used for that).
Here are some photos to illustrate this:
1. Solemn Mass ad orientem at High Altar
2. Freestanding altar stored at left side below painting
3. Freestanding altar being used - 9 a.m. Sung Mass on Sunday
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
LA Dave,
Back in the day, St. Nicholas, Encino was exclusively Rite I. In fact, their weekly LA Times advert stated, "Rite I is the right one."
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
|
Posted
I never saw that ad, but it reflects the parish.
I think that Father Cooper (a former law enforcement officer, like Bishop Bruno) is interested in reaffirming the A/C character of the parish, which is emphasized by the doors of the church, on which there is a bronze sculptural depiction of the seven sacraments, featuring the visage of the parish's founder, Fr. Harley Wright Smith.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
KevinL
Apprentice
# 12481
|
Posted
The Parish of St. Mary in Palms (Los Angeles) will likely be yucky and inconsistent this year during Lent.
[ 06. February 2013, 05:21: Message edited by: KevinL ]
Posts: 35 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
|
Posted
Sorry I'm not able to provide a link at this time but St. Paul's in Riverside, Illinois appears to be exclusively Rite 1 as well.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
In my opinion what's yucky and inconsistent is Rite I liturgy but readings from a modern translation. St. Thomas the Apostle, Hollywood, is not guilty of that, and I trust neither is St. Mary in Palms. I have, howsever, witnessed it elsewhere.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hooker's Trick
Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Chicago's Anglo-Catholicism is very much a Novus Ordo Catholicism. It's almost as if they were so genuinely concerned about the "Catholicism" part of Anglo-Catholicism that they had no choice but to change to the "new" order since Rome had done so!
The only Rite I parish I can think of in Chicago is St Chrysostrom's, which still alternates Mattins as the main Sunday service.
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hooker's Trick
Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
|
Posted
More along LSK's lines:
St Monica and St James, Capitol Hill and All Soul's, both in this diocese.
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
The only Rite I parish I can think of in Chicago is St Chrysostrom's, which still alternates Mattins as the main Sunday service.
That's probably it for the city. In Da Burbs, some parishes do a Penitential Rite I in Advent & Lent. I'd much rather a place did that than fracture the parish into the 8am faction and the 10am faction.
[ 06. February 2013, 22:51: Message edited by: Olaf ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
Ah, yes. The 8:00am "reactionaries" and the 10:00am "trendies".
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hilda of Whitby
Shipmate
# 7341
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
More along LSK's lines:
St Monica and St James, Capitol Hill and All Soul's, both in this diocese.
Yes. I used to attend St. Monica and St. James when it was still just St. James.
What about the Anglican Parish of Christ the King in Georgetown?
http://anglicanparishofchristtheking.org/
The website says it is Rite I.
I used to walk past this church on the way to my hairdressers and was always quite curious about it.
--------------------
"Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad."
Posts: 412 | From: Nickel City | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
Does "strict" permit a bit of yuckiness and inconsistency? Fr. Reid seems to think quite highly of St. Thomas the Apostle, Hollywood, in spite of its arguably being much less "strict" than S. Clement, Philadelphia.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
sonata3
Shipmate
# 13653
|
Posted
Church of Our Saviour in Atlanta (Virginia-Highland neighborhood) used to be '28 (ad orientem) at the early service, Rite I (versus populum, with minor propers chanted and incense) at the latter. Fr. Tanghe, rector there for some time, left TEC to be priest for a group of Episcopal nuns who also left TEC to become Roman Catholic. The parish has remained in TEC, and I gather is still conservative liturgically, but is now willing to use ASB versions of Rite II Eucharistic Prayers.
--------------------
"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
Posts: 386 | From: Between two big lakes | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
Does "strict" permit a bit of yuckiness and inconsistency? Fr. Reid seems to think quite highly of St. Thomas the Apostle, Hollywood, in spite of its arguably being much less "strict" than S. Clement, Philadelphia.
I'm sure I'd appreciate St Thomas the Apostle, Hollywood as well, though I dislike seasonally changing from one rite to another (much less one eucharistic canon to another within Rite II). I am acquainted with Fr Ian Davies from his time as curate at All Saints Margaret Street, where he definitely brought some flamboyantly Anglo-Catholic colour to a parish which I love but which can be a bit staid in its way (though I think ASMS's version of Anglo-Catholic liturgy works very well indeed in the main).
My real point in starting this thread was to survey Shippies' knowledge of A-C parishes that have retained Rite I as the essence of their principal liturgies (understanding that is with the usual sorts of A-C accretions and ceremonial). Many seem to think that Rite I is disappearing in favour of Rite II, and I would tend to say this is true many places in MOTR parishes, as well obviously as in some A-C places such as St Mary the Virgin Times Square. However, it seems that Rite I in some version is hanging on in some of the most important A-C parishes.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hilda of Whitby:
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
More along LSK's lines:
St Monica and St James, Capitol Hill and All Soul's, both in this diocese.
Yes. I used to attend St. Monica and St. James when it was still just St. James.
Didn't the Frankenstein Parish of St. Ja'Monica's finally drive a big wooden stake through the heart of the old St. James liturgy?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
|
Posted
To the best of my knowledge, both Advent, Boston, and Transfiguration, Manhattan, use Rite I at their High Mass.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
|
Posted
Yes, I mentioned Advent, Boston in my OP as being a Rite I parish, and certainly it is one of the most important A-C parishes in the country.
I believe I did recently hear second-hand that Transfiguration, Manhattan is Rite I. I have never been to the latter, as it's rather far uptown and not especially convenient to get to when my partner and I are in the City.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
To the best of my knowledge, both Advent, Boston, and Transfiguration, Manhattan, use Rite I at their High Mass.
Yes. I worked at the hospitality desk during the last American Guild of Organists' national convention here in Chicago. Advent's organist/choirmaster visited the desk to ask about Sunday services at nearby churches. When I told her our parish's Solemn High Mass was Rite II, she made a face as though she had smelled something awful, even before I could say we have the best choir and organist in the city and that the bits of the Ordinary not sung by the choir are in Rite I language. She didn't visit us on Sunday.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
BulldogSacristan
Shipmate
# 11239
|
Posted
Does anyone know of an instance of a church changing their principal mass TO a Rite I service? I've heard of several places going back to ad orientem, but what about going backto more traditional language? It seems to be lots of people would support such a thing, but few people have the courage to do it.
On a separate note, why do some people have such an immediately negative reaction when Rite I comes up? It can be quite beautiful, and when it comes down to it, it's really not all that different.
Posts: 197 | From: Boston, Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
On a separate note, why do some people have such an immediately negative reaction when Rite I comes up? It can be quite beautiful, and when it comes down to it, it's really not all that different.
I agree with you about Rite I, but the common objection is that Rite I language is stilted, old-fashioned, stuffy, and not like the language we would use were we to pray extemporaneously to God, and it holds God at arm's length.
Like you, I find the traditional language beautiful, and I think of it as an expansion of one's personal vocabulary of prayer to be able to pray in lofty, uplifted language as well as more direct, modern language. So I like Rites I and II both.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
On a separate note, why do some people have such an immediately negative reaction when Rite I comes up? It can be quite beautiful, and when it comes down to it, it's really not all that different.
Rite 1 in TEC is the equivalent of the C of E's old Rite B/CW 'Traditional' I believe. I say mass once a week at a church which uses this and it still grates on me rather. I can understand the desire to use the old Prayer Book, and accept it as a product of its time. The language is indeed beautiful but the theology (not to mention the politics) is not. To hack it about and even worse to write new texts in pastiche Tudor English strikes me as [a] pointless and [b] play-acting. It's the liturgical equivalent of fake half-timbering on a branch of Tesco. Why can't we be honest and address God in our own tongue? There is no reason to use crass or inelegant language: there are many poets of our own time who can write beautifully, and some of the Common Worship texts prove this.
I've tried to use some of the CW prefaces, for example, with the 'traditional' rite, and can't work out whether to try and 'tudorfy' them off the cuff or read them straight. It's mainly the 'you/thou' difference that is noticeable, but if you use the latter you are forced into all sorts of unnatural verb forms. What is worse still, and bordering on heresy IMHO, is to do as RSV does and use 'thou' for God and 'you' for individual humans.
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
BulldogSacristan
Shipmate
# 11239
|
Posted
I won't try to speak to Common Worship because I don't know anything at all about that book, but the Episcopal Church's prayerbook has almost everything in Rite I, so there's blessedly little "Tudorifying" (great word).
Posts: 197 | From: Boston, Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
I won't try to speak to Common Worship because I don't know anything at all about that book, but the Episcopal Church's prayerbook has almost everything in Rite I, so there's blessedly little "Tudorifying" (great word).
What has bothered some Rite I parishes is the psalter not being Coverdale (although the 1979 psalter was developed using the set of vocabulary that Coverdale used, for the most part...same word-bank but modern verb forms, for instance).
But there's the Anglican Service Book to fill in the gaps (and provide the marriage rite, pastoral services, etc.) in traditional English.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hilda of Whitby
Shipmate
# 7341
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Hilda of Whitby:
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
More along LSK's lines:
St Monica and St James, Capitol Hill and All Soul's, both in this diocese.
Yes. I used to attend St. Monica and St. James when it was still just St. James.
Didn't the Frankenstein Parish of St. Ja'Monica's finally drive a big wooden stake through the heart of the old St. James liturgy?
I believe you are correct, sad to say.
--------------------
"Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad."
Posts: 412 | From: Nickel City | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
