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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Atheist church
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Grokesx:
@Adeodatus
New Atheist comedy? Is there such a thing? No one sent me that memo.
Comedy that rides on the New Atheist bandwagon. And that's another reason it's bad comedy - bandwagon comedy follows the zeitgeist; good comedy helps form it. Where was all the sharp, clever comedy about religion before Dawkins became a media star?
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Certainly, a lot of comedians are atheists today. Of course, that does not make them either funny or not funny. What does that, is having a sense of humour. One of my friends is an extremely witty man, who is an atheist, and a stand-up, but he is not witty because he is an atheist, of course!
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
Wit? That would be good! Comedy which relies on embarrassment, or which spreads urban myths in a way which suggests that anyone who thinks any other way is an idiot, is what I seem to find when looking for comedy ( and turn off ) recently.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Re comedy that deals with religion, let's not forget the best of them all - Father Ted! I am pretty sure Graham Linehan is an atheist but there's no lack of intelligence or wit there. He's also responsible for Black Books and The IT Crowd so he's OK with me.
Mark Betts, whilst the 'New Atheist' comedians can be highly unfunny and annoying, I don't think racist/homophobic/sexist etc jokes should be more appealing to Christians because of that. There is plenty of comedy that is neither anti-Christian or bigoted, it's not either/or. Bill Bailey comes to mind (one of my favourites).
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
And if you're a black Christian you're close to the Black Irish Sheepdog of the "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" days.
[ 22. March 2013, 14:12: Message edited by: mdijon ]
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I suppose Tim Minchin might qualify as one of these "New Atheist" comedians, but he remains very talented, extremely funny and doesn't annoy me in the slightest. I still think it's a travesty that his Christmas song a couple of years back was cut from the Jonathan Ross show.
Storm is a classic. I play it in my mind whilst I'm biting my tongue at any social interaction with someone spouting woo that it would be socially inappropriate* to counter.
*i.e. Mrs Backslider would kill me.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I suppose Tim Minchin might qualify as one of these "New Atheist" comedians, but he remains very talented, extremely funny and doesn't annoy me in the slightest. I still think it's a travesty that his Christmas song a couple of years back was cut from the Jonathan Ross show.
Storm is a classic. I play it in my mind whilst I'm biting my tongue at any social interaction with someone spouting woo that it would be socially inappropriate* to counter.
*i.e. Mrs Backslider would kill me.
Tim Minchin's done some funny stuff. However, as a scientist and a Christian I resent having an atheistic arts* grad tell me about how my faith makes me irrational and anti-science. What does he know about it?
*BA English & Theatre, University of Western Australia 1995
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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Posts: 2821 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Storm is a classic. I play it in my mind whilst I'm biting my tongue at any social interaction with someone spouting woo that it would be socially inappropriate* to counter.
*i.e. Mrs Backslider would kill me.
Tim Minchin's done some funny stuff. However, as a scientist and a Christian I resent having an atheistic arts* grad tell me about how my faith makes me irrational and anti-science. What does he know about it?
Wow. Now we know who Storm is.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I suppose Tim Minchin might qualify as one of these "New Atheist" comedians, but he remains very talented, extremely funny and doesn't annoy me in the slightest. I still think it's a travesty that his Christmas song a couple of years back was cut from the Jonathan Ross show.
Storm is a classic. I play it in my mind whilst I'm biting my tongue at any social interaction with someone spouting woo that it would be socially inappropriate* to counter.
*i.e. Mrs Backslider would kill me.
Tim Minchin's done some funny stuff. However, as a scientist and a Christian I resent having an atheistic arts* grad tell me about how my faith makes me irrational and anti-science. What does he know about it?
*BA English & Theatre, University of Western Australia 1995
I know what he thinks. It doesn't make me resentful. Sometimes worried that he's right, but never resentful.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Grokesx
Shipmate
# 17221
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Posted
quote:
Where was all the sharp, clever comedy about religion before Dawkins became a media star?
George Carlin, Lenny Bruce, Tom Lehrer, Dave Allen, Monty Python, as someone's already mentioned, Father Ted, as someone else has already mentioned, Eddie Izzard...
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For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H. L. Mencken
Posts: 373 | From: Derby, UK | Registered: Jul 2012
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Storm is a classic. I play it in my mind whilst I'm biting my tongue at any social interaction with someone spouting woo that it would be socially inappropriate* to counter.
*i.e. Mrs Backslider would kill me.
Tim Minchin's done some funny stuff. However, as a scientist and a Christian I resent having an atheistic arts* grad tell me about how my faith makes me irrational and anti-science. What does he know about it?
Wow. Now we know who Storm is.
If you think his video was solely about one particular girl called Storm ...
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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Mark Betts,
Were i to start writing jokes about Orthodoxy, I am sure would would simply laugh a self-depreciating laugh and say, "it is all in fun."
Funny, if someone else is the target, it is "Oh, it is but jest." But if you are the target, it becomes " Hang on now, that crossed the line."
80's mdijion? It still happens, just less. But for that less, I do thank those white, middle-class people who join the protests.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Grokesx:
quote:
Where was all the sharp, clever comedy about religion before Dawkins became a media star?
George Carlin, Lenny Bruce, Tom Lehrer, Dave Allen, Monty Python, as someone's already mentioned, Father Ted, as someone else has already mentioned, Eddie Izzard...
You're quite right. I'd have been closer to the mark if I'd specified atheist comedy, which is what I meant to do. It's debatable, but I think that would knock Dave Allen, Father Ted and Eddie Izzard off the list, and possibly even Monty Python. Not because they weren't coming from an atheist perspective, but because I think they were too kind - affectionate, even, in Allen's case. Lehrer I'll grant you, and I'm not sufficiently familiar with Carlin and Bruce.
But I'll stand by my point that the likes of Carr and Fry are riding the bandwagon, and that their comedy is sloppily observed - when it's about religion, anyway.
(I keep meaning to properly listen to some Tim Minchin, but there's just something about him I really don't like. It's nothing to do with his atheism, but I just can't put my finger on it. Maybe it's his taste in makeup.)
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
How many atheist comedians are there? I know of comedians who are atheists, some of whom do bits about religion, but they are not "atheist comedians." Whereas, I have heard Christian comedians.
ETA: Minchin is a mixed bag for me. Sometimes I am rolling on the floor, other times fast forwarding.
[ 22. March 2013, 15:58: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Atheist comedy is like atheist jelly. You just can't buy it these days. I blame austerity.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
How many atheist comedians are there? I know of comedians who are atheists, some of whom do bits about religion, but they are not "atheist comedians." Whereas, I have heard Christian comedians.
Atheist comedy and Christian comedy are bad for the same reason: they put the evangelism before the comedy.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Atheist comedy is like atheist jelly. You just can't buy it these days. I blame austerity.
Whereas you can find theist jelly. I've had some that made me exclaim "Holy sh***"
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Atheist comedy is like atheist jelly. You just can't buy it these days. I blame austerity.
Whereas you can find theist jelly. I've had some that made me exclaim "Holy sh***"
You're using it wrong.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Atheist comedy and Christian comedy are bad for the same reason: they put the evangelism before the comedy.
I have to agree there Adeodatus - I'm no big fan of christian comedy, particularly the seemingly obligatory pulpit "joke."
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Atheist comedy is like atheist jelly. You just can't buy it these days. I blame austerity.
Whereas you can find theist jelly. I've had some that made me exclaim "Holy sh***"
I believe the water-based ones are very good for the older man and woman, who have problems around, shall we say, their viscosity index.
Whether such lubricants tend towards atheism or theism, is unclear, but they have been known to produce cries of 'oh God', so here's hoping for a good conclusion.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
How many atheist comedians are there? I know of comedians who are atheists, some of whom do bits about religion, but they are not "atheist comedians." Whereas, I have heard Christian comedians.
Atheist comedy and Christian comedy are bad for the same reason: they put the evangelism before the comedy.
I can't imagine such a thing as evangelistic comedy. Who would go to watch it? Christians don't need evangelising, and non-Christians would run a mile.
Christian comedy could be as funny as any other kind if it dealt with the problems and challenges incongruities of Christian life and the frustrations of being in the church, as well as some of the fun things. A few weeks ago I went to see a church pantomine; Cinderella's membership of her local Methodist church was a key element in the plot!! I laughed because I understood the digs at Methodist church culture, as did many of the people around me.
Many years ago I went to see the Reduced Shakespeare Co. doing a dramatic run-through of the books of the Bible, and I enjoyed that a lot. Again, it must've helped that I'd entered that world and read the Bible.
Popular culture has a place for the clergyman in comedy, of course. He's a hapless, awkward figure, from Jane Austen's Mr Collins, to the misfits in Father Ted, to the melancholy Rev. The Vicar of Dibley was jolly, but that's because she was fat, not because she was a vicar!
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
Well there could be a new quasi-religious sit-com now, couldn't there SvitlanaV2?
"The pseudo-vicar of Islington - but only if you happen to be a white middle-class academic atheist"
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
I haven't found a review of "Easter for Atheists" yet, but here's a fill-in for the meantime:
'Easter for Atheists' with Sanderson Jones - Wired For Success TV [Episode 53]
btw. I see Sanderson Jones is lining his pockets by appearing in the "Gumtree" adverts - such a virtuous fellow!
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
Ahhh, here we go:
The Single Girl Discovers Church
...and remember, don't shoot the messenger - I haven't even read it yet.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
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Posted
I just read it. A blander, more anodyne piece you couldn't imagine. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) . It drips with middle-class niceness ... like some churches, I suppose. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
What it does show is how so many seem to crave genuine community, not surprising for people who live in London ...
P.S. What's so heinous about getting revenue through Gumtree adverts? Lots of Christian bloggers get income from advertising ...
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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
I haven't found a review of "Easter for Atheists" yet, but here's a fill-in for the meantime:
'Easter for Atheists' with Sanderson Jones - Wired For Success TV [Episode 53]
Many thanks! ![[Smile]](smile.gif) That was an interesting start to the day. I was intending to go to the Humanist Group meeting this afternoon (a talk by our Humanist Celebrant), but I've been invited to lunch with son and family , so that takes precedence!
Have you, or are you going to, listen to it all the way through? Very sensible, the whole thing!
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
Many thanks! That was an interesting start to the day. I was intending to go to the Humanist Group meeting this afternoon (a talk by our Humanist Celebrant), but I've been invited to lunch with son and family , so that takes precedence!
Have you, or are you going to, listen to it all the way through? Very sensible, the whole thing!
Where's your conviction, SusanDoris? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Anyway, I half listened to the podcast, well probably not even that, as I was playing it through my headphones while doing other stuff.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laurelin:
I just read it. A blander, more anodyne piece you couldn't imagine. . It drips with middle-class niceness ...
Hahahaha! ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) Bring it on Laurelin.
It certainly smacked of a white middle-class academic "set", who don't actually do very much, apart from their once-per-month entertainment show, where they pat each other on the back and celebrate how nice and moralistic atheists are.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
Apologies for the treble-post, but I thought I'd just comment about the mention of Dave Tomlinson in the article. It sounded like the anti-climax of the century to me, but I'm glad Leanne Davis enjoyed him - more bland, anodyne (I googled it!) instantly forgettable bilge. ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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kankucho
Shipmate
# 14318
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
It certainly smacked of a white middle-class academic "set", who don't actually do very much, apart from their once-per-month entertainment show, where they pat each other on the back and celebrate how nice and moralistic atheists are.
I wonder what impression a visitor to an average church service would get about the amount and quality of 'action' its participants get up to in between their self-congratulatory 'shows' -- and whether the opinion they formed would have any more objective validity than the one you've so pointedly formed on this atheists' assembly.
Btw: Did anyone else catch that appraisal of Dave Allen on the telly last week? Was he an Oxford, or a Cambridge man?
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"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" – Dr. Carl Sagan
Kankucho Bird Blues
Posts: 1262 | From: Kuon-ganjo, E17 | Registered: Nov 2008
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Bumping this thread up to post the link to an American version of an atheist church.
It also relates to the thread on "Young Atheists", particularly in that the speaker/preacher lost all his sense of "religion" despite (or because of?) having been a Pentecostal preacher for 25 years.
I tend to think that the "harder" atheists become that way by reaction to a religious background that didn't make sense to them personally, while the probably-larger group of agnostics/"softer" atheists just drifted into their belief through all that stuff simply not mattering.
But I do think the preacher in the linked article has a point: there is little community sense in NOT belonging to something. So, how do you find some sense of community without some form of ecclesia?
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
Baton Rouge, La - that's Jimmy Swaggart territory, but I think he gets more than 80 turn up for his events.
It's no use telling other people where they should and shouldn't go, everyone has a mind of their own - but I know where I'd rather be if I was living there. I don't see how "To Delight in Being Alive" can be much comfort to people who have recently lost dear ones.
"Someday, what you are doing will become normal. Isn’t that a feeling?" Now, where have I heard that before? I get the feeling that if proponents of these atheist "churches" say this enough, they think everyone will believe it.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kankucho:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
It certainly smacked of a white middle-class academic "set", who don't actually do very much, apart from their once-per-month entertainment show, where they pat each other on the back and celebrate how nice and moralistic atheists are.
I wonder what impression a visitor to an average church service would get about the amount and quality of 'action' its participants get up to in between their self-congratulatory 'shows' -- and whether the opinion they formed would have any more objective validity than the one you've so pointedly formed on this atheists' assembly.
This is going to come across as massively judgemental, perhaps because that's exactly what it is... Anyway, I think you're right, kankucho; plenty of religious activities probably are regular (I guess usually weekly, not monthly) shows between which nothing much happens. It shouldn't be this way, of course, but maybe it often is. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
Here's the latest on Sanderson Jones' venture:
Funday School: the Sunday Assembly finds a new home
News is pretty scant these days, and it's back "after a brief break" - that means just one meeting in two months.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
But I do think the preacher in the linked article has a point: there is little community sense in NOT belonging to something. So, how do you find some sense of community without some form of ecclesia?
Easy.
Sporting club, bridge club, birdwatching club, rotary club, environmental club, political club, volunteer club, schools, universities etc etc.
There are million different options.
But whipping up emotion against a common cause is an excellent way to bind people too. That's why nationalism is so powerful.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by kankucho:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
It certainly smacked of a white middle-class academic "set", who don't actually do very much, apart from their once-per-month entertainment show, where they pat each other on the back and celebrate how nice and moralistic atheists are.
I wonder what impression a visitor to an average church service would get about the amount and quality of 'action' its participants get up to in between their self-congratulatory 'shows' -- and whether the opinion they formed would have any more objective validity than the one you've so pointedly formed on this atheists' assembly.
This is going to come across as massively judgemental, perhaps because that's exactly what it is... Anyway, I think you're right, kankucho; plenty of religious activities probably are regular (I guess usually weekly, not monthly) shows between which nothing much happens. It shouldn't be this way, of course, but maybe it often is.
Jesus.
Youse make it sound like church is some kind of social justice club.
Don't need to go to church to do that.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
But I do think the preacher in the linked article has a point: there is little community sense in NOT belonging to something. So, how do you find some sense of community without some form of ecclesia?
Easy.
Sporting club, bridge club, birdwatching club, rotary club, environmental club, political club, volunteer club, schools, universities etc etc.
There are million different options.
But whipping up emotion against a common cause is an excellent way to bind people too. That's why nationalism is so powerful.
Let's just say this: it's not at all surprising that the political scientist Robert Putnam has written a book called American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us and one called Bowling Alone, the latter of which is about the decline of community and social organizations and clubs. Megachurches have filled a lot of that gap with Zuumba classes, birdwatching, and whatever else; us mainliners have our knitting clubs and so on.
But if atheists don't believe in the power of ritual (and that's a big if, not true of all such atheist or humanist gatherings), then they're really just getting together once in a while to discuss morality and meaning. And wait, there's not much discussion.
At least we can claim something intrinsically important for our once-a-week get-togethers.
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
...But whipping up emotion against a common cause is an excellent way to bind people too. That's why nationalism is so powerful.
Are you saying that this is what these atheist "churches" are really all about? That they are like political pressure groups (strictly left wing) of white middle class academics with nothing better to do?
Is their main purpose to take on the rise of nationalism, and eradicate religion (which they associate with the far right)?
It is very easy for a political ideology to become more important in itself than the people it affects.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
I saw this thread and your name for last post, so thought you might have news. However, having thought, I did a google search and came up with two links, the second one of which isthis one dated 23 June. So thank you for prompting me!
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
ISTM that most of the atheists that I know are more in the mode of saying "I can't be arsed" than they are of definitely denying anything.
Churches often refuse to deal with the questions people ask, preferring to offer irrelevant or pointless answers to serious questions. The people who then give up on church may want some form of ritual or gathering-with-a-purpose, but they still want something that seems positive to them. So saying "not... not...not" is unlikely among them.
But, yes, there are plenty of Christians who say "not...not...not..." but all too often it is about other people, not themselves, and this tends to turn even more people off.
Try thinking of Gandhi saying that he understood and would like to follow Jesus, but the Christians turned him off. Is that what you are trying to do, AE?
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Al Eluia
Inquisitor
# 864
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
ISTM that most of the atheists that I know are more in the mode of saying "I can't be arsed" than they are of definitely denying anything.
Churches often refuse to deal with the questions people ask, preferring to offer irrelevant or pointless answers to serious questions. The people who then give up on church may want some form of ritual or gathering-with-a-purpose, but they still want something that seems positive to them. So saying "not... not...not" is unlikely among them.
But, yes, there are plenty of Christians who say "not...not...not..." but all too often it is about other people, not themselves, and this tends to turn even more people off.
Try thinking of Gandhi saying that he understood and would like to follow Jesus, but the Christians turned him off. Is that what you are trying to do, AE?
If "AE" is me, no, I was just making a little joke about the fact that there's an "atheist church."
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Consider helping out the Anglican Seminary in El Salvador with a book or two! https://www.amazon.es/registry/wishlist/YDAZNSAWWWBT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_ws_7IRSzbD16R9RQ
https://www.episcopalcafe.com/a-seminary-is-born-in-el-salvador/
Posts: 1157 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
I saw this thread and your name for last post, so thought you might have news. However, having thought, I did a google search and came up with two links, the second one of which isthis one dated 23 June. So thank you for prompting me!
Sorry to be so blunt, but I recognize all the usual atheist/humanist dogmas, but the article had nothing whatsoever to do with Atheist "churches."
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
...But whipping up emotion against a common cause is an excellent way to bind people too. That's why nationalism is so powerful.
Are you saying that this is what these atheist "churches" are really all about? That they are like political pressure groups (strictly left wing) of white middle class academics with nothing better to do?
Is their main purpose to take on the rise of nationalism, and eradicate religion (which they associate with the far right)?
No.
That kind of specificity would entirely depend on the type of atheist church it is and the agenda of the "pastor" and "congregation".
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
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Posted
What Evensong said.
Surely atheists differ as much among themselves as Christians do. ![[Confused]](confused.gif) Not every atheist is a militant type who wants to eradicate religion from the face of the earth! I am pretty certain that many people attending the Sunday Assembly wouldn't have that attitude. They're just not interested in religion and feel this is a community-based alternative to religious faith ... or so I imagine. I don't see anything political about their setup at all. Indeed, they seem to be a very inoffensive lot.
It's the National Secular Society - who an atheist friend of mine once described as being full of 'angry ex-Catholics' and he should know, he was friends with a lot of them - who can get a bit shirty. ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laurelin:
It's the National Secular Society - who an atheist friend of mine once described as being full of 'angry ex-Catholics' and he should know, he was friends with a lot of them - who can get a bit shirty.
Or The Freedom From Religion Foundation ( US equivalent?) that actively seek to denigrate religion and are bound emotionally against a cause.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
If "AE" is me, no, I was just making a little joke about the fact that there's an "atheist church."
In which case the joke is on you. The atheists aren't the ones calling it an atheist church, it's the media and people like Mark Betts who never let facts get in the way of their prejudices.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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kankucho
Shipmate
# 14318
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
Do they recite a creed? I'm imagining something like,
I don't believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth.
I don't believe in Jesus Christ . . .
The first five words of that can be taken as read - if not actually recited. As for the rest of it... Well, you would be imagining that, wouldn't you? But atheism doesn't concern itself with the specific beliefs of others.
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"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" – Dr. Carl Sagan
Kankucho Bird Blues
Posts: 1262 | From: Kuon-ganjo, E17 | Registered: Nov 2008
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
Do they recite a creed? I'm imagining something like,
I don't believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth.
I don't believe in Jesus Christ . . .
This reminds me of Christians that define themselves by what they don't do.
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
It is very easy for a political ideology to become more important in itself than the people it affects.
The same is true of religious ideology.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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