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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Barbarous neologisms and other things
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Yes, it's another grammar pedants thread. We haven't had one for a while, and I feel sufficiently moved to start one.
What is this trend to use verbs as nouns?
"I'll send an invite."
"You have to wait for the reveal at the end."
"It's a new build."
And this horrible trend towards contractions?
"I've prepped the onions."
"It's prolly true."
And complete ungrammaticisms:
"Me and him were out last night."
"She was sat there."
"He was laying on the floor."
And finally a couple of random annoyances:
"He stomped up the stairs and then snuck into his room" - not in the UK he didn't. In Britain he stamped up the stairs and sneaked into his room.
Colloquial English used in conversation is one thing but when these sorts of things start appearing in print, it's worrying because it suggests that some people no longer know the difference between colloquial and "proper" English. Language evolves, but not every change is an example of good evolution.
Just add your own horrible examples...
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
"You have to wait for the reveal at the end."
"It's a new build...."
You are apparently a gear-head like me: Both of those phrases were originated by Ryan Friedlinghausen, host and owner of West Coast Customs, a US television programme on a channel that specializes in interesting cars.
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
when these sorts of things
...when this sort of thing...
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
And then there are parameter/perimeter, reluctant/reticent, immensity/enormity and decimate/devastate.
And yes, we may occasionally begin a sentence with "and".
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Gareth
Shipmate
# 2494
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Posted
There's only one that bothers me, and thats confusing "insure" and "ensure."
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"Making fun of born-again Christians is like hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope."
P. J. O'Rourke
Posts: 345 | From: Chaos | Registered: Mar 2002
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busyknitter
Shipmate
# 2501
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Posted
I really hate when people say (or write) "myself" when they mean "me". ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Posts: 903 | From: The Wool Basket | Registered: Mar 2002
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
After 80% of the buildings within the CBD in Christchurch had either fallen down or were deemed unsafe and demolished, we now have The Rebuild inflicted on us.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
There's nothing new to see here. "Contact" went in the dictionary as a noun a long time ago.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
And then there are parameter/perimeter, reluctant/reticent, immensity/enormity and decimate/devastate.
And yes, we may occasionally begin a sentence with "and".
discreet/discrete.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
My personal peeve is 'impact' used to mean 'affect'. What is wrong with 'affect'?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
Another couple of personal hates in the sporting field:
Noun as verb: to "medal" - this one was prevalent at the London Olympics.
Verb as noun: "It's a big ask" meaning (presumably) it's a lot to ask.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Many people do not understand that effect and affect are two different words.
And on an otherwise literate blog, the writer couldn't see what was wrong about using principal when it was obvious that principle was meant.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Many people do not understand that effect and affect are two different words.
Four different words, as they mean something different as nouns than as verbs.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Oh, and I hate it when it is obvious that a hardcover book was edited using spell check.
Dialogue: Here, here! (for Hear, hear!)
I was contemplating buying a book, but when the dustjacket! used who's when the context of the sentence obviously showed that whose was meant.
I put it back on the shelf.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
As an English teacher (retired apart from annual fun with words with gifted 13-year-olds) I've had to accept that every language is in constant flux. But the loss of important shades of meaning is what I cannot abide. Even reputable novelists and senior journalists don't know when to use 'might have'.
Which of these two women is dead?
Seat belt may have saved woman's life.
Seat belt might have saved woman's life.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
quote:
Noun as verb: to "medal" - this one was prevalent at the London Olympics.
My grandson can see nothing wrong in "versing " another team. We are versing xyz on Saturday. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Many people do not understand that effect and affect are two different words.
Four different words, as they mean something different as nouns than as verbs.
I consider myself chastised. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lothlorien:
quote:
Noun as verb: to "medal" - this one was prevalent at the London Olympics.
My grandson can see nothing wrong in "versing " another team. We are versing xyz on Saturday.
Shouldn't it be "versusing"?
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kittyville
Shipmate
# 16106
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Posted
Lothlorien - I have a colleague who says "verse" when he means "versus", which annoys me more than it probably should.
Posts: 291 | From: Sydney | Registered: Dec 2010
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
"Going forward" when not applied to a moving object. I've discovered that you can take "going forward" out of most sentences, and the meaning is still perfectly clear going forward.
quote:
Originally posted by Lothlorien:
quote:
Noun as verb: to "medal" - this one was prevalent at the London Olympics.
My grandson can see nothing wrong in "versing " another team. We are versing xyz on Saturday.
Excellent. I’m glad to hear the Poetic Muse is flourishing in his part of the world. I shall think of him as he boldly strides forth, scroll in hand, to declaim his beautifully composed verses to the other team. That’s a clear sign of the true sporting spirit, not only being able to praise the opposing team, but to do so in poetic metre and scansion. Let him verse his opposing team, by all means.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Meg the Red
Shipmate
# 11838
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Posted
I despair for the Old Mother Tomgue when I read that an actress "shined" in her latest role, or that someone's bad behaviour had to be "reigned" in. (I suppose the latter could be applied to a situation in which HRH finds it necessary to curb a young royal's misconduct.)
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Chocoholic Canuckistani Cyclopath
Posts: 1126 | From: Rat Creek | Registered: Sep 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
My personal peeve is 'impact' used to mean 'affect'. What is wrong with 'affect'?
It's not "impactful" enough. (Used to get that horror at work.)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
'Going forward' means 'We stuffed up, but we're never going to discuss it again'. Usually appears after 'draw a line under it' or 'draw a line in the sand' (which is an odd metaphor if you are talking about leaving the past alone; lines in the sand get washed away).
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
Inspirational. No. You mean inspiring.
Moisturisation. No. You mean moisturising (or possibly just moisture, depending on your context) - and don't even think of putting a z in there if you're in the UK.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
One of my friends uses ...'s... for every plural he writes. It drives me batty.
Once, I was a bit mean and posted on his FB page that a kitten or puppy dies every time he does that. (He's an animal lover.) He didn't write anything for days! (Or should that be day's?!) ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
Inspirational. No. You mean inspiring.
Moisturisation. No. You mean moisturising (or possibly just moisture, depending on your context) - and don't even think of putting a z in there if you're in the UK.
Don't know how to break this to you, but -ze is considered perfectly acceptable by Oxford.
Also, I don't mind "stomp" - it seems (to me) to have a bit more force to it than "stamp". "Going forward" can just go right back to where it came from and stay there, though: the most irritating, pointless, jargon-y phrase it's possible to imagine. There's very rarely, if ever, any justification for using it unless you're actually physically moving in a forward direction (and even then...)
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
defuse/diffuse
I have seen this sentence in newspapers. "The police diffused the bomb."
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
Inspirational. No. You mean inspiring.
Moisturisation. No. You mean moisturising (or possibly just moisture, depending on your context) - and don't even think of putting a z in there if you're in the UK.
Don't know how to break this to you, but -ze is considered perfectly acceptable by Oxford.
Couldn't care less.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Distressingly, that style bible The Economist has not only started making "data" plural, but also seems to have de-adverbified "importantly".
Two separate articles in this week's edition begin sentences with "More important, this has..." etc. But why?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
Don't know how to break this to you, but -ze is considered perfectly acceptable by Oxford.
Couldn't care less.
Fair enough, though the point is it is originally British English, not American.
I do prefer -ise, though - I guess just what I've grown up with.
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
Couldn't care less.
Thank you for not saying "I could care less" to which my response is usually "What stops you?"
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Distressingly, that style bible The Economist has not only started making "data" plural, but also seems to have de-adverbified "importantly".
Two separate articles in this week's edition begin sentences with "More important, this has..." etc. But why?
Data is plural though (plural of datum) - it's just that it's widely become accepted as singular as well.
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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burlingtontiger
Apprentice
# 18069
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Posted
A lot of people now use 'of' instead of 'have' e.g. "I should of done that".
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"If this goes on, my beloved 'earers, it will be my painful duty to rot this bargee"
Posts: 31 | From: Yorkshire, England | Registered: Apr 2014
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
An interesting phrase I overheard in the office today was "If we do [omitted for confidentiality] then we end up with this starting point."
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I have seen this sentence in newspapers. "The police diffused the bomb."
The police have also been known to talk about forensicating a crime scene - and it really was them (overheard on Radio 4), not just the newspaper reporting it badly.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Distressingly, that style bible The Economist has not only started making "data" plural, but also seems to have de-adverbified "importantly".
Two separate articles in this week's edition begin sentences with "More important, this has..." etc. But why?
Because that's good English. They're not saying this was done in a more important way. They're saying that this point is more important.
The way they said it is the right way. Saying "more importantly" is to adverbify an adjective without warrant. It is wrong.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
Don't know how to break this to you, but -ze is considered perfectly acceptable by Oxford.
Couldn't care less.
Fair enough, though the point is it is originally British English, not American.
I do prefer -ise, though - I guess just what I've grown up with.
![[Smile]](smile.gif) There is an interesting question in there about whether - or after how long - something that goes out of use and comes back in is a neologism. My reaction is based on what I have been used to - for me it grates unless the source is genuinely American. I think when you read a lot something changing for no apparent reason is quite abrasive.
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie: quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Distressingly, that style bible The Economist has not only started making "data" plural, but also seems to have de-adverbified "importantly".
Data is plural though (plural of datum) - it's just that it's widely become accepted as singular as well.
I was dying to say this, but having stuck out my lip petulantly about -ize endings I felt I couldn't! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) I have been proof reading a lot of academic work recently and every time I see 'the data show...' my hair stands on end - but I know it's right, and that matters to me. It's torture.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
In the mid-seventies in the comments book in the computer centre of Cambridge University (which used an IBM mainframe):
quote:
In IBMese any noun can be verbed
The verbing of nouns dates back quote a way, I think.
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
Can I just add 'pitting', as in 'Lewis Hamilton is pitting earlier than expected'. It is doubly wrong. Not only is it turning a noun into a verb, but by doing so it is creating a verb that already exists and means something else entirely.
Just. Don't. Do. It.
Thank you for starting the thread Ariel. I hadn't realised how much my inner pedant was seething and struggling to get free.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
What is this trend to use verbs as nouns?
"It's a new build."
This has been used in the computer/software industry for at least 25 years. Probably longer.
quote:
And this horrible trend towards contractions?
"I've prepped the onions."
I have to confess, I don't see what's wrong with this one.
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
Can I just add 'pitting', as in 'Lewis Hamilton is pitting earlier than expected'. It is doubly wrong. Not only is it turning a noun into a verb, but by doing so it is creating a verb that already exists and means something else entirely.
The already-quoted verb 'to medal' (meaning 'to win a medal' is a close homophone to 'to meddle'. "She medalled/meddled in the ladies shot-put" has a certain ambiguity.
Adding another pet hate: "my bad" (I have been known to ask "your bad what?")
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
This is a good way to wind me up. I have a long list of verbal atrocities that annoy me. Latest addition (No. 49):
Legacy: Applied to anything from computer software to aircraft engines.
Meaning: Our old product is still good, but we gave it this reverent title so we could make more money from our gullible customers with its unnecessary replacement.
A dangerous one in church organisation as well as in business is (No.10):
Synergy: As in “We must mobilise our synergies in this program”.
Meaning: “I haven’t a clue - what do you know about this stuff?”
And how about "Dis-benefit"? (from British Energy).
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
defuse/diffuse
I have seen this sentence in newspapers. "The police diffused the bomb."
Moo
Presumably if the police hadn't interfered the bomb would have, er, diffused itself...
I'm with GG on may/might. I don't understand why people get it wrong: it's really not that difficult (or at least, it's really not that difficult to know when you can't use 'may').
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
Can I just add 'pitting', as in 'Lewis Hamilton is pitting earlier than expected'. It is doubly wrong. Not only is it turning a noun into a verb, but by doing so it is creating a verb that already exists and means something else entirely.
Just. Don't. Do. It.
And to me it suggests that he's eating olives while he's driving- which is just bloody dangerous.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
Data is plural though (plural of datum) - it's just that it's widely become accepted as singular as well.
Data is plural in Latin. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
And this horrible trend towards contractions?
"I've prepped the onions."
This usage, in the restaurant business at least, goes back decades.
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
This is a good way to wind me up. I have a long list of verbal atrocities that annoy me. Latest addition (No. 49):
Legacy: Applied to anything from computer software to aircraft engines.
Meaning: Our old product is still good, but we gave it this reverent title so we could make more money from our gullible customers with its unnecessary replacement.
When I worked in the computer biz, "legacy" meant "the damned old stuff we wish to God we could get rid of, but it would be prohibitively expensive, so we're stuck with this shit."
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
Which of these two women is dead?
Seat belt may have saved woman's life.
Seat belt might have saved woman's life.
Good point!
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I've always regarded language, even written language, as more a matter of style than of rules. I confess I rather like "invite" for "invitation" and "prep" for "prepare" - new words and forms have helped make English the incomparably rich treasury that it is.
As for -ize and -ise, didn't there used to be a rule about whether the word they were attached to came from the Greek or the Latin? Or am I - pardon the neologism - misremembering?
But then there are the Manifest Wrongnesses - 'of' for 'have', 'diffuse' for 'defuse'. When I see things like this, I have an urge to get all Ghenghis on the perpetrators' asses. The Grocer's Apostrophe, however, like the poor, will be with us always. I recently saw a sign on a café advertising "BREAKFAST'S SANDWICHE'S LUNCHE'S". I thought they were taking the pis's.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
quote:
And this horrible trend towards contractions?
"I've prepped the onions."
I have to confess, I don't see what's wrong with this one.
The verb is "prepare". Why shorten it in this childish way? Is “prepare” too difficult to pronounce, or too long a word?
Or, reading that over, perps prep is too diff to pron?
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
The police have also been known to talk about forensicating a crime scene - and it really was them (overheard on Radio 4), not just the newspaper reporting it badly.
Presumably after the place had been "burglarized". A while ago I came across a sentence on a news site about how the police had been called in to investigate some kind of trouble at an airport. "The passengers were de-planed and canines taken on board."
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Because that's good English. They're not saying this was done in a more important way. They're saying that this point is more important.
The way they said it is the right way. Saying "more importantly" is to adverbify an adjective without warrant. It is wrong.
I disagree. If they said "the more important point is that..." then that would be ok. But "More important," qualifies what comes next. So it should be an adverb.
More becomingly, The Economist begins sentences with "More oddly,". It should keep on doing the same with "More importantly,".
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
[tangent] Welcome burlingtontiger! Thank you for posting here. I see you have already posted on the Welcome thread in All Saints, which is a marvelous way to dip your toe in. [/tangent]
jedijudy
One of the Heaven Hosts
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
How about the subjunctive?
quote:
If my cousin would have been at the party, things would be different.
No, people, it's "had been." No "would" involved in that phrase, except between your ears.
I used to work in a place where the copyeditors got this wrong.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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