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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Cheechus
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Consider yourself honored as you could count the number of people I've called here on one hand (and I later felt guilty about one of them).
Your stupid post.
Enough with the allegations of racism just because someone disagrees with Obama.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
To thread necromancy we have to consider whether you have been PWD. WTF?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
Angel Moroni in hell. This is going to be a pre-Christmas treat better than Joseph Smith's Amazon delivery.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
I live to serve.
Please carry on.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I'm clearly a dumb Brit, but the linked post doesn't accuse anyone of racism? I even went and read the thread (well, some of the more "recent"* posts anyway) to anything racist and find myself none the wiser.
Yours,
Confused of Old Blighty.
* relatively speaking. Some were a few months old, but that's what happens when someone posts an inane comment solely for the purpose of reviving a thread. Which is even more bizarre when one does that acknowledging that the thread is lame.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
How do you derive the name 'cheechus'? If you want to make 'Crœsos' look silly via his screen name then just leave it as it is.
Anyone who is pretentious enough to use a ligature in his screen name ought to know that the name of the King of Lydia is Croesus with a U in Latin, and the Greek version of his name is best transliterated Kroisos or Croisos with an OI.
'Crœsus' is a hybrid bastardisation comparable in barbarity to the word 'television'.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
By the way there is a difference between Classism and racism. I would say classifying a classist slur as racist is a sign of racism.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
'Crœsus' is a hybrid bastardisation comparable in barbarity to the word 'television'.
Ok, I look stupid now. Crœsus would be ok, it's Crœsos (i.e. what he actually calls himself) that is the barbarism.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I'm clearly a dumb Brit, but the linked post doesn't accuse anyone of racism?
Presumably 'uppity' is a reference to an uppity negro, with ideas above his station, &c.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Presumably 'uppity' is a reference to an uppity negro, with ideas above his station, &c.
I've never thought of "uppity" as being specific to any race? Surely anyone can be uppity?
I think it's an American thing. I'm sure one of our American cousins will be able to explain better than I can.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
By the way there is a difference between Classism and racism. I would say classifying a classist slur as racist is a sign of racism.
Jengie
Depends on the context. In the UK, it's purely a piece of classist abuse. In the US, it comes with a whole load of additional baggage. Particularly if a white person is using it about a black person. (See here). Racist and classist!
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Depends on the context. In the UK, it's purely a piece of classist abuse. In the US, it comes with a whole load of additional baggage. Particularly if a white person is using it about a black person. (See here). Racist and classist!
Tubbs
What Tubbs said. Hereabouts, it's classist abuse with the implication of racism when directed against a minority; it has roots in the South of a generation or so ago when blacks seen as acting above their station (in other words, like whites) were seen as being/called "uppity".
TL;DR - if you called a black person "uppity" around here, you'd likely get punched in the mouth.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Another word I use in ignorant innocence - I use 'uppity' like a mild version of 'arrogant'.
Ho hum, pig's bum
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I'm clearly a dumb Brit, but the linked post doesn't accuse anyone of racism? I even went and read the thread (well, some of the more "recent"* posts anyway) to anything racist and find myself none the wiser.
Yours,
Confused of Old Blighty.
* relatively speaking. Some were a few months old, but that's what happens when someone posts an inane comment solely for the purpose of reviving a thread. Which is even more bizarre when one does that acknowledging that the thread is lame.
Uppity was often used as an adjective to describe an African-American (insert the N-word) who didn't "know their place."
So, Croesus was trying to shut down debate by accusing moron of racism. Croesus doesn't want a good faith debate over anything because he's a troll. The other option is that Croesus has an extraordinary inability to comprehend the meaning of sentences written by people who disagree with him. I'm going with troll.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I'm going with troll.
Gee, why doesn't it surprise me that Beeswax Altar is defending racism?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I'm going with troll.
Gee, why doesn't it surprise me that Beeswax Altar is defending racism?
I think that's a different hell call. He also approves of torture.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I'm going with troll.
Gee, why doesn't it surprise me that Beeswax Altar is defending racism?
Allegations of racism aside, I concur with BA here. Crœsos has shown, every time I've been involved in a discussion with him, to only be interested in blowing smoke, not discussing/debating in good faith.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Allegations of racism aside, I concur with BA here. Crœsos has shown, every time I've been involved in a discussion with him, to only be interested in blowing smoke, not discussing/debating in good faith.
An example or two might help. My own experience with Crœsos is that he enters his frays well-supplied with facts, figures, and links to support whatever position he's taken. Or is that what you mean by "blowing smoke?"
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Allegations of racism aside, I concur with BA here. Crœsos has shown, every time I've been involved in a discussion with him, to only be interested in blowing smoke, not discussing/debating in good faith.
Agreed. He's one of only a few shipmates I've ever considered calling to hell (I still never got round to calling anyone). He has an uncanny ability to misrepresent other posters on a regular basis. Which is frustrating, because he obviously is well researched and knows a lot, and can be very insightful.
It was after one thread where Croesos put words into my mouth or misrepresented me at least twelve times (can't remember exactly how many now, but I kept count at the time) that I decided that engaging wasn't worth the hassle, so I tend not to. Since then, I've seen him do the same to many other posters. That kind of behaviour just comes back to bite you on the bum in the end.
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Allegations of racism aside, I concur with BA here. Crœsos has shown, every time I've been involved in a discussion with him, to only be interested in blowing smoke, not discussing/debating in good faith.
An example or two might help. My own experience with Crœsos is that he enters his frays well-supplied with facts, figures, and links to support whatever position he's taken. Or is that what you mean by "blowing smoke?"
Here's a recent example from the Ferguson thread:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Third, this issue does not just arise in a racial context. I see it everywhere. I've seen it in my own city. There is a simple reasoning process that I see repeatedly: that someone died, and the death was tragic, so therefore the death must be someone's fault.
This reasoning process is rarely articulated, but it is present over and over again. "Fault" isn't even always criminal. Sometimes it's about suing. Just last week, our High Court decided a case where a mentally ill man killed his friend after being discharged from hospital, and the deceased's relatives were trying to sue the hospital. They lost. The hospital did not owe the kind of duty necessary for the suit to be successful.
It is entirely possible for someone to be responsible for a senseless, tragic death. But that responsibility requires proof. It is also entirely possible for a senseless, tragic death to occur for which no particular person is to blame, or for which the dead person is just as much to blame as anyone else. The reason I get so uncomfortable about these cases is that the latter possibilities never seem to be where the majority opinion ends up. The finger always points somewhere.
Or in shorter version: Why do these unarmed black men keep shooting themselves?
Orfeo's trying to engage with the subject in good faith, and Croesos's response was just to make out that he said, well, something that he never came close to saying, and probably doesn't agree with.
Yeah, I agree he's well supplied with facts and figures - and often insight. But it's the disingenuous way that he misrepresents other posters that makes him really shitty to engage with. The above style is his standard MO - sarcastically 'summing up' someone else's post to make it say something that they never said. Once you've been on the receiving end of it a few times, it doesn't matter how many facts and figures he has (or how right he is - sometimes I find myself on the same side of an argument as him, sometimes the other), you just don't want to engage in good faith with him any more.
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Another word I use in ignorant innocence - I use 'uppity' like a mild version of 'arrogant'.
Here in the UK I think the associations of the word for most people are someone wearing filthy rich and wearing a top hat and monocle, and shaped like a kidney bean. Although Mr Uppity is dark brown.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Another word I use in ignorant innocence - I use 'uppity' like a mild version of 'arrogant'.
Here in the UK I think the associations of the word for most people are someone wearing filthy rich and wearing a top hat and monocle, and shaped like a kidney bean. Although Mr Uppity is dark brown.
YES! He was also pink and purple depending on which book or TV adaption you watched.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
That is certainly also my association with Mr Uppity. One of the Mr Men I never really liked. The North American connotation went right passed me in the thread, so I would never have picked up on the racist dimension. Even then, I don't think it was worth a hell call.
That said, Obama's 19th-Century presidential ideal, although of lighter complexion, also wore a top hat.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Which is even more bizarre when one does that acknowledging that the thread is lame.
Recent events dictated I should 'unlame' it.
And JUST see where it's gotten us.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Allegations of racism aside, I concur with BA here. Crœsos has shown, every time I've been involved in a discussion with him, to only be interested in blowing smoke, not discussing/debating in good faith.
An example or two might help. My own experience with Crœsos is that he enters his frays well-supplied with facts, figures, and links to support whatever position he's taken. Or is that what you mean by "blowing smoke?"
Pick any thread having anything to do with gun control, for starters.
goperryrevs' experience (as illustrated by the quote he provided) has been mine as well - nothing but misrepresentations and innuendo from Crœsos. If one can't debate without those, it really doesn't matter if one has facts and figures, does it?
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Well now. I spend a pleasant, if brisk, afternoon in my mum's garden pruning bushes and raking leaves, and wondering where all the Hellions had gone.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Ok , I can believe Tubbs would use the word "uppity" in innocence. Same with Boogie. But someone who spends as much time discussing race and politics as Croesos does? i have a much harder time believing he didn't know it was a loaded word.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Oh, I am certain Crœsos used it in the manner represented in the OP.
I would defend moron by saying he was as likely being a hypocritical, conservative tool as he was being a racist tool.
ETA: And I would defend Crœsos by saying that many hypocritical, conservative tools are also racist tools. Lot of admix in there.
[ 12. December 2014, 16:45: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Well, any of you (including moron) can Styx us Purg Hosts for missing a possible C3 offence by play on words.
(With apologies to HellHosts for a general Hostly point).
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yeah they're both tools. But Moron puts a bug pretty far up my ass, so this was a good opportunity to test my objectivity.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Backatcha Doc.
(note to self: 'moron: The Armed Hypocritical Conservative Barbarian Tool' has potential)
Nod to Kelly for the mental image. ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Still waiting for Cheechus.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
Still waiting for Cheechus.
Does he know that's what you call him? If not, then he won't know this is directed at him just by seeing the thread title.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
For some reason I just assumed he was fairly familiar with the word, and the thread. <shrug>
PM sent.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Man, I am so disappointed this thread has nothing to do with Mr. Marin. Words fail me almost as much as the title did.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I'm going with troll.
Gee, why doesn't it surprise me that Beeswax Altar is defending racism?
Allegations of racism aside, I concur with BA here. Crœsos has shown, every time I've been involved in a discussion with him, to only be interested in blowing smoke, not discussing/debating in good faith.
My own view is that he is an pain in the arse*, but he's a pain in the arse who cares about shit like truth and justice so I tend to regard him as making an actual contribution and not wasting bandwidth. FWIW, I found the 'uppity' remark mildly amusing and not wholly without foundation. YMMV
*Chorus of Shipmates: But surely Callan, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, if we can use such an analogy in this context?
Callan: [peers over top of spectacles] Do tell!
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I'm going with troll.
Gee, why doesn't it surprise me that Beeswax Altar is defending racism?
Wait, calling Croesus a troll counts as defending racism now?
Have you ever tried to disagree with him?
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Allegations of racism aside, I concur with BA here. Crœsos has shown, every time I've been involved in a discussion with him, to only be interested in blowing smoke, not discussing/debating in good faith.
An example or two might help. My own experience with Crœsos is that he enters his frays well-supplied with facts, figures, and links to support whatever position he's taken. Or is that what you mean by "blowing smoke?"
He also enters with an extraordinary ability to argue that grey is black.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
In fact, I've just realised something.
A couple of days on an Australian news site, I wrote a comment expressing my frustration about how some posters would complete ignore any nuance or distinction in their quest to divide everybody into 2 teams and score points. And the stupidity of the logic that says that if you criticise a person on one 'team', you MUST be on the other 'team'.
It's just hit me. The subject of this Hellcall is the chief proponent of this mindset on the Ship. And I bloody hate it. Even though I'm frequently nearer to being on his 'team' than not. Crœsos is the worst kind of fool, a terribly smart one that uses his intelligence in an utterly dumb way.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
My own view is that he is an pain in the arse*, but he's a pain in the arse who cares about shit like truth and justice so I tend to regard him as making an actual contribution and not wasting bandwidth.
IME people who care about shit like truth and justice don't deliberately misinterpret others in a petty attempt to score emotional manipulation points and "win" on a superficial level.
YMMV
(AFAICT, you don't do that, but Croesus certainly does. Either that or he really is stupid but highly trained.)
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Allegations of racism aside, I concur with BA here. Crœsos has shown, every time I've been involved in a discussion with him, to only be interested in blowing smoke, not discussing/debating in good faith.
An example or two might help. My own experience with Crœsos is that he enters his frays well-supplied with facts, figures, and links to support whatever position he's taken. Or is that what you mean by "blowing smoke?"
He also enters with an extraordinary ability to argue that grey is black.
Done best when one is in the dark.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I agree with Moron on just about nothing, but anyone who calls Croesos to hell is alright by me. I think it's a sign of the tolerance of the ship that he doesn't get called here more often.
Intelligent he may be, but I regard Croesos as one of the most tiresome posters on the ship for his constant assumptions of bad faith.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Uppity was often used as an adjective to describe an African-American (insert the N-word) who didn't "know their place."
So, Croesus was trying to shut down debate by accusing moron of racism. Croesus doesn't want a good faith debate over anything because he's a troll. The other option is that Croesus has an extraordinary inability to comprehend the meaning of sentences written by people who disagree with him. I'm going with troll.
This.
I struggle a bit to understand how anyone could fail to see that post in its context as anything other than a snide insinuation of racism against moron. Seriously, guys? Which is why - as soon as I read it - I posted the response I did immediately after it.
Of course, Croesus is free to come on over and tell us I've got that all wrong - but since it would be a sin to invite someone to perjure themselves, I won't double-dog-dare him to do so. Alternatively, he could try to justify his calling moron a racist. I'm not holding my breath on either score.
I think Croesus is a jerk, frankly.
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
I dunno.
It may be different outside the US, but within these borders, claiming “I’m not a racist” (no “but” intended or implied here) is pretty much a knee-jerk response to any intimation by anyone that one is in fact a racist. (Granted, there are some people/groups who will proudly advance racist notions – neo-Nazis, troglodytes, etc.) Your mainstream citizen, though, knows that embracing racism Is Wrong, and will deny committing any such thought-crime.
Here’s the thing, though: a pretty deep, sharp divide continues to exist between and among US people, racially speaking. The divide is economic, cultural, educational, political, occupational, experiential, and on and on. White privilege actually exists (though it’s beginning to erode, much to the dismayed surprise of many white people, who are only just beginning to notice this). Many people simply do not experience ordinary everyday life in ways that closely resemble each other. People do not, as our ideals promise us, all have the same opportunities; the array of “choices” available to various people is just not the same. People cannot (and do not) make the same set of assumptions about the world when they live in high-crime inner-city neighborhoods run by gangs, versus isolated Native American reservations situated on land nobody else wants, versus nice, quiet suburbs with two-car garages and special SAT prep classes.
Most of us form our ideas about “the world” based on our own experience, and one result can be unconscious racism. No, white people are not running around lynching black people on any regular basis, or even necessarily badmouthing members of non-white groups. But when the one lone black kid in your son’s Ivory Soap high school class makes the team and your son doesn’t, isn’t it tempting to wonder if it’s due to affirmative action or even reverse racism rather than maybe the other kid has more basketball chops than your son does? When one of the only 3 Latinas (Asians, African-Americans, fill-in-as-appropriate) in your daughter’s class gets into Harvard and your daughter doesn’t, do similar questions arise? When the black female job candidate gets the promotion and you, a white male, don’t, do you wonder?
Is it racist to entertain such questions? How many whites find such questions arising for them? No white person with sense will ask such questions out loud; does that mean they’re not racist? I freely admit to being personally flummoxed by this stuff. When some white person says things like this to me privately, assuming I’m on the same page they are because I’m of the same race – itself a racist assumption – do I know how to respond? Do I always respond in a racist, or perhaps non-racist, way?
I rarely agree with moron on anything. I don’t know if he’s a racist. He posts things sometimes that strike me as coming from a position of white privilege. It’s possible Croesos is merely readier than I am to point out what he sincerely believes to be (and might actually be, but how do I know?) unconscious racism. There’s a fair amount of that infection going around these United States.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
In fact, I've just realised something.
A couple of days on an Australian news site, I wrote a comment expressing my frustration about how some posters would complete ignore any nuance or distinction in their quest to divide everybody into 2 teams and score points. And the stupidity of the logic that says that if you criticise a person on one 'team', you MUST be on the other 'team'.
It's just hit me. The subject of this Hellcall is the chief proponent of this mindset on the Ship. And I bloody hate it. Even though I'm frequently nearer to being on his 'team' than not. Crœsos is the worst kind of fool, a terribly smart one that uses his intelligence in an utterly dumb way.
Yes, that nail got hit on the head. I had an interaction with him/her that involved relentlessly obtuse straw-manning, which only ceased when I indicated that the next instance would lead to a Hell call.
Though on this occasion, the comment that led to the OP just made me chuckle.
[ 13. December 2014, 14:31: Message edited by: Dark Knight ]
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Odd. I think Croesos doesn't assume good faith, which is why he probes a lot. I suppose he may polarise discussions and seek to illuminate the fallacies as he sees them of opposing views, but he's far from being the only one who does that. There is not much consensus-building in Purg.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
That post re consensus building disturbs me, B62. i want you to be wrong on that. Not sure if you are or are not.
I will cogitate. But I would comment that conflict can be a part of reaching a consensus, when used properly.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
With regard to assorted "isms," Croesos may be operating from the same basic assumption which I do: US culture has "ism-itis" as part of its DNA. As products of our culture, almost none of us can escape being "trained" into "isms," including racism (which also can include the kind of self-hatred which racism can induce). It therefore takes long, hard, deep work, including a lot of self-examination, to counteract.
I happen to work in a field which requires self-examination in order to carry it out with any effectiveness. Not everyone gets this opportunity, and not everyone, even if they get the opportunity, embraces it.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I'm going with troll.
Gee, why doesn't it surprise me that Beeswax Altar is defending racism?
Wait, calling Croesus a troll counts as defending racism now?
Depending upon context, yes. Context. Ever heard of it?
quote:
Have you ever tried to disagree with him?
Many times.
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
My own view is that he is an pain in the arse*, but he's a pain in the arse who cares about shit like truth and justice so I tend to regard him as making an actual contribution and not wasting bandwidth.
IME people who care about shit like truth and justice don't deliberately misinterpret others in a petty attempt to score emotional manipulation points and "win" on a superficial level.
YMMV
(AFAICT, you don't do that, but Croesus certainly does. Either that or he really is stupid but highly trained.)
Oh. I thought Callan was talking about BA, and I was about to agree with your counter-assessment. Guess it fits both of them.
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Crœsos is the worst kind of fool, a terribly smart one that uses his intelligence in an utterly dumb way.
Not sure what you mean by "dumb" way. For dumb ends? An annoying way? A disingenuous way?
quote:
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
I struggle a bit to understand how anyone could fail to see that post in its context as anything other than a snide insinuation of racism against moron.
Was the post in Hell? Because, I mean, moron *IS* a racist, or at least says myriad racist things and defends them to the hilt (but see my next comment), and I've never heard him condemn racism or admit that he may have said something racist and apologize. So snide insinuations aren't even needed. If this was outside Hell, then it might have been more appropriately dealt with by a PM to a host.
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
It may be different outside the US, but within these borders, claiming “I’m not a racist” (no “but” intended or implied here) is pretty much a knee-jerk response to any intimation by anyone that one is in fact a racist.
I'd say that part of the problem is that people hear "that's a racist thing to say" and think they have heard "you are a racist thug who probably wears a white sheet and burns crosses in your spare evenings." Since they know they don't belong to the KKK, and they know racism is wrong, they reject the idea "that was a racist thing to say." As a result, NOTHING is a racist thing to say, and SHAZAAM! we're a post-racist society.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Odd. I think Croesos doesn't assume good faith, which is why he probes a lot. I suppose he may polarise discussions and seek to illuminate the fallacies as he sees them of opposing views, but he's far from being the only one who does that. There is not much consensus-building in Purg.
I don't think it's an issue whether Croesus probes and seeks to expose fallacies. He does these things which, as you say, others do also.
What is at issue is whether he does so constructively, or is only here to score cheap points. Now and again, I reckon he does the latter, but he's not alone in that either, and once one has established a reputation for cheapshots, people will scroll past.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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