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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Looking for positive, joyful spiritual dusciplines.
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Not sure if this goes here or purg.
Through the years and the tour of denominations I have often said "church is boring" and consistently got the response "Yes church is boring but you have to go." Shipmates have said variations of "it's supposed to be boring, offputting, draining, meaningless, that's what makes it a spiritual discipline."
Which raises the topic of spiritual disciplines. Hair shirts are out of fashion but sign up for the 2 AM slot in the all night vigil. Give 'til it hurts. Sacrifice.
Protest "where's the abundant life in all this" and they scold you for supposedly being a self-centered pleasure seeker.
I'm looking for spiritual disciplines that encourage growing in "abundant life" and "your joy may be full." The more full of life and joy I am the more my presence on this planet feeds life to others. (People who see life as dull duty are boring wet blankets, not life givers.)
Not finding joy-oriented spiritual disciplines in churches, I'm looking elsewhere.
New age people are big on gratitude, focus on the good in your life and you'll become more aware of good surrounding you. Neurologists say you have to think pleasant thoughts to turn on your parasympathetic system which allows your body and brain to heal from the wearing down of living.
This one resonates with me, focus on gratitude is physically and emotionally health producing, which is energizing, all of which is spiritually healthier than focus on "duty" and "sacrifice!"
What are some other positive spiritual disciples that help one grow in delighting in life and people (and for those who believe, God)?
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jrw
Shipmate
# 18045
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Posted
We could all stop trying to force our own idea of spiritual discipline down everyone elses throats. That would be a good form of spiritual discipline in itself and I'm sure would benefit both ourselves and others.
Posts: 522 | Registered: Mar 2014
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Hilda of Whitby
Shipmate
# 7341
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
What are some other positive spiritual disciples that help one grow in delighting in life and people (and for those who believe, God)?
Buddhist "metta" (loving-kindness) meditation springs to mind:
http://www.contemplativemind.org/practices/tree/loving-kindness
Briefly:
Breathe deeply a few times to center yourself.
You start by cultivating loving-kindness towards yourself by silently repeating things like 'may I be happy; may I be at ease; may I be safe; may I be well", etc.
Then towards a person whom you love ('may he/she be happy ...')
Then towards a "neutral" person. This is someone whom you see around but don't know personally and have no feelings for one way or the other--like the mail carrier or a clerk at the grocery store ('may he/she be happy ...')
Then towards a person whom you dislike or whom you think means you harm ('may he/she be happy ...')
Then towards all sentient beings everywhere in the universe--people and animals. ('may they be happy ...')
There is a Buddhist sutra/sutta (scriptural passage) about metta. It's beautiful:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.1.08.amar.html
Metta meditation is a truly profound practice that helps develop compassion and caring towards others and one's self. It's extremely positive and I find that it greatly improves my sense of well-being. Belief in a deity is not required.
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"Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad."
Posts: 412 | From: Nickel City | Registered: Jun 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
What are some other positive spiritual disciples that help one grow in delighting in life and people (and for those who believe, God)?
Interesting and challenging question. I suppose we can only respond personally what works for us. I find life, in my own experience, is a fairly graduated experience. Sometimes what works well for me spiritually at one time, doesn't press the right buttons at another time. Circumstances, environment, feelings, health etc, colour the experience. Eg, I'm not big into spiritual 'exercises' but find my spirituality fed by certain kinds of music, great countryside and good companionship. But nothing uniformly and unfailingly puts me in that happy place. My mind and my will have to play their part, too.
So, mainly I see spirituality as an ongoing development in one's personality, rather than a series of happy episodes to keep me smiling. Therefore, developing an authentic (I suppose one might say 'positive') spirituality is about relationship with others, responding to challenges, dealing with troubles, exploiting opportunities for good experiences - such as the gratitude for good things Belle Ringer speaks of.
No doubt there are spiritual disciplines which when submitted to or developed into a regular part of one's life make a positive difference. But if it's not about enhancing relationships, deepening our understanding and compassion of others, and recognizing (from a Christian point of view) Christ in others wherever that may be, I can't see them as being up to that much. The curse of being a pragmatist!
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
A lot of people speak highly of mindfulness in everyday activities.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
Not sure if it counts, but I know a number of folk who have done exercises like "List 5 things you're thankful for" daily for a period. Or one thing a day for a month etc.
I lack consistency, but I've noticed it make a difference to me if I actively try to identify the positive in something, not dwell on the negative because it gives me material for a good erudite rant, and similar things.
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
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Full Circle
Shipmate
# 15398
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Posted
Long ago in Sunday school I was taught the ACTS method of prayer (adoration, confession, thanks giving and supplication). This thread has made me realise how this pattern has changed over the years with my developing understanding of faith and relationship with church.
Currently adoration is best as a walk in the local woods - at best it is like psalm giving thanks for creation at worst cold, wet but health giving physically and mentally. Weekly mostly
Thanksgiving - deliberately especially if I am writing a diary but often haphazard but I do think it is life giving
Strangely I think supplication has mutated into service for me. I find it life enhancing to do something I think worthwhile for others.
Wishing you well, Belle Ringer as you find your new patterns. I also suggest small scale creativity in imitation of God who created the world as a health giving spiritual discipline
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Beware the monocausal fallacy (Anon)
Posts: 232 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2010
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
The three good things? I have seen that done in a secular setting on 365 photo projects. There people take a photo a day as a sort of diary project, and list three good things from each day.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
See if there is a Circle Dance group near you.
In my limited experience a session will involve some religious (could be any religion)and some secular dances. I've been to a weekly group led by a pagan and an occasional group led by a cathedral dean. The discipline element is learning and concentrating on the steps but the dance, when it gets going, can be sheer joy. Or profound meditation. Or sometimes too difficult or a bit boring, but you can sit out if there are any you don't like.
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
Rejection of the negative has often struck me as alarming. Especially after having resonated with
The gift of pain
Pedantically, deconstructing 'spiritual' and ' discipline' from a personal perspective may give an indicator of position.
Magical thinking is alarmingly idolised. Negating the strength of the physical and emotional.
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DOEPUBLIC:
Rejection of the negative has often struck me as alarming. Especially after having resonated with
The gift of pain
Well, yes, having once visited a leper colony I know pain is essential. But sometimes life goes through phases of "nothing but pain," that's not a healthy time to look for additional ways to "suffer, it's good for your soul!"
I'm rethinking "fasting" for example; back in the days when all food was healthy, fasting was a matter of choices between more or less tasty foods. Today when most food (in USA anyway) is unhealthy, perhaps one should consider a "fast" consisting of "I will eat only fresh and organic foods, mostly vegetables." A restricted diet but one that is physical health producing, which improves mood, both of which improve capability to do whatever one does; some of us think taking action to help physical and mental health correlates with spiritual health.
(Not "accidentally healthier people are spiritually healthier" but "those seeking to care for the physical and mental bodies God gave them to inhabit are spiritually healthier.")
And although giving up chocolate (unless organic?) might seem a deprivation, there would be lots of other tasty treats within this "fasting" diet. Why wouldn't that make more sense spiritually than "give up desserts (except on Sundays)" but keep eating junk food meals"? Not that anyone here eats junk food, of course.
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by DOEPUBLIC:
Rejection of the negative has often struck me as alarming. Especially after having resonated with
The gift of pain
Well, yes, having once visited a leper colony I know pain is essential. But sometimes life goes through phases of "nothing but pain," that's not a healthy time to look for additional ways to "suffer, it's good for your soul!"
.......
Indicating the poverty of compassion that exists.
A reality that no positive spin can evade. Sharing in suffering, without denial or false pretence or burdening. Beyond pride in discipline and resting on grace or mercy of spirit. Performance related religion, a disgrace that shackles.
A positive perception of physical discipline of breathing, rest, exercise and diet , is in short supply, though healthy.
[ 25. January 2015, 19:09: Message edited by: DOEPUBLIC ]
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DOEPUBLIC:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
having once visited a leper colony I know pain is essential. But sometimes life goes through phases of "nothing but pain," that's not a healthy time to look for additional ways to "suffer, it's good for your soul!"
.......
Indicating the poverty of compassion that exists.
A reality that no positive spin can evade. Sharing in suffering, without denial or false pretence or burdening. Beyond pride in discipline and resting on grace or mercy of spirit. Performance related religion, a disgrace that shackles.
A positive perception of physical discipline of breathing, rest, exercise and diet , is in short supply, though healthy.
Last night I had supper with a newly (suddenly, unexpectedly) widowed woman, only 55 years old, across the table a man with constant back pain and neuropathy foot pain as well as breathing problems, to my right a woman who spent a dozen years in prison for something she didn't do and can't get a job and is ineligible for any social system help because of the felony conviction.
Pain abounds. But it's impolite to mention pain. Unless the hurting people are on a different continent.
I don't know that this generation has it any worse than prior ages. Men have always gone off to war or sea and not come home, women have always died in childbirth and left the kids orphaned, kids used to commonly die in early childhood, diseases destroyed individuals, families, sometimes villages. People starve to death even today. I suspect girls (and boys) have always been trafficked.
I'm thinking we need to find ways to point people to glimpses they can see for themselves of beauty, pleasure, renewal, joy. Life abundant. Through or in spite of the pain. And be careful not to add to their load.
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
Maybe the need to 'point people towards' creates further disconnect. The depth of pain that you appear to be witnessing, surely cannot be overlooked in the name of politeness and glimpses of the positive. The contrast with pain is a reality everybody sees. Supported distraction doesn't relieve the burden. Compassion seeks clarity not denial. Institutional and structural expectations can feed community depression, hindering healthy expression.Coping cultures,birth institutional responses. Each person's journey is unique and precious, often painted to lightly.
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DOEPUBLIC:
Supported distraction doesn't relieve the burden. Compassion seeks clarity not denial. Institutional and structural expectations can feed community depression, hindering healthy expression.
What is clarity? That some are worse off than you? That your spouse and best friend for life is dead and you aren't sure why bother going on living?
Last year I first learned of the parasympathetic nervous system. Basically, negative thoughts and experiences turn on the fight or flight system and turn on adrenaline, shut down (or greatly slow down) the health producing system such a digestion and tissue repair and deep sleep. Pleasant experiences turn off the fight or flight and turn on the healing system.
You can't heal much while focused on pain and depression, which is why it's a downward cycle. Like you say, making light of it only alienates, makes lonely, which is another negative.
To heal, you need a glimpse of hope. A glimpse of you are loved. A kindness. A glimpse of beauty - a sunset, flowers, birdsong.
But better if there are things you can choose to do even if you don't feel like it that will help slowly pull you out of that whirlpool. Positive spiritual disciplines. Life and soul feeding.
In good times make life better, in bad times make life bearable.
Not the traditional "spiritual disciplines." They seem to think through pain and deprivation you will see holiness. I think many people have plenty enough enough pain and deprivation without seeking more! Gotta be another way.
Maybe for Lent this year I'll take up utterly healthy eating. Or gratitude meditation. Habits built before need are there to carry you during need.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
Clarity, is being clear and genuine, seeking resonance. Accepting and responding to where a person is, rather than avoiding. Synergy with the parasympatbetic is healthy when sought as an appropriate response. Attempting to substitute magic thinking and pretending it is reality colludes in deception.A physical response of breathing, resting, exercise or diet, as a positive engagement with the physical, allowing energy to resolve aspects of flight or fight triggered in the PERSONA or PERSONALISED SPACE.(How often have you heard a meditation tape, sermon etc tell you or even insist, that you must be in a place that you aren't. Or plead compassion on a self that should be denied)Denial of the trigger leaves the thorn in place.
Healthy resolution is better than unhealthy substitution.Resonance of pain, better than pain denial. Instability is rooted in false contact, connection and communication for interests other than those desired.Rational and Spiritual solutions are found wanting if they fail to account for the primary desires of the Physical and Emotional.
[ 26. January 2015, 05:03: Message edited by: DOEPUBLIC ]
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
Obviously discussion here is largely in sweeping generalisations, so tailoring to a specific situation is vital, but that said I think there's a world of difference between "magic thinking" and making a conscious effort to bring to mind an example of something good that happened during the day.
If one is not especially afflicted then actively choosing to bring to mind the positive without denying the negative can make a big shift in mood and outlook, and therefore potentially be enabling in dealing with the negative. That's not "think happy thoughts and all your problems melt away". It's just a subtle shift in outlook that can help the rubbish not become overwhelming, and generally make one a more pleasant person to be around, and more effective at dealing with your own and other people's crap by acknowledging it, but also acknowledging that the crap is not the sole narrative in play.
If you're dealing with actual depression, or something extreme, I suspect very different rules apply, and the above is pissing in the wind.
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Snags:
If one is not especially afflicted then actively choosing to bring to mind the positive without denying the negative can make a big shift in mood and outlook...
...acknowledging that the crap is not the sole narrative in play.
If you're dealing with actual depression, or something extreme, I suspect very different rules apply, and the above is pissing in the wind.
I don't know much about long term depression, but something like a funeral - telling jokes is out of place but natural humor arises and it's OK, relieves some of the pain for a moment.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
Albeit from a more or less religious perspective, I've experienced this one in most available shades, I think.
It's possible to do both positive and negative magical thinking: to start with the axiom that the totality of existence is either positive or negative, and to find affirmations of either position. This, it eventually occurs to me (usually) is brittle, because it doesn't encompass everything that is, and is therefore vulnerable and demanding of resources to defend it, aside from those it absorbs in the cause of building the true self.
I think the most productive form of spiritual discipline is based on generosity, wherever this is seen as coming from. That generosity can accommodate both whatever one is explicitly acknowledging at any given moment and its obverse, and allows one to sit sufficiently lightly to one's perspective to acknowledge that it will change in the course of life's experiences and this is simply the way life is, rather than being the threat it is made by magical thinking.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Very nice post, Thunderbunk. I started Zen meditation over 30 years ago, and came to greatly appreciate it, since it did not prescribe. Life appears as it appears, sometimes good, sometimes bad. But it continues (apparently).
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Snags:
...... actively choosing to bring to mind the positive without denying the negative ......
Yes, the essence, but presuming the volitional capacity to actively choose exists and that the culture exists to accept positive and negative states of mind. Clinical depression often presents as a severe limitation in this capacity, due to physical, emotional, rational, spiritual and volitional deficits. Each potentially having healthy interventions. It can also be learned behaviour. The discipline being to genuine experience and acknowledge one's state of mind.Accepting that your mind itself does not possess the power alone to fix its state. Non acceptance is what I call magical thinking. Majored on by prosperity gospel and word of faith movements.
I accept your interpretion Thunder.
[ 26. January 2015, 17:57: Message edited by: DOEPUBLIC ]
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
Belle Ringer,
Your choice of words is interesting. You complain about spiritual "disciplines" being hard and draining. That's like complaining that workouts make you sweat. Hello, the clue is in the name. Disciplines are challenging, and they are meant to be. "Discipline" doesn't sound like a fun word.
How about using words like "spiritual practices" instead, for starters? I think of spiritual disciplines as a subset of the larger category of spiritual practices, as workouts are a subset of the larger category of movement. If you want to move your body but you don't want to sweat, there are a lot of alternatives to working out. Same is true of spiritual health.
The Church has lots of historic spiritual practices through which people have experienced a sense of abundant, joyful life: singing praise to God, prayer, eating bread and drinking wine, meditation, contemplation of nature or art.
Unfortunately, some Christian traditions have seen fit to try to squeeze all the joy and juiciness out of life. Couple that with a setting that doesn't have a lot in the way of obvious natural beauty or artistic richness to enjoy, and you have the makings of one tough dry spirituality (or the novels of Miriam Toews).
One thing I would caution in the search for life-giving spiritual practices: make sure they focus on, or lead you toward, God. It sounds obvious, but there's a lot of creepy self-aggrandizing bullshit that passes for "positive" spiritual practice. Exhibit A: Joel Osteen declaring himself the Great "I Am" . Yecch. If you want to practice gratitude, declarations should lead one to appreciate the giver.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
....which kinds of gets us back where we started from. The key here is surely acknowledging the presence of gifts and allowing that their presence in our lives owes something to a force other than our own personal provision for ourselves. This feels to me like the only way of getting caught up with issues of ontology which seem to me little more than distractions. Hence my insistence on a foundation in generosity, which I will now add that I see as a limit as well as the foundation of the practice itself.
It seems to me essential to allow any further experience of the source of the generosity, should it arise, to play itself out unforced within the spirit precisely of generosity, in order to preserve the authenticity of that experience.
In short, I believe strongly that it is sufficient to give thanks, and to remain conscious of what one is giving thanks for, without being unduly concerned what or whom one is giving thanks to. The thanksgiving ensures a correct relationship between the gift and the recipient which, given that one is the recipient, is as much as one need be concerned about.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
....which kinds of gets us back where we started from. The key here is surely acknowledging the presence of gifts and allowing that their presence in our lives owes something to a force other than our own personal provision for ourselves. This feels to me like the only way of AVOIDING getting caught up with issues of ontology which seem to me little more than distractions. Hence my insistence on a foundation in generosity, which I will now add that I see as a limit as well as the foundation of the practice itself.
It seems to me essential to allow any further experience of the source of the generosity, should it arise, to play itself out unforced within the spirit precisely of generosity, in order to preserve the authenticity of that experience.
In short, I believe strongly that it is sufficient to give thanks, and to remain conscious of what one is giving thanks for, without being unduly concerned what or whom one is giving thanks to. The thanksgiving ensures a correct relationship between the gift and the recipient which, given that one is the recipient, is as much as one need be concerned about.
gah! Still can't proofread myself for toffee.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
One thing I would caution in the search for life-giving spiritual practices: make sure they focus on, or lead you toward, God.
Nope. Not on any account.
On this Board I find your comment slighty offensive, certainly insensitive.
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I've been collecting "spiritual disciplines" from the web. Sometimes just how it's presented makes a difference (why is fasting suggested? I've seen multiple reasons, some spiritually and physically healthy, some unhealthy).
Sometimes the concept of who God is, is at issue. I remember reading a book some years back in which a (fictional, I hope) girl instinctively expressed her joy in life by dancing, so she was assigned by her priest the spiritual discipline of chaining her feet to prevent dancing because we are suppose to give up to God anything we enjoy. Huh?
I've heard too much "God wants you to suffer" over the years - not suffer to benefit another or progress toward a better future, just suffer because "it's good for your soul."
One article pointed out God is happy, joyful, but we humans tend to focus on negativity and cynicism. They said joy is a spiritual discipline.
That would connect to things like gratitude journals, instead of just journaling about problems.
I've been to prayer sessions that are so negative you go home depressed, nothing but petitions about seemingly hopeless cases - Joe left his wife, Jane is in stage 4 cancer and has two weeks to live, Judy's house burned down and she didn't have insurance because she needed the money for her diabetes meds. God please help (but we know you won't). Amen.
Someone in a "life is only rosy" phase may benefit from a downer "discipline" but someone already depressed is made worse by it.
I'm interested in how to turn off the stressed fight or flight syndrome we tend to live immersed in, and instead turn on the parasympathetic healing system we were designed to spend most of our time in.
Joy is a spiritual discipline, interesting concept. Can it be misused? Sure, so can all the "suffer, it's good for you." At least when someone goes to a gym they know why and can see if their efforts are having effect!
[ 27. January 2015, 11:15: Message edited by: Belle Ringer ]
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
One thing I would caution in the search for life-giving spiritual practices: make sure they focus on, or lead you toward, God.
Nope. Not on any account.
On this Board I find your comment slighty offensive, certainly insensitive.
No offense intended. As a Christian, I naturally think in terms of God. Thunderbunk expressed it more clearly than I did: the point of gratitude as a spiritual practice is more about perspective in relationship than the definition of giver.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
One thing I would caution in the search for life-giving spiritual practices: make sure they focus on, or lead you toward, God.
Nope. Not on any account.
On this Board I find your comment slighty offensive, certainly insensitive.
No offense intended. As a Christian, I naturally think in terms of God. ... the point of gratitude as a spiritual practice is more about perspective in relationship than the definition of giver.
Of course you do. And if you feel that there needs to be a 'giver', ok. FWIW that's fine by me.
But what some ex-Christians, myself included, react to is when GOD is thrust at us with some assumption or expectation that GOD exists and that we have to acknowledge it, seek to follow it. That's one of the reasons that this Board was started, I think. If I wanted to talk about the existence of GOD I'd go to another Board like Purgatory.
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
Counting blessings is a label for 'positive thinking' in some quarters. Belle, The parasympathetic can be engaged through diaphramatic breathing. Helpful, especially when control of thinking is beyond your capacity.Demonstrating also that a physical response is often more resonant than a emotional or rational.Safe touch and talk. Also implying I think that the more breathing space we are priveleged to experience the more settled we may become.It is possible to find joy in sharing a person's suffering with them, to the extent that you are able.Actually sharing the passion. Maybe we tend to see compassion as just sharing the suffering ?
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DOEPUBLIC:
Belle, The parasympathetic can be engaged through diaphramatic breathing. Helpful, especially when control of thinking is beyond your capacity.
Interesting!
That could be a physical reason singing (the act of, not just listening to) can gradually help a person let go of deepest darkness, and raise the level of emotional being even if just for a short time.
Are woodwind and brass instruments diaphragm breathing?
Also active sports, of course.
As well as the commonly recommended "take a deep breath" exercises.
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Joy is a spiritual discipline, interesting concept. Can it be misused? Sure, so can all the "suffer, it's good for you."...
Most disciplines can be misused, especially if the focus is on making sure others know you are doing it rather than what changes within yourself.
But I think that Joy can be a very effective spiritual discipline, as well as a tool for discernment. It isn't as easy or simplistic as it might seem sometimes, however. It's difficult to describe - seeing the good in everyday things; enjoying moments of beauty or humor in the middle of a busy day; smiling; acknowledging people who are often taken for granted (my favorite is to address by name any shop clerk who is wearing a company name tag). The discipline part can be to be joyful at random times during the day - you can either keep a journal, or set your phone to beep at random times and find something joyful in whatever you are doing when it does. The discernment is that, if a particular activity doesn't feel joyous to you, then consider whether it can be restructured so it does, or if it is really worthwhile for you to do it. Some tasks can be particularly challenging in this regard...
I find it transformative, even if I don't explain it very well.
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by DOEPUBLIC:
Belle, The parasympathetic can be engaged through diaphramatic breathing. Helpful, especially when control of thinking is beyond your capacity.
Interesting!
That could be a physical reason singing (the act of, not just listening to) can gradually help a person let go of deepest darkness, and raise the level of emotional being even if just for a short time.
Are woodwind and brass instruments diaphragm breathing?
Also active sports, of course.
As well as the commonly recommended "take a deep breath" exercises.
Can't help on the instrument front.
Posts: 2350 | Registered: Oct 2007
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Aravis--
Re circle dances: are you referring to the Sufi Dances of Universal Peace?
I've occasionally participated at spiritual workshops and such. Always the same one: people form concentric circles; place one hand on their own heart, join the other hand with the person across from them; slowly walk around each other; and look deeply into each other's eyes the whole time. Then the circles move in opposite directions, and there are new partners.
It was a good experience. But if you're someone who can read emotions in eyes and faces, it's incredibly intimate. I couldn't handle more than a few partners, and had to step out.
FWIW, YMMV.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Bax
Shipmate
# 16572
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Posted
Speaking personally (as a Christian) I have found the insight that temperament/personality type is a helpful way of sorting out what approach to spirituality is most likely to be fruitful for any individual.
The book "Prayer and Temperament" by C Michael was very helpful in exploring this.
Some forms of spiritual discipline will come naturally, others will be a great deal of hard work. For example, if you are from what this book characterises as the "Franciscan" temperament, then any form of set prayer will always feel constraining, whereas taking a walk in the mountains will come naturally as a spiritual discipline.
Being nourished by what comes naturally then can lead to trying other forms of discipline that are more work, but which may in fact bear the most fruit.
Posts: 108 | Registered: Aug 2011
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Aravis--
Re circle dances: are you referring to the Sufi Dances of Universal Peace?
I've occasionally participated at spiritual workshops and such. Always the same one: people form concentric circles; place one hand on their own heart, join the other hand with the person across from them; slowly walk around each other; and look deeply into each other's eyes the whole time. Then the circles move in opposite directions, and there are new partners.
It was a good experience. But if you're someone who can read emotions in eyes and faces, it's incredibly intimate. I couldn't handle more than a few partners, and had to step out.
FWIW, YMMV.
The very idea of that makes me want to run screaming, TBH.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
No, I haven't come across the Sufi dances. They don't sound like the ones we do. Ours all start with every participant holding hands in a circle, so you don't need to have a specific number of people (though it doesn't work too well with less than six or seven). You don't usually have to gaze meaningfully into other people's eyes - I am usually looking at my feet till I get the hang of the steps!
Poppy, also on the Ship, is far more of an expert than I am.
Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Mindfulness was mentioned above. This is common thing to see mentioned. I think we've always done it, just done it differently. I suspect many spiritual pursuits are precisely pursued because they provide an altered psychological sense of being present, in the moment. It is also why, I think, in part I like communion services. Not the receiving of the elements, but the actual acts of liturgy.
Certain things make me entirely mindful and are not specifically spiritual at all. Like the sting of taking mitts off, touching bare metal while opening a bicycle lock at -35°C. But it does lead me to suggest that something physical is required to get into something mindful.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Belle Ringer: Are woodwind and brass instruments diaphragm breathing?
I don't know much about woodwind, but for brass the answer is definitely yes.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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