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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: One way trip to Mars
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
100 people have been selected to go to Mars in 2024. It's a one way trip, meaning that the group will stay ther, and presumably die there. One of the selected us a 23 year old woman from Fort William. That means she will leave Earth at the age of 32, never to return. Is this April 1? What do people think of this? Will it happen? I predict a lot of participants backing out before 2024.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Personally I think they should have invited nominations rather than applications.
I can think of a few candidates.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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itsarumdo
Shipmate
# 18174
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Posted
If the trip to Mars gets cancelled, do you think they will all go to Cromer?
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"Iti sapis potanda tinone" Lycophron
Posts: 994 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Jul 2014
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Felafool
Shipmate
# 270
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Posted
AIUI only 24 of the 100 shortlisted will be selected for the trip, and only 4 will go at first. Quite a challenge to think that these all have to be experts in developing self sustaining life. Might it have been an idea to practice on the moon first where return tickets are a possibility?
It's certainly an adventure, and requires a mindset that most of us probably do not have. It's the nearest thing to early explorers setting off to find the edge of the flat earth. I wonder if they'll get to Mars and discover it IS Cromer? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty - I ordered a cheeseburger.
Posts: 265 | Registered: May 2001
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
It could certainly end up not happening - it's being backed in part by TV company Endemol, who will run reality TV style programs during the various phases as the shortlist is whittled down, and get money that way.
The technical obstacles are obviously pretty formidable, so it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't actually blast off in the next ten years.
(Endemol once screened a show in the Netherlands in which a terminally ill member of the public had agreed to donate an organ to the "winner" of a reality show as selected by the public. That turned out to be a fake show, in order to try and improve organ donor registration. So they certainly have an eye for a good show)
Will it happen one day - yes, I think it probably will, and there will always be candidates willing to do it.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
This article gives a good overview and notes that the link beteen the technically not-for-profit foundation and a for-profit entertainment company. From the article:
quote:
To many, Mars One is nothing but a hoax, an elaborate marketing scheme to scam investors and starry-eyed adventurers out of a huge chunk of cash
ETA more of the technical objections here.
[ 18. February 2015, 11:46: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
A lot of the interviews I've heard have been framed in terms of "going there to die". While this - as it's a one way trip - inevitable, it's not the primary narrative, which is "going there to live".
The hardware is the limiting factor, not finding sufficiently skilled and motivated people to take the challenge. If I didn't have responsibilities here, I would have seriously considered it.
Bluntly put, someone has to be first.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Ceannaideach
Shipmate
# 12007
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Posted
Hmmn, it's never a good thing when reality TV companies start to get involved in things like this IMHO.
Mind you Mars, (along with the Moon) is on a list of places I would to visit if I had the money/time/technology to do so. But I'm not so sure that I would like the idea of never returning to Earth. I'm rather fond of the old place.
On a related topic I have started reading Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson - worth a read if you're interested in this sort of thing.
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"I dream of the day when I will learn to stop asking questions for which I will regret learning the answers." - Roy Greenhilt OOTS
Posts: 199 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Nov 2006
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
That article is extraordinary* - or more specifically, the suggestion it will only cost $6 billion. Here in the UK we are about to spend more than £40 billion on a few miles of railway. Who'd have thought you could get all the way to another planet for a tenth of that....
*out of this world maybe - sorry, I'll get my coat
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceannaideach:
On a related topic I have started reading Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson - worth a read if you're interested in this sort of thing.
Andy Weir's The Martian is more applicable. (I've just started reading it)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Ah, but it is much more expensive if you work it out in terms of dollars per individual journey ...
And, judging from other posts, the Mars ticket doesn't seem to have a return half.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
As it's based in the Netherlands, would it not fall under the Diocese in Europe? Perhaps, given the challenges of maintaining the apostolic succession at such a distance, it would be best to have two of the candidates consecrated to the episcopacy. Or less sublimely-minded shipmates may wish to nominate two bishops to send to Mars.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Ah, but it is much more expensive if you work it out in terms of dollars per individual journey ...
And, judging from other posts, the Mars ticket doesn't seem to have a return half.
It gets much more competitive when you consider cost per mile though, on account of it being a very long way to Mars ;-)
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
That is, indeed, true.
Do you think the seats will be reserved, or will the "lucky" applicants have to stand in the guard's van? Depends on the time of lift-off, I suppose ... ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The hardware is the limiting factor, not finding sufficiently skilled and motivated people to take the challenge. If I didn't have responsibilities here, I would have seriously considered it.
I think a lot of people are in this boat. And even if you did have responsibilities, you might be more up for it if there was a chance of returning.
Personally I think they're aiming too young if they're recruiting 24 year olds. The ideal candidates, at least for the initial trip, should be widowers (or at least divorced and having no intention of getting re-hitched) and the parent of grown-up children (but not yet a grandparent). So: someone who has done their bit for humanity, isn't going to get broody later in life (something the 20 year olds will never have considered in their youthful naivete), and - bluntly - won't live as long as said 20 year olds, so that if it all goes horribly wrong it will be over a lot sooner.
It has just struck me that Gilbert & Sullivan inadvertently tackled this very situation:
quote:
We observe too great a stress / On the risks which on us press / And of reference a lack / To our chance of coming back! / Still, perhaps it would be wise/Not to carp or criticize / For it's very evident / These attentions are well meant.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I don't think they'll be able to pull it off technically within the next decade, but even if it is a hoax, they're doing an important job in opening up the discussion about sending people to Mars.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
That is, indeed, true.
Do you think the seats will be reserved, or will the "lucky" applicants have to stand in the guard's van? Depends on the time of lift-off, I suppose ...
I think one of the selection rounds in the reality TV part should consist of standing on Euston station during Friday rush hour, staring at the departure boards in anticipation of which platform you're going from.
Points should be awarded for successfully gambling which it is, but you should also select a couple who were more cautious and waited for the info, so the trip isn't populated just by gamblers. Ones who can leg it from the concourse to the platform first are obviously in good physical condition, which is also important for such an undertaking.
Sorted.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
Personally I think they're aiming too young if they're recruiting 24 year olds. The ideal candidates, at least for the initial trip, should be widowers (or at least divorced and having no intention of getting re-hitched) and the parent of grown-up children (but not yet a grandparent). So: someone who has done their bit for humanity, isn't going to get broody later in life (something the 20 year olds will never have considered in their youthful naivete), and - bluntly - won't live as long as said 20 year olds, so that if it all goes horribly wrong it will be over a lot sooner.
On the other hand, younger people are stronger, more resilient, less likely to need medical assistance (other than that required to keep life going in such a hostile environment!) and - bluntly - more likely to keep their wits about them long enough to give the mission half a chance of success.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
On the other hand, younger people are stronger, more resilient, less likely to need medical assistance (other than that required to keep life going in such a hostile environment!) and - bluntly - more likely to keep their wits about them long enough to give the mission half a chance of success.
I don't think that's necessarily a given. Obviously (or at least obviously) the candidates are going to be screened for mental fortitude and adaptability - but it'd be my contention that a wealth of experience would go to go a very long way in a novel situation.
Youth is wasted on the young.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
From one of the interviews, I thought that part of the rationale for young people was that they could colonise the planet by breeding.
I've seen Interstellar too recently, with the depiction of attempted settlement of planets, not to have those images running through my head when I hear this news.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
It could certainly end up not happening - it's being backed in part by TV company Endemol, who will run reality TV style programs during the various phases as the shortlist is whittled down, and get money that way. ...
That turns the 'could' at the beginning into 'will'.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
From one of the interviews, I thought that part of the rationale for young people was that they could colonise the planet by breeding.
Though, the young people selected who will be in their 30s in 2024 will be in their 40s or 50s by the time there is a launch. If there is a launch. Though not too old for children here on Earth, without access to medical facilities and in a much more hostile environment that would be less advisable on Mars, I'd have thought.
So, the breeders will be those in the second round 100 shortlisted in 10-15 years.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
From what I've read the intrepid voyagers will be strongly discouraged (or is it banned?) from having sex once they leave because their settlement will not be able to sustain future generations (and maybe they are afraid of favoritism for one's partner, jealousy, discord within couples, etc., even if they are very good at not conceiving children).
Note: consider my application withdrawn.
Is that going to work? I know it works with some success in monasteries and convents and I have written on the Ship in defense of it, but that is religious abstinence from sex - abstinence with an escape route, vows aside, if it does not work out. This abstinence is one they claim is necessary for survival and there is no where else they can go to live a normal life with sex. I would think it would be better to try to integrate some form of sexual expression into their lives for those who want it - so that the sex that probably is going to happen anyway over the decades is not secret and forbidden but can be discussed like other issues in their lives.
Posts: 1537 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I think the $6b is what Mars One claim it will cost to get the first 4 people to Mars. And, they will cut corners to do that - radiation shielding for the space craft for a start, probably training of the crew (eg: I strongly suspect that none of the crew will actually pilot the spacecraft or landers, it will all be handled by computer with ground control)
The NASA mission is a totally different programme. For a start, NASA plan a round trip - so they need landing craft that can return to Mars orbit. They need to design a spaceship that can get to Mars and back again. Both considerably more challenging than a one way trip. NASA will also take much more care to cover unexpected eventualities - so radiation shielding for worst case radiation from a solar flare, at least one crew member able to pilot the spaceship and landers in event of computer glitches, etc. NASA will also be going for scientific reasons, so there will be a payload of scientific equipment (designed, as far as possible, to guarantee to work with redundancy), and mission specialists to operate it. To guarantee a successful scientific mission to Mars NASA will almost certainly send more than 4 people, they sent 3 on each of the Apollo missions and that was just to the Moon. All that just adds to the costs, but increases the chances of value for money.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
All fair points but we're talking an order of magnitude difference. We're also talking an unproven non-profit versus a very established agency with some success in this field. There's a reason they're NOT taking some of those cost-cutting shortcuts.
But OK, let's say that one-way, fewer people mission size means they can do it for what they say they can - can they really raise that money? And can they raise it on the right timescale.
Chances are that on launch day and especially on land-on-Mars day, they can generate an audience that can raise huge amounts of sponsorship - but you need lots of money to get to launch day. The reality TV show gets more interesting, and therefore more profitable, the more money you've already spent. Seeing the rockets go up is likely a big payday - but are the months of astronauts-in-training footage enough to pay for building the rockets? or enough even to convince backers to invest in building the rockets?
I think there's a reason that projects like this have always been done by government agencies.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
It sounds as if it could be compelling TV. If things go wrong (as with Apollo 13) that'll only create more interest.
If the money can be raised privately I think that's probably a good thing, considering how strapped for cash so many governments are nowadays.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Ahleal V
Shipmate
# 8404
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Posted
Am I the only one that thought of Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson?
Which as it happens may be heading to TV soon?
x
AV
[ 18. February 2015, 19:09: Message edited by: Ahleal V ]
Posts: 499 | From: English Spires | Registered: Aug 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Ahleal V: Am I the only one that thought of Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson?
No, you're not.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
On the other hand, younger people are stronger, more resilient, less likely to need medical assistance (other than that required to keep life going in such a hostile environment!) and - bluntly - more likely to keep their wits about them long enough to give the mission half a chance of success.
I'm not sure that's true.
During WW2, the death rate for American POWs held by the Japanese was higher for men under the age of 22 than it was for those aged 22-35. The younger ones had more resilience, but the older ones had better judgment.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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welsh dragon
Shipmate
# 3249
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Posted
I was just thinking that the best chance for success might indeed to have a splinter group of a religious community go, with a shared ethic for a simple way of life, a spiritual ethos, a spiritual code to sustain them, perhaps an acceptance already of celibacy or a decision not to have children.
That could make a great short story.
Posts: 5352 | From: ebay | Registered: Aug 2002
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Interestingly, when I watched 'Star Trek' as a girl I did wonder if the crew members were able to practise their respective religions on the space craft.
At least some of the candidates on this trip to Mars will be religious. But the RCs will have to do without priests, and the Muslims will have to work out how to pray in the direction of Mecca....
Mainstream films/TV shows tend not to deal with this sort of issue, but I don't know if a reality TV show in 10 years' time would be more open-minded. Perhaps the selection process will aim to eliminate anyone who appears to be 'too' religious if that means they won't 'fit in' too well with the others. Who knows?
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
To put this in perspective some--when people started settling in the "New World" most knew they would never see their families again. Same with Australia.
Likewise, many airmen flying out of England over Europe on bombing runs in WWII knew they would likely never return but they went anyway.
I have a friend who dearly wanted to be on the first Mars mission. He is a astro biologist so he wants to see what is really there. His family is grown. He knows, if allowed to go, he will not see his wife or the kids or their children. Nevertheless he wants to go in the interest of science and the expansion of knowledge. I have yet to hear if he has made the shorter list.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
SvitlanaV2: Interestingly, when I watched 'Star Trek' as a girl I did wonder if the crew members were able to practise their respective religions on the space craft.
Star Trek has been a bit ambiguous on religion at times. Picard had a famous anti-religion speech in the Season 3 episode Who Watches the Watchers (I've seen New Atheist cheering this speech on the internet). However, Worf was allowed to practice his religion on board the Enterprise, with encouragement and sometimes with active help from the other senior crew members. Deep Space 9 had a much more pronounced respect for religion, especially giving much air time to Bajoran beliefs.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
# 12744
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Posted
Very excited about a TV adaptation of Red Mars.
Babylon 5 was a series that addressed religion more directly than many others. Human religious tolerance and diversity, the Centauri pantheon, Susan Ivanova's encouragement to do the Jewish mourning rituals for her father, the episode Passing Through Gethsemane, Franklin's universalist faith, the intersection of medical treatment and religious belief.
I'd love to go into space.
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I've started blogging. I don't promise you'll find anything to interest you at uncleconrad
Posts: 946 | From: Mount Fairy, NSW | Registered: Jun 2007
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Star Trek has been a bit ambiguous on religion at times. Picard had a famous anti-religion speech in the Season 3 episode Who Watches the Watchers (I've seen New Atheist cheering this speech on the internet). However, Worf was allowed to practice his religion on board the Enterprise, with encouragement and sometimes with active help from the other senior crew members. Deep Space 9 had a much more pronounced respect for religion, especially giving much air time to Bajoran beliefs.
I don't think Trek ever respected religion. "We respect your beliefs" was the closest they could come to it, but even then there was always the unsaid "... even though we know they're just superstitious nonsense and we're free of that stuff." Or, put another way, deeply, deeply patronising.
But to return to the subject: I love the idea of a religious community founding the first Martian colony. The Jesuits already have a thriving bunch of astronomers who must surely tick all the boxes discussed so far so I'm sure they would be happy to volunteer. (It's been done before in fiction, but due to the absence of artisitically gifted predatory sex-enslaving aliens this one would probably end more happily.)
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
How do you know there aren't artistically gifted predatory sex-enslaving aliens on Mars? Imagine the ratings for the first live broadcast (well, as live as you can get given the time it takes for radio signals to get from Mars to Earth) of the four finalists meeting the Martians for an orgy.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Star Trek has been a bit ambiguous on religion at times. Picard had a famous anti-religion speech in the Season 3 episode Who Watches the Watchers (I've seen New Atheist cheering this speech on the internet). However, Worf was allowed to practice his religion on board the Enterprise, with encouragement and sometimes with active help from the other senior crew members. Deep Space 9 had a much more pronounced respect for religion, especially giving much air time to Bajoran beliefs.
I don't think Trek ever respected religion. "We respect your beliefs" was the closest they could come to it, but even then there was always the unsaid "... even though we know they're just superstitious nonsense and we're free of that stuff." Or, put another way, deeply, deeply patronising.
But to return to the subject: I love the idea of a religious community founding the first Martian colony. The Jesuits already have a thriving bunch of astronomers who must surely tick all the boxes discussed so far so I'm sure they would be happy to volunteer. (It's been done before in fiction, but due to the absence of artisitically gifted predatory sex-enslaving aliens this one would probably end more happily.)
Wouldn't be too sure. ToS, Bread and Circuses:
quote:
KIRK: Gentlemen.
MCCOY: Captain, I see on your report Flavius was killed. I am sorry. I liked that huge sun worshiper.
SPOCK: I wish we could have examined that belief of his more closely. It seems illogical for a sun worshiper to develop a philosophy of total brotherhood. Sun worship is usually a primitive superstition religion.
UHURA: I'm afraid you have it all wrong, Mister Spock, all of you. I've been monitoring some of their old-style radio waves, the empire spokesman trying to ridicule their religion. But he couldn't. Don't you understand? It's not the sun up in the sky. It's the Son of God.
KIRK: Caesar and Christ. They had them both. And the word is spreading only now.
MCCOY: A philosophy of total love and total brotherhood.
SPOCK: It will replace their imperial Rome, but it will happen in their twentieth century.
KIRK: Wouldn't it be something to watch, to be a part of? To see it happen all over again? Mister Chekov, take us out of orbit. Ahead warp factor one.
CHEKOV: Aye, sir.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
Without wishing to get into the whole question of obscene wealth, it does strike me that if they reckon they can do it for $6billion, there are quite a few people who could afford that outright themselves.
They might well not want to go themselves, but if I had that much money and was convinced they could pull it off I'd give it to them.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
According to the second document I linked to above, the cost is so low because they have not factored in the cost of additional launches to supply replacement parts - which is the chief reason for the 60 or so days' survival time advanced by MIT.
(The report also looks at the logistical difficulties involved in the supply of replacement parts, given the time taken to reach Mars and the available launch windows compared to, say, the ISS).
Participants may be naively assuming that "dying on Mars" is, other things being equal, a noble aim that in the best-case scenario could be several years off, but from my earthbound computer chair I tend to believe the folks at MIT are well-placed to conduct systems analysis and risk assessment, and that participants are not being given a fully informed appraisal of their likely life expectancy.
If so, I think that would be unethical and bordering on the criminal.
I'm old enough - just - to remember the first Moon landing and to have inherited my generation's romantic fascination with getting off the planet, but I don't think this programme is going to make that in the least bit likely.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Why don't they try living on the moon first?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
As it's based in the Netherlands, would it not fall under the Diocese in Europe? Perhaps, given the challenges of maintaining the apostolic succession at such a distance, it would be best to have two of the candidates consecrated to the episcopacy. Or less sublimely-minded shipmates may wish to nominate two bishops to send to Mars.
Apostolic succession is guaranteed by the laying-on of the bishop's hands. There's nothing in the rubrics to say that the bishop still has to be attached to them.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I can't think of anything more boring than being exiled to Mars - or the Moon. Nothing to look out on but rubble and craters in every direction. Would the atmosphere on Mars hold enough oxygen for you to be able to go for a walk? A dark almost black sky on what is essentially a dead planet, and further from the sun so it would be colder. And the Moon is grey and creepy.
Absolutely everything would have to be imported and made to last as long as possible. You'd probably have to spend your life trying to make it all work and turning your hand to a little of everything. It wouldn't be like going to a planet that already had vegetation, water and resources. It would be a real struggle to make anything grow, unless it was done in earth-like conditions under coverings and an artificial dome with an artificially generated atmosphere, and pray the generators didn't break down.
And it would be very emotionally claustrophobic too.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Would the atmosphere on Mars hold enough oxygen for you to be able to go for a walk?
No. The 60-or-so day life expectancy figure is based on that being about when the nitrogen used to replace oxygen leaking out of the colonists' base runs out.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
As it's based in the Netherlands, would it not fall under the Diocese in Europe? Perhaps, given the challenges of maintaining the apostolic succession at such a distance, it would be best to have two of the candidates consecrated to the episcopacy. Or less sublimely-minded shipmates may wish to nominate two bishops to send to Mars.
Apostolic succession is guaranteed by the laying-on of the bishop's hands. There's nothing in the rubrics to say that the bishop still has to be attached to them.
Indeed-- the second bishop would be there for insurance, in case the first one was taken out by suit failure or bug-eyed monsters before being able to consecrate their successor. An unsympathetic canonist of my acquaintance suggested that one could be metropolitan on the odd-numbered days and other on even-numbered days. I thought one could be Primate of All Mars, and the other could be Primate of Mars.
Religion doesn't have a big place in much science fiction. Babylon 5 had a messianic phenomenon, which in the context of the plot, was entirely logical. A US acquaintance sent me a draft of a fanfic of Babylon 5, with a major plot variation including a Russian monastery having its own craft, sending riassophore monks out to be chaplains of each craft. He complained to me that publishers were not interested-- I told him to get a translation into Russian and he would have better luck.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I suppose one reason the price might be lower than expected is that nobody will be able to get back to sue the people who sold them the idea of going there. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
... they could colonise the planet by breeding ...
Is anyone else being reminded of Moonraker, or is it just me? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Augustine the Aleut: Religion doesn't have a big place in much science fiction.
I disagree. There is a lot of religion in much of SF. Dune, Star Wars ... religion is a major theme there.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Apostolic succession is guaranteed by the laying-on of the bishop's hands. There's nothing in the rubrics to say that the bishop still has to be attached to them.
Bishop Thing?
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
Religion doesn't have a big place in much science fiction.
I was on a panel at the last WorldCon, talking about why (with my fellow panellists) we put religion into our SF.
I would agree it doesn't have a big place, but it certainly has a place, which follows on from a long and illustrious tradition of religious-themed SF. (I'm going to add A Canticle for Leibowitz into the mix.)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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