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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Teufelchen
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Fuck off you cunt. You don't get to make such accusations. Oh yeah, and I fucked your mum.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
![[Confused]](confused.gif) A link for context?
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Fuck off you cunt. You don't get to make such accusations. Oh yeah, and I fucked your mum.
So much for holding dear the historic values of Christianity ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ 26. February 2015, 15:20: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Well, for what it's worth, AO: Based entirely on your views expounded on the Ship, I have come to believe you're a crypto-fascist. That's right: a fascist who isn't brave enough to come out and say "I'm a fascist."
So well done with that. If in fact, you're not a fascist, you might want to tone it down a little.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
IIRC, in Eric Mascall's memoirs there is a story of aa visit to an Orthodox monastery in Poland (I think) before the war, where Mascall was surprised to hear one aged monk suddenly come out with an urgent and heartfelt call for all Christians, Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, to submerge their differences and unite....
(then came the punchline:)
....in order to duff up the Jews.
Ho hum.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Well, for what it's worth, AO: Based entirely on your views expounded on the Ship, I have come to believe you're a crypto-fascist. That's right: a fascist who isn't brave enough to come out and say "I'm a fascist."
So well done with that. If in fact, you're not a fascist, you might want to tone it down a little.
Demonstrate it then.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
You have. I'm rather hoping that your future conduct will demonstrate otherwise, but I won't hold my breath.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
You have. I'm rather hoping that your future conduct will demonstrate otherwise, but I won't hold my breath.
Not good enough. If I am what you accuse me of then it should be easy enough to demonstrate that on this thread. Come on. I'm challenging you. If not. Shut your gob.
[ 26. February 2015, 16:01: Message edited by: Ad Orientem ]
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Meh. I'm not doing your homework for you. To everyone else, feel free to click the 'posts' bit under any of AO's emissions to reveal his last 50 contributions.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
What is the Old Church Slavonic for 'Come and 'ave a go if you think you're 'ard enough', by the way?
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Meh. I'm not doing your homework for you. To everyone else, feel free to click the 'posts' bit under any of AO's emissions to reveal his last 50 contributions.
I'm not the one making the accusation. So, if you want to continue making it, you're the one who is going to have to demonstrate that what you say is true. Otherwise, shut your big fat gob.
However, I fail to see how saying that a prayer, firmly founded in the scriptures, calling for the conversion of the Jews is good and orthodox and that it should continue to be prayed is antisemitic, unless of course someone has gone and changed the definition of the word.
[ 26. February 2015, 16:22: Message edited by: Ad Orientem ]
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
IIRC, in Eric Mascall's memoirs there is a story of aa visit to an Orthodox monastery in Poland (I think) before the war, where Mascall was surprised to hear one aged monk suddenly come out with an urgent and heartfelt call for all Christians, Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, to submerge their differences and unite....
(then came the punchline:)
....in order to duff up the Jews.
Ho hum.
When I started reading that I was thinking of Bernard Manning's take on it, in which Jews should be uniting with everyone else to have a go at Pakistanis. Although that was fine on prime time television with Michael Parkinson.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
This is Hell, Doc Tor doesn't have to do anything.
AO,I read your posting in the same way he does.
Using Jesus to ignore Jesus is probably the biggest sin a Christian can commit.
[ 26. February 2015, 16:29: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
Back when my father was alive one of the things he used to tell me all the time was:
quote:
Learn to quit while you are behind son.
I wish I had listened and absorbed the lesson at a deeper level.
Something about this thread brings that to mind. I suppose that could be said of many Hell calls.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Prayers for the conversion of the Jews are at best tasteless and in the modern context, IMHO, anti-semitic.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Caissa: Prayers for the conversion of the Jews are at best tasteless and in the modern context, IMHO, anti-semitic.
I agree. In the past, these prayers have been accompanied by violence against the Jews on various occasions. That makes them at least anti-semitic by association. Moreover, Jews have a religious identity, even though they aren't all religious. Ignoring that or worse, wishing to take that away from them, is anti-semitic too.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
This is Hell, Doc Tor doesn't have to do anything.
I suppose no one HAS to do anything, but if he isn't going to back up his accusations then he's just a dick and no one should take him seriously.
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
AO,I read your posting in the same way he does.
Using Jesus to ignore Jesus is probably the biggest sin a Christian can commit.
Again, show me how I have done that.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Prayers for the conversion of the Jews are at best tasteless and in the modern context, IMHO, anti-semitic.
How? How is praying for the conversion of the Jews anti-semitic? Or are people confusing ethnicity with religion?
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
I'm not the one making the accusation. So, if you want to continue making it, you're the one who is going to have to demonstrate that what you say is true. Otherwise, shut your big fat gob.
Oh, it's not an accusation.
Merely an observation, which, along with many other shipmates, appears self-evident.
[ 26. February 2015, 16:39: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Well there's praying for the Jews and there's praying for the Jews, isn't there. For example, if we compare the pre-1955 Roman rite:
quote:
Let us pray also for the faithless Jews: that Almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. ('Amen' is not responded, nor is said 'Let us pray', or 'Let us kneel', or 'Arise', but immediately is said:) Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen
The 1662 BCP:
quote:
O merciful God, who hast made all men, and hatest nothing that thou hast made, nor wouldest the death of any sinner, but rather that he be converted and live; Have mercy upon all Jews, Turks, Infidels, and Heretics, and take from them all ignorance, hardness of heart, and contempt of thy Word; and so fetch them home, blessed Lord, to thy flock, that they may be saved among the remnant of the true Israelites, and be made one fold under one shepherd, Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit, one God, world without end. Amen
and the current RC Ordinary Form:
quote:
Let us pray also for the Jewish people, to whom the Lord our God spoke first, that he may grant them to advance in love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant. (Prayer in silence. Then the Priest says:) Almighty ever-living God, who bestowed your promises on Abraham and his descendants, hear graciously the prayers of your Church, that the people you first made your own may attain the fullness of redemption. Through Christ our Lord. Amen
there's bit of a difference of tone there, isn't there? I can see that the pre-1955 version could be quite easily piss people off; the 1662 BCP collect is of its time but does not make a disticntion between Jews and others who are not (small o) orthodox Christians, and does say soemthign favourable about 'true Israelites', and I can't see how the current Ordinary form could be offensive to anyone who was not already determined to take offence.
( I can't find the Orthodox equivalents online.)
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
I'm not the one making the accusation. So, if you want to continue making it, you're the one who is going to have to demonstrate that what you say is true. Otherwise, shut your big fat gob.
However, I fail to see how saying that a prayer, firmly founded in the scriptures, calling for the conversion of the Jews is good and orthodox and that it should continue to be prayed is antisemitic, unless of course someone has gone and changed the definition of the word.
Well there's this, where you suggest that a Christianity which affirms the continuing validity of the Old Covenant "deserves to die".
I don't think it is necessarily anti-Semitic for a Christian to deny the claims of the Jewish religion, or to maintain that Jews would be better off, and their prospects of salvation increased, if they converted. But when you express clear and unmistakable hatred and contempt for forms of Christianity that see more value in Judaism than you do, when you start suggesting that affirmation of Jewish hopes of salvation is a betrayal of the faith the saints, then yes, that does start to look a little bit anti-Semitic.
I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that what you really hate and hold in contempt is non-Orthodox Christianity - because you've been demonstrating that since you joined and the Jew thing is relatively new. I think it's possible that you're just using our wishy-washy ecumenicalism towards the people who gave us Jesus as another reason for your continuing personal schism. It's possible you aren't really an anti-Semite, but just sound like one.
But you don't get to say that a religion that endorses Judaism deserves to die, and then act all outraged when someone takes that as anti-Semitic. That just makes you look silly.
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Meh. I'm not doing your homework for you. To everyone else, feel free to click the 'posts' bit under any of AO's emissions to reveal his last 50 contributions.
I'm not the one making the accusation. So, if you want to continue making it, you're the one who is going to have to demonstrate that what you say is true. Otherwise, shut your big fat gob.
Hang on a sec. You started a thread calling someone a cunt with no context whatsoever, yet you're asking others to back up accusations against yourself? That courtesy works two ways you know.
[ 26. February 2015, 16:50: Message edited by: Spike ]
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Oh yeah, and I fucked your mum.
This is pure evil and vile. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
I'm not the one making the accusation. So, if you want to continue making it, you're the one who is going to have to demonstrate that what you say is true. Otherwise, shut your big fat gob.
However, I fail to see how saying that a prayer, firmly founded in the scriptures, calling for the conversion of the Jews is good and orthodox and that it should continue to be prayed is antisemitic, unless of course someone has gone and changed the definition of the word.
Well there's this, where you suggest that a Christianity which affirms the continuing validity of the Old Covenant "deserves to die".
I don't think it is necessarily anti-Semitic for a Christian to deny the claims of the Jewish religion, or to maintain that Jews would be better off, and their prospects of salvation increased, if they converted. But when you express clear and unmistakable hatred and contempt for forms of Christianity that see more value in Judaism than you do, when you start suggesting that affirmation of Jewish hopes of salvation is a betrayal of the faith the saints, then yes, that does start to look a little bit anti-Semitic.
I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that what you really hate and hold in contempt is non-Orthodox Christianity - because you've been demonstrating that since you joined and the Jew thing is relatively new. I think it's possible that you're just using our wishy-washy ecumenicalism towards the people who gave us Jesus as another reason for your continuing personal schism. It's possible you aren't really an anti-Semite, but just sound like one.
But you don't get to say that a religion that endorses Judaism deserves to die, and then act all outraged when someone takes that as anti-Semitic. That just makes you look silly.
Well, someone has redefined anti-semitism then. And yes, any Christianity that does not affirm "repent and be baptised" deserves to die.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Prayers for the conversion of the Jews are at best tasteless and in the modern context, IMHO, anti-semitic.
How? How is praying for the conversion of the Jews anti-semitic? Or are people confusing ethnicity with religion?
It is entirely true that most of us who are Christians would consider that in some way it's better to be Christian than not (after all, if we believe it is better to be something else, why aren't we?). It therefore follows that praying that those who aren't Christians may be converted is to pray that they attain the better position that we also enjoy. Fair enough.
Why, then, single out one particular group to pray for?
If we were to pray that the "black people of the African continent would learn the civilised ways of the white people of Europe", then we would rightly be called racist.
If we were to pray that the "homosexual perverts would be healed and settle down into nice, heterosexual marriages", then we would rightly be called homophobic.
If we were to pray that the "faithless Jews would acknowledge Jesus Christ", then we would rightly be called anti-semitic.
Simples.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Oh yeah! And as I said earlier, I hope you guys have thrown out the Gospel according to St. John out of your Bibles, because it's within that context (after the reading of the passion from that Gospel) that the prayers are said.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
It is entirely true that most of us who are Christians would consider that in some way it's better to be Christian than not (after all, if we believe it is better to be something else, why aren't we?). It therefore follows that praying that those who aren't Christians may be converted is to pray that they attain the better position that we also enjoy. Fair enough.
Why, then, single out one particular group to pray for?
Which I suppose is where, allowing for the datedness of the language,
quote:
all Jews, Turks, Infidels, and Heretics
has the edge.
Mind you, there's nothing wrong with praying for a particular group on a particular day in itself: no-one says that you shouldn't pray for seafarers on Sea Sunday because you're not praying for busdrivers and railwaymen as well.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Oh yeah! And as I said earlier, I hope you guys have thrown out the Gospel according to St. John out of your Bibles, because it's within that context (after the reading of the passion from that Gospel) that the prayers are said.
Nah, we just have to read it without looking through the spectacles of anti-semitism.
You know, don't assume that when John uses the word "Jews" he's talking about an entire race of people for all time. Rather than the much more reasonable "those Jews who happened to be there supporting the decision to crucify Jesus".
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Prayers for the conversion of the Jews are at best tasteless and in the modern context, IMHO, anti-semitic.
How? How is praying for the conversion of the Jews anti-semitic? Or are people confusing ethnicity with religion?
It is entirely true that most of us who are Christians would consider that in some way it's better to be Christian than not (after all, if we believe it is better to be something else, why aren't we?). It therefore follows that praying that those who aren't Christians may be converted is to pray that they attain the better position that we also enjoy. Fair enough.
Why, then, single out one particular group to pray for?
If we were to pray that the "black people of the African continent would learn the civilised ways of the white people of Europe", then we would rightly be called racist.
If we were to pray that the "homosexual perverts would be healed and settle down into nice, heterosexual marriages", then we would rightly be called homophobic.
If we were to pray that the "faithless Jews would acknowledge Jesus Christ", then we would rightly be called anti-semitic.
Simples.
The is also a prayer for the conversion of pagans and also prayer for heretics and schismatics. So no, they are not singled out. So why are they prayed for? Precisely because of the patriarchs and the prophets etc. Because they received the prophecies which spoke of Christ, Christ himself preached to them, and therefore they have no excuse.
[ 26. February 2015, 17:16: Message edited by: Ad Orientem ]
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Mind you, there's nothing wrong with praying for a particular group on a particular day in itself: no-one says that you shouldn't pray for seafarers on Sea Sunday because you're not praying for busdrivers and railwaymen as well.
Although it would be a bit odd to pray for seafarers on Sea Sunday, but never pray for any other group on any other day of the year.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
AO,
First, what Spike said.
Second, I really don't fancy trudging through your execrable output, assembling the context and placing an argument for which your reply will be "I'm right! 'Cause the bible"!
Third, have you noticed any defenders yet? Might be a reason for that. And, no, Evensong won't count.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Christ himself preached to them, and therefore have no excuse.
Interesting. Where are these Jews Christ Himself preached to? I've never met any. In fact, I've never met anyone that Christ Himself preached to.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Fair enough. But I'd have thought that given the big narrative of Good Friday is in part about Christ's rejection by God's ancient people, or rather as you point outby those of them who were there at the time and by their religious leaders, it is an appropriate day to pray that the Jews may see God in what we understand to be his fuller revelation in Christ.
But this is insufficiently Hellish, I fear.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
AO,
First, what Spike said.
Second, I really don't fancy trudging through your execrable output, assembling the context and placing an argument for which your reply will be "I'm right! 'Cause the bible"!
Third, have you noticed any defenders yet? Might be a reason for that. And, no, Evensong won't count.
Why would I give a fuck if anyone defends me or not? I'm a grown man. I can defend myself.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that what you really hate and hold in contempt is non-Orthodox Christianity - because you've been demonstrating that since you joined and the Jew thing is relatively new.
He joined in Feb 2013. By June he was saying this
quote:
I don't believe Judaism is equal with Christianity (being, as far as the ancient faith of the Church is concerned, an apostate sect, having rejected and put to death its Messiah and God).
So, I wouldn't cut him too much slack.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Aliright, if you are so stupid as to miss the point, I shall endeavor to put it simply.
It isn't that you need a defender, it is that there is no defence.
Or, to fit your current level of debate: If everyone thinks you are an arse, you likely are.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
AO,
First, what Spike said.
Second, I really don't fancy trudging through your execrable output, assembling the context and placing an argument for which your reply will be "I'm right! 'Cause the bible"!
Third, have you noticed any defenders yet? Might be a reason for that. And, no, Evensong won't count.
Why would I give a fuck if anyone defends me or not? I'm a grown man. I can defend myself.
You're not a prophet. You're a pillock.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
To be fair, Doc Tor, ISTM he also believes you to belong to an apostate sect. The farther you get from his sub-sect of orthodoxy, the more doomed you are.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Oh yes. AFAAOC the only proper Christians are him, the Patriarch of Moscow, and the Ecumenical Patriarch- and he's not too sure about those last two.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Because they received the prophecies which spoke of Christ, Christ himself preached to them, and therefore they have no excuse.
quote:
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Romans 2:1 ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
Did you throw that bit out of your Bible?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Because they received the prophecies which spoke of Christ, Christ himself preached to them, and therefore they have no excuse.
quote:
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Romans 2:1
Did you throw that bit out of your Bible?
Oooooooo, what fun! Let's throw Biblical curses!
Woe unto thee, Ad Orientem, thou breaker of the commandments, for you will be cast onto a steaming dung-heap!
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Well when he said the Jews in particular had no excuse, that verse sprang immediately to mind because it says we are all without excuse. But do carry on.
[ 26. February 2015, 17:51: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh yes. AFAAOC the only proper Christians are him, the Patriarch of Moscow, and the Ecumenical Patriarch- and he's not too sure about those last two.
I don't hold myself to be the arbiter of the faith. I do, however, believe that the Orthodox Church is THE Church. Of course I do, otherwise I would never have bothered converting.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
In any case, it's a strange way of thinking about evangelisation. You have to join unless you have an excuse?
Or does "the Jews don't have an excuse" mean that God will punish them more? Nope, nothing anti-semitic about that at all
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that what you really hate and hold in contempt is non-Orthodox Christianity - because you've been demonstrating that since you joined and the Jew thing is relatively new.
He joined in Feb 2013. By June he was saying this
quote:
I don't believe Judaism is equal with Christianity (being, as far as the ancient faith of the Church is concerned, an apostate sect, having rejected and put to death its Messiah and God).
So, I wouldn't cut him too much slack.
Again, nothing particularly anti-semitic about that unless, as I pointed out before, you're in the habit of confusing ethnicity and religion.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Because they received the prophecies which spoke of Christ
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We don't have any suggestion that the disciples understood the prophecies at the time, never mind other Jews. In fact the Emmaus story suggests that the disciples didn't do so. It's a tad unfair then to expect others to do so. The scriptures used as prophecy all mean other things when put in context.
With a bit of luck, the Teacher of Righteousness will come back and damn you to hell for not following the Qumran Community which proved their correct interpretation of the Hebrew Bible through linking texts with contemporary events.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
The more I hear that someone is confusing ethnicity and religion, the more I think that someone else is putting up a smokescreen.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
The more I hear that someone is confusing ethnicity and religion, the more I think that someone else is putting up a smokescreen.
Well, no. It's an important distinction. Anti-semitism has everything to do with ethnicity and very little to do with religion. To have a low opinion of Judaism in not necessarily to be anti-semitic.
[ 26. February 2015, 18:14: Message edited by: Ad Orientem ]
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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