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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Minnesota dentist who shot Cecil the Lion
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
What gets me is that the poor old lion was lured out of its sanctuary to be murdered. Because it wouldn't have been legal to kill it inside but once it was out, "fair game".
The luring was apparently done not by the dentist (he wouldn't know how) but by the locals who had to come up with a lion. I don't know if failing to find a lion would have resulted in having to refund the $35,000 or just in getting a reputation for failing to deliver that would quickly kill their business. Either way, they were under strong pressure to not care how they got a lion, and possibly believe "the only sin is getting caught." Whoops, they got caught.
If a couple dozen other collared lions have been killed, luring is perhaps a common way to finding a lion to satisfy the client's need to kill. This time they lured the wrong (from their viewpoint) collared lion. The "right" collared lion to lure would be one with no name/reputation.
I wonder what will happen to the dentist. Most people have real short memories. His life could be back to almost normal in a few months? And then on to the next "hunt"?
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
This is America. He will lose a few lefty patients, but will quickly become a darling of the right-wing gun nuts, who will see him as a martyr being persecuted by the liberal media (and yes, piling on the yelp reviews, publishing his address, etc. doesn't help counter that narrative). He'll pick up enough right wing patients drawn to his celebrity to more than replace the lefty ones who leave. And he might pick up a couple of high-ticket speaking engagements where all he needs to do is strut around with his gun.
![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
There is now a "Dentists for Lions" group fundraising for LionAid.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
What gets me is that you only get in trouble if you kill a favourite lion.
And in other news, the abortion pill was approved for sale in Canada this week.
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
That actually isn't such a bad idea. At least give the guy some tangible education in empathy.
I gotta say it, as disgusting as I find the whole matter, what is happening on Yelp isn't giving me any better view of humanity than this douche did. Not only are they forcing the Yelp admins to delete hundreds of duplicate posts a day, but they are now calling it obstruction of free speech. Because, you know, even if they left up five pages of "reviews" sounding off on this guy's ethics(which they have), if they didn't let the other 150 pages stand, they are enabling a murderer.
Jimmy Kimmel has it right--go ahead and sound off, but then express your outrage in the form of a check to the wildlife preservation fund. Picking on a bunch of code monkeys at a review site helps nothing.
Seriously. Why do people have to take things so far that I end up feeling sorry for the bad guy. He was a heartless idiot. He thought he would be admired for his macho skills and instead he now knows he is hated by thousands. He has lost his business and his standing in the community. That's enough now.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
What gets me is that you only get in trouble if you kill a favourite lion.
And in other news, the abortion pill was approved for sale in Canada this week.
I don't know exactly what connection you're trying to draw, but if you make it clearer there seems a fairly good chance I'm going to tell you to fuck off.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
This is America. He will lose a few lefty patients, but will quickly become a darling of the right-wing gun nuts, who will see him as a martyr being persecuted by the liberal media (and yes, piling on the yelp reviews, publishing his address, etc. doesn't help counter that narrative). He'll pick up enough right wing patients drawn to his celebrity to more than replace the lefty ones who leave. And he might pick up a couple of high-ticket speaking engagements where all he needs to do is strut around with his gun.
Time will tell. I don't know anyone who kills animals for the hell of it, just to get a stuffed head on a wall. I do see a lot of deer heads, but the deer meat is eaten.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Looks like there's trouble brewing in the UK for someone who killed an "anonymous" lion: link. Warning: link contains some potentially distressing images.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
And no one can say that deer are endangered. You can have all of mine; they ate all the daylily buds.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
That actually isn't such a bad idea. At least give the guy some tangible education in empathy.
I gotta say it, as disgusting as I find the whole matter, what is happening on Yelp isn't giving me any better view of humanity than this douche did. Not only are they forcing the Yelp admins to delete hundreds of duplicate posts a day, but they are now calling it obstruction of free speech. Because, you know, even if they left up five pages of "reviews" sounding off on this guy's ethics(which they have), if they didn't let the other 150 pages stand, they are enabling a murderer.
Jimmy Kimmel has it right--go ahead and sound off, but then express your outrage in the form of a check to the wildlife preservation fund. Picking on a bunch of code monkeys at a review site helps nothing.
Seriously. Why do people have to take things so far that I end up feeling sorry for the bad guy. He was a heartless idiot. He thought he would be admired for his macho skills and instead he now knows he is hated by thousands. He has lost his business and his standing in the community. That's enough now.
I am not quite Christian enough to feel sorry for him-- satisfied, maybe, that karma has hit him good, and we can drop it now--but there are now people freaking stirring up grassroots protests against Yelp itself, merely for saying, "Y'all made your point, can you take this to Huffpost, please?"
That ie bullshit, and bullying to boot. Not of Dr. Killgood, you understand, but of Yelp employees just doing their job.
[ 31. July 2015, 14:05: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Looks like there's trouble brewing in the UK for someone who killed an "anonymous" lion: link. Warning: link contains some potentially distressing images.
Yeah, so I'm a lawyer, but to me when I read in that article that someone says "lion killing is unacceptable", it clearly IS acceptable. To the law of the land where it happened.
(The killing of Cecil, on the other hand, is not acceptable to the law of Zimbabwe.)
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?), but I'm able to grasp that there's a big gap between it not being acceptable to me and treating that unacceptability as some kind of universal truth. The proposition that you might strip someone's title for having engaged in a perfectly legal activity that some people don't like seems rather ridiculous.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
there's a big gap between it not being acceptable to me and treating that unacceptability as some kind of universal truth
What do you mean? You've clearly never heard of Natural Law. Let me explain it to you in dense walls of text with a bazillion links, and you can't help but agree with me.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
... someone says "lion killing is unacceptable", it clearly IS acceptable. To the law of the land where it happened.
...I'm able to grasp that there's a big gap between it not being acceptable to me and treating that unacceptability as some kind of universal truth. The proposition that you might strip someone's title for having engaged in a perfectly legal activity that some people don't like seems rather ridiculous.
But we do make some laws with international force, for example the UK Bribery Act says it doesn't matter if you're not breaking the law in the country where you do the corruption. If it would be illegal in the UK, it's illegal. I think the FCPA has similar international reach.
There are some crimes that we've decided not to export. This isn't, yet, one of them.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Incidentally, my dentist shot his own dog. By accident, so he says.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
That post plus your sig are the beginnings of a torrid country song.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?),
It might be quite amusing to watch someone trying to hit a lion with a paintball marker, but it's still ultimately going to result in a dead lion.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?), but I'm able to grasp that there's a big gap between it not being acceptable to me and treating that unacceptability as some kind of universal truth.
Isn't that how laws get made in the first place? Enough people find something unacceptable so they make it illegal.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?),
It might be quite amusing to watch someone trying to hit a lion with a paintball marker, but it's still ultimately going to result in a dead lion.
Depends what you're using in your paint, I suppose.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?),
It might be quite amusing to watch someone trying to hit a lion with a paintball marker, but it's still ultimately going to result in a dead lion.
My first thought was, what are ypu gonna do now that you've attracted the lion's attention? Run away? Hope you run fast."
Camera, really.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Depends what you're using in your paint, I suppose.
Yes, OK, I was rather assuming that nobody is daft enough to walk around near a lion without some kind of high calibre backup...
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Depends what you're using in your paint, I suppose.
Yes, OK, I was rather assuming that nobody is daft enough to walk around near a lion without some kind of high calibre backup...
Well, dang. That's not much of a sport then, is it? I envisaged teams of paintballers, roaming the savannah, tagging lions and then running away as quickly as possible, hoping that they weren't the slowest in their group...
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
Zimbabwe has requested his extradition. US Fish & Game is trying to find him, but he's gone to ground. Maybe he needs to be lured out now?
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Well, dang. That's not much of a sport then, is it? I envisaged teams of paintballers, roaming the savannah, tagging lions and then running away as quickly as possible, hoping that they weren't the slowest in their group...
Perhaps the lions could be equipped with different coloured raddles, so we can keep score.
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Zimbabwe has requested his extradition. US Fish & Game is trying to find him, but he's gone to ground. Maybe he needs to be lured out now?
How do you lure a dentist? Trail around some people in expensive clothes with crooked teeth?
[ 31. July 2015, 16:12: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?), but I'm able to grasp that there's a big gap between it not being acceptable to me and treating that unacceptability as some kind of universal truth.
Isn't that how laws get made in the first place? Enough people find something unacceptable so they make it illegal.
Yes, but note the order of those two events.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Depends what you're using in your paint, I suppose.
Yes, OK, I was rather assuming that nobody is daft enough to walk around near a lion without some kind of high calibre backup...
But Cecil wasn't gunned down in the heat of the moment. He died 40 hours later. If shooting a lion with an arrow doesn't cause the lion to attack you in such a way that back-up is required, I'm not sure why we're assuming shooting it with a paintball would.
[ 31. July 2015, 16:39: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
And while I generally agree that 3 is atrocious, not just for animals that we find easy to humanise, zoos are nowadays often a last holdout against extinction...)
Living in a zoo or a cage is no life at all. As horrible as extinction is, I think it would be more compassionate to let the species go. No more animals should be taken out of the wild for research, display, performing, becoming pets, etc.
Take all the creatures out of the zoos, labs, and other forms of captivity, and give them the best life possible--probably one of those animal rehab and conservation facilities.
Close down all the zoos. Or display only 3D holograms. Maybe have a live feed from cameras in the wild--*if* the cameras, frequencies, etc. won't disturb the creatures.
So let it be written, so let it be done.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Depends what you're using in your paint, I suppose.
Yes, OK, I was rather assuming that nobody is daft enough to walk around near a lion without some kind of high calibre backup...
But Cecil wasn't gunned down in the heat of the moment. He died 40 hours later. If shooting a lion with an arrow doesn't cause the lion to attack you in such a way that back-up is required, I'm not sure why we're assuming shooting it with a paintball would.
Because the arrow would injure the lion, and it might not be capable of attack. Whereas the paint ball would just piss it off...a LOT.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Golden Key - have you heard of the Durrell Wildlife Trust or read any of Gerald Durrell's zoo books*? When it was established Jersey Zoo was set up for research, education and conservation, open to the public for entertainment and to raise funds. It holds specific collections to rebuild the numbers of endangered species in captivity for reintroduction in the wild. The organisation works with zoos across the world to develop conservation work. A huge part of the work is ensuring that there is somewhere to reintroduce the animals which gives them a chance to reintegrate, because often, usually, one of the reasons these animals are on the edge of extinction is habitat loss.
* The Stationary Ark is all about zoo conservation and The Aye-Aye and I is one several books about his conservation missions.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?), but I'm able to grasp that there's a big gap between it not being acceptable to me and treating that unacceptability as some kind of universal truth.
Isn't that how laws get made in the first place? Enough people find something unacceptable so they make it illegal.
Yes, but note the order of those two events.
Please explain.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Curiosity Killed--
Thanks for the link. Will check it out, when I have time.
I read a couple of Durrell books--one by George, and one by Lawrence (?)--about their childhood experiences with animals. Good reads.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Chocoholic
Shipmate
# 4655
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Posted
It seems his brother has been killed too now. It was thought he'd protect the cubs. Sad for this and all the other animals killed by trophy hunters.
Posts: 773 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2003
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Gerald Durrell's brother? Thought they both died ages ago....
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chocoholic:
It seems his brother has been killed too now. It was thought he'd protect the cubs. Sad for this and all the other animals killed by trophy hunters.
Fuck me. They must really hate those cubs for some reason.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?), but I'm able to grasp that there's a big gap between it not being acceptable to me and treating that unacceptability as some kind of universal truth.
Isn't that how laws get made in the first place? Enough people find something unacceptable so they make it illegal.
Yes, but note the order of those two events.
Please explain.
People finding something unacceptable can lead to it being made illegal. But there remains a period in between where something being unacceptable to many does not mean it is illegal.
There are many places in the world where hunting for sport is still legal (but with rules, which in Cecil's case were probably broken). There are people who want to ban all hunting for sport. But hunters are required to follow the rules, not the opinions of certain people.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Chocoholic:
It seems his brother has been killed too now. It was thought he'd protect the cubs. Sad for this and all the other animals killed by trophy hunters.
Fuck me. They must really hate those cubs for some reason.
False alarm-- Jericho's collar is still showing normal movement.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There are many places in the world where hunting for sport is still legal (but with rules, which in Cecil's case were probably broken). There are people who want to ban all hunting for sport. But hunters are required to follow the rules, not the opinions of certain people.
Okay, granted all that. Are people who find this kind of thing morally offensive not allowed to speak out about it? Just because something is legal doesn't mean people have to like it, and doesn't mean they can't speak out against it. I don't understand what point you're making here vis-a-vis this case.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There are many places in the world where hunting for sport is still legal (but with rules, which in Cecil's case were probably broken). There are people who want to ban all hunting for sport. But hunters are required to follow the rules, not the opinions of certain people.
Okay, granted all that. Are people who find this kind of thing morally offensive not allowed to speak out about it? Just because something is legal doesn't mean people have to like it, and doesn't mean they can't speak out against it. I don't understand what point you're making here vis-a-vis this case.
Well, in the UK case people weren't just speaking out about it, they were demanding that someone have their award stripped from them. They're demanding official sanction for something that isn't officially wrong.
[ 02. August 2015, 05:48: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Indeed, wonderful though the Internet is we are seeing more and more the Lynch-mob mentality re-emerging.
Do something you might think is'nt a big deal and before you know it you're being shafted sideways with a RFI by half the World's IT population.
[ 02. August 2015, 11:40: Message edited by: rolyn ]
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Indeed, wonderful though the Internet is we are seeing more and more the Lynch-mob mentality re-emerging.
Do something you might think is'nt a big deal and before you know it you're being shafted sideways with a RFI by half the World's IT population.
Really. It's frightening. The lynch-mob seems to have no scale of lynch worthy behavior either. Careers can be ruined over an out-dated no longer PC word, just as easily as over rape allegations.
Whether someone's bad action is tsked and forgotten or results in a month long session of picketing and death threats hinges on how much video we have and the appealing aspect of the victim.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Much as a deplore the actions of the dentist, I gotta agree. For me, one of the unintended consequences of the pile-on cyber-shaming (which I suppose by participating in this thread I've contributed to in part) is that it turns the villain into a victim-- not just the faux victim of whiny conservatives complaining about "free speech" when people don't agree with them, but a real victim who has suffered real losses sometimes out of proportion with their crime. Which then makes it all the harder to address the real issues at play.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
... pile-on cyber-shaming ...
Don't we try to teach our children not to bully people?
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
The Internet was right to get outraged. The Internet was right to name and shame. It was not right to threaten in any way.
This included the Yelp reviews.
The uproar caused by the shooting of Cecil appears to be having positive effect re the hunting of lions.
But it has gone too far re the dentist.
He, however, is not an innocent victim. He is reaping what he has sown. The problem is proportion.
He is receiving more than he deserves.
And the sad thing is, it is being delivered by people who don't really care. We become mobs because it provides a positive affirmation. We belong.
Say you have a cause and wish 100 protestors to march. Ringing people up will prove a long task to find those 100. But put 25 on the street in front of a camera and the other 75 will appear, each with several friends.
The Internet adds ease and anonymity. We get to be part of something with little consequence. The mob multiplied exponentially.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
... pile-on cyber-shaming ...
Don't we try to teach our children not to bully people?
??? Are you under the impression that we only try to teach our children about things that are not a problem ???
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
*cross-posted with LilBuddah, who explained the issues more succinctly then I did.*
[ 03. August 2015, 17:57: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yeah, Lilb's post was spot on.
Cliffdweller, unless you are hitting Yelp every half hour with a dozen or so posts and snarling hatred at the poor saps who keep deleting them, I don't think you have to worry about being one of the perpetrators of mob think.
On the Ship we seem to be discussing the issue proportionately, if passionately. The Yelp situation is like one of those playbacks of the lost crew in "Event Horizon" . Everybody's behavior is less about justice and more about impressing each other. The outrage is not coming from actual injustice, it is about getting some of your shiny net plumage yanked, about how x individual got quoted on Buzzfeed and that mean old copy editor pulled * your* moment of brilliance before John Oliver could quote it.
[ 03. August 2015, 19:32: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Everybody's behavior is less about justice and more about impressing each other. The outrage is not coming from actual injustice, it is about getting some of your shiny net plumage yanked,
Such a powerful tool for positive change and instead of using the tool, we become tools.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
In case you're not already riled up enough, you might like to investigate the photo gallery on this page.
I was particularly taken with the section of that website called "Provider for Christ Hunting Adventure".
According to the itinerary, this includes:
quote:
1.Transfer from the airport to our camp, accommodations, and meals, worship and Christian seminars by local ministers. (You may bring your own to share with us as well). Ground transportation during your Safari.
2. Hunting of 1 Animal to include choice of: Impala, Blesbok, Blue Wildebeest (up-gradable and additional animals available). 15% Seminar Discount will apply to the trophy fees of all plains game animals taken with meat donated. Trophy skins/horn’s/skulls remain yours. (Taxidermy and shipping/dipping is your responsibility. We will facilitate trophy preparation and salting).
3. Minister to the poor at an orphanage and squatters camp with a Christian organization. This will involve bringing your meat to the camps and using your other talents to help the children. Feel free to bring needed items such as candy, clothing sports equipment, and medical supplies. These are always in short supply and greatly appreciated
Good to know these kinds of things exist, I think. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
In case you're not already riled up enough, you might like to investigate the photo gallery on this page.
Oh dear Lord the apostrophe. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Oh dear Lord the apostrophe.
If punctuation is the worst thing about that page, then there is a very serious problem.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
In case you're not already riled up enough, you might like to investigate the photo gallery on this page.
I was particularly taken with the section of that website called "Provider for Christ Hunting Adventure".
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I love the expression of the child beneath the charming photo of the white children with their trophy kill. Her face says, so clearly: 'WTF?'
Indeed.
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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Oh dear Lord the apostrophe.
If punctuation is the worst thing about that page, then there is a very serious problem.
What's really serious is your inability to get people to take you seriously when you want to be taken seriously. It's a serious problem.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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