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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Minnesota dentist who shot Cecil the Lion
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Golden Key - have you heard of the Durrell Wildlife Trust or read any of Gerald Durrell's zoo books*? When it was established Jersey Zoo was set up for research, education and conservation, open to the public for entertainment and to raise funds. It holds specific collections to rebuild the numbers of endangered species in captivity for reintroduction in the wild. The organisation works with zoos across the world to develop conservation work. A huge part of the work is ensuring that there is somewhere to reintroduce the animals which gives them a chance to reintegrate, because often, usually, one of the reasons these animals are on the edge of extinction is habitat loss.
* The Stationary Ark is all about zoo conservation and The Aye-Aye and I is one several books about his conservation missions.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?), but I'm able to grasp that there's a big gap between it not being acceptable to me and treating that unacceptability as some kind of universal truth.
Isn't that how laws get made in the first place? Enough people find something unacceptable so they make it illegal.
Yes, but note the order of those two events.
Please explain.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Curiosity Killed--
Thanks for the link. Will check it out, when I have time.
I read a couple of Durrell books--one by George, and one by Lawrence (?)--about their childhood experiences with animals. Good reads.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Chocoholic
Shipmate
# 4655
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Posted
It seems his brother has been killed too now. It was thought he'd protect the cubs. Sad for this and all the other animals killed by trophy hunters.
Posts: 773 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2003
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Gerald Durrell's brother? Thought they both died ages ago....
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chocoholic:
It seems his brother has been killed too now. It was thought he'd protect the cubs. Sad for this and all the other animals killed by trophy hunters.
Fuck me. They must really hate those cubs for some reason.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Killing animals for sport isn't acceptable to me (use a camera please, or why the hell can't they switch to paintball guns?), but I'm able to grasp that there's a big gap between it not being acceptable to me and treating that unacceptability as some kind of universal truth.
Isn't that how laws get made in the first place? Enough people find something unacceptable so they make it illegal.
Yes, but note the order of those two events.
Please explain.
People finding something unacceptable can lead to it being made illegal. But there remains a period in between where something being unacceptable to many does not mean it is illegal.
There are many places in the world where hunting for sport is still legal (but with rules, which in Cecil's case were probably broken). There are people who want to ban all hunting for sport. But hunters are required to follow the rules, not the opinions of certain people.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Chocoholic:
It seems his brother has been killed too now. It was thought he'd protect the cubs. Sad for this and all the other animals killed by trophy hunters.
Fuck me. They must really hate those cubs for some reason.
False alarm-- Jericho's collar is still showing normal movement.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There are many places in the world where hunting for sport is still legal (but with rules, which in Cecil's case were probably broken). There are people who want to ban all hunting for sport. But hunters are required to follow the rules, not the opinions of certain people.
Okay, granted all that. Are people who find this kind of thing morally offensive not allowed to speak out about it? Just because something is legal doesn't mean people have to like it, and doesn't mean they can't speak out against it. I don't understand what point you're making here vis-a-vis this case.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There are many places in the world where hunting for sport is still legal (but with rules, which in Cecil's case were probably broken). There are people who want to ban all hunting for sport. But hunters are required to follow the rules, not the opinions of certain people.
Okay, granted all that. Are people who find this kind of thing morally offensive not allowed to speak out about it? Just because something is legal doesn't mean people have to like it, and doesn't mean they can't speak out against it. I don't understand what point you're making here vis-a-vis this case.
Well, in the UK case people weren't just speaking out about it, they were demanding that someone have their award stripped from them. They're demanding official sanction for something that isn't officially wrong.
[ 02. August 2015, 05:48: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Indeed, wonderful though the Internet is we are seeing more and more the Lynch-mob mentality re-emerging.
Do something you might think is'nt a big deal and before you know it you're being shafted sideways with a RFI by half the World's IT population.
[ 02. August 2015, 11:40: Message edited by: rolyn ]
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Indeed, wonderful though the Internet is we are seeing more and more the Lynch-mob mentality re-emerging.
Do something you might think is'nt a big deal and before you know it you're being shafted sideways with a RFI by half the World's IT population.
Really. It's frightening. The lynch-mob seems to have no scale of lynch worthy behavior either. Careers can be ruined over an out-dated no longer PC word, just as easily as over rape allegations.
Whether someone's bad action is tsked and forgotten or results in a month long session of picketing and death threats hinges on how much video we have and the appealing aspect of the victim.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Much as a deplore the actions of the dentist, I gotta agree. For me, one of the unintended consequences of the pile-on cyber-shaming (which I suppose by participating in this thread I've contributed to in part) is that it turns the villain into a victim-- not just the faux victim of whiny conservatives complaining about "free speech" when people don't agree with them, but a real victim who has suffered real losses sometimes out of proportion with their crime. Which then makes it all the harder to address the real issues at play.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
... pile-on cyber-shaming ...
Don't we try to teach our children not to bully people?
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
The Internet was right to get outraged. The Internet was right to name and shame. It was not right to threaten in any way.
This included the Yelp reviews.
The uproar caused by the shooting of Cecil appears to be having positive effect re the hunting of lions.
But it has gone too far re the dentist.
He, however, is not an innocent victim. He is reaping what he has sown. The problem is proportion.
He is receiving more than he deserves.
And the sad thing is, it is being delivered by people who don't really care. We become mobs because it provides a positive affirmation. We belong.
Say you have a cause and wish 100 protestors to march. Ringing people up will prove a long task to find those 100. But put 25 on the street in front of a camera and the other 75 will appear, each with several friends.
The Internet adds ease and anonymity. We get to be part of something with little consequence. The mob multiplied exponentially.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
... pile-on cyber-shaming ...
Don't we try to teach our children not to bully people?
??? Are you under the impression that we only try to teach our children about things that are not a problem ???
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
*cross-posted with LilBuddah, who explained the issues more succinctly then I did.*
[ 03. August 2015, 17:57: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yeah, Lilb's post was spot on.
Cliffdweller, unless you are hitting Yelp every half hour with a dozen or so posts and snarling hatred at the poor saps who keep deleting them, I don't think you have to worry about being one of the perpetrators of mob think.
On the Ship we seem to be discussing the issue proportionately, if passionately. The Yelp situation is like one of those playbacks of the lost crew in "Event Horizon" . Everybody's behavior is less about justice and more about impressing each other. The outrage is not coming from actual injustice, it is about getting some of your shiny net plumage yanked, about how x individual got quoted on Buzzfeed and that mean old copy editor pulled * your* moment of brilliance before John Oliver could quote it.
[ 03. August 2015, 19:32: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Everybody's behavior is less about justice and more about impressing each other. The outrage is not coming from actual injustice, it is about getting some of your shiny net plumage yanked,
Such a powerful tool for positive change and instead of using the tool, we become tools.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
In case you're not already riled up enough, you might like to investigate the photo gallery on this page.
I was particularly taken with the section of that website called "Provider for Christ Hunting Adventure".
According to the itinerary, this includes:
quote:
1.Transfer from the airport to our camp, accommodations, and meals, worship and Christian seminars by local ministers. (You may bring your own to share with us as well). Ground transportation during your Safari.
2. Hunting of 1 Animal to include choice of: Impala, Blesbok, Blue Wildebeest (up-gradable and additional animals available). 15% Seminar Discount will apply to the trophy fees of all plains game animals taken with meat donated. Trophy skins/horn’s/skulls remain yours. (Taxidermy and shipping/dipping is your responsibility. We will facilitate trophy preparation and salting).
3. Minister to the poor at an orphanage and squatters camp with a Christian organization. This will involve bringing your meat to the camps and using your other talents to help the children. Feel free to bring needed items such as candy, clothing sports equipment, and medical supplies. These are always in short supply and greatly appreciated
Good to know these kinds of things exist, I think. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
In case you're not already riled up enough, you might like to investigate the photo gallery on this page.
Oh dear Lord the apostrophe. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Oh dear Lord the apostrophe.
If punctuation is the worst thing about that page, then there is a very serious problem.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
In case you're not already riled up enough, you might like to investigate the photo gallery on this page.
I was particularly taken with the section of that website called "Provider for Christ Hunting Adventure".
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I love the expression of the child beneath the charming photo of the white children with their trophy kill. Her face says, so clearly: 'WTF?'
Indeed.
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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Oh dear Lord the apostrophe.
If punctuation is the worst thing about that page, then there is a very serious problem.
What's really serious is your inability to get people to take you seriously when you want to be taken seriously. It's a serious problem.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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