|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: The optimist/pessimist line
|
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
|
Posted
I am one of those optimists who tries to look on the bright side and does my best to cheer people up who are feeling down. Some say I am irritating, others that my cheerfulness is infectious. When I have spent time with people who are down, I have come away drained while they have been uplifted, and so it is possible to cross the line.
I wonder where our religion feeds into this. Can it, does it help people to cross the line from pessimism to optimism?
Christianity is about good news: faith, hope and love; life after death, etc - it is upbeat, as I see it.
Is religion good for our health in this sense?
--------------------
Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
|
Posted
Organized religion can encourage optimism if done right. Unfortunately, some forms of religion are somewhat shaming and judgemental (or at least the practitioners are). I can't imagine the latter encouraging optimism.
I think that a good sense of loving community will encourage a greater sense of optimism.
sabine
--------------------
"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
I am a natural optimist as well. But have learnt to temper it toward neutral. This I think is sometime necessary as people who have good reason to be pessimistic may find me irritating.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
Christian hope is about trust in God, faith that the flawed and broken can be redeemed, what Mother Julian means when she talks about all things being well and all manner of things being well. With all respect to those who have posted upthread as optimists, beside that, a lot of what is described as optimism seems to me to be all too often something rather shallow and even self-deluding.
But if it works for you, good luck to you.
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
I try to be a realist, but often veer towards optimism.
Optimism doesn't work if it's just a naive form of positive thinking.
But, if we are motivated to have a go at improving things by having a go - or simply by approaching things with an optimistic attitude - then we can be productive and make a difference at a deep, not a shallow level.
I do find it hard to be around pessimists for too long and find they are often the ones to have the least to grumble about!
My Mum had a hard, hard life yet you never heard her grumble, she always put an optimistic slant on everything. My Dad's Mum was the opposite - a real hypochondriac, hard work to be around.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
|
Posted
One of the things that always made sense to me about Christianity growing up, in fact helped me stay convinced it was true when the doubts came, was the doctrine of original sin and the fall. It chimes with my naturally pessimistic view of the world I see around me.
Of course I now know that not all Christians believe in those things.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
I think I am a pessimist, but I have also been told I am an encourager. I think these go together - I don't hold up a naively positive view on life, but I can empathise and sympathise with those who suffer.
My faith is of vital importance, because it supports (IMO) both a pessimistic view of people, and an optimism view about what God can do. It gives hope because there is more than the suffering we are currently experiencing. But it doesn't dismiss this suffering.
Of course, there are those practitioners of organised religion who are enough to make anyone pessimistic about life.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
A Feminine Force
Ship's Onager
# 7812
|
Posted
After enduring many excruciating losses over the past 6 years, I came to the conclusion that hope is indeed and evil. It was included in Pandora's box and for good reason IMO.
Hope is a pain that persists, and a resistance that works to no profit against a tide that, in my opinion, would be better off unresisted.
The signage on the gates of hell is purported to read "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here". Well, from my own personal experience, I can say that the moment I abandoned hope was the moment I began to emerge from hell.
There's a certain clarity that comes with accepting what-is and then working within those parameters.
6 years of shore leave and I am finally free, and ready to witness to the benefits of scrapping hope in favor of accepting what-is.
Hell does indeed have an exit door, and hope misleadingly points the way out in the same direction you entered, but the way-out is never the way-in. The turnstiles don't revolve in that direction.
It was a good day when I abandoned the pain of hope. The energy it released in me propelled me through, and out. But not by the same way I came.
AFF
--------------------
C2C - The Cure for What Ails Ya?
Posts: 2115 | From: Kingdom of Heaven | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
|
Posted
Again, it's one of those things where 'it all depends.'
It depends on context and it depends how it's done.
A kind of enforce jollity or naive positive thinking type of optimism can actually be dangerous in my view.
There used to a be a lot of that about on the charismatic evangelical scene, encouraged by popular paperbacks like Merlon Carruther's 'From Prison To Praise' and Paul Yonghi Cho's 'Dream Your Way to Success' and so on.
It's become the stock-in-trade of some popular TV evangelists and authors.
![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Of course, it's possible to veer too far in an Eeyore direction too - as Sabine reminds us.
I had a friend who knew someone who pray lengthy prayers when saying grace before a meal. Invariably his prayer would begin, 'Miserable sinners ...!'
So, there are twin extremes to be avoided here.
'Hope deferred makes the heart sick ...'
http://biblehub.com/proverbs/13-12.htm
'... but a dream fulfilled is a tree of life.'
Mind you, this verse was often bandied about in charismatic circles as some kind of promise that your desires/dreams and hopes would invariably be fulfilled.
Of course they aren't. Welcome to real life.
I'm all for people being naturally positive and good to have around in that respect, but what I can't be doing with is the kind of forced, 'Look on the bright side and everything will work out fine ...' thing.
I've come across far too many casualties of that sort of schtick.
Now, I'm not advocating pessimism either.
We need a good dose of reality. We need a balance.
--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
|
Posted
Interesting takes on this, thank you all.
Some say that optimism is shallow, a denial of reality, a manipulatve pretence, but I see it as a source of joy and hope - yes, the kind of hope to hold on to that all shall be well.
It doesn't deny reality nor does it reduce pain or suffering. It draws us alongside people who are finding it tough to try to empathise with, support and strengthen them, not to allow a continuous cycle of wallowing but to help them toward the line into optimism.
The connection made between reality and pessimism is surely a false one. Some things will work out, some things won't.
I'm not convinced that I should try to temper my optimism, as it does bring pleasure to some people, it can be infectious. Should those who want me to be more gloomy try to temper their pessimism?
If the ideas of original sin and the fall appeal to pessimists, but not to optimists, I see no problem there. It is OK to latch on to narratives we find helpful, isn't it - as long as they take us over the line into optimism, into the joy of our faith?
--------------------
Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
|
Posted
Raptor Eye
How much do you think a person's personality is because of genetic make-up. I call myself an incurable optimist ![[Smile]](smile.gif) but I know I am also a realist and never, especially at my age, wear any metaphorical blinkers.
I was the second of four siblings, brought up by parents who were always fair, but we all have (had) quite different characters. The oldest died many years ago, I have always been the confident, cheerful one, one brother tends towards the pessimistic view and the youngest is one who looks on the bright side.
--------------------
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
I'm not convinced that I should try to temper my optimism, as it does bring pleasure to some people, it can be infectious. Should those who want me to be more gloomy try to temper their pessimism?
If the ideas of original sin and the fall appeal to pessimists, but not to optimists, I see no problem there. It is OK to latch on to narratives we find helpful, isn't it - as long as they take us over the line into optimism, into the joy of our faith?
I wouldn't say that the opposite of optimism is gloom. It seems to me that RE is conflating a day to day upbeat attitude with the belief that in the perspective of eternity, assuming that we can conceive of it, all shall indeed be well.
When things go wrong or don't happen as we feel they should, there may be a bright side to the situation, or in some respects an unexpectedly positive outcome at a later stage. However, let's not deny that they have gone wrong, and may (will!) do so again. I don't find that incompatible with an underlying serenity, which, IMO is where the joy of faith resides. It doesn't stop me from spitting teeth at some situations and people, or from predicting sourly (and often quite correctly) that a problem will pop up again and need solving - again.
[ubb problem solved]
[ 24. April 2016, 07:21: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
I would call that realism, jacobsen.
Acknowledging how things are when they are terrible isn't pessimism. It's looking forward and only seeing negatives - that's pessimistic imo.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
The connection made between reality and pessimism is surely a false one. Some things will work out, some things won't.
Nobody has mentioned 'optimism bias' (subject of a considerable study). Most people put themselves in the top 50% of safe drivers; told that the risk of getting cancer is about 1 in 3, most people assess their own risk as lower and so on.
One reference is here which seems typical of what I have read. One article suggested that mild depression leads to more realistic assessments of outcome. On the other hand being a bit over optimistic means you 'give it a go' and sometimes succeed rather not bothering to try.
But as others have said, it depends on the circumstances. People who have unprotected sex over-estimate the chances of the woman not getting pregnant.
Does anyone remember Gramsci? "Pessimism of the intellect but optimism of the will".
--------------------
"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Felafool
Shipmate
# 270
|
Posted
I used to be a Pessimist. Now that I have become an Optimist I can see a lot of good reasons for being a Pessimist.
--------------------
I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty - I ordered a cheeseburger.
Posts: 265 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
|
Posted
I'm not sure where this puts me, but I would distinguish between two very different types of hope. One is a tyranny which labels all acknowledgment of reality weak pessimism. It despises any opening of the damaged heart. This isn't optimism it's cruelty, it's scorn, masquerading as something positive.
I am starting to see a role for persistent hope, which some might call optimism. It acknowledges all the painful elements of experience, it values those who experience and express them, then it offers them to the God who is creator and lover of all, and opens itself constantly to that love.
I believe this to be what Julian had in mind in saying all shall be well.
--------------------
Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
I used to be a Pessimist. Now that I have become an Optimist I can see a lot of good reasons for being a Pessimist.
The Ship actually does have a Like button, so I used it.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
|
Posted
The the thing with optimism is that it can be smashed.
It was said that Britain's vital optimism died on the Somme and never fully recovered. I wonder if the same can be said for the States and Vietnam?
However I'm inclined to agree with Boogie on the realism bit. For in both the above examples the countries involved weren't broken but went on to adopt a more realistic approach to such matters.
--------------------
Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Pessimism is IMHO not necessarily being gloomy or a drag but rather acknowledging the fact that reality on some levels has a definite skew towards Murphy's law. Some may call this realism. I call it pessimism because I end up being a bit of an Eeyore--but hey, when we go camping, my tent is the one that doesn't get flooded because I expected it to happen and took steps to avoid it. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif) You want to be in MY tent.
(I'm also the one who remembers to pack a pharmacy full of drugs and to take the AAA card in case we break down on the side of the road. And I always have a hanky.)
But on a deeper (and more real) level, my pessimism is totally contradicted by Christianity. I can't help that and have surrendered to force majeure. God has decreed that the story of the universe shall be a comedy and not a tragedy in the end, and though Christ died, he has risen from the dead and will share that resurrection with all of creation. This awareness runs under my surface pessimism and forces me to stop my Eeyore imitation whenever I remember it. Which is (as everyone will tell you) not often enough! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
ETA: sorry about URL program, Internet Exploder won't render it right.
[Fixed URL: see host post]
[ 24. April 2016, 21:24: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
hosting/
Public Service Announcement/
The Ship doesn't like certain characters in URLs, such as % signs, which are common in Wikipedia links, amongst others.
The workaround for this is to shorten the link using, for instance, tinyurl.com .
If, when previewing posts, as we all always do, a link has not displayed properly, please try putting it through tinyurl.com to see if that fixes it.
Thank you for your cooperation.
/Public Service Announcement
/hosting
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
Raptor Eye
How much do you think a person's personality is because of genetic make-up. I call myself an incurable optimist but I know I am also a realist and never, especially at my age, wear any metaphorical blinkers.
I was the second of four siblings, brought up by parents who were always fair, but we all have (had) quite different characters. The oldest died many years ago, I have always been the confident, cheerful one, one brother tends towards the pessimistic view and the youngest is one who looks on the bright side.
Undoubtedly our nature and nurture affect our disposition toward pessimism or optimism, along with all of our tendencies, good and bad.
Our personalities may be positively affected by faith, to help reduce those bad tendencies and enhance the good ones.
I see pessimism as Boogie does, a tendency to negativity that can be trying, rather than a tendency to caution or to look to cover all eventualities 'just in case'.
--------------------
Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
Undoubtedly our nature and nurture affect our disposition toward pessimism or optimism, along with all of our tendencies, good and bad.
Our personalities may be positively affected by faith, to help reduce those bad tendencies and enhance the good ones.
I see pessimism as Boogie does, a tendency to negativity that can be trying, rather than a tendency to caution or to look to cover all eventualities 'just in case'.
Thank you - it seems we are pretty much agreed here!
--------------------
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Humble Servant
Shipmate
# 18391
|
Posted
My grandfather took pride in his pessimism. He always said that he'd rather look on the dark side and be surprised by how things turn out, than look on the bright side and end up disappointed. He lived to 92, with chronic back pain, nursing his wife's dementia for the last 5 years of it.
I recently heard an optimistic twist on the old "glass half full/empty" metaphor: don't worry which it is - the glass can be refilled.
Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2015
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Humble Servant:
My grandfather took pride in his pessimism. He always said that he'd rather look on the dark side and be surprised by how things turn out, than look on the bright side and end up disappointed.
But I don't think that's really pessimism, it's a sort of qualified optimism!
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707
|
Posted
There was a very interesting radio programme on the BBC radio 4 a few weeks ago in which Bryan Appleyard puts the case that our society is dominated by irrational optimism. You can find it here. Well worth a listen in my opinion.
Optimism our enemy
--------------------
We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai
Posts: 2210 | From: london | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
I'm not sure where this puts me, but I would distinguish between two very different types of hope. One is a tyranny which labels all acknowledgment of reality weak pessimism. It despises any opening of the damaged heart. This isn't optimism it's cruelty, it's scorn, masquerading as something positive.
I am starting to see a role for persistent hope, which some might call optimism. It acknowledges all the painful elements of experience, it values those who experience and express them, then it offers them to the God who is creator and lover of all, and opens itself constantly to that love.
I believe this to be what Julian had in mind in saying all shall be well.
Yes, this, thank you. Everything that is good can be corrupted and used to deceive, but the truth reveals its goodness.
--------------------
Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
What do folks think of this article (linking neuroscience and positive thinking)?
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
There was a very interesting radio programme on the BBC radio 4 a few weeks ago in which Bryan Appleyard puts the case that our society is dominated by irrational optimism. You can find it here. Well worth a listen in my opinion.
Optimism our enemy
I skimmed through this, thank you. It was a reflection of this thread in many ways.
Some think that optimists believe that we can make good things happen by thinking positively. I don't hold with this, but agree with the point made that a positive outlook may give us the impetus to try to do things that others might assume will fail.
Some equate pessimism with a realistic outlook rather than a negative one. The point made here was that pessimists are happier people, as they are surprised when all goes well, and more likely to address issues which will stop them from going well. Those pessimists I have met have not been happier than the optimists I know, quite the opposite - and optimists may also be realists.
--------------------
Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
|
Posted
I find myself wondering where pragmatism fits on the optimism/pessimism scale.
'S*** happens; deal with it; move on' works pretty well for me now. Maybe it's age? There have been some rough patches in the past, but they're so far behind I can barely remember them.
Age does bring physical limits but so far nothing I can't accommodate myself to and carry on.
Maybe that's hubris. If I crash I'll let you know.
GG
--------------------
The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
|
Posted
Posted by Raptor Eye:- pessimists are happier people, as they are surprised when all goes well, and more likely to address issues which will stop them from going well.
I think that is the point - foresee possible - not necessarily inevitable - trouble, and act to forestall it. That is common sense. The optimism which refuses to recognise the possibility of things going wrong is in fact willful blindness.
--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
There is also that optimism that simply does not imagine any of the bad possibilities out there, and therefore takes no precautions. Mr. Lamb tends more toward this end of the spectrum, which is why I've had to play wet blanket for years. But hey, this wet blanket is the reason why we had forks and spoons at a church potluck. Never leave an optimist to determine what supplies need restocking--unless they actually go LOOK in the cupboards instead of relying on memory and hope. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
ETA: a similar pessimism is the reason we've had real, properly-temped water in the baptismal font on two occasions. Nobody wants to get halfway through the service to confront an empty font--or worse, one with near-boiling water in it due to a tap and brain failure on somebody else's part.
[ 02. May 2016, 15:47: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
|
Posted
The idea that optimists are not realistic and don't consider what might go wrong, unlike pessimists, does not ring true to experience for me.
Rather, optimists I know including myself take all precautions and know that irl all kinds of things go wrong, but we are ready to go ahead anyway and live in the hope that all shall be well.
Some pessimists will often not go ahead, and will deter others from doing so, so sure are they that ventures will fail.
--------------------
Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Truman White
Shipmate
# 17290
|
Posted
There are a number of studies that link optimism to positive health outcomes. Here's one
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-heart/201309/optimism-may-increase-longevity-0.
There's a certain circularity to optimism. You get energised by a positive outlook, do stuff that makes you feel better about life, exercise more control and self autonomy which in turn promotes self effcancy which in turn makes you want to look forward optimistically.
On that basis, optimism is a combination of outlook and action.
Posts: 476 | Registered: Aug 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Good for Nothing
Apprentice
# 17722
|
Posted
I try to maintain a dialogue with antinatalists who impress me with their honesty and sensitivity. I follow their arguments but my religious sense contradicts their negativity.
One of them wrote this. How might I respond?
"I consider life in this world to be an absolute horror and an abomination. Each antinatalist will have his or her own reasons for their continued existence. For me it is that my attempts at suicide have all been failures. The reality is that suicide is much harder to achieve than we are led to believe. I've never had any access to a gun, and the only methods available to me have been too horrendous to contemplate (ie: burn to death). Another obstacle in the way to a much-wished-for demise is the scary fact that many suicide attempts end in grisly failure. Even shooting yourself in the head is not a guaranteed death and may result in profound disfigurement. So there's the first point...why am I here?...because I have no means to leave. The other reason are my pets who depend upon me, and who I could not forsake. I promise you I have known in a primitive way since the day that I was born that I did not want to be born, that it has been disastrous for me, and that I would have been better off never living at all. Hell, all of us would have been better off. Every day of my life I have wished I was not imprisoned by my selfish and unthinking parents in this straight-jacket skin-suit of flesh and nerve endings which confine me and at any moment can subject me to unbearable pain, as it has all too many times before. So I continue my journey through the minefield of life, from unexpected pain to unexpected pain, until gratefully my journey is over. At least I have educated others during my unwanted stay on this planet and hopefully prevented many births by doing so."
Posts: 20 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Jun 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
|
Posted
Supporting the idea of how difficult suicide can be to achieve, this
This is not to invalidate the feelings of those people who genuinely wish not to exist.
--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Joesaphat
Shipmate
# 18493
|
Posted
Can't remember who wrote this, but it's wise: optimists tend to think we live in the best possible world, pessimists fear they may very well be right.
--------------------
Opening my mouth and removing all doubt, online.
Posts: 418 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
(Not for direct personal reasons, but I feel uncomfortable when suicide is discussed on the Ship.)
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
hosting/
This seems a good time to remind everyone (again) of our FAQs: quote:
The Ship is not an adequate stand-in for counselling services. Posts which seek to elicit such responses are strongly discouraged, and repeated posts along those lines will be deleted.
Neither is the Ship an appropriate or adequate venue for suicidal ideations. Do not waste precious time by posting here. If you suspect that your feelings of hopelessness or despair are more than just a reaction to a difficult time in your life or normal spiritual angst, or you think about suicide, then you need professional help, immediately, and you can't get that here.
Thank you for your cooperation.
/hosting
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
