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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: RIP Toby
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
My beloved dog of 17 years had to be put to sleep a couple of days ago and naturally I am very distressed. Eventually we will receive his ashes which I want to place in the garden where he played. My grandchildren want us to hold a funeral service and I'm not sure what form this should take. Can we say over Toby 'In sure and certain hope of the resurrection' etc or is that only for humans? What have other people done? Is there a correct format for a pet dog's funeral service? I had been going to do something quietly on my own, but my grandchildren want a 'real service' as they expressed it.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Dorothy Sayers wrote a wonderful poem about Timothy, her cat. Essentially it explains (in meter and rhyme!) why she is certain her cat will be in Paradise with her.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
Hooray for the grandchildren, say I!
I would make it as much like a human funeral as you want. Definitely "in sure and certain hope" - because if our pets aren't going to be there, I don't think I want to be there either.
My daughter's cat has just died and I know how upset she is. And rightly so - her cat was a wonderful creature and we know she had an amazing lifestory, if only she could have written it down (on the streets twice in her early life, facing being put down as vicious and unmanageable, and then being rescued by my daughter, who loved her to bits and was loved in return by a cat who had never known love before). The thought that she may not be there in heaven is not one I wish to consider. What DOES give me hope and joy is that she will be there with another special cat, who died long before she was born. I don't think anything would give me greater joy than to have the two of them wandering around my feet, tripping me up.
(Excuse me now, while I go off and have a little weep.)
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
I don't know that you can make it a Christian funeral though. What you can do is to give thanks for the comfort and enjoyment that Toby brought into your lives.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
Won't animals that shared our mortal lives share our resurrected lives also?
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Won't animals that shared our mortal lives share our resurrected lives also?
Unless I'm totally hallucinating I think C. S. Lewis said something along those lines in ??The Problem of Pain?? Can't remember for sure.
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Won't animals that shared our mortal lives share our resurrected lives also?
Without being able to quote any authority, I'd say no. I don't know on what C S Lewis may have based what he may have said.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Won't animals that shared our mortal lives share our resurrected lives also?
Unless I'm totally hallucinating I think C. S. Lewis said something along those lines in ??The Problem of Pain?? Can't remember for sure.
No not the "Problem of Pain" but the "Great Divorce". The book is interesting in that it imaginatively puts forward a modernization on the nature of heaven and hell, but as a fictional narrative it is speculative, not definitive and I doubt we can read even C.S. Lewis' view on animals post-resurrection from it let alone that of the Church.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
As an Eccles answer rather than Purg, I used these lightly adapted CofE prayers on the towpath as we sent our beloved dog Hazel's ashes off in a candle-lit paper boat down the river where she used to run. Heresy carefully avoided, I think.
quote:
God of mercy,
as we mourn Hazel's death and commend her to your care,
we thank you for her life and all that she meant to each of us,
For the 14 years she shared with us,
the good we saw in her,
the love we received from her.
[... shared memories ... ]
Now give us strength and courage
to commit her to your care.
We make our prayer
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen.
O God, who brought us all to birth,
and in whose arms we all die,
in our grief and shock
contain and comfort us;
embrace us with your love,
give us hope in our confusion
and grace to let go into new life;
through Jesus Christ.
Amen.
Q.
(Welling up again even after 10 years)
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Full Circle
Shipmate
# 15398
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Posted
The Anglican Society for the Welfare of Animals has a downloadable booklet of prayers and readings in their loss of an animal pages: www.aswa.org.uk/page/loss_of_an_animal/
They list other helpful paper resources too.
I think it a great resource for starting to think about all animals through a theological lens
I hope it is helpful
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Beware the monocausal fallacy (Anon)
Posts: 232 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2010
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I don't know that you can make it a Christian funeral though.
Sure, go ahead and tell kids that the dog they loved isn't worthy of Christian burial. Might as well put them off Christianity as early as possible, get it over with.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I rather think we WILL have them back again in the resurrection, though the way in which that might happen is not clear now. But a lot of the images we have for the Messianic kingdom involve animals, and the "new creation" must surely involve the recreation/renewal/resurrection of a great deal of the present creation, surely?
I see no reason to suppose that the new heavens and new earth will be poorer in living things than the present set.
As a result, my family does bury our pets with prayer and thanksgiving, and when it comes to Scripture, we just draw on passages about the renewal of creation in Christ as opposed to the specifically human/sinner oriented bits. And of course the bit about the fall of a sparrow, etc.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I think we are left with memories.
During a dog's life, we are his/her everything. The centre of their world. The blessing is to have had the experience of being there for their entire life. You can't go back again. I see dogs that looked like mine, and think wistfully. Then I go home to the dog and cat who are still with us (down to one of each just now).
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Ye Olde Motherboarde
Ship's Mother and Singing Quilter
# 54
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Posted
Dear Bib,
Living out in the country, it is the circle of life. watching our animals get ill, then die is heart wrenching. However, I believe our horses, chickens and dogs, which have made our lives so happy and full of love are going to be waiting for me when I go to heaven. Its the only thing that gets me through the day, but I still cry at the moments notice.
My sympathies on your loss,
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In Memory of Miss Molly, TimC, Gambit, KenWritez, koheleth, Leetle Masha, JLG, Genevieve, Erin, RuthW2, deuce2, Sidi and TonyCoxon, unbeliever, Morlader, Ken :tear: 20 years but who’s counting?..................
Posts: 4292 | From: Looking for more trouble to get into | Registered: May 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I don't know that you can make it a Christian funeral though.
If you're a Christian, then it IS a "Christian funeral", I would have thought.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
As an Eccles answer rather than Purg, I used these lightly adapted CofE prayers on the towpath as we sent our beloved dog Hazel's ashes off in a candle-lit paper boat down the river where she used to run. Heresy carefully avoided, I think.
quote:
God of mercy,
as we mourn Hazel's death and commend her to your care,
we thank you for her life and all that she meant to each of us,
For the 14 years she shared with us,
the good we saw in her,
the love we received from her.
[... shared memories ... ]
Now give us strength and courage
to commit her to your care.
We make our prayer
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen.
O God, who brought us all to birth,
and in whose arms we all die,
in our grief and shock
contain and comfort us;
embrace us with your love,
give us hope in our confusion
and grace to let go into new life;
through Jesus Christ.
Amen.
Q.
(Welling up again even after 10 years)
Damn you! Now you've got me started again.
That's brilliant - just brilliant!
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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JH
Apprentice
# 17310
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Posted
As Martin Luther once said:
"Be thou comforted, little dog, Thou too in Resurrection shall have a little golden tail"
Posts: 4 | Registered: Sep 2012
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Thank you fiends for your compassion on the death of our beloved Toby. The vet rang yesterday to say that Toby's ashes are ready and we have now brought him home. I'm feeling that we might have a modified service of Christian burial, with the grandchildren free to add whatever they wish. After all, Toby when he died was older than any of them and they had known him all their lives.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Eek, I meant to write friends not fiends. How embarrassing!
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I don't know that you can make it a Christian funeral though.
Sure, go ahead and tell kids that the dog they loved isn't worthy of Christian burial. Might as well put them off Christianity as early as possible, get it over with.
And if it be the case that a dog has no soul why should they not learn that in a gentle way now?
The sort of prayer Qoheleth. sets out is exactly what can be done without venturing into possible heresy - thanks for the dog's life and seeking comfort for those who remain.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
There is a children's book called The Tenth Good Thing About Barney which (I think) may be by Judith Viorst. Barney, the narrator's dog has died and one of his parents suggests he thinks up ten good things to say about Barney at his burial.
I like that idea and maybe it would lead to less emphasis about where the dog is going.
I vaguely remember reading a book by an English Rabbi where he said he thought animals go to Heaven, but it was so long ago I can't remember who it was. I remember thinking that might even be a good enough reason to convert.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
If they live in our memories, will they not live in our resurrected memories (if we have any?)
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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leftfieldlover
Shipmate
# 13467
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Posted
When our 18-year old cat China had to be put down a few years ago, my younger son and I sat outside with him the night before, and drank champagne and celebrated his life. When elder son was next home (he was China's favourite human) he went into the garden, alone, and sprinkled China's ashes in the area which he particularly enjoyed sleeping in near to the catnip bush. Several weeks later we received a 'sympathy' card from the Vet.
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I can gauge your mood from your approach to food.
Posts: 164 | From: oxford | Registered: Feb 2008
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Qoheleth's adapted prayers are wonderful. I would also add verses 5-9 of Psalm 36 which I used the last time I officiated at one of these (my own cat, E. much mourned and missed).
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
How do we know that we are the only beings on this planet with souls?
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
How do we know that we are the only beings on this planet with souls?
What exactly IS a soul? And more importantly, do you have to have one to be in heaven?
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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PaulBC
Shipmate
# 13712
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Posted
I don't think I would want a hereafter without all the pets I have known, starting with a certain spaiel who guarded my pram in North Wales and ending with a Bichon 2 decades ago. Our animal frienmds exude the purest form of love, that Bichon we had used to sit at the top of the stairs waiting for me to come up for breakfast.
As for CS Lewis just look at all the animals in the Narnia series that are at the resurrection after the Last Battle. Further up & higher in .
Bib tell the grandchildren that what they feel for the passed pet is good and right. And give them a BIG hug. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
PaulBC: I don't think I would want a hereafter without all the pets I have known
Just make sure you clean up after them
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
If pets do end up in the resurrection with resurrection bodies, won't they also be housetrained?
I'm not as convinced about this as everyone else seems to be, and I'm also not convinced it matters that much. However, if pets were to have eternal life, wouldn't it be so that they could enjoy it, not so that they could be there so as to make us happy?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
First of all your imaginations are too small. There is a radical break between this creation and the next creation. However it is a continuation and I do not think it will be less rich and it is the transformation of the whole of creation not just humans.
I am sorry but it is not just pets and I suspect that the way we will "see" all animals will be richer as well. I happen to believe we are with respect to this creation have time limits, the next must, therefore, have more dimensions.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I've been holding back a bit from this thread for fear of offending anyone, but I think Jengie jon makes a good point. We can't conceptualise what Heaven will be like. We can't begin to know in any meaningful way what it would be like to be in the presence of the Godhead. An analogy I have heard used is that of a caterpillar trying to imagine what it must be like to be a butterfly.
I'm an animal lover, and it is clear that all animals are part of redeemed Creation, but I think that wondering whether I will get my lovely and late-lamented cat back is kind of missing the point. Like the Sadducees who asked our Lord to whom the woman with seven husbands would be wed in the Resurrection, the only answer that really makes sense is, effectively, 'don't worry about that, your Father has it sorted'.
So another vote here for providing a time of reflection and thanksgiving.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I don't know any Biblical basis for asserting "animals don't go to heaven." The Bible tells us what we need to know for us, and we have plenty of trouble with that, no wonder it doesn't venture off into discussing life on other planets or the eternal fate of animals.
But the rainbow promise was addressed to the animals too, not just to us, everything that breathes is invited to praise God, we see beasts in some visions, why those beasts and not also ours?
I probably wouldn't declare "promise of resurrection" - we aren't specifically told either way (even though I assume some variation of that), but I boldly would declare "held in God's love."
If the whole world will be renewed, or a new heaven and earth, why would the new one be barren of animals when the old one flourished with animals first, before humans were invented?
I've often wondered, if we are the bride, who are the wedding guests? Maybe the animals?
Do the funeral. Rituals help the living, the dead are already with God.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Devils Advocate
Shipmate
# 16484
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Posted
As it says in The Book of Genesis, God created them and in my opinion, if he created them, then there must be room for them in heaven.I lost my very elderly Cairn Terrier Spike 18 months ago, and when the vet returned his ashes ( They also sent me a Sympathy Card) I took them back to Sheffield where he'd spent most of his life with me, and scattered them at the top of a hill where we used to walk together. There was a Thunderstorm brewing, and as I scattered his ashes there was a very loud clap of thunder! All I could say was, that knowing my late pets temperament, he had bitten God!
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"Oh I have wrought much evil with my spells"
Posts: 97 | From: Lincs | Registered: Jun 2011
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