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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Pope at Madison Square Garden
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
View here. You can advance to about 14:00 to skip the entrance via golf cart.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
That was my hope. What do people think about the mass: liturgy, vestments, music, attention to detail, etc.?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Who were the guys in black hoods texting behind the female singer ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Why are the Pope and at least one other priest/bishop near him in green chasubles, but the many priests sitting behind them in white chasubles?
Posts: 1537 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
Great to hear the Pontifical Mass starting off with a good Anglican hymn (OK, it is based on the prayer by Francis of Assisi)!
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
What a nasty shade of green.
And it clashes with everyone else's
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
I like it. So far, I have only had time to watch it selectively and I will be coming back to it to watch it more completely.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
Why are the Pope and at least one other priest/bishop near him in green chasubles, but the many priests sitting behind them in white chasubles?
It's ordinary time, hence the colour is green for the celebrants. The priests in white are not celebrating the Mass, but may be involved in the distribution of Communion.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Does HH take his own vestments with him when he goes a-visiting? That may explain the slight mismatch between his chasuble and the vestments of the deacon and (presumably) sub-deacon.
*tangent alert*
By far the best moment of his US trip so far (well, that I've come across, anyhoo) was him getting out of his car to bless a disabled laddie and his family. Nice one, Papa!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
Pope Benedict XVI started taking his own vestments after an Australian World Youth Day appearance which saw him in ... sky blue accented with pale yellow ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Most visiting priests bring their own vestments. They fit, after all.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
The guys in the black hoods look to me like Armenian clerics, who may be Orthodox or Catholic
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
I was wondering about them -- the Pope gives them a liturgical embrace at the end of mass (1:42:52) and they appear to kiss his ring.
I was also wondering who the bishop in the gold crown was (15:20). I thought perhaps the Metropolitan of the Russian Catholic Church, but I don't know.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
If they kissed his ring they are Eastern Catholics in communion with the Holy See. Perhaps. If the embrace was at the end of the Mass rather than at the Peace, perhaps not.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
I have an LP of Elvis at Madison Square Garden...
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
All the outstretched arms made it look like a Nazi rally or a Benny Hinn miracle service.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
I haven't liked watching the bodyguards shove people out of the way as the pope walked down the aisle; he's not a rock star.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
At communion, some of the eucharistic ministers had rather burly looking attendants with them in Franciscan garb -- look, for example, at 1:24:24. I wondered about them -- were they Secret Service in drag?
On the positive side, I thought the music was wonderful -- certainly a far cry from what you usually get at a Catholic mass. The Proulx Sanctus was a special treat, as was "Alleluia! Sing to Jesus" to Hyfrydol. And I liked the eucharistic prayer in Latin.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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ldjjd
Shipmate
# 17390
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Posted
I think that they could have done without a cantor.
Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2012
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Well, at least the cantors at all the Papal masses over the past few days could actually sing. I've heard some in my time that desperately require a vocal fold transplant.
The cantor, or leader of song, has been deeply ingrained in Catholic worship ever since the days of Vatican II. I don't like it either.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Re security - I suppose they do have to take extra precautions, given the risk of someone taking a potshot at HH (remember the attempt to kill JP2?). Pope Francis seems to take it all in his stride......even if he did appear to need some help getting up the steps to the altar.
Re cantor - not, perhaps, the Bestest In All The World, but the music was (overall) Good, if not quite up to Anglican Cathedral standard.... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
......a perhaps regrettable fact of modern life, though, in the number of people waving their mobile phones on high to take a photo. This happens at Baptisms at Our Place, but although part of me wishes they'd concentrate on what's going on at the Font, another part realises that the photographers may well recall in the future how friendly and welcoming Our Place was.....
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
Though not the same thing, one can compare and contrast the entrance of the Queen to a service of worship here in the UK.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
I am wondering who the deacon, who read the gospel was and I am thinking it might be Revd. Jack Sullivan, who performed the same role in the same capacity at the Beatification Mass for John Henry Newman at Cofton Park, Birmingham by Pope Benedict XVI on his visit to England five years ago. Can any shipmate confirm that? If they are not one and the same deacon, then they look alike.
The choice of the said permanent deacon five years ago, was significant, because when Jack Sullivan's pre-diaconate formation was thwarted due to a spinal disorder, he prayed to John Henry Newman for a miraculous cure. The desired cure happened, enabling his ordination to go ahead. That was the miracle needed so that Newman's beatification could go ahead, as well.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
Why are the Pope and at least one other priest/bishop near him in green chasubles, but the many priests sitting behind them in white chasubles?
I'm guessing they didn't have enough matching green ones. The ones in white chasubles are definitely concelebrating (there is no other reason -- other than on Good Friday -- to wear a chasuble). Most big occasion Masses, where you need to have many matching outfits for concelebrants, are white, so it wouldn't surprise me if they had enough white chasubles, but not green ones.
I am accustomed to the principal celebrant wearing a different vestment than the concelebrants. I don't see that as "clashing" necessarily.
As for bringing one's own vestments: I'd very much doubt that that would be allowed at something like this. Albs (+ cinctures / amices), maybe, but not the 'external vestments' (chasuble, mitre, etc.). At our basilica, all concelebrants wear matching stoles and chasubles which we provide. We also provide albs for everyone, but there'd be no complaint if someone brought his own. Bringing your own vestments to concelebrate would be common in a circumstance like showing up to a regular parish church to concelebrate a friend's funeral, but not in an event like this.
I do know of 'event Masses' where they expect concelebrants, but don't have the resources to provide vesture for everyone. Invites for these normally say "bring alb and stole." Papal Masses do not fall into this category!
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops finger:
...the vestments of the deacon and (presumably) sub-deacon.
There's no such thing as a sub-deacon (in the OF of the Roman Rite). At big Masses, with many deacons available, I'm used to the deacon part being divided between at least two: a deacon of the Word and deacon of the Eucharist. At the chrism Mass in our diocese, they'll divide things between as many transitional deacons as there are. There were three of us my year, so I was deacon of the Cup, and there was a deacon of the Word and the deacon of the incense.
Here's a review from a priest who has there. And here's the worship aid.
A few things I wondered about. Given the presence of so many deacons, it's technically irregular to have lay people announce the petitions for the prayers of the faithful. Of course, the Pope has the right to waive that, but it does make it an interesting choice to 'show-case' diversity (linguistic as well) at that moment of the Mass.
The opening hymn is a classic. You need a lot of verses to get Pope + entourage in, and the Franciscan text is obviously appropriate. I wonder why some verses were in European Spanish, rather than an American dialect of Spanish.
The choice of propers (including readings) was one of the Masses for Peace and Justice, rather than the Mass of the Day. These are the readings he passed up. This certainly fits the motive of the Pope's pastoral visit.
The recognition of those who constructed the chair, altar and linens is a very nice touch. They truly seem to reflect the unfussy noble simplicity that Francis cares about, and the concern about the people who constructed them is important.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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american piskie
Shipmate
# 593
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Though not the same thing, one can compare and contrast the entrance of the Queen to a service of worship here in the UK.
Do you mean when all the little boys shout "Vivat! Vivat!"?
Posts: 356 | From: Oxford, England, UK | Registered: Jun 2001
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
But surely the Queen in the UK and the pope,wherever he is, have quite different roles.
Not that one is better or worse than the other.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I am wondering who the deacon, who read the gospel was and I am thinking it might be Revd. Jack Sullivan, who performed the same role in the same capacity at the Beatification Mass for John Henry Newman at Cofton Park, Birmingham by Pope Benedict XVI on his visit to England five years ago.
I don't think so. The worship aid lists the following deacons:
Deacon James Bello, Archdiocese of New York
Deacon Joachin Pereira, Archdiocese of New York
Deacon James Murphy, Diocese of Rockville Centre
Deacon Jaime Varela, Diocese of Brooklyn
I couldn't find anywhere that identified who did what.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by american piskie:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Though not the same thing, one can compare and contrast the entrance of the Queen to a service of worship here in the UK.
Do you mean when all the little boys shout "Vivat! Vivat!"?
Erm... you mean
This? Watch from 4.05
Hardly the same as a crowd of people struggling to grab the Pope as he processes by.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
Here's a review from a priest who has there.
Sign him up to be a Mystery Worshipper. ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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PaulBC
Shipmate
# 13712
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Posted
I wat6ched a fair bit of the Papal visit and I'm im[ressed The Pope was nt a remote fiquire but
a man like the restof us>He's more alike John XXIII than JPII or Benedict XVI.
And his message was get into the places where people need to hear the Gospel, applicable to both RC & Anglicans , not to mention everyone else. Also don't be dogmatic abou being the only way to God.
![[Smile]](smile.gif) ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
BTW the person who read the lesson from Isaiah in Spanish was Mo Rocca, a minor TV personality.
He's a regular panelist on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" on National Public Radio as well.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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american piskie
Shipmate
# 593
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
But surely the Queen in the UK and the pope,wherever he is, have quite different roles.
Not that one is better or worse than the other.
I thought I heard the Holy Father being introduced to the US Congress as "The Pope of the Holy See". I took this to signify that he was there in his capacity as a Head of State and not as Bishop of Rome.
Of course I agree that at a church service their roles are different; and I began to wonder whether there were occasions when the Queen's presence was (as it were) liturgically necessary. All I could think of were (a) the Coronation Service, where there's an almost Byzantine fusion of the lay and clerical; (b) the annual presentation of Gold Frankincense and Myrrh at the Epiphany --- but this is done by proxy nowadays, so I don't know if that counts; (c) the annual Maundy service --- but I'm not sure whether the Royal Almoner doesn't actually do the donkey work.
In both (a) and (c) there is in practice hysterical adulation as she arrives, and in (a) it is also built into the service.
Posts: 356 | From: Oxford, England, UK | Registered: Jun 2001
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by american piskie:
In both (a) and (c) there is in practice hysterical adulation as she arrives, and in (a) it is also built into the service.
Where exactly was/is this 'hysterical' adulation?
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
If we want to move the conversation on to Philly, here's some commentary and the worship aid.
To pick up on an earlier point, having seen facebook photos by some priest friends who were concelebrating, it seems that 'rank and file' priests were told to bring their own alb and white stole, while the invited concelebrants were given matching green vestments. Given that every priest will have his own green stole, I wonder if this is a conscious decision to make the 'background' priests less eye-catching by having them in all white.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I am wondering who the deacon, who read the gospel was and I am thinking it might be Revd. Jack Sullivan, who performed the same role in the same capacity at the Beatification Mass for John Henry Newman at Cofton Park, Birmingham by Pope Benedict XVI on his visit to England five years ago.
I don't think so. The worship aid lists the following deacons:
Deacon James Bello, Archdiocese of New York
Deacon Joachin Pereira, Archdiocese of New York
Deacon James Murphy, Diocese of Rockville Centre
Deacon Jaime Varela, Diocese of Brooklyn
I couldn't find anywhere that identified who did what.
Thanks; I stand to be corrected. A cast list was something that eluded me.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
The one negative for me was the sight of bully boys in shirt sleeves throwing their weight around. I know security is necessary, but these guys looked like bouncers such as one might see outside a night club. The very pleasing aspect for me was the very perceptive and yet unobtrusive priest who stood and the Pope's side and assisted him very gently with an arm or a word as required. Also, I actually quite liked the lady leading the singing as she gave a very good lead to the assembled masses, which would not be an easy task. Altogether it was a worthwhile celebration, although I couldn't uderstand much of what wasn't in English (that's when we need subtitles).
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I'm reminded of the Parish Mass I attended many years ago in a small seaside town in Croatia (part of Jugoslavia then).
The church was well-filled with locals and visitors, but the altar party consisted of just the priest and one server.....plus a dozen rather scary black-suited men in dark glasses (!) ranged around the apse.... ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
This was post-Tito and just pre-civil war, so I can only assume that they were secret police (or something) working a bit of overtime......
IIRC, they didn't exchange the Peace with anyone...
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
The very pleasing aspect for me was the very perceptive and yet unobtrusive priest who stood and the Pope's side and assisted him very gently with an arm or a word as required.
That would be the Revd Msgr Guido Marini, master of apostolic ceremonies, who has to have the best job in the world! ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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american piskie
Shipmate
# 593
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Originally posted by american piskie:
In both (a) and (c) there is in practice hysterical adulation as she arrives, and in (a) it is also built into the service.
Where exactly was/is this 'hysterical' adulation?
Westminster Abbey?
Posts: 356 | From: Oxford, England, UK | Registered: Jun 2001
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Ummm
American Piskie -- I think you are confusing what happens once in a King/Queen's life, at his/her coronation, with something that happens at any other time in any other circumstance.
In the days before reform, a papal coronation included a hooded monastic appearing before the Pope's carrying chair with a length of burning rope -- possibly saying something but in any case signifying that worldly splendour is as dust and ashes. The popes of the day would not have expected to meet cowled monastics with burning ropes at any other time.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
In the days before reform, a papal coronation included a hooded monastic appearing before the Pope's carrying chair with a length of burning rope -- possibly saying something but in any case signifying that worldly splendour is as dust and ashes. The popes of the day would not have expected to meet cowled monastics with burning ropes at any other time.
The phrase uttered with the burning was "Sic transit Gloria mundi," which means "Thus passes the glory of the world."
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Anglicano
Shipmate
# 18476
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Posted
I quite like Pope Francis. Certainly he's an improvement on his two immediate predecessors. But speeches at these big gatherings are liable to be a bit platitudinous. The Labour Party's Conference in Brighton is similar: all in favour of good, kindness, compassion, etc. And not even Benedict XVI or JP2 would have had the nerve to get up at a public rally in the UK or USA and attack gays, contraception, women's rights, divorce, or, for that matter Protestantism
Posts: 61 | From: Cheshire, England | Registered: Sep 2015
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american piskie
Shipmate
# 593
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
Ummm
American Piskie -- I think you are confusing what happens once in a King/Queen's life, at his/her coronation, with something that happens at any other time in any other circumstance.
[del]
John
In a confused (and not clearly thought out) way I was trying to point out that the Queen, no less than the Pope, is given the rock-star treatment when she appears, even if she's going to church: we are usually treated by the BBC to a view of the annual over-excited crowds at Crathie, Sandringham, Windsor. It is just not fair to criticise the reception of the Pope with an implied "how unlike the home life of our own dear Queen." Even more confusingly I was trying to say that in the Queen's case it is even worse, since at the coronation the adulation is built into the service, with the cries of "vivat!" Unlike the papal coronation there is no balancing "sic transit.." moment. (Or moments: wasn't it done three times? I seem to remember that happening in 1963.)
Posts: 356 | From: Oxford, England, UK | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
Your memory serves you well, American Piskie. The sic transit was indeed said three times at the papal coronation.
I find it odd here, to read how some, when speaking of papal "styles" (for lack of a better term), speak of Pope Francis and St. John XXIII as being a certain way, and St. John Paul II and Pope Emeritus Benedict as being a different way. Francis, John and John Paul were all cut from the same extroverted cloth. Benedict, on the other hand, is an introvert. The first three loved crowds and were loved back by them. John Paul invented the concept of the papal trip, which is now the norm. Having a very long pontificate, he visited nearly every country on earth. He joked from the first moment that he appeared on the balcony of St. Peter's, mentioning that Italian was not his native language. JP2 created World Youth Day, and was the first "rock star pope." John, JP2 and Francis all spoke off the cuff remarks whenever they could. Benedict, OTOH, rarely did. This notion of Francis being so different from Benedict AND John Paul is difficult to stomach.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
I'm wondering whether the person who asked about the unobtrusive priest who accompanied Pope Francis on his trip to the USA was not asking about Mgr Guido Marini,tall rather than small, and the papal Master of Ceremonies.
Mgr Marini was the Master of Papal Ceremonies for Benedict XVI. He was /is a person who values the traditions of papal ceremonies.It was assumed that Francis,who seeks always a simpler form of ceremonies would dispense with his services.
Francis kept him on, hoping to introduce him to this much simpler form of papal ceremonies.
I think,however, that bib was perhaps asking about the small, rather than tall, unobtrusive priest who was always beside the pope,translating ,where needed,from Spanish into English. He was Mgr Mark Miles,born in Gibraltar,and as such fluent in both (Castilian)Spanish and (British) English.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
Far more interesting to me, than all this tattery, is the fact that he chose, as his presidential chair, some woodwork made by prisoners and that he visited the prison afterwards.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by american piskie:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Originally posted by american piskie:
In both (a) and (c) there is in practice hysterical adulation as she arrives, and in (a) it is also built into the service.
Where exactly was/is this 'hysterical' adulation?
Westminster Abbey?
The words 'Vivat Regina Elizabetha' are chanted by teenaged boys, or just the boys of the choir, and are part of Parry's 'I Was Glad' - one of the most glorious pieces of music written for the English church.
I would hardly call it adulation and I would certainly not call it hysterical.
What you do not get, as the Queen processes down the aisle on Westminster Abbey, St Paul's Cathedral or indeed Crathie Church, is hordes of people hanging over the edge of the pews with their phones, or trying to grab her designer frock!
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Mudfrog --
A friend of mine was one of the boys in the Abbey choir just after the coronation, and he assured me that the Vivats were indeed shouted by (some of) the boys of Westminster School, to whom that role belongs. I suppose they must have been coached as to when and how to shout, and perhaps they did so in a way that worked with the music.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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