Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
nail ninety-five faeces to a church door

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Condemn as American culture taking over the rest of us?

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
nail ninety-five faeces to a church door

---

You'll need some tough shit...

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:
When I was a child in America in the 1940s, children went out trick-or-treating without their parents. If they weren't old enough to go alone or with older children (about age 7) they didn't go.

...

The treats we were given in those days were very modest--popcorn, peanuts, penny candy, marshmallows. These were frequently unwrapped, and we ended up with salt on the marshmallows and powdered sugar on the popcorn. This was part of the fun.

I don't like the way Halloween is done nowadays. There is too much adult involvement.

Moo

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
nail ninety-five faeces to a church door

---

You'll need some tough shit...

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think this year Halloween in the US is going to be an absolute rip roaring blow out, as a catharsis to the creeping approach of the election.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

Who was it who said that there's no harm in telling kidz about witches and demons, as long as they're also told that witches and demons can be defeated (or words to that effect)?

Ian J.

---

Posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hilda of Whitby:
I was a child in the early to mid 1960s in the US , and children went out trick or treating alone or with siblings/friends. We got store-bought candy mostly, along with little boxes of raisins and every so often apples. Once the "razor blades are hidden in the popcorn balls/apples/raisin boxes!" rumors began, that was the end of healthier treats.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Freddy:
But now of course there are granola bars.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Freddy:
There are very few holidays or activities that involve safely entering every house in the neighborhood in large groups. I can't imagine a better way to do it.

---

Posted                          

quote:

---

Originally posted by Freddy:
But now of course there are granola bars.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firenze:
You can rename it, Christianise it, commercialise it, ignore it - but you cannot get rid of the thing itself. You cannot get rid of the smell of the first frost, the white sickle moon in the evening, the dance of the sparks against the darkness: you cannot see the year dying in the drifts of leaves and the bare fields and not think Thou mays't in me that time of year behold...

In short, I think we are hardwired for elegiac musings and a desire to light large fires and dance round them.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Not that I'm an expert, but I've only ever heard of it being sponsored by schools or churches in metro or suburban areas. The rationale behind it appears to be wholly "keep your children safe," which is IMHO ridiculous (I'm not seeing this in the inner city slums, where it might be some use).

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firenze:
And given Frankie Boyle described one of the candidates, not unfairly I feel, as 'a shrieking pumpkin' I feel the Samhain fires are needed more than usual.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I've always understood Halloween as a Christian festive evening before the celebration of All Saints where the devil and all his minions are mocked. I can't quite get my head around why Christians can't reclaim it in this sense but instead attempt the impossible task of pretending its not there.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Have you liturgically-inclined Shipmates noticed how these 'folk' religion 'festivals' have their proper colours?

Halloween is orange/black, Christmas/Winterfest is red/green (though blue*/white lights on houses seem popular round here during Advent)

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I've always understood Hallowe'en as a day of fun for children (of all ages) that is loosely based on a pagan festival that Christians co-opted to convert said pagans and now that it has a life of its own, however innocent, grumpy Christians want to subvert it.

"Bad children, corpses are not fun! Unless they are nailed to a stick..."

---

(Sorry, Jesus.)

See, early Christians had the right idea- you collect holidays, you don't forbid them.
As for the idea that grownups can't dress up-- nonsense. I suppose grownups can't do the hokey- pokey or ride a Ferris wheel either.

What grownups can't do is show up at people's houses with an empty pillowcase and a menacing smile. I'm looking at you, clowns.

[ 14. October 2016, 16:00: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mudfrog:
I think the obvious answer is that Hallowe'en is not the American treat or treat stuff e]with pumpkins but is in it's r]traditional form a pagan festival that pagans d still actually celebrate. It's for that reason that many Christians steer clear of it.

---

quote:

---

It's the reason the Church Christianised the event into a remembrance of the departed rather than a ritual of the dead.

---

quote:

---

Maybe we should spend more time with the Christian festival than the 'Disney' version of pagan ritual.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mudfrog:
I think the obvious answer is that Hallowe'en is not the American treat or treat stuff e]with pumpkins but is in it's r]traditional form a pagan festival that pagans d still actually celebrate. It's for that reason that many Christians steer clear of it.

---

Rubbish. Children are not doing any of the pagan things, they are doing the fun things.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

Who was it who said that there's no harm in telling kidz about witches and demons, as long as they're also told that witches and demons can be defeated (or words to that effect)?

Ian J.

---

How about a simple, "They are not real, this is just for fun"? Or reality to that effect?

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by angelfish:
My kids' Sunday School teacher told them that "Halloween is bad, because it celebrates evil, and evil is bad m'kay". I was delighted when my son reported this to me, and then said "but that's rubbish - Jesus defeated evil, so we are allowed to make fun of it".

I don't like children demanding sweets with menaces (in a town where many children are so entitled it makes your head spin), so we go door to door "have-a-treating" - where you give sweets/homemade biscuits that look a bit like vampires to your neighbours (and of course, they all have a little treat to give back in return).


What I dislike about Halloween is the cost of it - either in money when you have to purchase a costume for each child, or in brain-ache as I try to think of a creative way to turn my children into dragons/zombies/knights templar with things we have lying around the house.

---

Yay, fish son!

Oh, and definitely, Real Halloween to me is making your own costume, out of stuff at home or thrift store finds. Not that I blame anyone who succumbs to a six year old begging for the rubber Batman ears,

And I LOVE the have a treat idea-- that's the way you "Christianize" it!

[ 14. October 2016, 20:49: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gramps49:
While some some people recall trick or treating in the 40's, it did not become a universal tradition in the United States until the 1950's.

---

That's right. At the old people's home they always tell me that in the 20s, 30's and 40's Halloween was very different than what it turned into in the 1950's. In the old days in our neck of the woods (outside Philadelphia) it was a not-so-pleasant night of destructive mischief and harassing homeowners.

As a child of the 1950s I am happy to have only experienced the Disney version.

--------------------
"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mudfrog:
I said that it was because Hallowe'en in its original form is still observed by Pagans with Pagan rites, that we should avoid it.

The other stuff is an American gloss - a bit like Christmas, which many people celebrate with the trappings without actually celebrating Christmas.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Freddy:
At the old people's home they always tell me that in the 20s, 30's and 40's Halloween was very different than what it turned into in the 1950's. In the old days in our neck of the woods (outside Philadelphia) it was a not-so-pleasant night of destructive mischief and harassing homeowners.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Halloween’s origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31 they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Freddy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gramps49:
While some some people recall trick or treating in the 40's, it did not become a universal tradition in the United States until the 1950's.

---

That's right. At the old people's home they always tell me that in the 20s, 30's and 40's Halloween was very different than what it turned into in the 1950's. In the old days in our neck of the woods (outside Philadelphia) it was a not-so-pleasant night of destructive mischief and harassing homeowners.

---